Ok. I want to talk about the GIANT pink elephant in the room.
What happens now, without Brad?
The game (pantheon) and VR were owned by brad? right? Does the ownership of the game now go to his wife or kids?
I know saw a post or two saying "we are going to continue making the game" ok. Says who? Is someone in Brad's family stepping into his role? Is someone in Brad's family going to continue to pay people working on the game? (sorry, but people don't make games for free if they don't own it) Does anyone in Brad's family care at all about Pantheon or the project? Are they in the process of handing over assets to Chris Rowan, Tim Sullivan, and Ben Dean ? Does Chris Rowan, as an executive producer have any rights to the game?
Can Brad's family just decide tomorrow that this project isn't something they want to mess with and simply close it down completely? or sell off what IS done to anyone that wants it??
I am not trying to be disrespectful to Brad's family or anyone at VR. We are grown-ups here. We just want the truth. I know several people decided to Pledge MORE after Brad died, hoping the game would continue. I am just the opposite. Until someone says Hey: VR/Pantheon is still a company that is now owned by: "INSERT NAME HERE" and that person is now over-seeing the project forever more. (including expansion etc)
If his family is going to remain "in control" of the game. What if they (brads family) let you guys make the game and decide to sell the IP to Daybreak Games, or Microsoft or EA for a lump sum so they can walk away with cash and no game to manage?
I wanted to get buy my brother a Pledge that included Alpha for Christmas. I am not sinking any more money into this project until Pantheon/VR opens up and tells us what is REALLY going to happen to the game.
Now that brad is gone, how true to HIS idea of an mmo are you guys to to keep the game?
Sorry. No one else posting anything like this, that I have seen. Sorry if it hurts anyones feelings. I just want real, HONEST answers. What is happening to Pantheon in the furture.
Good questions, although I don't believe Brad was a sole owner per se. People that put up the big money most likely hold that title.
But frankly, he was the main source of revenue generation. Now I suspect that well will go dry leaving the future of this MMO in serious question.
I thought they were redundant questions, because they have already been raised and found to be unjustified, or atleast exaggerated concerns. There are many people like you jumping the shark, I deal with them daily. The devs told us in the last stream that the game would be made to the letter, as well as responded to several threads JUST LIKE THIS ONE made by others who claimed to be the "only one" raising this concern as well, that this was nothing to worry about. In each case they have to diffuse the drama bombs perspectives like yours are lobbing all over the place. The games currently fine, and if brad was the main source of revenue then it stands to reason that will only increase posthumously (already has in the form of forum traffic) as is the case with everyone else who was ever loved by many.
-If the game succeeds its not going to be because people like you are pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are normal).
-If the game fails it might be because people like you cant stop pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are scary - everyone else be scared with me).
Confidence always wins, fear always fails. I Chose to sing a new song.
I guess you can keep being worried and reluctantly involved if THATS your will, but I somehow doubt it is.
From my perspective todays stream absolutely zaps these concerns. The games looking strong AND fun. I realize this games a long time coming but honestly making a game like this SHOULD have taken longer than whats the "norm". These guys have really came to the table and the fruits they brought are damn juicy. My /hats off to the devs.
Yes, we all know what happens when founders leave companies. Wozniak left Apple in 1985 and look what a mess... err... never mind.
Truth be told, Brad was the catalyst that made Pantheon spark into being. Now that the fire is burning, there are many bright and creative minds that are going to push forward and deliver on what was a shared vision for Pantheon.
I see no reason to doubt their ability to succeed. All evidence is to the contrary, in spite of fear-mongering.
Flapp said:What happens now, without Brad? ....
I mostly agree with Alyonyah and just thought I'd give you a few more bits of info. Technically, Pantheon the game is owned by Visionary Realms Inc, a private corporation. Like any private corp. they have no obligation to tell us who their investors are. From public statements, we do know that there ARE investors though. Given the kickstarter/crowdfunding origin of Pantheon, it's extremely unlikely that the company is/was entirely owned by Brad at this point, since investors usually expect to gain some ownership of that which they invest in.
Most of your questions about 'who is in charge, can they do this or that' are the private business of the McQuad family and/or VR Inc. As such, none of us are entitled to know the answers and it's overwhelmingly unlikely that we will get answers to them. I WILL say that your 'what ifs' seem to theorize counterproductive and illogical behavior from the people involved, and thus seem vanishingly unlikely to me. If you thought Pantheon was a good game to pledge to before, it still is.
It has been clearly stated by VR Devs both on the forums and on the first stream after Brad passed that VR has the full support of Brad's family to continue in the development of Pantheon.
Some long time ago, it was mentioned in a newsletter that VR had completed the "Design Documents" for Pantheon, wherein the main form and structure of the Gameworld and Gameplay mechanics were defined in some detail. While we have certainly lost Brad's continuing participation in game developement and expansions going forward, there's no reason to worry that VR will be unable to bring Pantheon to release as the game Brad intended it to be.
Alyonyah said:I thought they were redundant questions, because they have already been raised and found to be unjustified, or atleast exaggerated concerns. There are many people like you jumping the shark, I deal with them daily. The devs told us in the last stream that the game would be made to the letter, as well as responded to several threads JUST LIKE THIS ONE made by others who claimed to be the "only one" raising this concern as well, that this was nothing to worry about. In each case they have to diffuse the drama bombs perspectives like yours are lobbing all over the place. The games currently fine, and if brad was the main source of revenue then it stands to reason that will only increase posthumously (already has in the form of forum traffic) as is the case with everyone else who was ever loved by many.
-If the game succeeds its not going to be because people like you are pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are normal).
-If the game fails it might be because people like you cant stop pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are scary - everyone else be scared with me).
Confidence always wins, fear always fails. I Chose to sing a new song.
I guess you can keep being worried and reluctantly involved if THATS your will, but I somehow doubt it is.
look little girl. i am not here to "drop drama bombs" I am asking legit questions. I am sorry they aren't to your liking. You saw Brasse post saying "we will continue the game" and that was good enough for YOU. it is not good enough for me. And there have not been many posts like this one. I don't read the forums very much because there are 6-10 people that run these forums and when you get outside of what THEY think, you are wrong, and you get attacked.
Just like you. Since my questions don't jive with you, you attack me as a drama queen. How bout if you don't like it, don't comment. I didn't ask you for answers in the first place. I asked VR for answers. Just like Zew said. The name that bright money TO pantheon is gone. and you don't have a clue what they plan to do with this game. so don't act like you do.
I bet you anything, there are a LOT more like me. they consider this project dead in the water until someone steps up as leader to take Brads place. I am not giving more money until they DO tell us what is going to happen. They said They are going to keep on making the game today. They've already said that. Now answer bigger questions. Who is in charge now. who owns the rights to Pantheon? Who decides if it gets shut down? who decides it gets to keep going?
If they don't wanna share that info, fine, they don't want more money. the money was there because of brad. ( i don't mean that the team at VR isn't important, they are.) I gave money because this was Brad's game.
Flapp said:Alyonyah said:I thought they were redundant questions, because they have already been raised and found to be unjustified, or atleast exaggerated concerns. There are many people like you jumping the shark, I deal with them daily. The devs told us in the last stream that the game would be made to the letter, as well as responded to several threads JUST LIKE THIS ONE made by others who claimed to be the "only one" raising this concern as well, that this was nothing to worry about. In each case they have to diffuse the drama bombs perspectives like yours are lobbing all over the place. The games currently fine, and if brad was the main source of revenue then it stands to reason that will only increase posthumously (already has in the form of forum traffic) as is the case with everyone else who was ever loved by many.
-If the game succeeds its not going to be because people like you are pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are normal).
-If the game fails it might be because people like you cant stop pointing out the obvious problems (setbacks are scary - everyone else be scared with me).
Confidence always wins, fear always fails. I Chose to sing a new song.
I guess you can keep being worried and reluctantly involved if THATS your will, but I somehow doubt it is.
look little girl. i am not here to "drop drama bombs" I am asking legit questions. I am sorry they aren't to your liking. You saw Brasse post saying "we will continue the game" and that was good enough for YOU. it is not good enough for me. And there have not been many posts like this one. I don't read the forums very much because there are 6-10 people that run these forums and when you get outside of what THEY think, you are wrong, and you get attacked.
Just like you. Since my questions don't jive with you, you attack me as a drama queen. How bout if you don't like it, don't comment. I didn't ask you for answers in the first place. I asked VR for answers. Just like Zew said. The name that bright money TO pantheon is gone. and you don't have a clue what they plan to do with this game. so don't act like you do.
I bet you anything, there are a LOT more like me. they consider this project dead in the water until someone steps up as leader to take Brads place. I am not giving more money until they DO tell us what is going to happen. They said They are going to keep on making the game today. They've already said that. Now answer bigger questions. Who is in charge now. who owns the rights to Pantheon? Who decides if it gets shut down? who decides it gets to keep going?
If they don't wanna share that info, fine, they don't want more money. the money was there because of brad. ( i don't mean that the team at VR isn't important, they are.) I gave money because this was Brad's game.
Seems to me you should stop worrying about video games and start worrying about the fact you avoid confronting "male" dissenting opinions while zeroing in on the "little girl" because IN TRUTH your a "gutless punk" on the inside, and cant even hide that fact through all this technology. Pathetic.
Worst part is none of you "tough guys" who make these types of posts can handle one iota of the same treatment, which is why your all fish ina barrel for me. This is one of atleast a dozen such threads that Ive tied into that will inevitably be moderated because the OP is a phony " sorry if I hurt peoples feelings...." yea right. Your a fraud in the game of life. Which is why drama follows you everywhere you go, and I will crush you everytime you cross my path.
I gave money as well, but I look at it like when I lend a friend money, I don't expect to get it back. And I write it off as gone.
The latest stream is fine, but it does drive home how little has been done, and how little can be done.
This is a tiny studio. MMO's take a lot of bodies simply by definition.
I keep getting the feeling that VR is doing some kind of "Proof of Concept", hoping some large investor will swoop in and throw big bucks into the project, allowing for the hiring of a hundred content creators and what not.
Now with Brad gone for good this time (he disappeared during the development of Vanguard), and since he was the main face of revenue generation, it is very bad news.
I really wonder how long VR can plod along on what must be a shoestring. They don't have Star Citizen funds to throw away like SC did. Those people should be in jail. That was a fleecing and fraud. Like hiring a guy to build you a house, you keep giving him money and he slowly puts in one nail a day. Ten years later your house is still being built.
zewtastic said:I gave money as well, but I look at it like when I lend a friend money, I don't expect to get it back. And I write it off as gone.
The latest stream is fine, but it does drive home how little has been done, and how little can be done.
This is a tiny studio. MMO's take a lot of bodies simply by definition.
I keep getting the feeling that VR is doing some kind of "Proof of Concept", hoping some large investor will swoop in and throw big bucks into the project, allowing for the hiring of a hundred content creators and what not.
Now with Brad gone for good this time (he disappeared during the development of Vanguard), and since he was the main face of revenue generation, it is very bad news.
I really wonder how long VR can plod along on what must be a shoestring. They don't have Star Citizen funds to throw away like SC did. Those people should be in jail. That was a fleecing and fraud. Like hiring a guy to build you a house, you keep giving him money and he slowly puts in one nail a day. Ten years later your house is still being built.
The problem I have with what your saying is that it directly contradicts what the development team is adamently saying daily at this point, and you have no proof just hunches based on traumas you have experienced in the past, as you yourself outline. Im not saying your wrong, Im just saying theory crafting like the OP helps to do nothing but frustrate development with negative conspiracy theorys. I think that this attitude is way to pervasive in life, I cant seem to escape the opinions of people who think the worlds out to get them/upto something shady. Keep in mind I was a high end guild leader with over 80 members at launch of VG. I have been burnt and am not ignorant. Im fully versed in the ups and downs and I know from personal experience the same type of attitudes that caused the premature release of VG now threatens PROTF (impatient customer base/company wanting money return asap). If you were burnt by the same thing before as I have why do you feed this fire? I understand this games been in development a long time, but becoming impatient now cant help. It just cant.
Also I dont follow this logic that now that brads gone so is the money. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/28/five-artists-who-saw-a-boom-in-music-sales-after-death.html Theres countless examples of this throughout history. I cant find one example thats contrary. And support for this games soared in this past month by all visible indicators. Seems to me like brads death ensures this games production. Especially considering that this is literally what the devs said on camera the first stream after his passing.
"and please know that we are more galvanized than ever, to make sure that Pantheon is finished and that its the best game that it can be. And Brads memory will go on in Pantheon." - Chris "Joppa" Perkins facing the camera with everyone watching in real time... but im supposed to buy all these negative theories? Ive never even seen your faces or heard your voices. Because your not as invested in this as the devs are.
So odd that this is questioned openly every single day. Why do you guys stay here posting if you dont trust it? Thats like watching a tv show you dont like. Or like watching politics that you dont agree with, senseless aggrevation. For all of us.
zewtastic said:The latest stream is fine, but it does drive home how little has been done, and how little can be done.
MOST of VR has been spending MOST of their time building Project Faerthale for the last year. For whatever reasons, perhaps Brad's passing, perhaps the major uptick in 'Doom & Gloom' posts, they felt compelled to put out a stream this week. For obvious PR reasons they wouldn't want to show an unfinished Faerthale yet, so they take us to Amberfaet.
The dungeon and many gameplay details are noticeably improved since the last time we saw it. Yet you feel inclined to pass judgement on their rate of progress on the whole game, based on seeing what they haven't been focusing on for the last year and NOT seeing what they HAVE been focusing on.
zewtastic said:Now with Brad gone for good this time (he disappeared during the development of Vanguard), and since he was the main face of revenue generation, it is very bad news.
I really wonder how long VR can plod along on what must be a shoestring.
Then for good measure, you add your 'conclusions' about the state of VR's finances that can't possibly come from an authoritative source -unless you work as an accountant for VR. For added impact, you illogically throw in references to Vanguard's problems that were caused by Brad (as support for why Brad's absence will be a problem?).
Brad was part of revenue generation. But not nearly all of it. Like any MMO, they have a department devoted to it.
Pantheon didn't stop being "Brad's game" on Nov 18. Neither is it necessary for him to stop being the 'face' of Pantheon.
I've seen plenty of your opinions that I've agreed with. I just wish you could really see how much of what you posted is based more on pessimism than on factual analysis of the current situation.
I know MMOs take the lowest of the low, you need to reach botton (online FPS games) to find worse;
But even so (to the OP that is), is it really so difficult to project for a bit?
- This game will favour luck, not skill, for gear. Doesn't matter if you did the most DPS, or the least; if you were top healer, or bottom; it's gonna be a machine rolled dice that decides if you leave smiling. Or not. DKP all you want, if it doesn't drop, it.. doesn't drop. Try again next week! Zero dev thinking required, more of the same, iterated for 20+ years, so i gather they'll manage.
- This game will have zero tolerance for individual styles, it's a raid/camp-centric pew pew onliner, so 101% they will have an "optimal" talent/spec/AA setup they know you will "need" to go after. While giving you the illusion of choice along the way, lol.. which you WILL fall for, praising them for the "choices" they've given you!! Just like you did in EQ, and EQII, and Vanguard; also iterated for 20+ years now, so again, not exactly a risk of over-innovating here, now is it.
- This game will have loot, loot and more loot as its material and sentimental capital. All will revolve around whose worn loot is the bestest(!!11!). Just like for 20+ years now, give them the cheapest, shoddiest virtual carrot you can devise. And they shall follow. Such is the blessing of having the lowest of the low for a target audience. Yet again, not much to write home about. Plenty of examples, good and bad, for them to have a grasp on how to go about it.
- Story? Brad wasn't writing it anyway. Even if he did, tell me, hand to heart, that you expected, what? A Marcel Proust or Johann Goethe quality equivalent..? No, i dare you.. it's elves and ogres for crying out loud. 20+ years now.
So basically, it's a repeat of a done-to-death formula, albeit with a fresh paint. Gugubugos instead of goblins, enviromental/climate-related "biomes" instead of ""dynamic"" zones. You don't need to be a developer Einstein here, you just need to know what pitfalls to avoid, and where/how to focus your strengths, given your target audience. And they've shown that they -do- know their audience God help me.
It's also a game that despite its rocky (to put it kindly) beginning, has gained traction, angel investors (whatever that is), a loyal rabid fanbase (another must for MMOs) and some hell of a good press.
Put differently? It has for some time now become very, very, and legally, milkable.
And you honestly wonder what will happen now? Like, zero individual thinking?
It's going to go on, just as it has until now. That's what's going to happen.
As to whether the final outcome will be to your liking? With Brad gone? (and may he rest in peace).
Why, did someone come and sign a contract with you, that you'd love it due to Brad alone? For sure? Before you even played it? Really played it? 101 per cent, surer than taxes? No. It was just likely that you would. Because you liked what they sold you.. which was air mind you, as it wasn't even out when you decided that you'd likely enjoy it :)
It's still likely that you'll enjoy it now too. In some cases, it might even be more so. Brad for example wanted pets for all classes, must, all time out/summoned. Can you imagine? Just visualise a town square. Zoopantheon Online. Who says he didn't have more of such "great" ideas he was just intent on seeing realised? So maybe it's not necessarily bad after all. No one can tell.
If i were you, i'd take the chill pill, go and live your life. We're easily two years out and you're here fuming about a video game. That is two years out. Grip. On reality that is. Which is out there, not in front of your monitor.
(and living in the post-millennial era, i understand you may not enjoy reading this. But it might do you some good to realise just how you allow others to think of you. Most especially given that you chose this moment, when they've barely buried the man. I mean Jeesus, lol)
((The problem I have with what your saying is that it directly contradicts what the development team is adamently saying daily at this point, and you have no proof))
While I am an unashamed optimist trying hard, and mostly successfully. not to worry as time goes by, I do feel compelled to admit that zewtastic's concerns are far from irrational. Brad's passing may (or may not) impact efforts to raise more money from larger investors. Almost as bad - a larger investor may not feel as willing to give the current team carte blanch to develop the game as they wish. Whatever progress we see in how the game looks, it is accurate to say that pre-alpha has moved more slowly than even the more pessimistic people here ever expected and the end is not in sight. No one has said that pre-alpha has X steps left and then will end. No one has said that pre-alpha will end by a specific time.
What the development team says is, at best, phrased so as to take the most optimistic possible view of things without outright lying. How could it be otherwise? A "glass is half full" approach is far more likely to maintain interest and attract investors than a "glass is half empty" approach. It is equally honest I hasten to repeat - a matter of perspective and emphasis not lack of truthfulness.
Appropriately given the name of the game - Pantheon works much the same as religion to us. Barring access to internal VR information there is no proof that things are going well. There is no proof that things are going other than well. There are streams and other released information that very well may show concrete progress in developing the game. Or that may show concrete progress in developing streams. As with religion, belief among those of us who do not have detailed information is a matter of faith.
Without a time machine it is useless to focus on all the time that has gone by since the initial recruitment of pledges. Time that VR will readily admit has not been nearly as productive as it could have been. Complete with a restart of game development in the middle. We now *are* seeing improvements. We now *have* seen hirings (and people leaving - this is the way of the world). We now *have* seen them saying that they can make it to release without having to find a big-money investor - more investment will speed things up but they say it is not a sine qua non - absolutely essential.
I choose to take much of this at face value without proof - and believe. I have faith, brothers and sisters!
Alyonyah said:Im not saying your wrong, Im just saying theory crafting like the OP helps to do nothing but frustrate development with negative conspiracy theorys.
Really trying to make this simple. Feelings are contagious. Humans have a pack mentality. Thousands of proven examples of this everywhere you look. The devs and companies at large talk in these couched ways because it creates success. Its a PROVEN METHOD THAT WORKS! If there was even ONE dev who spoke like the "negative nancys" do in these forums the game would of likely died the day they had. This is the method thats proven NOT to work! The same laws apply to our comments in these forums though admittedly to a lesser extent; never-the-less it is ALL cumalative.
