disposalist said:My advice would be to yes, if you want to avoid disappointment, forgo the PvP desires and enjoy Pantheon PvE, since that is, indeed, the way it is "meant to be played".
Thank you are addressing my post. I obviously wouldn't ask if I didn't feel it was a feel concern of mine. Time will tell whether I choose to give up on PvP (probably not, unless the way it's implemented compromises the PvE - which is subjective I know).
I hear your opinion, but with caution - as you are a dirty PvE hater to the core :) ... maybe a little bias?
All joking aside, I totally respect the fact some people want to play MMOs with zero PvP. I want a good PvP experience in Pantheon, but rest assured that I want the true 'Pantheon experience' to be in my PvP game and I don't want VR to compromise a single element of the true PvE Pantheon experience to give that to me. For me it's not PvP or PvE - they aren't mutally exclusiive. PvP enhances my PvE experience and adds another layer of fun/difficulty/stress/excitment/teamwork etc. into the game.
People that just want to PvP and be "rank 1" and be rewarded for such are not the type of PvP'ers I want in this game. They can go play one of the many PvP centric games out there imo, and if the PvP server turns into that, I'll be back on a PvE server next login.
Alyonyah said:Walpurgis said:I think what would alleviate a lot of anxiety about PvP is if they have their own section in the forums. Not having any section about PvP seems like it isn't even being though of.
You raise a good point there. Might be dead on.
@Kilsin @VR
I think this makes a lot of sense and is a reasonable request. Can we do this?
Maybe a subfolder? ... I've wondered for a while now why there are no subfolders. Like for example, why not put "Keepings of Castigue" and "The Keeper's Vault" as subfolders under "Pantheon Lore" ... I think it would clean up the site a bit imo.
Alyonyah said:Walpurgis said:I think what would alleviate a lot of anxiety about PvP is if they have their own section in the forums. Not having any section about PvP seems like it isn't even being though of.
You raise a good point there. Might be dead on.
Nothing against another section in the Forums. But I question the thought that a couple of threads with a couple of concerned people warrants another section, expecially when PVP isn't even on the radar just yet. If they did that for every topic that came up that 10 or 20 people were concerned about the forums would be spread so thin many (in our PVP example) only those 10 or 20 people would see them. Solid PVE users wouldn't even be in that section to give there input/concerns.
Zorkon said:Nothing against another section in the Forums. But I question the thought that a couple of threads with a couple of concerned people warrants another section, expecially when PVP isn't even on the radar just yet. If they did that for every topic that came up that 10 or 20 people were concerned about the forums would be spread so thin many (in our PVP example) only those 10 or 20 people would see them. Solid PVE users wouldn't even be in that section to give there input/concerns.
I think it's a bit different than every other random subject, because there will be server(s) dedicated to this subject (PvP).
I know I tried to search through general discussion but could not find anyone discussing PvP... is that because no one cares to or because it's too hard to find the old threads?
Also, I don't want to make a specific PvP implementation post in general forums atm, becuase I know it's not something most people are interested in (most people will choose PvE servers), so it will be ignored / buried more quickly. Whereas, all these other topics concern all servers, so they warrant more discussion from the larger group. For example, the class forums move rather slowly, but those interested can easily find their class related threads and discuss. A PvP section would most likely fuction simarily.
Zorkon said:Nothing against another section in the Forums. But I question the thought that a couple of threads with a couple of concerned people warrants another section, expecially when PVP isn't even on the radar just yet. If they did that for every topic that came up that 10 or 20 people were concerned about the forums would be spread so thin many (in our PVP example) only those 10 or 20 people would see them. Solid PVE users wouldn't even be in that section to give there input/concerns.
While I sort of agree with you, I don't think creating a forum section for a game mechanic as potentially as important as pvp is a big ask. We know next to nothing about Crafting, Bards, the "Secret Class," and a few others yet they still have dedicated sections. This would allow the pvp community (no matter how small) to have a voice.
Simms59 said:Zorkon said:Nothing against another section in the Forums. But I question the thought that a couple of threads with a couple of concerned people warrants another section, expecially when PVP isn't even on the radar just yet. If they did that for every topic that came up that 10 or 20 people were concerned about the forums would be spread so thin many (in our PVP example) only those 10 or 20 people would see them. Solid PVE users wouldn't even be in that section to give there input/concerns.
While I sort of agree with you, I don't think creating a forum section for a game mechanic as potentially as important as pvp is a big ask. We know next to nothing about Crafting, Bards, the "Secret Class," and a few others yet they still have dedicated sections. This would allow the pvp community (no matter how small) to have a voice.
Excellent points. Im both a bard and not a pvper openly, and agree pvp should have its own forum. Whats the beef with a forum for pvp I dont get it? Clutter? Theres other ways of cleaning up the forums thats been mentioned elsewhere. This is such an important topic the game will have a whole server devoted to it at launch... confirmed Im pretty sure? I hear about pvp everywhere. Especially if stellarmind is out and about, that guy talks pvp 24/7. Theres far more than just a couple threads.... this part of the community is just starting to speak up. Im not swayed. Pretty certain the right thing is to let them have a forum.
We don't need a separate forum for PVP since this is not a PVP focused game, See Camelot unchained if you want PVP to be the main theme of your game, This is PVE focused, with a possible PVP server, and even that I think would be a mistake that leads to cry’s of unbalanced classes causing a cycle of Nerf's that destroys this PVE game.
HemlockReaper said:We don't need a separate forum for PVP since this is not a PVP focused game, See Camelot unchained if you want PVP to be the main theme of your game, This is PVE focused, with a possible PVP server, and even that I think would be a mistake that leads to cry’s of unbalanced classes causing a cycle of Nerf's that destroys this PVE game.
This is demonstrably false. It's been known for years that PVP will be balanced separately from PVE in this game. There is no chance that PVP affects the balance of PVE. It's also been stated that Pantheon will launch with at least 1 PVP server. There are plenty of people in this community who are excited about PVP and suggesting that they go find another game is extremely counterproductive. I agree with previous posters that PVP should get its own subsection on the new forum whenever it is released. PVP isn't a major priority right now but there is no reason that folks interested in PVP shouldn't have a section of the forum where they can enjoy focused dialogue for their preferred playstyle.
I am a PvE carebear, but I like PvP. However , whenever I see discussions on PvP brought up I feel the line that cannot be crossed is: Class balancing even in PvP.
Because it has happened for the sake of PvP that classes are balanced and that bleeds over and becomes the norm- just for a noisy few (see: droods).
In a PvP environment if a warrior suprises a caster, the caster will die. If the caster sees the warrior coming and the caster is scared, the warrior will be low in health unless it can close the distance but normally, the caster wil die, end of story. The drama that ensues? thats just fun. Especially if NPC's are also coded to protect those that have good faction within a certain radius.
oneADseven said:HemlockReaper said:We don't need a separate forum for PVP since this is not a PVP focused game, See Camelot unchained if you want PVP to be the main theme of your game, This is PVE focused, with a possible PVP server, and even that I think would be a mistake that leads to cry’s of unbalanced classes causing a cycle of Nerf's that destroys this PVE game.
This is demonstrably false. It's been known for years that PVP will be balanced separately from PVE in this game. There is no chance that PVP affects the balance of PVE. It's also been stated that Pantheon will launch with at least 1 PVP server. There are plenty of people in this community who are excited about PVP and suggesting that they go find another game is extremely counterproductive. I agree with previous posters that PVP should get its own subsection on the new forum whenever it is released. PVP isn't a major priority right now but there is no reason that folks interested in PVP shouldn't have a section of the forum where they can enjoy focused dialogue for their preferred playstyle.
Yes, I’ve seen those claims, but until it happens, its claims that not even Triple A studios have succeeded in, and Not every Game needs to be PVP anyway.
I personally would rather not have development time wasted on this, because I really don't see positive outcomes from its inclusion, especially when there are other game targeting that audience.
Manouk said:I am a PvE carebear, but I like PvP. However , whenever I see discussions on PvP brought up I feel the line that cannot be crossed is: Class balancing even in PvP.
As 1ad7 mentioned just above , VR has stated that balancing PvP will never have an impact on PvE... they are totally separate. My guess is that abilities will have separate effects whether in PvP or PvE and tuned accordingly.
HemlockReaper said:Yes, I’ve seen those claims, but until it happens, its claims that not even Triple A studios have succeeded in, and Not every Game needs to be PVP anyway.
I personally would rather not have development time wasted on this, because I really don't see positive outcomes from its inclusion, especially when there are other game targeting that audience.
So someone who has not played an MMO in ten years because they are all garbage, and has pledged a significant sum of money in order to help this game see production - years in advance - is not this games target audience? ... okay thanks , I guess I'll go find another game.
I have seen no "PvP person" ask for PvP to be a priority. PvP will have zero affect on PvE servers. Hell it won't even affect PvE balance on PvP servers either. PvP is a small facet of the game that I hope to enjoy in addition to everything else in the game. PvP will not define Pantheon on a PvP server - Pantheon will define Pantheon.
If you had a dog named Baxter, I'd like to kick him off a bridge right about now. I'll leave my disappointment at that.
HemlockReaper said:We don't need a separate forum for PVP since this is not a PVP focused game, See Camelot unchained if you want PVP to be the main theme of your game, This is PVE focused, with a possible PVP server, and even that I think would be a mistake that leads to cry’s of unbalanced classes causing a cycle of Nerf's that destroys this PVE game.
Telling people they should look at another game because it doesn't fit your exact needs is counterproductive. I don't want to play CU because the PVE component isn't a focus. I want to relive my days on Rallos and Tallon Zek, and VR would be stupid to ignore a growing playerbase. EQ2 ignored pvp and launched without it and because of this (and other things) WoW crushed it. You can stay on your blue server and have fun, but don't presume to ruin the time that others want.
Simms59 said:HemlockReaper said:We don't need a separate forum for PVP since this is not a PVP focused game, See Camelot unchained if you want PVP to be the main theme of your game, This is PVE focused, with a possible PVP server, and even that I think would be a mistake that leads to cry’s of unbalanced classes causing a cycle of Nerf's that destroys this PVE game.
Telling people they should look at another game because it doesn't fit your exact needs is counterproductive. I don't want to play CU because the PVE component isn't a focus. I want to relive my days on Rallos and Tallon Zek, and VR would be stupid to ignore a growing playerbase. EQ2 ignored pvp and launched without it and because of this (and other things) WoW crushed it. You can stay on your blue server and have fun, but don't presume to ruin the time that others want.
No game will fill the every need for every player, it only makes sense to look for a PVP based game if you like PVP, instead of tagging PVP onto a PVE focused game, and I’m NOT telling anyone they have to go play another game, I’m saying there IS a game better suited for PVP’ers.
Kass said:Hell it won't even affect PvE balance on PvP servers either.
I'm not 100% sure how they will handle it but I think PVE balance may be affected on PVP servers. My understanding is that PVP servers will be balanced separately from PVE servers. If it is determined that paladins need to have their healing reduced because they are OP in PVP, that could have an impact on the PVE aspect of a PVP server. Either way, the narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect. I understand why people tend to get a bit defensive when it comes to protecting PVE in Pantheon but this stuff was settled a long time ago.
It doesn't require an AAA studio to balance classes a little differently on a PVP server. Some of these comments reinforce why it would be ideal to have a separate PVP section on this forum. It's impossible to have any sort of fun/meaningful dialogue without others chiming in and wanting to kill the discussion to protect their style of play. If this could have been posted in a dedicated PVP subsection it's highly unlikely that PVE focused players would even bother reading the thread ... which means it wouldn't get derailed by people who are worried about things that aren't even going to happen.
oneADseven said:Kass said:Hell it won't even affect PvE balance on PvP servers either.
I'm not 100% sure how they will handle it but I think PVE balance may be affected on PVP servers. My understanding is that PVP servers will be balanced separately from PVE servers. If it is determined that paladins need to have their healing reduced because they are OP in PVP, that could have an impact on the PVE aspect of a PVP server. Either way, the narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect.
From a WoW prespective many nerfs that came to many classes were highly influenced from a PvP reasoning, and not becuase they were overly powerful from a PvE reason. So, I'm not saying that you think That PvP hasn't ruined an ability or a certain gameplay becuase of an ability is incorrect, but i can say from my prespective it absolutely has. I can think of a ton of nerfs in BC and WotLK alone that was highly influenced from PvP reasoning and had nothing to do with PvE, PvE balancing is extremely easy:
From a PvE standpoint all you really need to know is if it is working as intended and that it isn't overly strong or weak to prevent a certain gameplay you are trying to achieve within a certain class, in a nutshell anyway.
From a PvP prespective your trying to essentially trying to have all classes be quite powerful but have weaknesses and strengths to each other, which is basically impossible but they try anyway, and needs to laods of nerfs, buffs, bringing new play styles due to those buffs, and nerfs and having to switch the abiltiies you priotize becuae they could do killed an abiltity to where you don't want to use it in your rotation becuase thanks to a PvP reasoning now it isn't valid for PvE anymore and now you have to use another ability until they nerf/buff another ability and than you have to relearn an entire different rotation to use that one.
And it goes round and round endlessly into madness, so if you think: "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." is your opinoin and I'm not going to say your completely wrong, but i can say from my experience that PvP has been nothing short of a nightmare for PvE with all its nerfs/buffs to try to bring certain classes in line to other classes and changing rotations completely for many classes all to due to trying to satisfy PvPers.
oneADseven said:
I'm not 100% sure how they will handle it but I think PVE balance may be affected on PVP servers. My understanding is that PVP servers will be balanced separately from PVE servers. If it is determined that paladins need to have their healing reduced because they are OP in PVP, that could have an impact on the PVE aspect of a PVP server. Either way, the narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect. I understand why people tend to get a bit defensive when it comes to protecting PVE in Pantheon but this stuff was settled a long time ago.
The only narrative here is people White knighting an issue. Cries for nerfs almost always come out of PvP'ers, those Nerf's generally ruin the PVE experience.
Maybe this game will be different, Maybe, But we don't know that just because THEY says it will, lots of game developers claim things they end up not achieving for whatever reason.
I’d rather not chance it
oneADseven said:It doesn't require an AAA studio to balance classes a little differently on a PVP server. Some of these comments reinforce why it would be ideal to have a separate PVP section on this forum. It's impossible to have any sort of fun/meaningful dialogue without others chiming in and wanting to kill the discussion to protect their style of play. If this could have been posted in a dedicated PVP subsection it's highly unlikely that PVE focused players would even bother reading the thread ... which means it wouldn't get derailed by people who are worried about things that aren't even going to happen.
We don't need bubbles of protection, if you cant articulate your reasons in a discussion for your point of view, thats not someone derailing anything, that you failing.
Riahuf22 said:And it goes round and round endlessly into madness, so if you think: "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." is your opinoin and I'm not going to say your completely wrong, but i can say from my experience that PvP has been nothing short of a nightmare for PvE with all its nerfs/buffs to try to bring certain classes in line to other classes and changing rotations completely for many classes all to due to trying to satisfy PvPers.
HemlockReaper said:The only narrative here is people White knighting an issue. Cries for nerfs almost always come out of PvP'ers, those Nerf's generally ruin the PVE experience.
Maybe this game will be different, Maybe, But we don't know that just because THEY says it will, lots of game developers claim things they end up not achieving for whatever reason.
I’d rather not chance it
From the FAQ:
"The issue with balance and PvP vs PvE is not one that is that difficult to solve but it does require planning: you just use different formulas and data - you don't cross your streams. That way, if we need to make Paladins in PvE more powerful, we can do that without disrupting PvP balance. And vice versa."
As mentioned above, the issue that several people have gone on about in this thread is "not difficult to solve." It seems like a very simple/logical solution to me so again, the narrative that PVP players and their "cries for nerfs" will ruin PVE gameplay is demonstrably false. The main issue I have with this thread is when people start telling others that they should check out other games that are more PVP focused and present made-up problems as some sort of inevitable disaster that is going to ruin PVE here. It's unnecessary fearmongering that fragments the community.
oneADseven said:Riahuf22 said:And it goes round and round endlessly into madness, so if you think: "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." is your opinoin and I'm not going to say your completely wrong, but i can say from my experience that PvP has been nothing short of a nightmare for PvE with all its nerfs/buffs to try to bring certain classes in line to other classes and changing rotations completely for many classes all to due to trying to satisfy PvPers.
HemlockReaper said:The only narrative here is people White knighting an issue. Cries for nerfs almost always come out of PvP'ers, those Nerf's generally ruin the PVE experience.
Maybe this game will be different, Maybe, But we don't know that just because THEY says it will, lots of game developers claim things they end up not achieving for whatever reason.
I’d rather not chance it
From the FAQ:
"The issue with balance and PvP vs PvE is not one that is that difficult to solve but it does require planning: you just use different formulas and data - you don't cross your streams. That way, if we need to make Paladins in PvE more powerful, we can do that without disrupting PvP balance. And vice versa."
As mentioned above, the issue that several people have gone on about in this thread is "not difficult to solve." It seems like a very simple/logical solution to me so again, the narrative that PVP players and their "cries for nerfs" will ruin PVE gameplay is demonstrably false.
I already mentioned this 1AD7 that PvE, and PvP servers weren't going to be connected, so why you adding me to this is beyond me, shot even Kass who you qouted mentioned it, I was referring to your statement of PvP hurting PvE is incorrect in my opinion, which i was saying ti does, which is why the Devs are seperating them.
@oneADseven @Riahuf22
With respect to my
"Hell it won't even affect PvE balance on PvP servers either."
I may have been a bit naive, and I usually try to avoid talking in absolutes but I was a little upset there for a moment.
I 100% believe VR can balance PvE and not let anything going on in the PvP server influence or bleed over into PvE. This is something they mentioned years ago, and I can only assume they have coded / designed spells in abilities to account for being able to do that. If not, then IDK how they might plan on separating that.
As for my comment, why can't they accomplish this? I don't understand why they couldn't balance them both separately, even on a PvP server. For example, If healers heals are too OP in PvP, why can't they just make them do X% less healing on a target engaged in PvP combat while keeping their heal in PvE combat the same? Or if CC is too strong for PvP reduce it by X% or increase the chance to break it. Is this something that is beyond 2019 technology? - serious question cause I'm ignorant to these sort of things.
Furthermore, maybe I'm a minority, but I don't care if a few classes are overpowered or underpowered in PvP. I'm not looking for anything close to a competitive PvP arena / tournament style experience. As I stated before, I personally want ZERO incentives for engaging in PvP and subsequently zero rewards... I'm starting to think I like to PvP in a very different way than many people assume all PvPers want to.
Lastly, if PvP greatly affects the intended PvE balance on PvP servers, then I for one will not play on a PvP server. Hopefully VR can solve this issue.
Kass said:@oneADseven @Riahuf22
With respect to my "Hell it won't even affect PvE balance on PvP servers either." I may have been a bit naive, and I usually try to avoid talking in absolutes but I was a little upset there for a moment.
I 100% believe VR can balance PvE and not let anything going on in the PvP server influence or bleed over into PvE. This is something they mentioned years ago, and I can only assume they have coded / designed spells in abilities to account for being able to do that. If not, then IDK how they might plan on separating that.
As for my comment, why can't they accomplish this? I don't understand why they couldn't balance them both separately, even on a PvP server. For example, If healers heals are too OP in PvP, why can't they just make them do X% less healing on a target engaged in PvP combat? Or if CC is too strong for PvP reduce it by X% or increase the chance to break it. Is this something that is beyond 2019 technology? - serious question cause I'm ignorant to these sort of things.
Furthermore, maybe I'm a minority, but I don't care if a few classes are overpowered or underpowered in PvP. I'm not looking for anything close to a competitive PvP arena / tournament style experience. As I stated before, I personally want ZERO incentives for engaging in PvP and subsequently zero rewards... I'm starting to think I like to PvP in a very different way than many people assume all PvPers want to.
Lastly, if PvP greatly affects the intended PvE balance on PvP servers, then I for one will not play on a PvP server. Hopefully VR can solve this issue.
Honestly Kass i think they are trying to accomplish this completely, I think they want PvE to influence PvE changes, simply just that simple, if it is to weak, buff it, if it is making gameplay to easy, or not requiring you to use another ability becuase of how powerful it is regardless of any situation, than nerf it. in a nutshell that pretty much how it should be.
In PvP is a ton trickier as i mentioned for many reasons, I'm sure even though they don't want prefect balance you don't want to see how the Rogues/SPriest were in single combat of WoW, it was great for them but if a Rogue and kill a highly Skilled Warrior in PvP with a level 1 dagger and using his abiltiies correctly to defeat him, I'm sure this is something people don't want unless lie i said you are this class, so everything keeps essentially getting balanced endlessly, which is fine for the PvPers they will see their classes keep on getting buffs/nerfs and at times they will be happy/mad but at least in the PvP world certain classes will rise and fall and it won't always remain the same.
I'm not trying to discourage you from playing on a PvP server, i would never do that, but i do think they are seperating them for a reason.
And yes i do think that PvP on the PvP servers will affect the way you play your game from a PvE prespective, simply becuase you would be on a PvP server, I know that might not be what you want to hear, but i think that would be the truth, and what you want to do with that is completely up to you.
Riahuf22 said:I already mentioned this 1AD7 that PvE, and PvP servers weren't going to be connected, so why you adding me to this is beyond me, shot even Kass who you qouted mentioned it, I was referring to your statement of PvP hurting PvE is incorrect in my opinion, which i was saying ti does, which is why the Devs are seperating them.
I mentioned it because I was trying to diffuse the narrative that PVP would affect PVE in Pantheon. You responded to me and felt compelled to share your personal experience where PVP did, in fact, have a negative impact on PVE in WoW:
Riahuf22 said:From a WoW prespective many nerfs that came to many classes were highly influenced from a PvP reasoning, and not becuase they were overly powerful from a PvE reason. So, I'm not saying that you think That PvP hasn't ruined an ability or a certain gameplay becuase of an ability is incorrect, but i can say from my prespective it absolutely has.
You also said that my comment "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." was just an opinion:
Riahuf22 said:And it goes round and round endlessly into madness, so if you think: "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." is your opinoin and I'm not going to say your completely wrong, but i can say from my experience that PvP has been nothing short of a nightmare for PvE with all its nerfs/buffs to try to bring certain classes in line to other classes and changing rotations completely for many classes all to due to trying to satisfy PvPers.
The entirety of my post was based around Pantheon and how the "issue" in question would be solved here. Looking back to page 1, you did mention that the servers will be separate. I wasn't aware of that post until now but either way, your most recent message seemed to challenge the validity of my statement that PVE Servers (In Pantheon) wouldn't be affected by PVP balance. Looking at it now, it seems that you misinterpreted what I was talking about and that our recent exchange was just a misunderstanding of context. You are 100% correct that PVP has had a negative impact on PVE in other games, particularly WoW.
Riahuf22 said:In PvP is a ton trickier as i mentioned for many reasons, I'm sure even though they don't want prefect balance you don't want to see how the Rogues/SPriest were in single combat of WoW, it was great for them but if a Rogue and kill a highly Skilled Warrior in PvP with a level 1 dagger and using his abiltiies correctly to defeat him, I'm sure this is something people don't want unless lie i said you are this class, so everything keeps essentially getting balanced endlessly, which is fine for the PvPers they will see their classes keep on getting buffs/nerfs and at times they will be happy/mad but at least in the PvP world certain classes will rise and fall and it won't always remain the same.
Ya I think we're on the same page with this. My point is, not everyone has to be happy - at the same time. It doens't need to be perfectly balanced to be "good" PvP.
That being said, no, I do not want a class that can 1v1 any class with impunity / zero counterplay. But, if rogues > warriors because class design, then it is what it is imo, as long as other classes > rogue.
oneADseven said:Riahuf22 said:I already mentioned this 1AD7 that PvE, and PvP servers weren't going to be connected, so why you adding me to this is beyond me, shot even Kass who you qouted mentioned it, I was referring to your statement of PvP hurting PvE is incorrect in my opinion, which i was saying ti does, which is why the Devs are seperating them.
I mentioned it because I was trying to diffuse the narrative that PVP would affect PVE in Pantheon. You responded to me and felt compelled to share your personal experience where PVP did, in fact, have a negative impact on PVE in WoW:
Riahuf22 said:From a WoW prespective many nerfs that came to many classes were highly influenced from a PvP reasoning, and not becuase they were overly powerful from a PvE reason. So, I'm not saying that you think That PvP hasn't ruined an ability or a certain gameplay becuase of an ability is incorrect, but i can say from my prespective it absolutely has.
You also said that my comment "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." was just an opinion:
Riahuf22 said:And it goes round and round endlessly into madness, so if you think: "The narrative that PVP players can/will ruin gameplay on PVE servers is absolutely incorrect." is your opinoin and I'm not going to say your completely wrong, but i can say from my experience that PvP has been nothing short of a nightmare for PvE with all its nerfs/buffs to try to bring certain classes in line to other classes and changing rotations completely for many classes all to due to trying to satisfy PvPers.
The entirety of my post was based around Pantheon and how the "issue" in question would be solved here. Looking back to page 1, you did mention that the servers will be separate. I wasn't aware of that post until now but either way, your most recent message seemed to challenge the validity of my statement that PVE Servers (In Pantheon) wouldn't be affected by PVP balance. Looking at it now, it seems that you misinterpreted what I was talking about and that our recent exchange was just a misunderstanding of context. You are 100% correct that PVP has had a negative impact on PVE in other games, particularly WoW.
I apologize for the miscommunication than, I guess I was mistaken what your post meant than, I thought you were saying simply that PvP has not affect PvE before, not that becuase VR is seperating the two that PvP would not affect PvE. So i guess i simply just jumped the gun and thought you were saying something else entirely, again my bad.