DagNabbit said:Unfortunately, from the FAQ today, section 2.2: " Then, say you move on deeper into the dungeon and are about to confront a different boss with different abilities and a different disposition, it may make tactical sense to prep different abilities."vjek, I always kind of saw dispositions as more of a non-boss mechanic, meant to add variety to respawns of non-named mobs. Named mobs, I figured, would instead have more powerful abilities but a bit more predictability - specifically to avoid "bad rolls" on dispositions for already powerful, named mobs.
Thanks, vjek. I stand corrected. That's going to make for some interesting fights if bosses become immune to CC necessary to negate a special ability. That would certainly introduce best-race situations on unfortunate boss spawns that may prove exclusionary ("Kick that Dark Myr for that Halfling real quick"). I still like my way better. =P
Edit: Now that I look it, that quote doesn't preclude static dispositions for individual bosses either. Say Lord Examplar is always cunning, while his guards may be of any disposition. In the next room, Lady Samplar may always be bloodthirsty. I'd somewhat expect some static spawns in terms of dispositions - like gate guards with truesight or cunning. I'd also somewhat expect many named mobs to have unique ability sets, and randomizing their dispositions seems dangerous. Getting a boss immune to everything but silence who casts an insta-death that must be silenced... who randomly rolls as immune to silences. Eep.
oneADseven said:vjek said:One thing that didn't seem to be addressed (although I could have missed it) was if each race had a choice of these innates, or each race automatically recieved all of them, or if they were granted by tier/level, or if Progeny would permit any/all/some of these varying racials to be granted to a single character? (as in, if you Progeny 9 times, can you get all the racials?)
Something like this? https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9123/for-those-who-only-like-to-have-one-character/view/page/1
oneADseven said:I would propose the following for Progeny:
- Progeny is a blessing that shamans (players) can cast on max level characters (adventure/crafting), and is considered an epic ability.
- Upon receiving the blessing (Progeny), the max level player becomes eligible to interact with Shaman Shrines placed strategically around the world.
- Every Shaman Shrine has a small population of NPC's (Banker, Vendor, Guard) in the surrounding area that will only interact with you if you meet it's unique faction requirements. (Starts Neutral)
- Upon first interacting with the shrines, players have the ability to create a Progeny. (There are no Race/Class Restrictions for Progeny)
- You are limited to having only 1 Parent & Progeny at any given time, and can toggle between them while interacting with the shrines.
- Parent/Progeny share the same name, faction, completed quests, access keys, languages, harvesting skills, mounts, bank space, bind location, inventory, currency, mail, friends list, outpost, housing, and lockout timers.
- Parent/Progeny do not share the same experience bars, adventuring skills, stats, hotbar/gear loadouts, race, class, crafting profession, or level.
- Upon reaching max level with the Progeny, players become eligible to receive another shaman blessing called Rites of Passage, which is considered an epic ability.
- Upon receiving the blessing (Rites of Passage), players choose between retaining the Parent or Progeny.
- After choosing, both are merged into the character selected, with certain Traits being retained. Players can create a new progeny after the merge.
Traits
- Racial Bonuses (Adventure/Crafting -- Can be capped to X) (You only retain these if you were max level for the associated sphere, meaning you can retain both adventure/crafting but it requires being max in both at the time of the merge.)
- Epic Abilities/Recipes. (No multi-classing, you just retain any earned epic abilities (and recipes if they are a thing) and they can be used by future progeny)
- Perception (Don't know enough about this feature yet to truly say this could work, but it's an interesting talking point.)
That would be an ideal implementation of progeny, for me. In that scenario, there would likely be a cap of how many racial bonuses you could leverage at any given point in time. Let's say 3. Anything past 3 would be horizontal which then makes the feature more user-friendly for people without extreme amounts of time. You could level up all 9 races if you wanted to which would give you an increased pool of racial bonuses to adjust while out of combat. In order for each race to still offer something uniquely attached to their physical racial identity, the "active" section of racial abilities would be limited to the current generation only. I feel this approach would remove any/all perceived issues with balance between the races as there would be no true meta that pigeonholes players, at least as far as innates/passives are concerned. It would also offer a lot of replay value for players that level up multiple races as they would be able to enjoy other regions of content that they may have missed on previous runs.
Don't agree that progeny should give you passives of other races, becuase once you would do it 9 times or however many times you decide to do it, it would cause the race selection again as only a cosmetic feature yet again, and again cuases me to disagree with it, becuase race selection should never be just a cosmetic feature.
honestly i didnt see any passives being overly underwhelming, for one i have no idea what the "insight" skill even is. for all i know insight might be a skill that increases the damage/effectiveness of all spells/abilities. (that seems to be "insight"ful to me anyway, kind of like channeling was for everquest but instead of preventing it from being interrupted, is increases the effect? maybe i have no idea, but i can say that with this skill does do this than i say dark myr has a pretty strong passive, and would even out with some of the others, especially with your buffers, like priest.
and if this is true than i think all the races are actually in a good spot and i hope they are, and this is without even considering what their actives are.
Riahuf22 said:honestly i didnt see any passives being overly underwhelming, for one i have no idea what the "insight" skill even is. for all i know insight might be a skill that increases the damage/effectiveness of all spells/abilities. (that seems to be "insight"ful to me anyway, kind of like channeling was for everquest but instead of preventing it from being interrupted, is increases the effect? maybe i have no idea, but i can say that with this skill does do this than i say dark myr has a pretty strong passive, and would even out with some of the others, especially with your buffers, like priest.
and if this is true than i think all the races are actually in a good spot and i hope they are, and this is without even considering what their actives are.
unless you're like me and going to play a sub optimal racial class setup.... ember elf enchanter XD no choice gotta go with it since it fits the characters lore.
I would imagine bosses or named mobs could have more than 1 disposition as well.
Racial passives are pretty cool. I bet some of the races that were light on passives have stronger active racial skills. They seem to be put a good amount of thought into these. Lore driven as well. Nice to see races actually being different!!
Kastor said:I would imagine bosses or named mobs could have more than 1 disposition as well.
Racial passives are pretty cool. I bet some of the races that were light on passives have stronger active racial skills. They seem to be put a good amount of thought into these. Lore driven as well. Nice to see races actually being different!!
skar active racial = move 20% faster for 10 seconds.
dark myr active racial = heal yourself for 10% of max hp
ember elf active = immune to movement altering effects 10 sec
ashen elf = immune to spell interrupts and counter spell 10 sec
humans = haste 10% 10 secs
gnomes = regen 10% of max mana
ogres = 5% damage buff 10 secs
halfling = uhh.. able to copy the most recently use consumable?
dwarves = 5% damage reduction buff 10 secs
i think that's all the races
I think it would be a shame if racial passives were so important as to make certain races *significantly* better than others at certain classes.
I'm pretty sure in previous communications devs have said that passives, or lack of, can be overcome as you progress by picking the right gear, for example.
I quite like the lore-based ideas they have, so I really hope the numbers being used aren't so impactful as to make it so you feel you've 'gimped' your character because the race-class combo you wanted wasn't 'the best' because of passives.
It does seem, at the moment, that some races are getting just 'more' than others and some just 'less'. I mean, halfling warrior? When dwarf has health boost and ogre has attack rating, stun immunity and crit damage... er...
It looks to me that some races need some negative racial passives to balance things.
I believe that Insight is related to the Perception system, though I could be wrong about that.
disposalist said:I think it would be a shame if racial passives were so important as to make certain races *significantly* better than others at certain classes.
I'm pretty sure in previous communications devs have said that passives, or lack of, can be overcome as you progress by picking the right gear, for example.
I quite like the lore-based ideas they have, so I really hope the numbers being used aren't so impactful as to make it so you feel you've 'gimped' your character because the race-class combo you wanted wasn't 'the best' because of passives.
It does seem, at the moment, that some races are getting just 'more' than others and some just 'less'. I mean, halfling warrior? When dwarf has health boost and ogre has attack rating, stun immunity and crit damage... er...
It looks to me that some races need some negative racial passives to balance things.
it's really only for the hardcore minmaxers. the numbers are marginal at best 100 crit damage 5% is an extra 5 damage. i wouldn't worry about it much i'll be playing a sub optimal combination for personal character lore.
Insight could be very strong. Higher Insight into a creature could allow you to see its defensive weaknesses and potentially do more dmg to it. Depends what insight is actually used for.
stellarmind said:disposalist said:I think it would be a shame if racial passives were so important as to make certain races *significantly* better than others at certain classes.
I'm pretty sure in previous communications devs have said that passives, or lack of, can be overcome as you progress by picking the right gear, for example.
I quite like the lore-based ideas they have, so I really hope the numbers being used aren't so impactful as to make it so you feel you've 'gimped' your character because the race-class combo you wanted wasn't 'the best' because of passives.
It does seem, at the moment, that some races are getting just 'more' than others and some just 'less'. I mean, halfling warrior? When dwarf has health boost and ogre has attack rating, stun immunity and crit damage... er...
It looks to me that some races need some negative racial passives to balance things.
it's really only for the hardcore minmaxers. the numbers are marginal at best 100 crit damage 5% is an extra 5 damage. i wouldn't worry about it much i'll be playing a sub optimal combination for personal character lore.
It is until guilds and even groups start insisting on ogre warriors because without stun immunity certain ecounters are harder.
As soon as you give some combo too much of a distinct and significant advantage a good proportion of players will see it as de facto and start rejecting anything else.
"You're a halfling warrior? Nah, sorry, I'll pick the ogre one two levels lower than you instead - go back to LFG".
Yeah, maybe not just because of the 5% crit, but with stun immunity and attack power too? And what about them dwarfs?
"You're a halfling warrior? Nah, sorry, I'll pick the dwarf - our healer can be slow off the mark - we need the extra health pool".
They just need to be a bit careful. There are some great ideas in there and nice lore, but still, some races got "wow!" and others "meh" when it comes to the gameplay impact, I think.
I am far from a believer in every race and every class being "balanced".
On the other hand we don't want some classes or some races having a major disadvantage when it comes to getting in groups.
To me this feels like a bigger issue when it comes to classes. If druids and clerics are both healing classes, and roles are critical in Pantheon, and VR messes up and clerics are better in essentially all respects as healers - every druid in the entire game will have a major problem.
With races - people that care about the kind of end game content that causes groups or guilds to only take the *best* class/race combinations simply will have to be careful not to play the wrong combination.
While I agree with all that Disposalist says - on balance I am more worried about unrestrained efforts to balance everything than I am about the effects of some race/class combinations simply not being as good as others.
I myself tend to be contrarian and not the min-maxer I once was. I am as likely to be the halfling warrior as anyone else. But I can't really find a compelling need to insist that every race/warrior combination the game allows has to be equally good.
Vandraad said:I'm dissappointed with the Skar racial for runspeed. If it only affects the Skar, what is the point? Why would you want to run faster than everyone else in your group? When traveling you'd want to stick together would you not? When moving around in a dungeon, being together is better. If you run faster you end up just having to wait.
I've looked at the 5% increase in maximum HP and it concerns me greatly because it means the Skar needs to focus quite a bit on gear that has as much raw HP as possible to see any benefit. I also wonder about the HP/STA ratio that will be in the game. How many raw HP do you need to match the HP from a single point of Stamina? You've got the Dwarf with a bonus to HP for each point of Stamina contrasting with the Skar's bonus to maximum HP.
Depending upon the base STA for each of the races, even the 5% HP bonus for the Skar could keep it only in the middle of the pack when it comes to total available HP.
As for the increase resist to Fear, like a lot of the other passives where you have an increased chance to resist something, it all comes down to how often you encounter such a thing in the game. If you rarely, if ever, encounter something that casts fear it is a wasted passive.
stellarmind said:skar active racial = move 20% faster for 10 seconds.
dark myr active racial = heal yourself for 10% of max hp
ember elf active = immune to movement altering effects 10 sec
ashen elf = immune to spell interrupts and counter spell 10 sec
humans = haste 10% 10 secs
gnomes = regen 10% of max mana
ogres = 5% damage buff 10 secs
halfling = uhh.. able to copy the most recently use consumable?
dwarves = 5% damage reduction buff 10 secs
i think that's all the races
I hear an Archai crying faintly from the shadows....
BamBam said:I think we all need to wait and see the Racial actives befour be judge the class as overpowered or underwhelming.
I enjoyed the video a lot, and im in limbo now of what race i Will pick for my Shaman.
I agree, the actives could change things a lot.
I'm also making a Shaman as my healer. Several races get racials that help magic and could be good shamans, especially after we see the actives.
But currently I plan to go archai for my shaman. First, because mana drain effects have to be pretty tough on a healer.
But more important, I want the Elemental attunement because Shamans are very elementally based. I plan to attune my Shaman to water. In the current list of abilities (admittedly not nearly complete), 3 of the 5 listed healing abilities are water based. Also, in the 9 offensive abilities listed, water is the only elemental base that shows up more than once. It's only twice, but hey it's a start.
And Natural Acclimation isn't particularly a Shaman skill, but it sure helps any class who gets it.
phil85 said:I was a bit confused about the two ogre passives that modestly increase DPS. What's the benefit for a tanking class?
Besides the benefits of more damage that BamBam mentioned, we don't yet know what "attack rating" really means. While it may well be just damage, it could easily be a bonus to your chances of landing the hit rather than the damage you do. More chance to hit would be an even better bonus IMO, especially for a tank.
stellarmind said:Riahuf22 said:honestly i didnt see any passives being overly underwhelming, for one i have no idea what the "insight" skill even is. for all i know insight might be a skill that increases the damage/effectiveness of all spells/abilities. (that seems to be "insight"ful to me anyway, kind of like channeling was for everquest but instead of preventing it from being interrupted, is increases the effect? maybe i have no idea, but i can say that with this skill does do this than i say dark myr has a pretty strong passive, and would even out with some of the others, especially with your buffers, like priest.
and if this is true than i think all the races are actually in a good spot and i hope they are, and this is without even considering what their actives are.
unless you're like me and going to play a sub optimal racial class setup.... ember elf enchanter XD no choice gotta go with it since it fits the characters lore.
For one as even though i do see some passives could have a strong effect, in the pvp world passives usually dont mean all that much, as in if you have 2 really good players going at each other it more likely a well timed crit won you the battle than a passive giving you an edge, although passives can help that is why they are their, but what i am basically getting at is if someone decides to be an ogre warrior for the partial/full stun immune and goes against lets say a halfling warrior switch as right now out of passives it would seem the ogre as the edge, but if the halfling simply just out classes him than his passives did him no favors becuase they will hardly ever be the winning factor.
dorotea said:I am far from a believer in every race and every class being "balanced".
On the other hand we don't want some classes or some races having a major disadvantage when it comes to getting in groups.
Same here, but I couldn't care less about people not getting group invites. What concerns me is that everyone knows Race X should be Class X. THEN, when the devs get tired of hearing everyone whining about that scenrio, instead of fixing the issue they just nerf the hell out of abilities. Which is what we always see.
Kittik said:dorotea said:I am far from a believer in every race and every class being "balanced".
On the other hand we don't want some classes or some races having a major disadvantage when it comes to getting in groups.
Same here, but I couldn't care less about people not getting group invites. What concerns me is that everyone knows Race X should be Class X. THEN, when the devs get tired of hearing everyone whining about that scenrio, instead of fixing the issue they just nerf the hell out of abilities. Which is what we always see.
I dont see these passives hardly doing that, cept for maybe the rogues as they seem to be heavily looked at, (dark myr, halfling, elves, and gnomes i guess), but honestly i find them small potatoes, i still see if the best played rogue on a elf is compared to the best played rogue that is human, their dps difference will be marginal, if not non exsistant at all, thats just me though, as in WoW even classic or orginal they better played character always had the best dps, or tanking or healing, that simply how it was, so as these passives could give you an edge in your mind i dont see them being as strong as people are making them out to be, as passives have never been that strong in any game (cept for ogre frontal stun immunity in eq), but other than that honestly never had a huge impact, not in pvp or pve, and i honestly dont see it here, i believe people are just looking at numbers and basing it off of nothing as we dont even know the scaling it is getting scaled against so only imagining as impactful it could be instead of impactful it actually is.