Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Innate (Racial) Passives

    • 2419 posts
    October 31, 2019 2:12 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    i guess what you are looking for is a streamline approach to the racials?  i could get on board with that.

    What I'm looking for is the logic, the reasoning behind why the racial passives started at the percents given.  Why 100% on the Dwarven disarm yet 20% for Stun immunity?  Or 20% for resisting Fear? I could easily accept 20% across the board for every race or 100%, or 50% so long as it was applied equally.  It is the 100% vs 20% that just makes no sense even from a 'this is just a starting point'. Why is Disarm worth 100% while resisting Fear or Stun immunity worth only 20%?

    For the races that see a set +10 to some skill, that, to me, means they already know how powerful +10 means otherwise they could have just as easily left off the exact number.  But when you read the Skar desciption of "(+X% to damage dealt, -Y% to damage received. May also nullify certain aspects of the disposition’s effects)" I interpret that to mean they have no clue what the Predatory disposition will do.

    It is just so infuriating to see such different approachs to describing these things, specific here, vague as #%&@ there with no rhyme or reason for it. Yes, this stuff is going to change (well, it better #&%#%@ change) if we ever get into actually testing this stuff but you even with that in mind you can come out with a baseline position that shows an even handed approach.  At least players will kinow exactly where they will conceivably start.

    • 1428 posts
    October 31, 2019 2:27 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    What I'm looking for is the logic, the reasoning behind why the racial passives started at the percents given.  Why 100% on the Dwarven disarm yet 20% for Stun immunity?  Or 20% for resisting Fear? I could easily accept 20% across the board for every race or 100%, or 50% so long as it was applied equally.  It is the 100% vs 20% that just makes no sense even from a 'this is just a starting point'. Why is Disarm worth 100% while resisting Fear or Stun immunity worth only 20%?

    For the races that see a set +10 to some skill, that, to me, means they already know how powerful +10 means otherwise they could have just as easily left off the exact number.  But when you read the Skar desciption of "(+X% to damage dealt, -Y% to damage received. May also nullify certain aspects of the disposition’s effects)" I interpret that to mean they have no clue what the Predatory disposition will do.

    It is just so infuriating to see such different approachs to describing these things, specific here, vague as #%&@ there with no rhyme or reason for it. Yes, this stuff is going to change (well, it better #&%#%@ change) if we ever get into actually testing this stuff but you even with that in mind you can come out with a baseline position that shows an even handed approach.  At least players will kinow exactly where they will conceivably start.

    ah i can't really assess the value or metric of the numbers in terms of racial passive power alotted.  i'll play along and speculate the vr logic:

    assume 1 of 20 mobs disarm

    assume 3 of 10 mobs stun

    assume that 5 of 10 mobs fear

     

    we can then say that 50% of the time the fear resist would be useful(then again it's a binary result... i'm pushing for a duration reduction in effect)

    in the overview, if the 100% disarm immunity only accounts for 5% of the mobs out there... is it valuable?

    uhh i'm not sure how to continue?  hopefully you get the jist of what i'm saying XD(sorry if my math is bad.  it's not my strong suit >.>)

     

    added-  if disarm is as common a cc as fear or stun i'd definitely have issues with 100% immunity.  then again disarm probably only entails partial loss of character control vs stun which results in total loss.  fear being really bad since u can wander off and pull additional mobs.


    This post was edited by NoJuiceViscosity at October 31, 2019 2:31 PM PDT
    • 1584 posts
    November 18, 2019 4:56 PM PST

    Btw I just realized something, Ogre's passive to the stun does seem quite strong from a tanking prespective, but than i went to check on my class again "paaldin", and where ogre are immune to stun 25% of the time and 100% im guessing with a short duration active, paladin and also immune to stuns when fighting undead, so at least from a tanking prespective, it pretty much evens out, granted for it to truly do so their would have to be plenty of undead to kill and such.

    • 137 posts
    November 18, 2019 5:04 PM PST
    That seems similar to the skars passive of 20
    % resist to fear..and a dire lords passive that cuts fear duration in half.
    • 1584 posts
    November 18, 2019 5:30 PM PST

    Wig said: That seems similar to the skars passive of 20 % resist to fear..and a dire lords passive that cuts fear duration in half.

    Well the biggest thing that people were worried about is that on a lot of sandbox games physical stuns were quite dominant compared to other types of CC for mobs, and with ogres having a natural resistance to it made it seem quite powerful, but now I think with paladins having passive that is close to the same by mob type is than I think that passive isn't as strong as it was.  

    Now granted this doesn't do much for the warriors and dire lords but I'm sure either way I'm not going to see a ton ogre dire lords and warrior though I do think they will be the most dominant in those classes but see enough of the other to have a nice blend

    • 137 posts
    November 19, 2019 3:30 AM PST
    Yes, personally I’d rather have the stun resist than the fear resist :)
    • 1584 posts
    November 19, 2019 3:38 AM PST

    Wig said: Yes, personally I’d rather have the stun resist than the fear resist :)

    most will i think, but i also am thinking if dire lords get a passive that reduces the effect of fear they might even get an active to resist it as well and could ultimate with the skar passive make them basically immune to fear or a lot higher eiher way, and wouldn't be able to achieve this without being skar, just some food for thought, bit say ogre's are the wrong class, as I've avocated many times i don't think many of these passives are strong in general, but maybe if they work within the accordance of class selection they could make the race passive stronger with the right class, in given situations.

    • 137 posts
    November 19, 2019 7:21 AM PST
    I was thinking the same thing. Do you want a general resistance to fear and stun as a dire lord, then roll ogre. Do you want to practically never be feared, go skar. It depends on what people want. IMO I still feel ogre would be a better choice for dire lord. Fear effect reduced in half plus resistance to stun is pretty good. Compared to the skars fear effect cut in half, plus 20% chance to resist fear all together. Not to mention ogres STR stat bonus. VR give me active racials and attributes so I can gnaw on more info pleeeeease.
    • 2138 posts
    November 19, 2019 9:02 AM PST

    Although not "balancing" per se, I think it would be cool if dwarves discovered they could be somewhat resistant to fear if they were drunk enough, (Let your imagination run with that one)

    Likewise, elves would be somewhat resistant to stuns if they were charming/pretty enough (get it, stunning?) or even humans provided they have the discovered perfume accidentally made from a botched combine from a Myr  pressure acclimation potion experiment made with whale puke. (apparently thats true IRL about whale puke and perfume)

     

    • 1584 posts
    November 19, 2019 10:58 AM PST

    Manouk said:

    Although not "balancing" per se, I think it would be cool if dwarves discovered they could be somewhat resistant to fear if they were drunk enough, (Let your imagination run with that one)

    Likewise, elves would be somewhat resistant to stuns if they were charming/pretty enough (get it, stunning?) or even humans provided they have the discovered perfume accidentally made from a botched combine from a Myr  pressure acclimation potion experiment made with whale puke. (apparently thats true IRL about whale puke and perfume)

     

    maybe, but if your a dwarf paladin, and had a chance to be resistant to fear by being drunk, while also immune to disarm, and than stuns from undead, that seems like quite a bit if you went paladin, but who knows i like that kind of thinking though.

    • 291 posts
    November 19, 2019 2:03 PM PST

    Im hoping that the activated abilities offset the "best in class" race choices that the innate abilities suggest.

    • 1584 posts
    November 19, 2019 2:13 PM PST

    Yeah of course, i tihnk a lot of people are wanting that, but as i said many times people i tihnk are making a bigger deal out of a lot of these passives than they are actually doing, like 5% crit damage honestly isn't much, and you can say it will help you hold aggro better with your a tank, and i can easily say critting in general would help you keep threat and the 5% is simply eye candy to something that truly in regards to tanking isn't doing such.

    • 2752 posts
    November 19, 2019 2:56 PM PST

    Riahuf22 said:

    Btw I just realized something, Ogre's passive to the stun does seem quite strong from a tanking prespective, but than i went to check on my class again "paaldin", and where ogre are immune to stun 25% of the time and 100% im guessing with a short duration active, paladin and also immune to stuns when fighting undead, so at least from a tanking prespective, it pretty much evens out, granted for it to truly do so their would have to be plenty of undead to kill and such.

    Or just ask a druid:

    Imbue Trait: Thunderpaw's Resilience 

    You harness the resilient nature of the Thunderpaw’s frame. This Trait greatly increases the Stamina and Armor Class of your target and makes them nearly impossible to stun with physical attacks. (Replaces Grizzly’s Resilience)

    • 1584 posts
    November 19, 2019 2:58 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Btw I just realized something, Ogre's passive to the stun does seem quite strong from a tanking prespective, but than i went to check on my class again "paaldin", and where ogre are immune to stun 25% of the time and 100% im guessing with a short duration active, paladin and also immune to stuns when fighting undead, so at least from a tanking prespective, it pretty much evens out, granted for it to truly do so their would have to be plenty of undead to kill and such.

    Or just ask a druid:

    Imbue Trait: Thunderpaw's Resilience 

    You harness the resilient nature of the Thunderpaw’s frame. This Trait greatly increases the Stamina and Armor Class of your target and makes them nearly impossible to stun with physical attacks. (Replaces Grizzly’s Resilience)

    This is very true, i forgot about that being a druid buff, so again only proves my point.  plus as I've noticed the class passives are by far more powerful that race passives.

    • 291 posts
    November 19, 2019 3:51 PM PST

    Riahuf22 said:

    Yeah of course, i tihnk a lot of people are wanting that, but as i said many times people i tihnk are making a bigger deal out of a lot of these passives than they are actually doing, like 5% crit damage honestly isn't much, and you can say it will help you hold aggro better with your a tank, and i can easily say critting in general would help you keep threat and the 5% is simply eye candy to something that truly in regards to tanking isn't doing such.

     

    I agree. Nothing currently is outta whack... just feels like that because the activated layer is missing imo. Hope they are ready to serve this up soon.