StoneFish said:... So to counter, would proximity come into play?...So, the challenge then is for the player to determine the radius from their corpse where they will receive the buff? Then they'll bind exactly that far away. Then it's made zone-wide, so they switch to /duel, which doesn't have an NPC involved, so has no radius. And on and on it goes.
vjek said:Well, sure, I would. Especially for all my regional bank mules that are level 1.
Why wouldn't I? It's a free travel buff in a big world with limited travel. There's literally zero reason not to exploit the mechanic.
hello darkness, my old friend
i've come to talk with you again
because a bank run is softly creeping
left its seeds while I was sleeping
and the vision that was planted in my brain
still remains
moving fast... in the sound of silence
StoneFish said: I'm starting to get a little disappointed in this forum community. Few seem to read the original posts and go off on rants about a general "this or that". I didn't ask for a description or alternative way to play the game as a whole. I know it's a game and the death penalty is something I want to sting. I asked about a buff or de-buff? I mention trial and error testing. I'm not making a request, I'm not saying anyone is wrong or right, I'm looking for discussion about a tweek to something that is going to be in game. Example: SoW is a buff that is part of an exchange, cooperation, social. Because a stated goal of the development is to foster greater social connections it is best to avoid automated buff systems in favor of social buff attainment. Also, please , someone help me with how it can be abused.
the truth is often dissappointing. fret not sir. the forums aren't exactly organized in a manner one can easily search for things. i'd probably just be swimming in a bowl of pvp soup so this format is rather nice to see what everyone else is talking about. what may seem new can be old. what may seem old can be new. i kind of prefer this though... like an ocean current of information. we get a bit of everything here on the general forums.
some forum fishes have been around for a while so they can be a bit cynical, however, provide great information also important legitimate concerns.
just keep swimming bro ;D
Very good Stellarmind. My favorite group when I was much younger.
And the pattern still remains, in the vault where goods were stooored
And its fitting that it should, lest our oxes all be goooooored.
Like the run speed of my spirit, or the day my corpse grew coooooold.
Movement speed results from patterns that can scarcely, be controlled.
dorotea said:And the pattern still remains, in the vault where goods were stooored
And its fitting that it should, lest our oxes all be goooooored.
Like the run speed of my spirit, or the day my corpse grew coooooold.
There are patterns we must follow just as speed results from death.
XD
and in the death realm i saw
ten thousand people, maybe more
people running without legs
people rezzing without spells
people complaining heals were the problem not the tank
and no one dared
disturb the sound of silence
Hmm I don't know about a change in run speed because it's a CR.
But I don't mind that each person gets an ability called "Sprint" or something where you get a minor temporary speed boost that drains stamina. That is as long as the stamina doesn't immediately/quickly recover allowing you to just spam it.
Bonechip said:
Vander said:I have no good memories about any CR I have ever done.
Interesting.
Some of my best memories of EQ were from corpse runs, and meeting people (I still know today) that helped me retreieve lost corpses.
Guess everyone has different experiences.
Exactly!
When The excrement makes physical contact with a hydro-electric powered oscillating air current distribution device is when you get the chance to show your true colors or find out who your friends are.
Zorkon said:Bonechip said:
Vander said:I have no good memories about any CR I have ever done.
Interesting.
Some of my best memories of EQ were from corpse runs, and meeting people (I still know today) that helped me retreieve lost corpses.
Guess everyone has different experiences.
Exactly!
When The excrement makes physical contact with a hydro-electric powered oscillating air current distribution device is when you get the chance to show your true colors or find out who your friends are.
I respect your point of view, but I don't agree. So to the best of my knowledge as it stands now. Death will lead to an experience lost, damage to your gear, and the dreaded CR.. I have to ask. Why does every game that Brad is involved in have to have CR's? EQ removed it, Vanguard failed yet every game Brad is involved in has to have CR's. Why? What is fun about dying deep inside a zone spending hours trying to get your corpse while dying many more times along the way?
If you enjoy that I can respect your point of view. I have never enjoyed that and never will. Plus we have a completely different definition of fun. Plus this isn't the 90's any more. A lot of the kids, college students that played EQ are all grown up now with a limited time to play because of personal responsibilities. That is the general targeted audience. So as it was pointed out in another post. VR wants to limit how much experience you gain on your character while also making you spend what free time you have to do CR's...( I see that ticking off a lot of people ) I'm just being honest and trying to keep it real. We just have to agree to disagree.
Now before somebody else scream it " death should have consequences ". A game should be fun! When you want to quit the game and / or worse smash your computer after doing a CR that costs you hours and many more deaths. I personally see people walking away from this game. Again all of this is my own opinion(s).
Brad stated that VR was working on it so you can not lose a level from the experience lost you get from death. Was also said they ( VR ) wanted to limit the nightmares most of us have from doing CR's in EQ. So this dying mulitiple times while trying to get to your corpse with all your gear or spending hours on a CR doesn't happen agian. To the best of my knowledge VR hasn't gave us on any details on how they are going to do this. Until they do. I'm going from my personal memories of CR's. >>> No artificial speed buffs from death <<<
I respect your point of view, but I don't agree. So to the best of my knowledge as it stands now. Death will lead to an experience lost, damage to your gear, and the dreaded CR.. I have to ask. Why does every game that Brad is involved in have to have CR's? EQ removed it, Vanguard failed yet every game Brad is involved in has to have CR's. Why? What is fun about dying deep inside a zone spending hours trying to get your corpse while dying many more times along the way?
If you enjoy that I can respect your point of view. I have never enjoyed that and never will. Plus we have a completely different definition of fun. Plus this isn't the 90's any more. A lot of the kids, college students that played EQ are all grown up now with a limited time to play because of personal responsibilities. That is the general targeted audience. So as it was pointed out in another post. VR wants to limit how much experience you gain on your character while also making you spend what free time you have to do CR's...( I see that ticking off a lot of people ) I'm just being honest and trying to keep it real. We just have to agree to disagree.
Not posting to be argumentative, just offering a few counterpoints... Fun is in the eye of the beholder, and our definitions are most assuredly worlds apart, and we can agree to disagree.
It certainly isn't the 90's anymore, especially in regards to mmo's. Times have changed, along with how mmo's are designed in general, and not for the betterment of the genre imo. You postulate above that those players who were kids/college students back in the day won't tolerate this type of death penalty due to the responsabilities of adulthood. I generally disagree with this due to the fact that I was an adult with a wife, seven kids and a full time job as a nurse working 12 hour shifts in the ER, and still managed time to level multiple characters to the cap in EQ. Was I racking up world firsts? No, but I was enjoying myself. My point is its quite possible to make time for gaming and managing your RL responsabilities... just temper your expectations.
Now before somebody else scream it " death should have consequences ". A game should be fun! When you want to quit the game and / or worse smash your computer after doing a CR that costs you hours and many more deaths. I personally see people walking away from this game. Again all of this is my own opinion(s).
A game should be fun, but it isn't a game that many of us here are looking for... we want a virtual world to adventure in. This is just my opinion, but one I feel is shared by many of those following the developement of PRotF. Yes, death should have consequences imo (spoken in a normal voice btw). I dreaded death in EQ, and avoided it if at all possible, but I never even considered /rage quit. Didn't I ever get pissed off? Hell Yeah I did, but dealing with adversity is part of living in a virtual world. Certainly, some folks will walk away from PRotF, but I believe that VR should continue sticking with their tenets and guiding principles and build a harsh and demanding world. Many of the newer generation mmo players will definately avoid PRotF, but there could be many that give it a try and love it. Only time will tell, but imo the niche market that VR is targeting is actually more robust than many believe.
Brad stated that VR was working on it so you can not lose a level from the experience lost you get from death. Was also said they ( VR ) wanted to limit the nightmares most of us have from doing CR's in EQ. So this dying mulitiple times while trying to get to your corpse with all your gear or spending hours on a CR doesn't happen agian. To the best of my knowledge VR hasn't gave us on any details on how they are going to do this. Until they do. I'm going from my personal memories of CR's. >>> No artificial speed buffs from death <<<
CR with debuff, xp loss with deleveling possible, gear left on corpse should all exist imo, but we'll just have to wait and see what VR decides once we get in to alpha/beta.
Again, no animosity directed towards you, just my 2cp's
I think almost all of us can agree on a few points here
1. Death should have consequences. Much more significant consequences than what has become "normal" in MMOs. Not just paying 50 silver in repair costs, having a 5 minute debuff, reviving 4 minutes of walking away from where you died so you need to waste 4 minutes getting back or the like.
2. Corpse runs are one way of imposing these consequences. They are not the *only* way. They can be done well or done poorly. Death can be too easy in a game with corpse runs and too painful in a game without corpse runs. The Devil - or God - is in the details and we won't know the intended details until alpha.
3. Many of us want significant features from EQ or Vanguard to be in Pantheon. Either because we feel they are the "right" way to do things or simply for the nostalgia value. It seems likely to the point of near certainty that corpse runs will be one of these features that we can expect to see in Pantheon. There is nothing wrong with telling VR "I disagree" with any decision they make - all Gods witness I have done so myself more than once. But on the topic of corpse runs it seems more productive to focus on what can be done to make corpse runs fall somewhere between death being trivial and the corpse runs being so punitive that it will be hard to attract and keep any players other than hard core fanatical supporters or masocists. Note that these are the two extremes - I do not say that anything VR currently has in mind falls anywhere near either extreme.
4. A game is not fun for most of us if progress is excruciatingly slow and difficult. Made too time-consuming and difficult, corpse runs can easily produce this result.
5. A game is not fun for most of us if it is too easy and sucess is almost guaranteed. Failure is not fun, but without the very real chance of failure neither is success.
6. Thus - we need to focus on how corpse runs can be made to have death be painful enough to be very *not* trivial but not so punitive that few of us will play the game and those who do will be afraid to explore new areas or fight challenging enemies.
Many options have been suggested. I suggest that we cannot truly judge them without knowing in more details how corpse runs will work. Thus, if giving a corpse run triple speed makes the run trivial, it is a terrible idea. Yet if giving it triple speed moves the corpse run from excruciatingly punitive to appropriately painful it is an *excellent* idea. Thus, if giving an alternative to a corpse run makes death trivial it is a terrible idea. Yet if that same alternative moves death from being excruciatingly punitive to appropriately painful it is an *excellent* idea. Meaning suggestions like much greater loss of experience or revival in a truly inconvenient spot that takes a lot of time to get back to anywhere useful.