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The September Newsletter is here!

    • 71 posts
    September 18, 2019 10:36 PM PDT

    Grime said:

    OGTomkins said:

    Maybe I'm reading too much into this and maybe reddit really is that toxic but as for here on this post specifically I'm not sure where you are getting people are being cry babies or nay sayers. Just like you myself and everyone else has paid some monetary value to this game and are entitled to our opinion. Just because you dont agree with whats being said doesn't mean they are whining or don't understand how long development takes. Everyone has their own idea of when they would like to see something. 

    That's no better than what you said and people turning around saying you are "White Knighting" VR and your expectations and willingness to buy a $30 mug is ridiculous and absurd. This is a chance for everyone to voice their opinion on the topic at hand and gives all other, developers included a chance to see what people have to say. You're taking what could be a nice debate and place to share ideas and turning it into something childish, making lines seem drawn when there are none and adding drama where it isn't needed. Save that for how you so put "reddit forums".

    Don't demoralize and generalize what you think people will do when the game comes out because your so called "fraction" of people to come in and express their appreciation I would be willing to bet would be very surprising to you. (We'll see come release day and ill bookmark this post). I'm all for you being happy and supporting VR and this newsletter but dont deface the value of others opinions and make them seem like they aren't more then "cry babies". VR needs both sides of the fence to make a great game, not just everyone always saying "It'll come out when it comes out".

    We can not see eye to eye and still agree this game will be great when it comes out. But it doesn't mean we have to be at "war" with eachother until it does.

    Im glad that we can see eye to eye about knowing that the game will be great when it comes out.

    Can you reread that passive aggressive 3 paragraphs you wrote that are a direct attack on me and my character before you argue that I’m starting drama and dividing the community with my white knight-ness? Maybe send me a DM next time.

    Its a technique you’re using to write, how you present your contradictive and hypocritical statements logically.

    Look, all I was trying to say is you chose to financially support what you hope to be a masterpiece. It’s not yours, or any other supporters place(okay besides whoever got to design a dungeon) to criticize crowdfunding techniques or the quality of the newsletters.

    If you’re going to complain about the lack of material in the newsletters or the quality of the crowdfunding you’re nothing different then a kid crying in a toy store.

    The devs don’t owe use any newsletters, or any merch. So just be thankful you do get newsletters and merch, atleast on the forums that the devs all read throughly. *edit* Or keep it to yourself, atleast supporters get access to dev round tables and development newsletters- traditionally this is stuff reserved for VIP only supporters(not us).

    Means must be made, with all projects if they’re going to see fruition; as a crowdfunder I don’t appreciate my peers negativly critisizing the content of the newsletter or the specifics of the crowdfunding techniques, most particularly on the official boards of whatever I’m crowdfunding. If any opinion open for discussion has merit, it’s that.

    Also, I think the newsletter is a sufficient amount of material to hold me over till next month and I love the new character design on the merch :)

    I'm sorry, but I don't feel like I'm attacking you, I never said you were a white knight I simply made the point if the tables were turned the argument would still be wrong on how it was put. There is no passive agressiveness on my end and thats why I usually dont post on forums because it's too hard to read the emotion of whats being typed. Yes, they don't have to give us newsletters or merch but because they chose to doesn't mean we can't critisize. That's the whole reason they put them up here in the first place. To inform and look for feedback. Brasse literally responded to my first post about the Merch store, stating it will be refined as things go along and that it was to help with more crowdfunding. So my point was just because Mom offers you a type of candy doesn't mean it has to be the one you want and the only way to let her know is by telling her. No wrists should get slapped for that, thats all.

    With the exception of the newsletter feeling like it was barely different from the last (as I am 1 of many that have expressed this) I'm happy with the state of the game. But if something is a concern to me or someone else whether it be finacial status, the development of the game, if Alpha will be here before 2081 those are all rights of everyone crowdfunding this and questions that deserve answers. It's not nay saying its saying "yo, we support ya but give me a little more faith while I wait."

    Flip the coin and you are right there are many that will say its going to par compared to most other PA's in previous games etc. And that they are doing just fine. I will listen to and support both sides so long as it makes sense. And I'll state my opinion on either side depending on the subject. Debate.

    I'm not here to bash you, call you out, to say you are wrong, I'm simply just another customer waiting in line to see whats next with a ton of questions and critiques (right or wrong is up to the devs).

    Cheers man thanks for taking the time to post back!

    Tomkins

    • 107 posts
    September 18, 2019 11:42 PM PDT

    OGTomkins said:

    Grime said:

    Im glad that we can see eye to eye about knowing that the game will be great when it comes out.

    Can you reread that passive aggressive 3 paragraphs you wrote that are a direct attack on me and my character before you argue that I’m starting drama and dividing the community with my white knight-ness? Maybe send me a DM next time.

    Its a technique you’re using to write, how you present your contradictive and hypocritical statements logically.

    Look, all I was trying to say is you chose to financially support what you hope to be a masterpiece. It’s not yours, or any other supporters place(okay besides whoever got to design a dungeon) to criticize crowdfunding techniques or the quality of the newsletters.

    If you’re going to complain about the lack of material in the newsletters or the quality of the crowdfunding you’re nothing different then a kid crying in a toy store.

    The devs don’t owe use any newsletters, or any merch. So just be thankful you do get newsletters and merch, atleast on the forums that the devs all read throughly. *edit* Or keep it to yourself, atleast supporters get access to dev round tables and development newsletters- traditionally this is stuff reserved for VIP only supporters(not us).

    Means must be made, with all projects if they’re going to see fruition; as a crowdfunder I don’t appreciate my peers negativly critisizing the content of the newsletter or the specifics of the crowdfunding techniques, most particularly on the official boards of whatever I’m crowdfunding. If any opinion open for discussion has merit, it’s that.

    Also, I think the newsletter is a sufficient amount of material to hold me over till next month and I love the new character design on the merch :)

    I'm sorry, but I don't feel like I'm attacking you, I never said you were a white knight I simply made the point if the tables were turned the argument would still be wrong on how it was put. There is no passive agressiveness on my end and thats why I usually dont post on forums because it's too hard to read the emotion of whats being typed. Yes, they don't have to give us newsletters or merch but because they chose to doesn't mean we can't critisize. That's the whole reason they put them up here in the first place. To inform and look for feedback. Brasse literally responded to my first post about the Merch store, stating it will be refined as things go along and that it was to help with more crowdfunding. So my point was just because Mom offers you a type of candy doesn't mean it has to be the one you want and the only way to let her know is by telling her. No wrists should get slapped for that, thats all.

    With the exception of the newsletter feeling like it was barely different from the last (as I am 1 of many that have expressed this) I'm happy with the state of the game. But if something is a concern to me or someone else whether it be finacial status, the development of the game, if Alpha will be here before 2081 those are all rights of everyone crowdfunding this and questions that deserve answers. It's not nay saying its saying "yo, we support ya but give me a little more faith while I wait."

    Flip the coin and you are right there are many that will say its going to par compared to most other PA's in previous games etc. And that they are doing just fine. I will listen to and support both sides so long as it makes sense. And I'll state my opinion on either side depending on the subject. Debate.

    I'm not here to bash you, call you out, to say you are wrong, I'm simply just another customer waiting in line to see whats next with a ton of questions and critiques (right or wrong is up to the devs).

    Cheers man thanks for taking the time to post back!

    Tomkins

    I know your frustration my dude, and so do all the supporters and DEFINITELY the devs: because this frustration is their burden. It’s redundant though, the new newsletter forum is not the place to vent your frustration.

    This is the place we get hyped about the released material, and we cheer the fire. 

    Look at how far the game has come, go watch one of the first 2016 streams and then one of the PA ones from last year; see how the stationary dim campfire is now a brazen torch, almost inextinguishable. The amount of progress by such a small team is indenyable profound.

    What the torch is becoming is the first brazier: Project Faerthale. All braziers are going to be lit from the fire of this development. It’s important it’s done right and not rushed. They can rush later with cheap assets(trees and stuff) to release: because unity allows a very, very fluid asset exchange. However this development is the completion of fully fledged game mechanics.

    I’ll be honest, it is from my speculation and perception that one of the best community managers of all time responded to this thread because there was nothing but some Fire-quenchers that came out of the woodwork to start it off.

    Yours just happened to be the most elegant and reasonable of the bunch.

    Im into slaying dragons, and I think wizards are rad- I bet you do too. So in my opinion that makes us friends.

    So no disrespect friend, but we’ve already flooded this months newsletter thread with some arguably toxic drama. Both of our opinions of the newsletter has been said and anything further is inarguably side-topic and personal. I’ll always respond to DM’s :) we can even make a discord and vent our frustration together but only if when we’re done we talk about what our main is gonna be ;)

    • 326 posts
    September 18, 2019 11:58 PM PDT

     i think the newsletter is a lot of smoke and mirrors with no substance.  a few generic class questions ... meh. more video that could be rendered on an ipad in an hours time.  this newsletter just shows me i need to go away from this site, facebook, twitter etc (all things Pantheon) for 6-12 months and see if anything new happens in that time.  i guess i'll go cry for a while cause this game is 4 years away. (yes, i keep increasing my expected retail launch time frame.) i'm not even buying merch until i see something that is more than 3-5 demo zones. my $300 gift was enough until then. adding one more demo zone (PH) isn't enough for me. that just means there is 20-25 more zones to go after PH. long time. hope to see full world alpha (all 25+ zones) ready for testing by late 2021, late 2022. i have no doubt what so ever that this game will be amazing, best mmo ever possibly, if it ever actually has a retail launch and hasn't sold out to a game game studio.  i still find it amazing that will all the rich people in the world, no angel investor has put money down on pantheon. there has to be a reason behind that. 

     

     

     

    • 107 posts
    September 19, 2019 12:26 AM PDT

    Flapp said:

     i think the newsletter is a lot of smoke and mirrors with no substance.  a few generic class questions ... meh. more video that could be rendered on an ipad in an hours time.  this newsletter just shows me i need to go away from this site, facebook, twitter etc (all things Pantheon) for 6-12 months and see if anything new happens in that time.  i guess i'll go cry for a while cause this game is 4 years away. (yes, i keep increasing my expected retail launch time frame.) i'm not even buying merch until i see something that is more than 3-5 demo zones. my $300 gift was enough until then. adding one more demo zone (PH) isn't enough for me. that just means there is 20-25 more zones to go after PH. long time. hope to see full world alpha (all 25+ zones) ready for testing by late 2021, late 2022. i have no doubt what so ever that this game will be amazing, best mmo ever possibly, if it ever actually has a retail launch and hasn't sold out to a game game studio.  i still find it amazing that will all the rich people in the world, no angel investor has put money down on pantheon. there has to be a reason behind that. 

     

     

     

    You’re saying false things:

    There is an angel investor.

    I believe Brasse when she says merch shop is in beta.

    As another previous fire-quencher speculated the math: the most VR can make from the merch is like 30k, i bet that isn’t even payroll for a week, let alone **** like OVERHEAD. So as a gambling man, I’d gamble that this beta release of the merch store is by community request and nothing more.

    prices are high, to make it worth taking time from the game to slap some high res bran spankin new character painting on a tee shirt is worth that much.

    Watch VR take the store down after the sale is over b/c of feedback and never offer these designs again.

    Bet you’ll be kicking yourself for not getting that “original first edition limited janis sofa” tee shirt.

    Anyways like I said this is the problem with you guys coming out of the woodworks and pretending you keep up with the drops. Then other woods dwellers come out here and read this blatant fallacy thinking its real.

    Again, there is an angel investor- this was disclosed over a year ago.

    I’m done policing this forum, there’s way cooler places to be right now: like fan fiction.

    I apologise to anyone I’ve upset, in truth: I’ve been getting destroyed on Mordhau and I went down A few levels in the ranked and I’ve been taking it out in this board.

    Ive broken 2 keyboards playing this game, I haven’t done this since I used to play CS. I stopped playing CS b/c of Everquest. Never broke a keyboard playing EQ, did cry- twice....but never broke a keyboard- so I’m emotionally invested in this. It has to happen, for keyboards sake.

    I don’t mind shedding tears, it’s keyboards. I’m real particular- I like the nice heavy mechanical ones. I just really dont want to include keyboards into my budget anymore.


    This post was edited by Grime at September 19, 2019 1:03 AM PDT
    • 107 posts
    September 19, 2019 12:40 AM PDT

    Double post


    This post was edited by Grime at September 19, 2019 12:42 AM PDT
    • 1627 posts
    September 19, 2019 2:12 AM PDT

    Thanks for the awesome newsletter as usual. The hot question was really intetesting and the new lore character mysterious (I came to hope he is a dark myr because we lack frigging myr's lore and news).

     

    Keep up the good work despite the wave of hate / deceived players that seem to have switched their jacket and haunt the boards for a few months instead of taking a break.

    At this point, no info will ever fulfill the irrepressible hunger of concrete things that some are asking for, and their best bet is to loose interest for a couple of years.

    • 828 posts
    September 19, 2019 5:20 AM PDT

    Good news letter guys.  Keep up the good work.  

    • 38 posts
    September 19, 2019 7:57 AM PDT

    This was a good newsletter in the context of where we are in development. Do I feel a carrott is being dangled in front of my face, yes, but that is essentially what this phase of game development, marketing and crowdfunding is for. There are a lot of good points being brought up in this thread, none of which are worth arguing over versus simply discussing. Pleding to a game has inherent risk given that the game may never come out. Instantly, when you pledge you're built on hope and your money is gone. The money I spent to pledge is gone, and I'm ok with that. If the game comes out then I'll get to play it and I'm ok with that. If it doesn't then I'll continue with my life and I'm ok with that as well. To some may their own, we're all different. 

    At the end of the day, none of us have more passion for Pantheon then the development team. 

     

    In regards to the Newsletter directly, the information was beneficial. I found that the Warrior description was disappointing to me personally because of the excessive shield use. However, I will try a Warrior in Alpha and see how "offensive" a shield can be. If it doesn't satisy my expectation of a brawling warrior then I'll move on to another class. I appreciated this section and would love to see it remain in the newsletter with class information. It instantly brought invigoration to the piece and I appreciated that sense of progress.

    The artwork is neat, it has to start somewhere. I don't get super excited about artwork versus seeing an item in a game. Mostly just a personality/me thing. Same goes for merchandise, it makes sense to have a store but I'm not a huge fan of buying merchandise. Still just a personality/me thing.

    • 1697 posts
    September 19, 2019 8:08 AM PDT

    I do hope you keep with the 'Burning Questions' portion for all future newsletters.  That really has been the best feature of any newsletter to date.  As for the merch store?  Well, I think you would attract more buyers with lower pricing.  Far easier to sell 100 10oz branded mugs you can't heat in a microwave at $10 each than hope to sell 33 of them at $30 each.

    • 2510 posts
    September 19, 2019 8:22 AM PDT

    Excellent newsletter in many ways - although silent about timing and the discussion of funding left entirely to the imagination whether they have sufficient investment lined up already to get the game to alpha, beta or release. Each month more people respond to the good things in the newsletter by raising these issues. As witnessed in this thread. Reminds me of the old (and probably fictitious) interview of Lincoln's wife after his assassination. "But other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?" It is the 600 pound gorilla in the room.

    My favorite part was the discussion of important class abilities. This gave a lot of information critical to current thinking about how the game will work.

    • 71 posts
    September 19, 2019 9:01 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    I do hope you keep with the 'Burning Questions' portion for all future newsletters.  That really has been the best feature of any newsletter to date.  As for the merch store?  Well, I think you would attract more buyers with lower pricing.  Far easier to sell 100 10oz branded mugs you can't heat in a microwave at $10 each than hope to sell 33 of them at $30 each.

    I think Brasse did touch up on this subject saying (and don't quote me word for word) that they werent in charge of pricing? Maybe she was just talking shipping and handling costs or maybe both. But I remember reading something along those lines.

    • 30 posts
    September 19, 2019 9:13 AM PDT

    I wanted to address a few points after reading all these great posts. First, for myself, I am not demanding the development cycle to speed up.  I am not disappointed by progress so far. I have full faith that VR will make and release a great game.   

    As someone who has pledged my hard-earned money, way beyond the amount the retail game will cost, I do feel like I am not just a donor to a charity.  First, VR is not a charity.  They are a company and even though they may be privately held, they have shareholders.  They are here to make money.  Granted, they are doing something they are passionate about but, in the end, they want the game to be profitable so they too can make money.  Nothing wrong with that.    Also, I am getting a product for my pledge.  I am getting alpha access, along with beta and the game at launch.  I have already bought the game, though the product is not complete.  A previous poster basically said, you pledged your money, it is gone, so be positive otherwise don’t post here. 

    As a customer, I was disappointed with the newsletter.  Why was I disappointed?  I am so excited for this game!  I want to know as much as possible and I am excited about Project Faerthale.  Yes, the class info was great!  Reading about that really sounds like VR is making a great game.  However, they have been talking and talking about Project Faerthale, but nothing about it in the newsletter.  We all know that finishing that project will catapult development of Pantheon.

    The newsletter made a big deal about a new source of capital that would help speed up development.  Then it turns out it is a merch shop. Which is great, great for marketing and a nice to have for us passionate fans.  However, I feel like that part is smoke and mirrors as well.  My previous post had some math in it, and I won’t repeat that.  Will the merch store be profitable?  Sure.  If you were running a fan site and made the money you would be happy.  But we are talking about developing a video game where 10s of thousands of dollars don’t really have much impact on how fast you can develop your game. 

    On a final note, we as pledgers can and should express our concerns if we are respectful.  I didn’t read anything in the previous posts that I would call “cry baby” or “toxic”. 

    Thank you VR, keep on keeping on. 

    • 71 posts
    September 19, 2019 10:43 AM PDT

    Rzar said:

    I wanted to address a few points after reading all these great posts. First, for myself, I am not demanding the development cycle to speed up.  I am not disappointed by progress so far. I have full faith that VR will make and release a great game.   

    As someone who has pledged my hard-earned money, way beyond the amount the retail game will cost, I do feel like I am not just a donor to a charity.  First, VR is not a charity.  They are a company and even though they may be privately held, they have shareholders.  They are here to make money.  Granted, they are doing something they are passionate about but, in the end, they want the game to be profitable so they too can make money.  Nothing wrong with that.    Also, I am getting a product for my pledge.  I am getting alpha access, along with beta and the game at launch.  I have already bought the game, though the product is not complete.  A previous poster basically said, you pledged your money, it is gone, so be positive otherwise don’t post here. 

    As a customer, I was disappointed with the newsletter.  Why was I disappointed?  I am so excited for this game!  I want to know as much as possible and I am excited about Project Faerthale.  Yes, the class info was great!  Reading about that really sounds like VR is making a great game.  However, they have been talking and talking about Project Faerthale, but nothing about it in the newsletter.  We all know that finishing that project will catapult development of Pantheon.

    The newsletter made a big deal about a new source of capital that would help speed up development.  Then it turns out it is a merch shop. Which is great, great for marketing and a nice to have for us passionate fans.  However, I feel like that part is smoke and mirrors as well.  My previous post had some math in it, and I won’t repeat that.  Will the merch store be profitable?  Sure.  If you were running a fan site and made the money you would be happy.  But we are talking about developing a video game where 10s of thousands of dollars don’t really have much impact on how fast you can develop your game. 

    On a final note, we as pledgers can and should express our concerns if we are respectful.  I didn’t read anything in the previous posts that I would call “cry baby” or “toxic”. 

    Thank you VR, keep on keeping on. 

    Well said Rzar, well said.

    • 38 posts
    September 19, 2019 11:00 AM PDT

    OGTomkins said:

    Rzar said:

    I wanted to address a few points after reading all these great posts. First, for myself, I am not demanding the development cycle to speed up.  I am not disappointed by progress so far. I have full faith that VR will make and release a great game.   

    As someone who has pledged my hard-earned money, way beyond the amount the retail game will cost, I do feel like I am not just a donor to a charity.  First, VR is not a charity.  They are a company and even though they may be privately held, they have shareholders.  They are here to make money.  Granted, they are doing something they are passionate about but, in the end, they want the game to be profitable so they too can make money.  Nothing wrong with that.    Also, I am getting a product for my pledge.  I am getting alpha access, along with beta and the game at launch.  I have already bought the game, though the product is not complete.  A previous poster basically said, you pledged your money, it is gone, so be positive otherwise don’t post here. 

    As a customer, I was disappointed with the newsletter.  Why was I disappointed?  I am so excited for this game!  I want to know as much as possible and I am excited about Project Faerthale.  Yes, the class info was great!  Reading about that really sounds like VR is making a great game.  However, they have been talking and talking about Project Faerthale, but nothing about it in the newsletter.  We all know that finishing that project will catapult development of Pantheon.

    The newsletter made a big deal about a new source of capital that would help speed up development.  Then it turns out it is a merch shop. Which is great, great for marketing and a nice to have for us passionate fans.  However, I feel like that part is smoke and mirrors as well.  My previous post had some math in it, and I won’t repeat that.  Will the merch store be profitable?  Sure.  If you were running a fan site and made the money you would be happy.  But we are talking about developing a video game where 10s of thousands of dollars don’t really have much impact on how fast you can develop your game. 

    On a final note, we as pledgers can and should express our concerns if we are respectful.  I didn’t read anything in the previous posts that I would call “cry baby” or “toxic”. 

    Thank you VR, keep on keeping on. 

    Well said Rzar, well said.

     

    I concur, the only comment I would like to add to that is in regards to the merch shop. I wouldn't expect any business owner to expect a merchandise shop to fund much of anything the size of this project. I view this shop as fulfilling a sector that gives people an opportunity to purchase merchandise if they desire to. I am not one of those people so it doesn't really effect me but I am capable of understanding that some people are extremely excited about the store. Now those people have their fix and are able to continue their support in a different manner then they had initially done with a pledge. The revenue they generate from the store is probably insignificant in almost all regards. In doing so, they wouldn't open a store and draw net zero or negative on it. This is the result and I believe they achieved a goal by fulfilling the expectation of a merchandise store.

     

    They do state that 100% of the profits will be funneled back in to development. That may only be 0.1% of their developmental costs, which is 0.1% less then they had to pay through other means.

    • 44 posts
    September 19, 2019 2:10 PM PDT

    I have kept quiet long enough. I have followed Pantheon Rise of the Fallen for a long time. I have put up more money then I have ever put up for a game. With that said I feel like we are going backyards. I feel like a year ago even two years ago we were closer to a retail version then we appear to be now. Last year Brad and VR could be seen attending conferences and marketing the game. Could be seen posting here, Could be seen streaming the game and much more. You could hear the excitement in the newsletters for the game. All that has disappeared in my eyes. They have pulled the curtains shut. Shutting us the funders out. Instead of allowing us peaks into the production they seem to have decided to march someone out on stage and tell us very little what is going on behind the curtains. 

    This is not about any sort of time frame I do not mind waiting but when a company slows down communications things get worrisome. We have gone from seeing actual gameplay to now seeing the artwork of a tree or sword that has been made. If things weren't working out and they needed to backtrack we would understand. Everyone? No, but your fans would. 

    As a long-time funder, I am concerned about communication and how it has gone backward. 

    • 59 posts
    September 19, 2019 2:14 PM PDT

    I know I have been giving you all ( VR ) a lot of backlash lately. Frankly you have deservered it too. With that said. I do support you all. I agree with this store. I feel like you should have done it a lot sooner. Now some of my fellower pledgers talk about how it won't make a big difference / impmact on the bottom line. Now I know nothing about these thing. As my path in life was that of an American warrior like all the men in my family before me. I see it as a great way to also advertise. Me personally. I'm going to buy a baseball cap for me and all my boys along with that hoodie. We are going to gangster up in Pantheon rise of the fallen! :)

     

    I do wish you all would work on communicating with us better. I said this before but I'm going to say it again. I know you can't talk about all the innerworkers because certain companies that have never came up with an original ideal ever are waiting to steal from you. However you got to do a little better with the communication department.

    I do hope you can hire more people. I put my trust in you. I'm an old Marine. I'm hard but I'm fair. As long as you do NOT SELL OUT  and stand firm. I'll continue to support the development of this game.

     

    Now I know I need to take a break & walk away for a few weeks. That is exactly what I'm going to do. However before I go. My fellow plegers that keep talking about all these AAA companies. Don't make me laugh. When have they ever came up with an original idea? Blizzard has some sick demon fetish while WoW is a water down clone of EQ and yes I can keep going. But I stirred the pot enough. We have the original creator of it all. Brad take a bow my brother. Joppa your not bad either, but you better not add no more F'ing keying system garbage in the game or my opinion will rapidly chage about you.

    • 340 posts
    September 19, 2019 6:01 PM PDT

    Thank you again for the newsletter, I enjoyed all the reading and looking at the art as well as the weapons. Glad that the store is up and running to have another venue of support towards this project and glad that all proceeds will go towards development, still better than paying for overpriced soda and popcorn at a theater. It still boggles me that people get upset over the price of an item they are not required to purchase.

    Thanks again for the newsletter, I shall read a few more posts while eating some of this extra buttery and salty overpriced popcorn :)

    • 170 posts
    September 20, 2019 5:20 AM PDT
    Can’t use quotes from mobile for some reason, but as @Paloo Vander and others pointed out, we are all well aware we pledged money (which some see as a donation, Which semantically is fine because the outcome remains the same), for, Regardless, businesses have ethical decisions to make (eg Pantheon communication to the pledges who keep their lights on), which ultimately pave the future of their public image and continued Kickstarter support. We all know they aren’t legally obliged to give us any information, much like big businesses who market their game a certain way, then it fails and people feel cheated (no man’s sky, the new BioWare game, etc) so they decide you know what this isn’t right. We know we have yore money, but look how upset and betrayed you all feel. So obviously they go and for the next 3 years develop free content and completely overhaul the game at no cost. Pantheon devs have made a decision to go the other way most companies do and keep us in the dark. Well, people have responded in accordance to their ethical decision.

    If you want change, your wallet is THE BEST way to speak. Marketing 101. You want communication and respect from who you’re funding, don’t pull your wallet back out for mugs and shirts until you start getting the equal respect you have for visionary realms. And if you do, don’t point the finger at anyone but yourself when you realize on PFs release, we still have 2 more years minimum to hope for a release. Again, say what you will about development, but streams, hype, progress has halted since the coh streams. Things were rocking HARD a couple years back when the streams had such massive updates. Marketing does not trash that strategy unless they have nothing to show. You don’t get crowd funded by not showing progress, they know that. We hit a spike in funding back then, so they spent on development, then the Angel investors they expected to close it out just didn’t come. Story as old as time. It’s clear that after 3 recent years of development, something wasn’t enough to rope in investors, so now they re strategized and prioritized/riding on PF as a last wing for investment, which is a sound plan..My thing is...I really just hope they aren’t sitting on 2 mill of our crowd funded money, so that in case they don’t hit the number they need to complete game, they fold and divide money up as salaries (when they could spend that money or part of it by giving this game their all and actually hiring world builders). It’s clear they have money saved they said they are waiting to hire assets for the team, but yeah it’s been years and we don’t have enough zones mechanics or combat evolution to properly portray pantheon 4 years in development without completely overhauling their process(ie creating PF), so it begs the question; why are you holding onto the money in your pocket when we need more development for crowdfunding? It’s a difficult decision, one that ultimately the CEO is making, but they’re definitely sitting on a chunk of money, which to be fair can be for many reasons...

    Again I want this game more than anyone, and it’s their right to stay tight lipped (they must clearly think it is better in the long run in some way), but I just don’t think they’re able to fool anyone as the lack of progress is noticeable has inundated funding/crowdfunder trust. it is stressful to log on and see so many people feel unappreciated. to see forums with less and less new posts. To see less articles on mmorpg etc (we actually converted the haters andgor them excited for pantheon, and that August letter crushed it all). Just Don’t waste your hard earned money and throw more pennies into the wishing well until you see some sort of reciprocation, just goes back the to fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me thing. Take a step back from the hype and game we all love/hope for and see the big picture. Expect the worst and hope for the best ✌
    • 686 posts
    September 20, 2019 6:15 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Kurgon999 said:

    Think of us like shareholders in a private company. 

    Accurate if you think of us like donors to a cause, because that is what we are. We are not investors or shareholders. We donated funds toward an idea in hopes maybe it someday sees the light of day.

    Yes and no @iksar @Kurgon999.  We actually "pledged" which is different than "donating".  A pledge is an "exchange" (services or money) and can be legally binding if a contract or money is involved.  We did not "donate" so please stop saying that.  Although we are not shareholders (because we actually have no shares), we are stakeholders and rightfully have a vested interest in our investments.

    • 107 posts
    September 20, 2019 7:24 AM PDT

    Darch said:

    Iksar said:

    Kurgon999 said:

    Think of us like shareholders in a private company. 

    Accurate if you think of us like donors to a cause, because that is what we are. We are not investors or shareholders. We donated funds toward an idea in hopes maybe it someday sees the light of day.

    Yes and no @iksar @Kurgon999.  We actually "pledged" which is different than "donating".  A pledge is an "exchange" (services or money) and can be legally binding if a contract or money is involved.  We did not "donate" so please stop saying that.  Although we are not shareholders (because we actually have no shares), we are stakeholders and rightfully have a vested interest in our investments.

     

    I see where you’re going, but you’re mistaken. See none of those words are really as synonymous as you’re presenting them.

    Theres a lot of posts with this entitlement of being “investors”.

    A pledge is a voluntary action to declare support for something, nothing more. That action to declare your pledge was a voluntary forfeiture of funds, or a donation. So with a donation, you have pledged for the hopeful development of Pantheon.

    Youre talking about the other kind of pledge. Where pantheon would have given us something in exchange, and they did- hence your activity on this board being one of them. The other ones, were promised upon if the game releases- it’s all in the print on the pledge page.

    Good news, it was disclosed a that they’re funded to release!!! WOO HOO!

    Go make an Etrade account with 100$ and buy two shares of something to become a stockholder. At the end of the year if you did REALLY REALLY GOOD you’ll have 115$ from an investment.

    Anyone who has an emotional investment in a buisness can be considered a steakholder. However if this was a card table VR would actually be considered the steakholder...

    You’re not nessessarly anymore invested in the game then the die hard fan who doesnt have the money to pledge.

    Did I miss the tweet that said the thread for the September newsletter was going to be “The Official Roast of VR!” or something? I‘be only got da Gram.

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Grime at September 20, 2019 7:36 AM PDT
    • 170 posts
    September 20, 2019 8:05 AM PDT
    Yes Grime, the word he was looking for was ethics. People who love the game and pledged a lot of money assumed they would get that same respect back. They chose to keep those people who pay the bills in the dark, and they responded accordingly. What’s next? You say VR has the right to delete our comments too? Sure, they can, and again ethics. By making their decision to shut people out, their public image has shifted. The hype is dead in a lot of websites now because of lack of progress. It’s one thing to miss dates by a quarter; people, we are missing dates by years lol. Not enough tangible substance to show the game’s core features almost 4 years in? We love this game, if we didn’t, we wouldn’t respond. It’s not crying, it’s a plea for a change in marketing and crowdfunding strategy for the sake of the game. The less that’s said, the worse people assume; that’s the nature of any development project. Showing no progress and saying we will have PF and additional PA phases next year just showed everyone that nothing is done. Showed everyone that all of the work and crowdfunding got them almost nowhere. It’s going to take 2 project faerthales at this point. I can already see it now. stream is a success but eeeyone typing “well that’s one zone out of 50 done in 4 years, so why should I fund now?”


    They’ve also made it clear they’re sitting on money waiting to hire assets. Again, ethical decision. I would hope they would want to go out with a bang if this does fail (ie spend the money we provided on developers as opposed to keeping it in your pocket for whatever reason, for the game clearly needs to demonstrate development progrsss before people feel inspired to pledge. I don’t know, ashes of creation and a few other big MMOs in dev recently flopped so hard...I feel there is something else at the top level preventing angel investors. The market is so primed right now the conditions will not and possibly have not ever been as good as they are now, yet we can’t land a single big angel with all of our big streamers, consecutive years #1 anticipated mmo....like small trash mmo games get more angels than we have....
    • 37 posts
    September 20, 2019 3:59 PM PDT

    Dear VR,

    Most organisations across the entire planet have a 'complaints department', and I'd be monumentally surprised if any one of them had a 'compliments department' to deal with the influx of positive feedback, because it simply does not happen. In short, those that complaint really are the minority, they just bang their spoon the loudest and they are incredibly demoralising for every community they fester in. It's why Twitter is such a cesspool, it's clearly a contributer to the decline of mental health across the planet in recent years and it's painfuil to see it happening here. I love the newsletters, this one included, and I, along with the silent majority, appreciate the effort.

    I genuinely dread to think of the amount of time and resources (which could be invested in the development of the game) that have to be wasted managing the expectations of the entitled when you're developing a crowd funded game. Seriously, most games (particularly MMOs) that have been in development for many years wouldn't even be revealed at this point, let alone having to release relentless amount of content along the way. I don't envy you guys, I really dont (although I would love to be part of such an awesome project).

    If I win the lottery, I'll definitely invest a large chunk into the development budget, hehe!


    This post was edited by Shadowbound at September 20, 2019 4:02 PM PDT
    • 1 posts
    September 20, 2019 4:35 PM PDT

    Why do people complain so much every month... We should be thankful these guys are busting their butts off to bring us an amazing game! The sense of entitlement with people these days is just pathetic. Chill out and be grateful. VR is doing a great job so far and have been very transparent about everything since day one. You think the shirts are too expensive? Then don't buy them. Problem solved. If you really believe in the project support it by donating and staying positive. 

     

    -Much love

    • 686 posts
    September 20, 2019 5:24 PM PDT

    Grime said:

    Darch said:

    Iksar said:

    Kurgon999 said:

    Think of us like shareholders in a private company. 

    Accurate if you think of us like donors to a cause, because that is what we are. We are not investors or shareholders. We donated funds toward an idea in hopes maybe it someday sees the light of day.

    Yes and no @iksar @Kurgon999.  We actually "pledged" which is different than "donating".  A pledge is an "exchange" (services or money) and can be legally binding if a contract or money is involved.  We did not "donate" so please stop saying that.  Although we are not shareholders (because we actually have no shares), we are stakeholders and rightfully have a vested interest in our investments.

     

    I see where you’re going, but you’re mistaken. See none of those words are really as synonymous as you’re presenting them.

    Theres a lot of posts with this entitlement of being “investors”.

    A pledge is a voluntary action to declare support for something, nothing more. That action to declare your pledge was a voluntary forfeiture of funds, or a donation. So with a donation, you have pledged for the hopeful development of Pantheon.

    Youre talking about the other kind of pledge. Where pantheon would have given us something in exchange, and they did- hence your activity on this board being one of them. The other ones, were promised upon if the game releases- it’s all in the print on the pledge page.

    Good news, it was disclosed a that they’re funded to release!!! WOO HOO!

    Go make an Etrade account with 100$ and buy two shares of something to become a stockholder. At the end of the year if you did REALLY REALLY GOOD you’ll have 115$ from an investment.

    Anyone who has an emotional investment in a buisness can be considered a steakholder. However if this was a card table VR would actually be considered the steakholder...

    You’re not nessessarly anymore invested in the game then the die hard fan who doesnt have the money to pledge.

    Did I miss the tweet that said the thread for the September newsletter was going to be “The Official Roast of VR!” or something? I‘be only got da Gram.

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pledge

    @Grime - You are correct, we pledged, that is what I stated.  My post was in no way a "Rost of VR!" but instead a simple statement that we did not "donate" our money, but we "pledged" (view above link to understand what that is) and people that are concerned with feedback have every right to their concerns.  Simply stating that "you donated so shut up" is the absolute wrong response.


    This post was edited by Darch at September 20, 2019 5:57 PM PDT
    • 107 posts
    September 20, 2019 8:16 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    Grime said:

    Darch said:

    Iksar said:

    Kurgon999 said:

    Think of us like shareholders in a private company. 

    Accurate if you think of us like donors to a cause, because that is what we are. We are not investors or shareholders. We donated funds toward an idea in hopes maybe it someday sees the light of day.

    Yes and no @iksar @Kurgon999.  We actually "pledged" which is different than "donating".  A pledge is an "exchange" (services or money) and can be legally binding if a contract or money is involved.  We did not "donate" so please stop saying that.  Although we are not shareholders (because we actually have no shares), we are stakeholders and rightfully have a vested interest in our investments.

     

    I see where you’re going, but you’re mistaken. See none of those words are really as synonymous as you’re presenting them.

    Theres a lot of posts with this entitlement of being “investors”.

    A pledge is a voluntary action to declare support for something, nothing more. That action to declare your pledge was a voluntary forfeiture of funds, or a donation. So with a donation, you have pledged for the hopeful development of Pantheon.

    Youre talking about the other kind of pledge. Where pantheon would have given us something in exchange, and they did- hence your activity on this board being one of them. The other ones, were promised upon if the game releases- it’s all in the print on the pledge page.

    Good news, it was disclosed a that they’re funded to release!!! WOO HOO!

    Go make an Etrade account with 100$ and buy two shares of something to become a stockholder. At the end of the year if you did REALLY REALLY GOOD you’ll have 115$ from an investment.

    Anyone who has an emotional investment in a buisness can be considered a steakholder. However if this was a card table VR would actually be considered the steakholder...

    You’re not nessessarly anymore invested in the game then the die hard fan who doesnt have the money to pledge.

    Did I miss the tweet that said the thread for the September newsletter was going to be “The Official Roast of VR!” or something? I‘be only got da Gram.

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/pledge

    @Grime - You are correct, we pledged, that is what I stated.  My post was in no way a "Rost of VR!" but instead a simple statement that we did not "donate" our money, but we "pledged" (view above link to understand what that is) and people that are concerned with feedback have every right to their concerns.  Simply stating that "you donated so shut up" is the absolute wrong response.

    Goodness my dude how long did you search independent dictionary sites to find that definition? It’s not ever on the first page of google search for “pledge definition.

    Here is man unarguable definition:

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/pledge

    You're talking about the noun pledge, I’m pretty sure VR  is using the verb pledge. However it could be the noun.

    So let’s say it is the noun, it was disclosed on facebook a long time ago that its funded to completion so they did an addition drive to raise money to expand the team- and they did.

    Thats a record of keeping pledges. 

    As far as your impatience goes:

    https://mobile.twitter.com/aradune/status/419213075472842752