Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

/ignore revisited

    • 1399 posts
    November 15, 2019 8:12 AM PST

    So in my experience the /ignore command stops all communication from the ignored.

    No general chat, private mail, say, etc... stops all text.

    What if it went a step further and eliminated the ignored players model? I would really like player collision to be a thing, as running through a crowd of players like they weren't even there is really emerson breaking, but there are  legitimate concerns of players blocking doorways and other such things.

    /ignore door blocking Ogre, "problem solved"

    /ignore mailbox blocking guy with his elephant mount "problem solved"

    What if there were different levels maybe.

    /ignore 1 "ignored"  just text level ignore

    /ignore 2 "ignored" text and transparent  (pass through) model

    /ignore 3 "ignored" text and model GONE

     

    Could /ignore be improved to help with toxic players and griefers?  How?

    • 139 posts
    November 15, 2019 8:24 AM PST

    MMORPGs are so dense in learning how to do anything already, its a real pain as a newbie to work out to try to "/ignore 2  Zorkon" if he's blocking me in the newbie zone. 

     

    • 1247 posts
    November 15, 2019 8:27 AM PST

    Door blocking Ogre <3

    • 1921 posts
    November 15, 2019 8:39 AM PST

    Zorkon said: ... /ignore 3 "ignored" text and model GONE

    Could /ignore be improved to help with toxic players and griefers?  How?

    By making /ignore 3 the default, additing emotes/animations to the list, and never allowing players to block / clip
    I have long been a proponent of: once someone is on ignore, you don't need to see or hear them, ever again.  Including all animations, emotes, or any other pet, text, graphic, or visual that can be caused by or emitted from that character.

    The one situation where it might be desirable to have an exception is if you end up grouped with someone on ignore (has happened to me), then you'll need to see their position & animations while they're in combat.  Otherwise, you don't see anything except their position.  No custom emotes.  No custom animations, no jumping, nothing.  The exact minimum required for you to assess that they're performing their role, and nothing more.

    Regarding blocking or not: I understand the desire, but I have personally died to AFK ogres sitting at the lguk dead side zone line (on both sides).  No thank you, I will not have another. :)
    I played Warhammer Online, and saw the attempt there to have players block, strategically, for PvP.  It was rarely, if ever, successfully used, even there.  Even so, it's possible to have rules such that players only block while in a duel, arena, or on PvP servers.  Everywhere else?  I expect I can walk straight through you at any time, "immersion" be damned.

    • 521 posts
    November 15, 2019 9:15 AM PST

    It would make more sense to just have a command that Temporarily ( a few seconds) makes you non-collision with other players

    • 1428 posts
    November 15, 2019 9:18 AM PST

    easy solution to dealing with toxic players and griefers:  pvp.  put their face into the ground.

     

    ignore 2 is no good.  that breaks collision mechanics and that affects intended game physics.

     

    ignore 3 is going to be worse for the ignorer.  imagine you're out grinding and someone invisible is following and start's killing your mobs.

     

    thinking about it more this is really bad for pvp.

    i'm against this system.

    • 2419 posts
    November 15, 2019 9:22 AM PST

    Ok, so lets say they implement some version of /ignore that removes the ignored character's player model.  WTF are you going to do when you're in an area, say a dungeon, and you happen across the same spot of the ignored player.  How will you know what mobs that person is fighting? Or might be pulling?  Or any number of other things that could impact you in some way?  If I were a monk I'd love to be on that level of /ignore because training the person who ignored me would be stupidly easy.  You'd never know it was me doing it. I could do far more to torment you with that level of /ignore than I ever could without it. 

  • November 15, 2019 9:51 AM PST
    So okay, maybe their suggestions aren't perfect, but it does highlight the fact that there are players who accidentally or willingly want to ruin the game for others, and very few options for dealing with them.
    • 1921 posts
    November 15, 2019 9:51 AM PST

    It was discussed in the past, but you could make it so that they only appear while in combat (grouped with you or not), or they only disappear when near you, or they become more transparent as they become closer.  Lots of options.

    You could also make the model generic, and the player tag 'Player' , and make them visible with respect to motion, but emote animations don't play.
    Another option would be to only apply them in town regions/areas, but honestly, I like the transparency < - > distance idea.

    • 1315 posts
    November 15, 2019 9:57 AM PST

    @vjek

    I was trying to come up with some way to turn ignored players into generic "Dougs" that have the name Ignored Player and no colision detection.  Its not great but its something.

    • 1399 posts
    November 15, 2019 10:03 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    Ok, so lets say they implement some version of /ignore that removes the ignored character's player model.  WTF are you going to do when you're in an area, say a dungeon, and you happen across the same spot of the ignored player.  How will you know what mobs that person is fighting? Or might be pulling?  Or any number of other things that could impact you in some way?  If I were a monk I'd love to be on that level of /ignore because training the person who ignored me would be stupidly easy.  You'd never know it was me doing it. I could do far more to torment you with that level of /ignore than I ever could without it. 

    I'm just fishing for ideas what could be done.  

    Zorkon said: Could /ignore be improved to help with toxic players and griefers?  How? 

    So could it be revised or added too in order to solve this problem you point out... say the Mobs agroed on the ignored also dissappear? Agro can't transfer off of an ignored player?

     

    Just fishing for some brainstorming on can the ignore function be improved or expanded? 


    This post was edited by Zorkon at November 15, 2019 8:24 PM PST
    • 1921 posts
    November 15, 2019 10:03 AM PST

    Yeah, and it doesn't have to be always on.  Players could toggle it, or have it optional for all /ignores, or only for particular people /ignored,  if they want.  It's such a small/quick feature, and very easy to tune.

    • 1428 posts
    November 15, 2019 10:06 AM PST

    Trasak said:

    @vjek

    I was trying to come up with some way to turn ignored players into generic "Dougs" that have the name Ignored Player and no colision detection.  Its not great but its something.

    i could use dispolist(not throwing you under the bus.  your piont is very valid) take on toggle appearance with this ignore system.  if i block a mailbox i should be able to.  what if rping as a mailbox troll and you have to pay a tax to me to use the mailbox?  this violates my choice to be a mailbox pirate(this is an extreme example and satire).  easy solution would be just to kill me.  

    • 1399 posts
    November 15, 2019 10:52 AM PST

    stellarmind said:

    Trasak said:

    @vjek

    I was trying to come up with some way to turn ignored players into generic "Dougs" that have the name Ignored Player and no colision detection.  Its not great but its something.

    i could use dispolist(not throwing you under the bus.  your piont is very valid) take on toggle appearance with this ignore system.  if i block a mailbox i should be able to.  what if rping as a mailbox troll and you have to pay a tax to me to use the mailbox?  this violates my choice to be a mailbox pirate(this is an extreme example and satire).  easy solution would be just to kill me.  

    You make very good points for PVP servers. All the same reasons I've always considered and will be at least attempting to main on a pvp server when pantheon is released.

    All I really see it to be relevant to this thread is with pvp it's a "we'll take care of it ourselves thank you!" Frame of mind and thats not an unwelcome view and a very valuable point. On a pvp server such mechanics aren't necessary. 

    • 1428 posts
    November 15, 2019 11:09 AM PST

    Zorkon said:

    You make very good points for PVP servers. All the same reasons I've always considered and will be at least attempting to main on a pvp server when pantheon is released.

    All I really see it to be relevant to this thread is with pvp it's a "we'll take care of it ourselves thank you!" Frame of mind and thats not an unwelcome view and a very valuable point. On a pvp server such mechanics aren't necessary. 

     

    it's applicable to a pve.  weird things start happening when there is ignore collision where there is suppose to be collision(i'm not coder just based on experience as a gamer).  i can think of some interesting exploits already.  (of course this is speculation)

    example:

    ignore player collision.  walk through somebody.  turn on collision.  boom go thru walls. go thru floors.  jump thru ceilings.  i've already said the pve implication of turning an ignored player invisible.  there's too many ways to abuse the suggested system.  apologize if i'm not offering solutions, i tend to think about both sides of a system.


    This post was edited by NoJuiceViscosity at November 15, 2019 11:14 AM PST
    • 145 posts
    November 15, 2019 11:10 AM PST
    You have the ability to ignore someone or something without a command to do so in one ear out the other or in this case read and ignore or ya know have an ignore command either way works
    • 1428 posts
    November 15, 2019 11:23 AM PST

    stonetothebone85 said: You have the ability to ignore someone or something without a command to do so in one ear out the other or in this case read and ignore or ya know have an ignore command either way works

    it's kind of like phasing techology.  if i phase through somebody, then rematerialize inside another player, the coding has to push either the phaser in a direction or push the phased in another direction.  now u can code it where both push away. or prioritize where if i'm next to a wall to have a collision heirarchy, but because we are dealing with latency, you can mess up the hierarchy if you spam it quick enough.

     

    next step would be introduce a 'cooldown' to ignore.  i dunno 5 secs?  then you could probably get it to work.  but this can still affect some things in which passages only can occur with players walking in a back to back line.

     

    it could be used to exploit an encounter that has narrow positional decisions.


    This post was edited by NoJuiceViscosity at November 15, 2019 11:26 AM PST
    • 159 posts
    November 15, 2019 12:22 PM PST

    Maybe learn how to socialize and not demand that the developers create what would equivalate to a safe space. If you can't socialize or keep your sanity when confronted with a difficult person. Maybe MMO's are not for you.  I'm not even getting into the coding problems or the exploits that would come from this. I don't even consider this to be a legitimate concern. I don't like this person /ignore. This person doesn't agree with me /ignore. I hate Gnomes /ignore. When does it stop?  Go play WoW or any of the other MMO's out today if you want the developers to hold your hand.

     

    Maybe you have been spoiled by the latest MMO's from say the last 15+ years. Turn off the television and stop filling your head with poison from people that have an agenda and learn how to talk to people again vs talking at them through some form of social media. EQ didn't have any of this reversions to /ignore that keep getting brought up in many post under many different titels and it was a massive success with no safe places. 

     

    I guarantee you that many people will put me on ignore, because I don't play into this hold my hand political correctness frame of mind. I'll tell you straight up to get a backbone. All the snowflakes will get offended.  I know to a lot of you I'm a "toxic" person because I'm blunt and to the point and I don't agree with the colorbook, safeplace frame of thought.  Lets push the delevopers to create another 50+ system/ commands in game that are not necessary just to make the snowflakes happy. Now nobody wants to play Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. Happy?

    • 1399 posts
    November 15, 2019 12:33 PM PST

    Vander said:

    Maybe learn how to socialize and not demand that the developers create what would equivalate to a safe space. If you can't socialize or keep your sanity when confronted with a difficult person. Maybe MMO's are not for you.  I'm not even getting into the coding problems or the exploits that would come from this. I don't even consider this to be a legitimate concern. I don't like this person /ignore. This person doesn't agree with me /ignore. I hate Gnomes /ignore. When does it stop?  Go play WoW or any of the other MMO's out today if you want the developers to hold your hand.

     

    Maybe you have been spoiled by the latest MMO's from say the last 15+ years. Turn off the television and stop filling your head with poison from people that have an agenda and learn how to talk to people again vs talking at them through some form of social media. EQ didn't have any of this reversions to /ignore that keep getting brought up in many post under many different titels and it was a massive success with no safe places. 

     

    I guarantee you that many people will put me on ignore, because I don't play into this hold my hand political correctness frame of mind. I'll tell you straight up to get a backbone. All the snowflakes will get offended.  I know to a lot of you I'm a "toxic" person because I'm blunt and to the point and I don't agree with the colorbook, safeplace frame of thought.  Lets push the delevopers to create another 50+ system/ commands in game that are not necessary just to make the snowflakes happy. Now nobody wants to play Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. Happy?

    Lol,

    Has somebody been watching impeachment hearings this morning?

    • 520 posts
    November 15, 2019 12:51 PM PST

    AFAIK we have no clue yet if there will be player vs player transparancy (being able to block doors and such - which have been a major issue in some games) anyway - if that was a case then yea - /gnore 2 would be hery much appreciated. /ignore 3 (as already stated) would be more of a hinderance than enything else. /ignore 1 is imo a must though - i can menage ass*oles - i've developed quite a resistance for them from RL, but spammers preventing to even see other messages are a real drag.

    • 81 posts
    November 15, 2019 3:55 PM PST

    Do we really need to go this far ?

    Pantheon is going to be a game about socialization.  Get in a guild and if someone is a real jerk,  let your friends know.

    If it happens enough you can boycott the person or whatever,  lets not ask the devs to do everything for us.  Please.

    • 3852 posts
    November 15, 2019 4:42 PM PST

    I very much hope that there will be no colliding between players. While I understand the logic - to me this is *far* outwieghed by the opportunities for griefing.

    I do not think that making someone invisible to you is likely to end well. Someone invisible can quite likely be far more annoying and inconvenient than if you at least know where they are.

    If someone is being annoying in chat none of this helps. If someone is being intentionally rude and annoying repeatedly under the code of conduct that should be grounds for a suspension and if repeated a permanent ban of the account.

    I doubt if it will be anywhere near the issue in Pantheon as in current games - just having a subscription model winnows out the great majority of 10 year olds and trolls. 

    • 1428 posts
    November 16, 2019 9:33 AM PST

    dorotea said:

    I very much hope that there will be no colliding between players. While I understand the logic - to me this is *far* outwieghed by the opportunities for griefing.

    I do not think that making someone invisible to you is likely to end well. Someone invisible can quite likely be far more annoying and inconvenient than if you at least know where they are.

    If someone is being annoying in chat none of this helps. If someone is being intentionally rude and annoying repeatedly under the code of conduct that should be grounds for a suspension and if repeated a permanent ban of the account.

    I doubt if it will be anywhere near the issue in Pantheon as in current games - just having a subscription model winnows out the great majority of 10 year olds and trolls. 

    collision is only a problem for pve players.  try blocking players from reaching the mailbox on a pvp server.  the griefer is going to get camped and probably ridiculed to a point where the individual will think a bit more before trolling.

     

    honestly though, there is so much more interactiveness with collision.  the potential to play around with the enviroment is fantastic.  even visually, i never really liked 40 people standing on top of each other.  there's is another depth of play when spacing comes into play.  definitely more interesting.  imagine playing chess when you can stack all the pieces in one square >.>

    • 1399 posts
    November 16, 2019 12:53 PM PST

    stellarmind said:

    dorotea said:

    I very much hope that there will be no colliding between players. While I understand the logic - to me this is *far* outwieghed by the opportunities for griefing.

    I do not think that making someone invisible to you is likely to end well. Someone invisible can quite likely be far more annoying and inconvenient than if you at least know where they are.

    If someone is being annoying in chat none of this helps. If someone is being intentionally rude and annoying repeatedly under the code of conduct that should be grounds for a suspension and if repeated a permanent ban of the account.

    I doubt if it will be anywhere near the issue in Pantheon as in current games - just having a subscription model winnows out the great majority of 10 year olds and trolls. 

    collision is only a problem for pve players.  try blocking players from reaching the mailbox on a pvp server.  the griefer is going to get camped and probably ridiculed to a point where the individual will think a bit more before trolling.

     

    honestly though, there is so much more interactiveness with collision.  the potential to play around with the enviroment is fantastic.  even visually, i never really liked 40 people standing on top of each other.  there's is another depth of play when spacing comes into play.  definitely more interesting.  imagine playing chess when you can stack all the pieces in one square >.>

    exactly, if you can run right through the other players are they even really there? Doesn't "feel" like it 

     

    I do understand the problems with the player on ignore only being invisible (the model could be invisible to YOU but they can still interact in the world)  I really don't know how that could be worked out.. Trains intentional or otherwise I wouldn’t worry about... yes it would happen but in the real world there is always the chance when in the wilderness of being jumped by a pack of wolves or trampled by a heard of elephants or whatever... Trains by an invisible player sounds to me like Crazy Good AI. Be on your toes and ready for it “Bring Friends”

    But the whole Mobs fighting nobody (invisible ignored player). I suppose they could also disappear once they agro on the ignored player... but then you have disappearing mobs... that’s immersion breaking, Maybe while fighting they would appear, similar to a Rouge and stealth.

    And yes Stellar, for a PVP that wouldn’t work. All these thoughts are for PVE only, PVP doesn’t have these kinds of problems.

     

     

     

    • 1921 posts
    November 16, 2019 1:49 PM PST

    Zorkon said: ... I do understand the problems with the player on ignore only being invisible (the model could be invisible to YOU but they can still interact in the world)  I really don't know how that could be worked out..
    Don't make them invisible unless it's a city zone. Or, if you prefer, only make them invisible in city zones. 
    And/Or
    Always show them if they're on the hate list of any creature and/or in combat.
    And/Or
    Instead, or outside of city zones, make them a generic model with no name, or "Ignored Player" as their name, and simply don't play any custom emotes from them, for you.  Same as muting text emotes.
    One potential issue is that just muting someone the way you did in EQ1 didn't prevent the muted from causing you some difficulty. 
    Ignored players in many games can stand in front of you so that every action selects them instead of your targets.  If they were invisible, then they can't do that.
    Additionally, then, if they were unselectable, optionally, that might be positive.

    Phasing is going to apparently have creatures and/or players fighting invisible opponents, so... meh?  If either or both of them are invisible with Phasing anyway.. does having /ignore, optionally, make those players invisible in non-combat areas really matter?  Ultimately, if someone is hide/snuck and/or invisible and out-of-combat, and you don't have see-invis, it's the same result in the end, yet... that's ok.

    So yeah, if invisibility isn't desired, just make them a generic model with no emote animations,  "Ignored Player' as their name, and optionally at the muting players choice, make them unselectable, so they can't interfere with target selection.