Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

12/12 Stream Thoughts

    • 1019 posts
    December 12, 2019 12:51 PM PST

    Looking great.  I love the look of it now. 

    The UI isn't pretty, doesn't bother me, and I know, or assume it's a working UI.  Personally, I like the way it looks.  Did not enjoy the health bar look and the lack of difference between group members and mobs, or even the mob you have targeted vs. other engaged mobs.

    Still don't like the trumpet sound when engaging in combat.

    I was spamming the Sheath question and Cohh asked it.  Not in yet, but it is planned.  Yeah for auto Sheath while out of combat.

    Experience gain seemed fast.  Hoping it's only for the dev build.

    I don't know what it is with the combat, but I find it a little too dull.  (Not slow) Cohh even talked to his audience about it and I don't need something to look like Ashes of Creation, and I'm not on the combat is slow bandwagon, but I want to stay engaged while in combat.  Joppa mentioed the action loadout.  Limiting hotbars isn't fun to me.  Especially at level 40.  At level 40 you have 1 hotbat of abilities??  Unfotunatly, we were just watching Cohh wait to use an ability.

    Loved climbing and the non-linier path of dungeon crawling.  And falling off a wall and dieing = nice!

    When do we get our bag of goddies?

    • 6 posts
    December 12, 2019 1:33 PM PST

    awesome zone...

    the health bars on mobs could be better hoping that they make that better....

    combat time i think is spot on....and hoping that the dullness is only from seeing other peps playing...

    climing is nice and grabbing the ledge is new for me in mmos...

     

    but what about the DING sound ....well that brings back memories :)

    • 291 posts
    December 12, 2019 1:47 PM PST

    Whole thing felt like home to me. Im confident TONS of modifications are still on the table between now and launch, so altering target bars is just a matter of feedback like this away from reality. The mechanics looked solid, the ui is really a finishing touch. Im bout to watch the stream again.... hope they get longer lol. btw helgi.... torv?

    • 6 posts
    December 12, 2019 2:19 PM PST

    felt like home to me as well.....Alyonyah....have no idea what torv is....:)

    • 291 posts
    December 12, 2019 2:23 PM PST

    haha ok. Yea this is technically still pre alpha. I see some animations altogether missing, but no worrys. Im sure all that polish will tie in by the end, but the mechanics all look good.

    • 231 posts
    December 12, 2019 3:16 PM PST

    I thought it was pretty stunning. I love the climbing and general verticality. Looks pretty good for pre-alpha.

    • 523 posts
    December 13, 2019 2:12 AM PST

    Guess they are deleting any critical posts.  I'll try again with simple critiques.  If the following is "too hot", I give up.

     

    1)  A one hour stream where you are playing with a guy that has no idea what he is doing (Cohh) and you spend 30 minutes of it dying to the same pull is not productive to us.  You want to show us how the warrior works?  You need to have someone that knows how to play it, play it, and talk us through what is going on.  Cohh is as clueless as it comes, not his fault, but he had no clue what to do or what was happening.  You can watch the playback yourselves.  If the goal was to teach us anything about how the warrior's stuff works and see it in action, it was an absolute bust.

    2)  The taunt animation is really, really, really bad.  Watch it in effect, he just sticks his sword in the mobs neck and wiggles it.  It looked interesting on the original animation presentation, but it does not work in the game.  Anyone watching that stream sees that.  It's bad and needs a fix.

    3)  Back to the one hour stream.  I love Ben's post in January of this year promising us tons of streams, we've had two extremely weak one hour streams now.  Give us a 3-5 hour play session stream just with pre-alpha players or yourselves to show off what you've done.  

    4)  Sounds like you've given up on the Bard before launch, so now there has to be 1000 enchanters to fill the support role in the quaternity that only has one class.  The stream today only reinforced that with Cohh himself stating the obvious.  You guys made a massive design mistake not having more support based classes in game, especially the bard.  Any really, you need at least a third class, could easily make the Necro a support/CC class to round out the playing options and give different flavors of support to choose from.

    5)  The climbing stuff is good.  The freedom to explore and all the lore tucked away, that's good.  The more, the better.

    6)  The pace of combat might be fine, it did feel exceptionally slow in this video, but that might have to do with the Warrior not knowing what he was doing, some bad pulls, and no support class in the group to help with said bad pulls.

    7)  As for abilities, I'm not sure the limited action set is the way to go, I'm on the fence here after originally being for it.  So, hearing Joppa say that is open to testing how it feels is nice to hear.  I know I don't want EQ2 type hotbars, but WoW Classic feels pretty good to me.  I agree strategic gameplay is the defining characteristic, so whatever promotes that best without tedium.  

    8)  Character models and animations continue to look dated, even with the newer stuff.  Some of the warrior animations (taunt especially) looked bad.  The environment and weapons/armor looks good though.  

    9)  Amberfaet looked noticeably better, though the NPCs need some work.  Im sure that will come.

    10)  Thought the UI was fine, a little too clunky and clean for what I like, glad that mods and alterations can be done.  

     

    Overall, definitely some improvement to the zone.  The climbing stuff looks fantastic.  The tucked away lore is great.  The new animations are not good and need refinement.  The biggest issue is that Cohh's one hour block stream time is not sufficient for showing and walking us through new things.  It's a marketing approach, we get that, but it doesn't do anything for the long standing community.  Please consider a much longer session with people who know the classes and can show off the skill and technique to play well while explaining new things and strategy.  

    • 2756 posts
    December 13, 2019 3:22 AM PST

    I enjoyed the stream and I like Cohh's enthusiasm. I know what people are saying about it not being the best vehicle to showcase stuff, but that's the point of a stream. If you want to showcase something, you make a pre-recorded, edited, concise, detail-packed but understandable 'presentation' video. A stream is for watching a player play which is what we got.

    Having said that, I *would* like to see some pre-recorded, edited videos from the devs alongside the streamer program, but I know these things do take a surprising amount of time to do well. Can't wait until the pre-alpha NDA lifts. I will do my own ;^)  I assume we will see more of that stuff as the bi-weekly dev videos continue.

    Amberfaet did look great, though the almost wholly blue lighting was a little dreary after a while.

    The climbing does look good. I have been worried it would lead to messiness and exploits, but I'm heartened to see it functioning well already.

    Once they got to monsters their level, the combat pace was fine. As Cohh explained (and does every stream) it's intended to be tactical, not non-stop-action. If it looked dull, it's because it's very hard to display the intensity of that kind of tactical combat. The best example was when Cohh realised the monsters were healing and he had to time his shield bash or have an everylasting combat. That's just one small example of the dozen things a warrior will probably need to be worrying about in combat.

    Yes, it wasn't a great use of time, but I like that they wiped. It was reassuring to see that the intention clearly is for groups to be challenged. If a group that doesn't know the area with a tank that doesn't know the class *didn't* wipe when pulling multiple monsters, that would be more worrying. I was also good to see a group managing without an enchanter. There was rooting and stunning and off-tanking going on. All good stuff. The quad of tank, heal, dps and control might well dictate the perfect mix, but a group should be able to mitigate a non-perfect mix by their skill or power or level or whatever else.

    The pacing and challenge and that kind of stuff can all be easily tweaked and balanced as long as the mechanics are solid, which they look to be.

    All-in-all, enjoyed seeing it - could do with a longer session - would like to see more 'expert' presentations - can't wait for PA5 and NDA lift ;^)

    • 291 posts
    December 13, 2019 3:26 AM PST

    Mathir said:

    Guess they are deleting any critical posts.  I'll try again with simple critiques.  If the following is "too hot", I give up.

     

    1)  A one hour stream where you are playing with a guy that has no idea what he is doing (Cohh) and you spend 30 minutes of it dying to the same pull is not productive to us.  You want to show us how the warrior works?  You need to have someone that knows how to play it, play it, and talk us through what is going on.  Cohh is as clueless as it comes, not his fault, but he had no clue what to do or what was happening.  You can watch the playback yourselves.  If the goal was to teach us anything about how the warrior's stuff works and see it in action, it was an absolute bust.

    2)  The taunt animation is really, really, really bad.  Watch it in effect, he just sticks his sword in the mobs neck and wiggles it.  It looked interesting on the original animation presentation, but it does not work in the game.  Anyone watching that stream sees that.  It's bad and needs a fix.

    3)  Back to the one hour stream.  I love Ben's post in January of this year promising us tons of streams, we've had two extremely weak one hour streams now.  Give us a 3-5 hour play session stream just with pre-alpha players or yourselves to show off what you've done.  

    4)  Sounds like you've given up on the Bard before launch, so now there has to be 1000 enchanters to fill the support role in the quaternity that only has one class.  The stream today only reinforced that with Cohh himself stating the obvious.  You guys made a massive design mistake not having more support based classes in game, especially the bard.  Any really, you need at least a third class, could easily make the Necro a support/CC class to round out the playing options and give different flavors of support to choose from.

    5)  The climbing stuff is good.  The freedom to explore and all the lore tucked away, that's good.  The more, the better.

    6)  The pace of combat might be fine, it did feel exceptionally slow in this video, but that might have to do with the Warrior not knowing what he was doing, some bad pulls, and no support class in the group to help with said bad pulls.

    7)  As for abilities, I'm not sure the limited action set is the way to go, I'm on the fence here after originally being for it.  So, hearing Joppa say that is open to testing how it feels is nice to hear.  I know I don't want EQ2 type hotbars, but WoW Classic feels pretty good to me.  I agree strategic gameplay is the defining characteristic, so whatever promotes that best without tedium.  

    8)  Character models and animations continue to look dated, even with the newer stuff.  Some of the warrior animations (taunt especially) looked bad.  The environment and weapons/armor looks good though.  

    9)  Amberfaet looked noticeably better, though the NPCs need some work.  Im sure that will come.

    10)  Thought the UI was fine, a little too clunky and clean for what I like, glad that mods and alterations can be done.  

     

    Overall, definitely some improvement to the zone.  The climbing stuff looks fantastic.  The tucked away lore is great.  The new animations are not good and need refinement.  The biggest issue is that Cohh's one hour block stream time is not sufficient for showing and walking us through new things.  It's a marketing approach, we get that, but it doesn't do anything for the long standing community.  Please consider a much longer session with people who know the classes and can show off the skill and technique to play well while explaining new things and strategy.  

     

    Im pretty certain that being critical isnt deleted. I had started to read your previous post but vomited in my mouth instead. I was going to respond but decided to sleep instead. Im glad you could rephrase your concerns in a more constructive manner, and Im glad that theres a moderator here insuring you do so. Honestly I agree with much you have said here, but I needed this format before I could read anymore.

     

    Warrior taunt animation = perhaps a thread in warrior forums so that they can give feedback? Seems best way to effect change to me.

     

    Given up on bard = being a bard Im not sure how you came to this conclusion. Bard was on several items in the stream, and Ive heard NOTHING suggesting bards are not on the radar pre-launch. I feel bard is a must for the very reasons you outlined, and that is why I ASSUME it will be in.

     

    Longer streams = yea I think we all want this.

     

    Climbing = looks like a far more powerful addition to mmos than Id anticipated. Especially this climb everything system.

     

    Pace of combat = This was key. It might be a bit slow, but its damn close to perfect. So looking forward to this experience, Im sure this part will be nailed.

     

    Character animations = in some cases wernt even present. Obviously a ways off on that, and not stressing it. Models themselves seemed decent however. Amberfaet was AWESOME! Felt like I was there.

     

    UI = is far enough a long that I have no concerns about it. Childs play.

     

    Anyways. Much love to the dev team keep up the great work, and much love to folks keeping the forums constructive.

     

     

     

    • 1019 posts
    December 13, 2019 5:13 AM PST

    Mathir said:1)  A one hour stream where you are playing with a guy that has no idea what he is doing (Cohh) and you spend 30 minutes of it dying to the same pull is not productive to us.  You want to show us how the warrior works?  You need to have someone that knows how to play it, play it, and talk us through what is going on.  Cohh is as clueless as it comes, not his fault, but he had no clue what to do or what was happening.  You can watch the playback yourselves.  If the goal was to teach us anything about how the warrior's stuff works and see it in action, it was an absolute bust.

    I don't know that it mattered that much.  Plus I don't want to see a prefect group.  In Cohh's defense, you're correct.  It seemed he didn't know what he was doing and played the class subpar, but that can be said for anyone that is given a level 40 toon and told to lead the group.

    Mathir said:2)  The taunt animation is really, really, really bad.  Watch it in effect, he just sticks his sword in the mobs neck and wiggles it.  It looked interesting on the original animation presentation, but it does not work in the game.  Anyone watching that stream sees that.  It's bad and needs a fix.

    Strongly agree.  It was cring-worthy.  Not a great in combat animation.

    Mathir said:3)  Back to the one hour stream.  I love Ben's post in January of this year promising us tons of streams, we've had two extremely weak one hour streams now.  Give us a 3-5 hour play session stream just with pre-alpha players or yourselves to show off what you've done.  

    Tis what it tis.  Remember their team size and the magnitute of the project they are working on.

    Mathir said:4)  Sounds like you've given up on the Bard before launch, so now there has to be 1000 enchanters to fill the support role in the quaternity that only has one class.  The stream today only reinforced that with Cohh himself stating the obvious.  You guys made a massive design mistake not having more support based classes in game, especially the bard.  Any really, you need at least a third class, could easily make the Necro a support/CC class to round out the playing options and give different flavors of support to choose from.

    I didn't catch that they've given up on the bard before launch.  But do agree that would be a mistake.  And yes, more support classes would be beneficial.

    Mathir said:5)  The climbing stuff is good.  The freedom to explore and all the lore tucked away, that's good.  The more, the better.

    Yep.

    Mathir said:6)  The pace of combat might be fine, it did feel exceptionally slow in this video, but that might have to do with the Warrior not knowing what he was doing, some bad pulls, and no support class in the group to help with said bad pulls.

    The pace was fine, it was just dull.  Maybe other classes are more engaged in combat than the MT.  But if other classes are more engaging in combat than the MT, something is wrong.

    Mathir said:7)  As for abilities, I'm not sure the limited action set is the way to go, I'm on the fence here after originally being for it.  So, hearing Joppa say that is open to testing how it feels is nice to hear.  I know I don't want EQ2 type hotbars, but WoW Classic feels pretty good to me.  I agree strategic gameplay is the defining characteristic, so whatever promotes that best without tedium. 

    I don't want to see EQ2 either, but I'm very against the idea of here's an ability and here's another ability, choose which one you want to use during the fight, mindset. 

    Mathir said:8)  Character models and animations continue to look dated, even with the newer stuff.  Some of the warrior animations (taunt especially) looked bad.  The environment and weapons/armor looks good though.

    Naa, I liked the way it all looked.  (Minus the warrior taunt annimation of course)

     

    • 1247 posts
    December 13, 2019 5:56 AM PST

    Beautiful, just beautiful! Excellent progress VR!

    • 51 posts
    December 13, 2019 7:28 AM PST

    I thought that the stream went very well.

    I read Mathir's original post......making absolute demands is not a way to go, especially when a person is a single opinion and might not represent the community as a whole.

    From the stream, I assume that all characters were level 40, so mobs might be smarter than your lower level mobs, so you drop a streamer in at level 40, that might not have the experience, especially as the puller in an unfamiliar area and I would expect some wipes.

    "1000 enchanters": support classes vs utility, I disagree. Other classes that have different forms of cc like root spells and Celestial Aegis can easily fill the gap. You do not need a chanter in the group to be a great group. I will take a smart group and puller any time over having the perceived notion that a certain class is needed in a group to be a successful group.

    Overall, animations were great in my opinion and are coming along well. I am glad that VR's animations do not look like many of the cartoonish animations like many newer or Asian MMOs.

    The comments about ever-changing mob dispositions did not fall on deaf ears! Way to go in keeping content fresh!

     

    • 2138 posts
    December 13, 2019 8:50 AM PST

    I have seen half the stream, I was raiding last night and it got late.

    My response is to the weasles, who may not have posted but whose noses are twitching in the unseen background.

    Weasles, this is not a tutorial. This is not a how-to on the warrior. Good people understand the joy of the game is discovery and playing (not seeing, not being shown) but experiencing and learning it new, right out of the box as-it-were. If you do not understand this, well then, the logical conclusion is that you are not good people. This stands to reason because you are by your nature, weasles, not people and as a result also not insulted by my comment but rather remain, blank faced and twitching over there, away from us.

    Someone mentioned the clutter or blocky-ness of NPC healthbars and buff icons, yes this is observable but I thought of "rise of the fallen" part of the Logo and what Ben discussed 2 weeks ago on the dev stream on how to make it pop. You remember? this was with the "0" in pantheon and the slow reveal, the Bazgrim highlighted faint 9 stars in the design etc etc- while attention was drawn to the minutae of the "0"

    That border of "rise of the fallen" did so pop. Such an easy thing it was, or so I took it to be the way Ben described it. If that is such an easy thing, how much easier would NPC healthbars and buff icons also be made to "pop" I mean, look how well the art group put knots on trees in a day.... in a day. I'm not being sarcastic.

    What I did like was trying to figure out how the shields worked and how the side meter worked, I thought it was a nice little heads-up display that was not too  overbearing regarding ability use- but needed some learning to get used to. Like the asian game "Go" a general game design tennant is to make a complex game easy to learn but a lifetime to master, hard to do in an MMO which by it's non-weasle nature is hard to do. 

     

    • 411 posts
    December 13, 2019 9:13 AM PST

    I actually really liked the stream. Sure, the combat doesn't seem intense but you can't see stategy. I have never seen an MMO where the depth of play is visible through watching someone play. Watching people play chess is boring as anything unless you've played it yourself. Even after the rules have been explained, the depth of strategy is really hard to discern by watching others play.

    My main concern that came up was that they're considering abandoning the LAS. I am completely on board for LAS+ (where you get extra bars for things that aren't active combat abilities). I've had my fun with MMOs where you have 40+ abilities that you weave like a seamstress of magic, but I don't want Pantheon to be a finger jockey MMO because I really want to see diversity in Pantheon's communities. People have limited mental capacities and it's easy for developers to exceed those limitations. MMOs that make class mechanics too complex result either in players being so "distracted" that they ignore the visual/audio cues (because they're concentrating so hard on getting their class play right) or systems are introduced to ease the burden (macros, add-ons, etc.).

    I think the taunt animation looks perfect when performed at a distance. It just looks too exposing and overly dramatic when used at close range. I wonder if they could add a range check, keep the current one for enemies >10m away and add a second animation for <10m. I know it's costly to create animations, but maybe not much more than making a new animation to replace the current one.

     

    • 595 posts
    December 13, 2019 10:39 AM PST

    Ainadak said:

    My main concern that came up was that they're considering abandoning the LAS. I am completely on board for LAS+ (where you get extra bars for things that aren't active combat abilities).

    I can definitely get behind this idea.   And frankly, whatever the final iteration looks like, I hope that we have extra hotbars to toggle on/off which allow us the ability to hotkey non-combat abilities, like consumables, clickies, emotes, etc.

    • 523 posts
    December 13, 2019 10:59 AM PST

    To follow up on the responses...

     

    A)  At some point in the stream Cohh asked exactly how many classes would be launched with and Joppa was very affirmative in 12.  Not like the past where he said the Bard would also likely make it in, looking good, or anything else.  It was 12.  That means no bard.

    B)  It's been a year.  Animations began last January.  They look bad.  WoW Classic has better animations, which granted, was a strong point of Blizzard design.  I know the game isn't fully animatied or even 10% there, but the Warrior has been tweaked for a year, and the goal was to have the animations in game for Project Faerthale for demo purposes.  If VR thinks these Warrior animations look good, I think the general gaming public will heavily disagree.  Animations and fluidity are extremely important.  I'd almost say back to the drawing board for many of these.

    C)  Nobody wants a walk through on how to play a Warrior.  VR wanted to show off their combat resource system and Cohh was unable to articulate or show it in any form.  Organic gameplay is great, but this was not that.  And when you want to show off some new things that you've been working hard on, this was not the way to do it.  I know nothing more about how that Warrior combat and resource system works than I did from Joppa's recent interviews.  Hard to know how I feel about something "new" if it really wasn't highlighted despite being the reason for the stream.

    D)  I don't view myself as negative or positive about this game.  I'm hoping it's good and it'll be the only game I play for the next 10 years with my large MMO gaming family.  Wife plays and adult kids and their significant others play.  MMOs are how I spend time with my kids while they are spread out around the country.  I want this game to be like EQ1 or WoW, both games I loved.  I'd even take EQ2 or Vanguard at this point with the current climate.  What I am not going to do is praise people when I don't see anything to praise.  I don't care about alpha, I don't care about launch date, and I don't care if I hurt people's feelings, though that is not my intent.  Brutal honesty is.  My opinions here are my opinions, they are not nefarious or absolute, but they do represent what I think and likely a great many people who don't post and are watching from the sidelines think.  When VR does something good, I give that opinion and I say why in detail.  When they do something I worry about, I give that opinion, and I say why in detail.  I try and see all sides of the issue.  The issue here is game development and progress.  There is a lot to be concerned about if you want this game to succeed as badly as I do.  Looking forward to the Project Faerthale reveal because that will be very telling on the projection of development.  I'm very much interested in progress because quite a few people are waiting on me to tell them to pledge or not.  I'm in for a chunk sum, but I'm not comfortable enough recommending my friends and family to invest yet because progress has been slow and very little new has been shown since Black Rose Keep two years ago.  I think all of that is a valid concern.

    E)  I, unlike some, encourage and enjoy seeing all views on these forums.  My preference is to see people try and be balanced with good and bad, and not just naysay or white knight.  Most of you are solid at that.  And I think negative feedback, when coming from the right place, is the best type of feedback a developer can get.  They get to decide whether to use it or not.  I'm on many other forums, same name, and the rosey view of things on these forums is not representative of what many others are thinking.  This forum gets a bad rap due to over-moderating and white knighting.  That's fine if VR and the posters here need a safe space, it's their forum and rules, but it does nothing to help the team know what the wider general public might think and we all need those people to keep the lights turned on for this game or it will be sunsetted like Vanguard or Wildstar.  Chasing off criticism is a mistake in my opinion.  Asking that the criticism be given in a constructive manner is not though, which I tried to do here.  And again, I think seeing various opinions and counter-arguments are good for everyone.

    • 201 posts
    December 13, 2019 11:36 AM PST

    I have been gone for a few weeks and did not get to watch the stream yet, but the first thing that was very noticeable to me in this thread was that stuff had been deleted and removed because the posts made no sense to start.  Then, after reading more of it, it was confirmed that clearly stuff is being removed, as it was part of the on going discussion.  I did not get to read the original discussion in its initial form so I cannot comment on if stuff was out of line or not, but I wish I could have.  As a fan, I wanted to read other opinions about it, since "most" of the posters here, positive or negative, express pretty informed and well articulated thoughts based on a shared history of MMO gaming.  I want to hear the thoughts, good and bad, of people who ostensibly are here because they are like me...people who have played MMOs back to the EQ days.  Those thoughts are valuable to me, positive or negative. 

    Just like I said in the post I made about deletions, and going with what Mathir said, this place has a bad rap for way too much over moderation with criticism. As a fan, I would like to have read what was said and the opinions everyone else had, now all I am left with is the perception that it was all critical and is being covered up to quiet it, because well...that is how it looks.  If the notion is that by deleting posts endlessly, people won't say critical stuff, that just is not right.  As Mathir says, they will just say it elsewhere, where there are a lot more fans and potential fans who are not as committed to this game.  Places like Reddit etc, where other potential gamers are at...the type of population the game would need to succeed beyond the core, not just the already committed people who come here and those who come here to post support no matter what.  Honestly, I believe that unless you are posting offensive stuff that is not connected to the game (hate speech etc), personally attacking posters, etc, then posts should be left alone.  Threads should pretty much only get locked at their worst, and that should be reserved for when they devolve into the stuff above.  Otherwise, leave them be.  Jeez, are resources so scarce that the forum has to be kept as lean as possible or something?

    Also, while on the topic of moderation and the over moderation, I think it is amusing we moderate and delete criticisms and repeat posts (although that does seem to be confined only to stuff that leads again to "negative" stuff, like the state of release date etc) but not the endless stream of posts about things like saying posters are just "circle jerking" or that dissenting opinions cause them to "vomit in their mouth" when they read them, and other similar ad hominem attacks that are pointless and borderline offensive and contribute zero to the discussion, and come from a small group of people.  How about we get an ignore button if we are not going to moderate them so that we can not have to look at their posts?  Not a complex thing to add to a forum.  Plus, I am sure many of those same people would be equally happy to be able to categorically block all the posters who they detest beyond measure because they are known to post things other than blind support. 


    This post was edited by antonius at December 13, 2019 12:09 PM PST
    • 51 posts
    December 13, 2019 12:32 PM PST

    Everybody has and is entitled to opinions. Some liked and some disliked the stream. At the end of the day, VR does not have enough time to do the impossible task of trying to please everybody within a reasonable timeframe nor do we know constraints that they operate under. I liked just about everything about the stream, including the graphics. So, another opinion.

    • 291 posts
    December 13, 2019 1:18 PM PST

    I think its hilarious some folks start yappin off out the side of their neck in these forums, and then they get all astute and indignant when they re-respond in a way as to act as if the censorship has everything to do with their negative perspectives (which are still openly voiced) and nothing to do with the seething animosity for devs and community (which only thinly gets veiled). Its an astounding level of willful ignorance. Please develop. Level up already, and communicate properly the first time. Wear your mask if you must.

    • 4 posts
    December 13, 2019 7:28 PM PST

    I liked the stream a lot. I think its really great that the cadance of updates is picking up. The more updates the more people are going to be biting the bullet and pledging, and the more people pledging the easier to hire and accelerate this thing over the finish line. In that same vein, I hope they open up Alpha soon. Always feel like opening up the product to users / testers sooner rather than later really improves the end result.


    This post was edited by wbarksdale at December 13, 2019 7:38 PM PST
    • 145 posts
    December 13, 2019 7:36 PM PST
    It was great thanks vr
    • 768 posts
    December 13, 2019 10:09 PM PST

    1) I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was having difficulty enjoying all the blueish environment for the time of a full hour. Yes, the zone looks better than before, but for me it's just too much of the same colourchoice. I get that there are no yellow fire torches so that prevents other colours being present in the zone. Players could carry torches, that might make it less monotone for me.  I don't see myself enjoying the environment when I'm spending 12 hours in this zone. I think I'd be glad to go back to town or dive in a darker cavern just for sake of change of colourpatterns. (perhaps my eyes get tiered more easily nowadays)

    2) Some warrior animation did look cluncky, for example that taunt and I'm also in agreement with someone who mentioned that some animations come out better when at range. Now the environment around the group did not allow them to spread out a bit more. There is still room for improvement, for sure.

    3) I liked how Coh showcased, that this is not "a jump in I'll plow through this game". He was learning fast on what to do, but only because VR explained and told him what to do and when. I'm happy to play the game without this advice and discover it myself. Like some mentioned in other threads, no need to explain everything before we get the chance to discover and learn it for ourself with our own experiences.

    4) They also demonstrated that a CC  (at least in this part of Amberfeat) is not a requirement to be succesful. It will just require the players to push different tactics forwards. And all the better for that. 

    5) I found that I was looking a lot at the Healthbars in the first half of the stream. Which as a spectator is pretty much to be expected. But as VR discussed more and more about the depth of the warrior class, my focus really went to which buttons is Coh pushing, when is he timing, what is the animation of the mob and how is the surroundings responding to their group being present there. From that part of the stream, I found it much more engaging and the pace of combat seemed spot on. Especially considering, that not everything is in the game, a new player to the game tanking and VR just letting it all happen, even if it meant whiping. 

    6) When talking about number of hotbars, (see related thread?) it seems to me that experience playing this game with one hotbar will give the best source to feedback to see if more hotbars are necessary. When thinking that this game can and will expand over the years after launch, it seems still potentially possible to unroll that if needed. (for sake of using items from your inventory without having your bags open).

    7) I agree that the amount of streaming time is good for promotional use, but as a community member, I would have enjoyed a slower, longer stream. (some more developmental beans perhaps?) I'll push that on the biweekly newsletter, so hopefully we'll get that extra bit there. It would fall a bit short if this Coh stream would be the only thing on the actual newsletter.

    8) It's debatable, but I like how the community responds as the game is getting reveiled more and more. Some still have their eye caps on and run into the fact that this game really isn't like most current games. Looking at this from a distance, you can see how even the community who knows much more then most, are still growing into the game and how they might need to alter their standings when viewing this game. (because there is still so much we as community will discover and learn about that game?)  Feedback from community members on a stream is something that I'm truely missing with Coh's stream. A lot of new people ask the same old questions and stumble over the obvious things that make Pantheon Pantheon. So, although I liked Coh's stream for other aspects, I'd like it even more if there is one with the majority of the viewers being community members ...as they ask the hard questions and speak the hard  more constructively words (but needed as wel, for sake of a better developed game).


    This post was edited by Barin999 at December 13, 2019 10:13 PM PST
    • 768 posts
    December 13, 2019 10:34 PM PST

    I was dissapointed that Coh didn't get burned by standing on the fire.  I hope they adjust that so that you actually get hurt when standing on a fire. 

    • 291 posts
    December 14, 2019 5:38 AM PST

    When I saw the other group run by I got hella jealous. lol.

    • 7 posts
    December 14, 2019 2:10 PM PST

    Alyonyah said:

    When I saw the other group run by I got hella jealous. lol.

     

    I know right!! I so wanted to be in either of those groups. I loved the stream from top to bottom. Everyone just has to realize that it's a work in progress, and what progress we have seen! The animations are WAY better than I have seen in earlier streams, and I am sure will only get better. The climbing system looks great so far, and the perception system is allot of fun. I look forward to using that system in game. Congratz to VR and all involved for creating something to be proud of, and thank you for letting us all be apart of it!