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How will Pantheon make Melee combat interesting?

    • 13 posts
    November 13, 2019 7:14 AM PST

    This topic has been something that's been on my mind since I say the One word: Melee thread and my response to it.

    I've almost always been a caster in every MMO I've played from Enchanter as my first class of any MMO in EQ classic onwards. I've always found melee combat in particular rather dull since most of your time is spent auto attacking. I'm really hoping that Pantheon will make melee combat interesting-- not that I will be a melee class-- but I'm all for making things interesting and even going back to play EQ (p1999) the combat is kind of dull to watch a lot of the times. The only MMO that I've actually seen engaging melee in is Final Fantasy XI with its skill chain system. It's the only MMO I've played that made melee combat actually enjoyable and engaging to me... setting up a skill chain for your mage to magic burst on. It was a simple part of the game and not everyone liked it, but I felt that if the system were done again with some more thought it could really flourish. Keeping a variety of weapons relevant, giving each physical DPS class a way to interact with each other and the casters to speed up your kills.

    While I would personally love to see this kind of a system in Pantheon, I know that it probably wouldn't happen... but it got me wondering... how will Pantheon make melee combat more interesting than auto attacking and maybe pressing a few skills like taunt/kick? Sure classes may have their own thing, but I thought the coordination of melee skills to make a skill chain was what made it engaging and fun in FFXI even if 99.95% of all groups used a Distortion chain for most of the time I played at least =p

    I think part of me wants this more because while I usually play a healer or a chanter, I may roll a wizard this time around though I have been considering Druid or Shaman as well. Anyway... what do you guys think/know about how Pantheon will make melee more interesting?

    • 1653 posts
    November 13, 2019 10:01 AM PST

    Souldrake said:

    This topic has been something that's been on my mind since I say the One word: Melee thread and my response to it.

    I've almost always been a caster in every MMO I've played from Enchanter as my first class of any MMO in EQ classic onwards. I've always found melee combat in particular rather dull since most of your time is spent auto attacking. I'm really hoping that Pantheon will make melee combat interesting-- not that I will be a melee class-- but I'm all for making things interesting and even going back to play EQ (p1999) the combat is kind of dull to watch a lot of the times. The only MMO that I've actually seen engaging melee in is Final Fantasy XI with its skill chain system. It's the only MMO I've played that made melee combat actually enjoyable and engaging to me... setting up a skill chain for your mage to magic burst on. It was a simple part of the game and not everyone liked it, but I felt that if the system were done again with some more thought it could really flourish. Keeping a variety of weapons relevant, giving each physical DPS class a way to interact with each other and the casters to speed up your kills.

    While I would personally love to see this kind of a system in Pantheon, I know that it probably wouldn't happen... but it got me wondering... how will Pantheon make melee combat more interesting than auto attacking and maybe pressing a few skills like taunt/kick? Sure classes may have their own thing, but I thought the coordination of melee skills to make a skill chain was what made it engaging and fun in FFXI even if 99.95% of all groups used a Distortion chain for most of the time I played at least =p

    I think part of me wants this more because while I usually play a healer or a chanter, I may roll a wizard this time around though I have been considering Druid or Shaman as well. Anyway... what do you guys think/know about how Pantheon will make melee more interesting?

     

    EQ is the only game where I found melee fighting to be dull TBH. It was auto attack based, in fact dice roll based but in an automated system that ended beeing not as fun as rolling real dices. Most game then made melee combat more engaging especially because you are more exposed to damage and must think about both your rotation and survival. Sometimes way too exposed....

    • 13 posts
    November 13, 2019 3:43 PM PST

    MauvaisOeil said:

    EQ is the only game where I found melee fighting to be dull TBH. It was auto attack based, in fact dice roll based but in an automated system that ended beeing not as fun as rolling real dices. Most game then made melee combat more engaging especially because you are more exposed to damage and must think about both your rotation and survival. Sometimes way too exposed....

    See, I never got into the whole rotation thing either. I didn't really find that very engaging either. Just mash the buttons for MO4R D33ps! Do we know if Pantheon is going with the melee rotations? I don't really know much about the melee classes of Pantheon except for some of the dev streams I've seen where the combat seems very similar to EQ =p

    • 182 posts
    November 13, 2019 8:18 PM PST

    Im imagining the combat would be more akin to vanguard than to EQ.... only better than it was in VG?

     


    This post was edited by Alyonyah at November 13, 2019 8:18 PM PST
    • 1653 posts
    November 13, 2019 8:44 PM PST

    Souldrake said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    EQ is the only game where I found melee fighting to be dull TBH. It was auto attack based, in fact dice roll based but in an automated system that ended beeing not as fun as rolling real dices. Most game then made melee combat more engaging especially because you are more exposed to damage and must think about both your rotation and survival. Sometimes way too exposed....

    See, I never got into the whole rotation thing either. I didn't really find that very engaging either. Just mash the buttons for MO4R D33ps! Do we know if Pantheon is going with the melee rotations? I don't really know much about the melee classes of Pantheon except for some of the dev streams I've seen where the combat seems very similar to EQ =p

     

    So I don't get it, you want melee to be engaging but you don't like having to use a priority of your skills to deal the best amount of damage, so what do you expect ? Melee combat in pantheon is miles away from EQ for the single reason that it implies more than auto attack and pressing the same skill every ten seconds (kick/backstab/Flying kick).

    • 1196 posts
    November 15, 2019 8:10 AM PST

    Souldrake said:... what do you guys think/know about how Pantheon will make melee more interesting?
    If you take a look at what Vanguard had, it's a good starting point in designing a system that's engaging for all roles.
    Essentially, it allows certain classes or roles to apply certain status effects, and others to exploit them.  By expanding this system to include features from systems like personal environments, Heroic Opportunities,  or Fellowship Manoeuvers, you could have some pretty amazing combat, imo.  Doesn't have to be exact copies of those systems, but something similar would certainly keep things interesting.

    Also, the idea of: if you used such an optional synergy system, each player could obtain broken equipment suitable for their role.. could be a reasonable carrot to encourage it's use.

    Finally, dynamic addtions to the LAS bar, either through consumables or other means, similar to many games, would be a cheap & easy way to keep things, if not interesting, contextual or situational. There was some great ideas proposed in 2017 on this topic of dynamic abilities in a group setting.

    X

    • 694 posts
    November 18, 2019 8:33 AM PST

    I agree with Mauvais and think that we don't have to worry about PRotF melee being anywhere near as dull as EQ was/is.  With that said, I would love to see more than just the monk have flashy animations that make you feel that you are actually in control of your combat.  

    i.e. Monk can choose between spinning kicks, flurries of punches etc and your avatar performs the very different animation that you as the player command - and that is very rewarding.  In comparison to the typical melee using a "Cleaving Devastator" or a "Skull Splitter" and both moves (along with every other melee swing) looks identical to the other fly-swat attack animations.  If I'm doing a "cleave" type attack, maybe give my avatar a spinning animation, or maybe a jump into the air and vertical chop for a skull splitter type of attack... it would make the combat more engaging.  My $.02

    • 4 posts
    December 1, 2019 7:37 PM PST

    EQ is hardly a good example of what melee is like nowadays. Even the various melee classes in wow have wildly different playstyles especially the hyper-mobile Demon Hunter. And if you're trying to find a good melee class by watching other people play you're doing it wrong. Watching someone play an MMO and actually playing are two completely opposite experiences.