What are your thoughts after watching these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2OZzwoR7FI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UF8jipvyAoo
Are you satisfied? Do you think all races are more or less balanced? Have you changed your mains planned race becouse of this?
Personally I'm content, becouse Master Race (Gnomes) got pretty nice set of passives . As for the other races - actually most of them are great, but ... as for now I can tell that both Halflings and Skars are pretty bad - if they don't get great active abilities that will balance this out - I doubt I'll play as one.
Some of the values & percentages seem, respectively varying by situation, both underpowered and overpowered.
Similarly, some of the values are not known, which is always a bit shady, as historically, if they're not enumerated, when you find out what they are, it's inevitably disappointing in either direction.
I fully expect these values to be eliminated, changed, or tuned so much as to be entirely different or unrecognizable, during the next several years until and after launch.
It's not changing my personal choices for race, by class, but I can certainly see why it would for some, in the current form.
I'm not impressed by all of them, and I am definitely un-impressed by many of them. Hopefully, over time, they will all be found to be or changed to be positive, important, or impressive.
One thing that didn't seem to be addressed (although I could have missed it) was if each race had a choice of these innates, or each race automatically recieved all of them, or if they were granted by tier/level, or if Progeny would permit any/all/some of these varying racials to be granted to a single character? (as in, if you Progeny 9 times, can you get all the racials?)
I liked them the only passive i didnt really understand was where gnomes got 3% to dodge? but other than that it seemed okay. I'm just happy that we were givin good information I'm sure we will hear many more responses to this thread as well and hope most of it is positive.
As I understood it we will have the entire set available for the race from the beginning - I could be wrong though, so please correct my mistake if that's the case.
I kind of expected Skars (or at least one of the races) have bonus to health regeneration and crit chance. But hay - we can't have everything! xP
As for the dodge for Gnomes - I guess it makes sense, but I'd rather see it as a passive for Halflings and give gnomes some other ability instead - like additional m.def based on wis or some environment attunement.
I wish the human +10 to shield was +5 to all weapons and shields. I feel this would suit their class options much better and allow for more flexability.
Kellie said:I wish the human +10 to shield was +5 to all weapons and shields.
I actually have a question about that. These +x to skill just means that they start with greater skill value, but the cap is the same for all? So at the "end-game" this skill will be completely redundant anyway? Unless it also increases skill cap by +10 ...
Hegenox said:Kellie said:I wish the human +10 to shield was +5 to all weapons and shields.
I actually have a question about that. These +x to skill just means that they start with greater skill value, but the cap is the same for all? So at the "end-game" this skill will be completely redundant anyway? Unless it also increases skill cap by +10 ...
Yeah we dont know if it will cap out at 300 or if it will go to 310, if it goes to 310/300 then it will be a nice boon all the way through. (300 is just a guess at what level might be max)
Usually +skill raises things above the cap, so if 300 would be max than if you use the right weapon/shield it would go to 310, which it should becuase if it didnt than all passives that do this would become obsolete upon reaching max level, which should never be the case.
I'm dissappointed with the Skar racial for runspeed. If it only affects the Skar, what is the point? Why would you want to run faster than everyone else in your group? When traveling you'd want to stick together would you not? When moving around in a dungeon, being together is better. If you run faster you end up just having to wait.
I've looked at the 5% increase in maximum HP and it concerns me greatly because it means the Skar needs to focus quite a bit on gear that has as much raw HP as possible to see any benefit. I also wonder about the HP/STA ratio that will be in the game. How many raw HP do you need to match the HP from a single point of Stamina? You've got the Dwarf with a bonus to HP for each point of Stamina contrasting with the Skar's bonus to maximum HP.
Depending upon the base STA for each of the races, even the 5% HP bonus for the Skar could keep it only in the middle of the pack when it comes to total available HP.
As for the increase resist to Fear, like a lot of the other passives where you have an increased chance to resist something, it all comes down to how often you encounter such a thing in the game. If you rarely, if ever, encounter something that casts fear it is a wasted passive.
Riahuf22 said:It would be great to know if that was the current design goal, versus just a starting/initial bonus.Usually +skill raises things above the cap, so if 300 would be max than if you use the right weapon/shield it would go to 310, which it should becuase if it didnt than all passives that do this would become obsolete upon reaching max level, which should never be the case.
vjek said:Some of the values & percentages seem, respectively varying by situation, both underpowered and overpowered.
Similarly, some of the values are not known, which is always a bit shady, as historically, if they're not enumerated, when you find out what they are, it's inevitably disappointing in either direction.
I fully expect these values to be eliminated, changed, or tuned so much as to be entirely different or unrecognizable, during the next several years until and after launch.
It's not changing my personal choices for race, by class, but I can certainly see why it would for some, in the current form.
I'm not impressed by all of them, and I am definitely un-impressed by many of them. Hopefully, over time, they will all be found to be or changed to be positive, important, or impressive.
One thing that didn't seem to be addressed (although I could have missed it) was if each race had a choice of these innates, or each race automatically recieved all of them, or if they were granted by tier/level, or if Progeny would permit any/all/some of these varying racials to be granted to a single character? (as in, if you Progeny 9 times, can you get all the racials?)
This sums up my thoughts as well. I mentally cringed a little bit at some of the numbers Joppa mentioned. It feels like there should have been a disclaimer on it saying that these numbers were just starting points and could change during alpha and beta.
Apart from that:
- I still have the same concerns about the race/class matrix that I have had for a while.
- While I appreciate the attempt to make it so that there wasn't one clear "best" race for each class or archetype, I think now what we have is races being pigeonholed into archetypes, which isn't really great either (especially if they have class options outside those archetypes).
- I was relieved/happy to see that there are no racial bonuses to any crafting professions. Joppa's intro for dwarves had me worried that they would go there, but they didn't.
- I still feel like character skills need to evolve from what they were in EQ, and even VG, and have both more impact as well as more meaningful choice associated with them.
- I am intrigued by the bonuses against certain dispositions. I would like to know more about how that works. Does it allow characters to identify those dispositions? Is it just some sort of attack or resist bonus?
I was thinking about the disposition bonus. I suspect that it's simply a damage/bane bonus, at this point. If it's something else? Awesome, but, unless the racial can be similarly granted by gear, effects, buffs, or similar? It becomes a bit problematic.
So what I mean by my current theory is.. I suspect it's a bane effect simply because I suspect you'll be able to add bane effects to weapons or spells, or certain gear will hvae bane effects. And in this context, that would mean dispositional bane, not only racial/type bane.
If the "disposition advantage" from the video negates aspects of the disposition... send in the halflings to CC the deranged mobs!
Also, for those concerned about Dark Myr, they'd maybe get to stealth through the see stealth from cunning? That's cool, but only really affects one (?) class of the nine or so launch classes the DM can choose.
In the middle of Part 2 (Skar) - there was a note that stated that these disposition bonuses are mainly attack/resistance increase, but may nullify some effects depending on disposition.
Saw that too, Hegenox. Was the only one that said, "May also nullify certain aspects of the disposition's effects." Maybe placeholder text that didn't get condensed for stream? Would be neat even if it just partially nullified disposition resistances. Elves less likely to be seen through invis with truesight, mebbe? Nifty. Ogres immune to a "bloodthirsty" mob's bleed? Sweet. For Skar, maybe that means they can see through "predatory" mobs' stealth? It'd add some meaningful choice depending on how prevalent the dispositions are. Might make little difference most of the time, big difference to some camps, sneaking around certain entrances, etc.
Edit: Maybe Dark Myr would also do bonus ranged damage to cunning mobs, since they already take increased ranged damage?
It seems... less deterministic for players if not all races can be an appropriate tank, yet, bosses may spawn with particular dispositions.
I'm all for dynamic combat, yet, if you remove choice from the equation, it quickly becomes pure RNG driving the bus.
If you randomly get a boss mob that, due to disposition, requires a high hit-point tank, yet will also perform special attacks that can only be reasonably mitigated by racial passives that aren't present in races that can be high hit-point tanks.. that is an undesirable situation, from the paying customer perspective. :)
The perfect storm would be if the disposition of the boss is purely random, so that your success or failure is entirely random, despite making all the 'best' choices up to that moment.
Doesn't matter in the slightest for non-named, non-boss, non-quest, non-multi-group content, as you will be able to deal with it.
Those same dispositional effects, amplified by percentages due to named, quest, boss, multi-group status, could end up being unpleasant.
vjek said:One thing that didn't seem to be addressed (although I could have missed it) was if each race had a choice of these innates, or each race automatically recieved all of them, or if they were granted by tier/level, or if Progeny would permit any/all/some of these varying racials to be granted to a single character? (as in, if you Progeny 9 times, can you get all the racials?)
Something like this? https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/9123/for-those-who-only-like-to-have-one-character/view/page/1
oneADseven said:I would propose the following for Progeny:
- Progeny is a blessing that shamans (players) can cast on max level characters (adventure/crafting), and is considered an epic ability.
- Upon receiving the blessing (Progeny), the max level player becomes eligible to interact with Shaman Shrines placed strategically around the world.
- Every Shaman Shrine has a small population of NPC's (Banker, Vendor, Guard) in the surrounding area that will only interact with you if you meet it's unique faction requirements. (Starts Neutral)
- Upon first interacting with the shrines, players have the ability to create a Progeny. (There are no Race/Class Restrictions for Progeny)
- You are limited to having only 1 Parent & Progeny at any given time, and can toggle between them while interacting with the shrines.
- Parent/Progeny share the same name, faction, completed quests, access keys, languages, harvesting skills, mounts, bank space, bind location, inventory, currency, mail, friends list, outpost, housing, and lockout timers.
- Parent/Progeny do not share the same experience bars, adventuring skills, stats, hotbar/gear loadouts, race, class, crafting profession, or level.
- Upon reaching max level with the Progeny, players become eligible to receive another shaman blessing called Rites of Passage, which is considered an epic ability.
- Upon receiving the blessing (Rites of Passage), players choose between retaining the Parent or Progeny.
- After choosing, both are merged into the character selected, with certain Traits being retained. Players can create a new progeny after the merge.
Traits
- Racial Bonuses (Adventure/Crafting -- Can be capped to X) (You only retain these if you were max level for the associated sphere, meaning you can retain both adventure/crafting but it requires being max in both at the time of the merge.)
- Epic Abilities/Recipes. (No multi-classing, you just retain any earned epic abilities (and recipes if they are a thing) and they can be used by future progeny)
- Perception (Don't know enough about this feature yet to truly say this could work, but it's an interesting talking point.)
That would be an ideal implementation of progeny, for me. In that scenario, there would likely be a cap of how many racial bonuses you could leverage at any given point in time. Let's say 3. Anything past 3 would be horizontal which then makes the feature more user-friendly for people without extreme amounts of time. You could level up all 9 races if you wanted to which would give you an increased pool of racial bonuses to adjust while out of combat. In order for each race to still offer something uniquely attached to their physical racial identity, the "active" section of racial abilities would be limited to the current generation only. I feel this approach would remove any/all perceived issues with balance between the races as there would be no true meta that pigeonholes players, at least as far as innates/passives are concerned. It would also offer a lot of replay value for players that level up multiple races as they would be able to enjoy other regions of content that they may have missed on previous runs.
BamBam said: I think we all need to wait and see the Racial actives befour be judge the class as overpowered or underwhelming. I enjoyed the video a lot, and im in limbo now of what race i Will pick for my Shaman.
Just looking at the passive for Human, 2% spell haste, stacking with the Vision combat resource of the Shaman that increase spell casting speed (probably up to 5% I'll guess) then casting 7% faster is a big deal especially when, at much later levels, spell cast times typically become much longer.
vjek, I always kind of saw dispositions as more of a non-boss mechanic, meant to add variety to respawns of non-named mobs. Named mobs, I figured, would instead have more powerful abilities but a bit more predictability - specifically to avoid "bad rolls" on dispositions for already powerful, named mobs.