I'm extremely concerned and disapointed with the new UI direction.
So much UI clutter, seriously i have no idea why you changed the health bars, the old ones where already too overpwoering compared to the world and gameplay and took way to much screen space, but now, every single mob and player gets a huge health bar above its name and the screen is filled with it, its literaly the only relevant thing on screen...... Again so much excesive screen clutter, the gameplay and visual should be able to convey whats going on......
I made a post a while back going into detail of what a good UI is " https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5218/user-interface-restrictions " and pantheon was going in the right direction until now, this is absolutly awful.
Seems clean to me. Already minimalized. Some people want it to be fancier. Is ui modification going to be a thing the community is involved in here?
Turning Off =/= Removing, If i turn the healthbars off to make the game more engaging, I will be handycaping myself, I will have less information, I will play in a sub optimal way and will reduce the groups effectiveness, in a group game the path of least resistance is present in everything the playerbase does, in the best leveling routes, the best gear, the best abilities to use etc, and the combat UI is also part of the rule, players will use what's best and what make them succeed, if that implies having the screen filled with clutter to manage multiple mobs encounters than that's what everyone will do to avoid failiure, specially in a game where theres a death penalty.
jpedrote said:I'm extremely concerned and disapointed with the new UI direction.
So much UI clutter, seriously i have no idea why you changed the health bars, the old ones where already too overpwoering compared to the world and gameplay and took way to much screen space, but now, every single mob and player gets a huge health bar above its name and the screen is filled with it, its literaly the only relevant thing on screen...... Again so much excesive screen clutter, the gameplay and visual should be able to convey whats going on......
I made a post a while back going into detail of what a good UI is " https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5218/user-interface-restrictions " and pantheon was going in the right direction until now, this is absolutly awful.
Well a long time ago the Devs said they were fine with Addons that changed the way the UI and such things that work for as long they don't directly affect the way you can play the game, so if you don't like it, which most people don't normally like the orgiinal ui of any mmorpg you can simply wit for a ui to be made for the game and use that one.
Read your post that you linked to. Many people disagreed with you then and raised great points, and it appears they still do. I understand what your saying but is this really immersion breaking or give you a leg up? Im not so sure, and ill likely have it off. Im so used to manually cycling that I cannot imagine anything more efficient. As for the health bars/target window this is just a matter of skinning as mentioned in other posts.
That said I dont like the business of the bars either, but I dont agree that no one should have the option.
In terms of clutter, if they open up the hotbars that would definitely be cluttered.
Joppa commented on the limited action set and opening that up. Can't you just have a bar for abilities/spells and another bar for macros/items rather than unlimited bars?
I don't see the need to allow multiple ability bars for "buffs" as it was pointed out if you are able to swap/mem out different spells. If it's not a buff that needs refreshing every few minutes then I'll just take it out of the bar and put something else in. I did it for years in EQ and it never bothered me. I'd rather have only 1 hotbard for spells and 1 that is generic for other things.
bigdogchris said:In terms of clutter, if they open up the hotbars that would definitely be cluttered.
Joppa commented on the limited action set and opening that up. Can't you just have a bar for abilities/spells and another bar for macros/items rather than unlimited bars?
I don't see the need to allow multiple ability bars for "buffs" as it was pointed out if you are able to swap/mem out different spells. If it's not a buff that needs refreshing every few minutes then I'll just take it out of the bar and put something else in. I did it for years in EQ and it never bothered me. I'd rather have only 1 hotbard for spells and 1 that is generic for other things.
I think this is already the alluded to solution yea? Thats what I had gleaned when he said "we cant have people running around with their inventory open".
AbsoluteTerror said:if i can shrink the ui im find with it. i dont like huge ui and if i can shrink the name plates for the character and the mobs that would be icing on the cake!
Game looks amazing. i like the slow fight.
I somehow missed this quote. Very simple solution, and easily implemented. And yes, games looking great!
Since there's a toggle for "my nameplate" in the options currently, I can't imagine floating health/status bars not getting their own toggle for release. Every modern game I've seen with floating combat text, status windows, nameplates, chat bubbles - almost always toggleable. I would also expect to see toggles for "my target only" floaters (similar to what you'd see in the target window without the secondary/tertiary targets), toggles for all floaters, and perhaps even a UI window for hostile targets - like the group window but for baddies. Different classes and playstyles may want more or less information, or control over how they see it (like tabbing through targets with "my target only" floaters toggled). I expect you may also be able to filter visible buffs/debuffs in the vein of "mine only" or maybe even specific, breakable control debuffs - like mezzes. The devs have stated previously that the UI will be moddable, so hopefully everyone will be able to find something that works for them and funnel available information where they want it.
Options aren't bad things, typically, but they will inherently come with pros/cons (especially elements relating to combat efficiency). Kind of like "having cake and eating it too." Do I eat the cake, not eat the cake, and if I eat it, how big of a piece? In that metaphor, I guess screen clutter is weight gain? Anywho...
The mobs were always going to have debuffs and visual cues for those effects (mez has always had a highly noticeable effect, for instance). Now they're just easier to track visually towards the center of the screen to avoid mashing tab - if one so chooses (assuming toggles).
Perhaps the OP would favor a hostile targets window as mentioned above? I know I used one in Vanguard for things like AoE kiting. But then again, that might be too much clutter too? Not sure what another solution to wanting the information without being able to see it easily might be.
Convo said:Overall the UI is still a work in progress but we definitely want to be sure there are plenty of options for you all to get the layout the way you want it.
Thanks. I pretty much expected that to be the situation, but it's always reassuring to hear it from VR.
Jothany said:Convo said:Overall the UI is still a work in progress but we definitely want to be sure there are plenty of options for you all to get the layout the way you want it.
Thanks. I pretty much expected that to be the situation, but it's always reassuring to hear it from VR.
Hear, hear. Thanks much, the games looking great!
It was not about the option of disabling it, as I said above If I turn the HP bars off I will be at a disadvantage and be less effective, in a group game with death penalty, putting yourself at a disadvantage is not something I'm willing to do or something I want others doing.
Apparently I'm one of the only players that sees this as a huge disappointment and change of direction when comapared to the original clean and minimalistic UI, that was presented in previous streams.
jpedrote said:It was not about the option of disabling it, as I said above If I turn the HP bars off I will be at a disadvantage and be less effective, in a group game with death penalty, putting yourself at a disadvantage is not something I'm willing to do or something I want others doing.
Apparently I'm one of the only players that sees this as a huge disappointment and change of direction when comapared to the original clean and minimalistic UI, that was presented in previous streams.
I will have the health bars off and that'll give me the advantage. This is a matter of perspective, and from my perspective as a non tank - less is better. Honestly this feature offers very little benefit if your used to paying attention, and is likely to just get in the way/be overkill. A hostile targets window would be far more tivializing, whereas this doesnt trivialize anything? Bout the only boon this offers is what mob to attack next when you dont have an assist set. Big deal.
Apparently you are one of the only ones, in fact your the only one Ive heard with this complaint. Try as I may I cannot share your concern.
jpedrote said:It was not about the option of disabling it, as I said above If I turn the HP bars off I will be at a disadvantage and be less effective, in a group game with death penalty, putting yourself at a disadvantage is not something I'm willing to do or something I want others doing.
Apparently I'm one of the only players that sees this as a huge disappointment and change of direction when comapared to the original clean and minimalistic UI, that was presented in previous streams.
Joppa said they are doing this to keep peoples "eyes up" and on the action rather than looking at the UI all the time. It's a noble thought but the implementation is off right now.
The health bar's of the mobs don't need to be 1/2 inch think. The could make the health bars just a sliver and that is enough information for us.
Also the debuffs and detriments that are currenlty on a mob are way to big too. Maybe they just think we all have bad vision or something.
jpedrote said:Turning Off =/= Removing, If i turn the healthbars off to make the game more engaging, I will be handycaping myself, I will have less information, I will play in a sub optimal way and will reduce the groups effectiveness
I get that you might have concerns about the UI, but I don't understand why your reasons for changing it have to be so polarizing. Adding in functionality, including on/off toggles, size, shape, buff size, font, transparency, and so on is pretty much standard in modern gaming, and probably even more so in MMOs. I'm not sure why this needs to be boiled down to a binary choice. So long as there are a robust set of options which allow me to customize what I see and how, I'm fine. This doesn't need to be all or none.
I think a great example for an MMO that provides the kind of UI customization I would like to see in Pantheon is Star Wars: The Old Republic. Say what you will about the game - lord knows I have - but the amount of options the game offers to customize your play experience is fantastic.
I think rather than trying to create a single UI that is somehow everything to everyone, creating an overall aesthetic that is congruent with a single art style and then allowing players to tailor the fine details to their taste and play style, is a much more efficient way to go. That said, I would say consider not thinking of the UI as a single entity (and one that you don't like) and maybe consider it as a set of customizable elements, that when tweaked to your tastes, will enhance your play experience.
Convo said:No doubt there will be options. Just please don't lose the original vision of requiring people make decisions. There's nothing wrong with having to swap out abilities as needed throughout combat. But I understand people might want a 2nd bar for macro's etc since the primary is the LAS for abilities.Overall the UI is still a work in progress but we definitely want to be sure there are plenty of options for you all to get the layout the way you want it.