Well I do not think anyone that can will answer this question but for the sake of the conversation and having fun I will join in
I like to think that some very wealthy EQ fans have fully funded the game and our donations are just a cherry on top. But that is likely wishful thinking and I also am happy to see a somewhat constant flow of new members. I am guessing though more would be better.
I also wonder for the sake of wondering how many members are needed to sustain a game like this and not only exist but grow.
But why we are asking questions we will likely never get the answer too I would like to know if the writers of the last season of Game of Thrones liked it or not.
Op - From what I’ve read during development, funding has been going well. Not many people knew about Pantheon back in 2014 during the KS, but oh boy has that changed since. :) As you mention, many people are returning here daily as more and more hear about it. It’s quite exciting to see!
I like your profile pic.
Ranarius said:Keno Monster said:"We are funded through launch."
I'm assuming that's a quote from a video I haven't seen yet? I've read a ton, but I've only been here a few days now so I've got a lot of catching up to do haha.
It was from a Facebook reply, from like 2018.
Yes the "Funded Through Launch" quote has been around a while, it was from a reliable source, and I would never be able to find it for you, but I recall them saying it.
Like others I assume this is from (and I'll give you another quote from a reliable source that I won't be able to supply.) "Angel Investors"
Ranarius said:I'm assuming that's a quote from a video I haven't seen yet? I've read a ton, but I've only been here a few days now so I've got a lot of catching up to do haha.
It was posted here a while back. They have enough money to launch the game. More money will make it happen faster. But that was made before PF if I remember correctly. I don't know how that works out now.
Based on everything I've looked at for MMO design, at the stage they are in the main driver of cost at this point is art/world building. We've seen that programming is coming along nicely and seems to be nearing a point where you can start talking about when they will be "feature complete", eat least for launch. But building zones and all the art around that and character items, mobs, etc is always super expensive and takes a long time.
To add - More pledges do not hurt ofc. =) I have kicked around some pledges since KS and have asked some old RL acquaintances to pledge. The momentum is truly awesome, and it continues to grow.
They've been funded for launch for a while now but to me that doesn't mean a whole lot. They obvious don't have (and will never have) a 200 man department to crank this game out, but they were going strong with only a handful of people. With some semi-recent pledges in the last two (?) years, they've been able to add people to the team.
Not sure on what the number is right now, but they said in a recent Cohh stream that they are bringing on more people as the funding justifies it. They also said that is one of the big drivers in not having solid dates for alpha/beta etc. Because they simply don't know what future funding is going to look like, they won't know how many people they'll have, which is the biggest variable to determine milestone dates.
I am glad this is not a 200 man/woman department tbh, and the Visionary Realms team is nothing short of amazing. To heck with Acti Blizzard/WoW.
Zorkon said:Yes the "Funded Through Launch" quote has been around a while, it was from a reliable source, and I would never be able to find it for you, but I recall them saying it.
Like others I assume this is from (and I'll give you another quote from a reliable source that I won't be able to supply.) "Angel Investors"
"Funded through launch" is a pretty bad misquotation as it's kinda misleading and doesn't adequately explain the whole situation. The original quote is from Producer Ben Dean who is indeed a very reliable source, but here's exactly what he said in a reply to a Facebook comment last year:
"Funding isn't a problem, no. We have a set pace and current funding has allowed us to build the game to this point and can be continued through to launch. But, if we can speed the funding along periodically it allos us to speed along development, bringing us to alpha, beta, and launch much sooner than would otherwise be possible. The cadence at which we are funded will get us to launch, yes. That does not mean a speedy development though. We have made a lot of progress since we have started and the pace has increased as the pledges and investments have increased."
This means that with the current pace of funding, they are able to pace themselves to ensure that they will reach launch day... at some point. This is why crowdfunded MMO development is so vastly different from MMO development that most people are used to. If VR had a publisher give them a chunk of cash on day 1, they could lay out a pretty solid road map because they'd know exactly how much money they'd have along the way. But with crowdfunding, there's a lot more variables. For example, if they unexpectedly pick up a big investor along the way or have a surge of pledges, that can pretty dramatically change the trajectory. And that's part of why it's hard for them to make predictions. So anyway, even though they will never publicly disclose exactly how much funding they have, I would agree that it does seem like it's going well enough. Which is why I always say the question isn't IF Pantheon will release, it's WHEN. As of the time of that quote, it seemed like the pace of funding at the time still made for a progress rate that probably wouldn't be satisfactory for most people. So if you're impatient and really want it sooner than later, it seems like pledging is what will make the difference... More money = more devs = more progress. And I'd even say that more progress = more investor confidence = more money = more devs = more progress. And so the cycle is perpetuated. That's how the momentum factor very well could play a part in helping the game come together a lot faster.
Thanks for the detailed response.
Launch was originally planned for 2017, with proper funding.
Since then, apparently, (I've never seen a public linkable source for this funded through launch quote) they claim to have "enough" money, whatever that means. (wages? capex? opex? debt servicing?)
The logical problems are: if you have enough money to fund you through a date, you have a date. If you don't have a date, but claim you don't have money, you're just estimating, and in VR's case, every estimate they've made has been poor, to put it mildly. Any claims to either a date or funding without numbers are just vague platitudes meant to assuage the zealot whales, imo.
At this point, with any significant persistent access (pre-alpha, alpha, beta, launch, anything) being years away, there is, apparently, absolutely no pressure on the devs to produce anything. This, again, imo, is the entire problem with non-publisher development.
No timelines. No deadlines. No milestones releasing funds. It's the entire reason this endeavor has taken twice as long as it took to make EQ1. (6 years instead of 3), and has no persistent access. Sure, go ahead and try to retcon history, doesn't make it any less true, as of Feb 22, 2020. :)
vjek said:there is, apparently, absolutely no pressure on the devs to produce anything. This, again, imo, is the entire problem with non-publisher development.
Yeah, this is my thought and fear exactly. I imagine being on the development team thinking "this is cool, I get to get paid to create a game I also enjoy playing, and there is absolutely no deadline. As long as people keep backing this project I have a job that I enjoy...I sure hope they keep backing it!"
So, I guess the pressure is to keep people backing the game. They've managed to keep people interested for 6 years, how much longer will people continue backing this without major checkpoints being hit? I guess time will tell.
I agree with the sentiments expressed by Vjek and I mostly mirror them. If you can say you are "funded to launch" based on a given rate of progress, logically you can say you have a specific date and other milestones in mind, but they choose not to anyway. You cannot just work indefinitely with X amount of money, because costs continue to accumulate, so quite frankly unless they have a patron who is funding the project with an open ended continuous amount...who knows. Honestly, the statement of funding to launch does not really mean a whole lot, I mean Enron was stating it was profitable until one day it was not...regardless we are all hoping it comes true. We ALL want to see this game released. Regardless, they are going to lock/edit/delete this thread in a bit anyway I am sure.