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August Newsletter Brings the Heat

    • 160 posts
    September 16, 2019 1:28 PM PDT

    Azzudien said:

    Aayden said:

    While im always itching for more..  Considering we know that the game is in an early development phase, lack of display does not equate to lack of progress in development.  To be frank, VR is not obligated to show us anything.  The information they decide to give to us is a privilage not a right.   

     

     

    Not quite true. This is partially being funded via donations which makes it more imperative than ever to be transparent. If some entity came in and funded the entire game then none of us would even know it existed at this point. Which is the case with many games, you only get the first word about it when they are close to Alpha.

    Since this game is in fact partially funded by donations, they should be giving more information. They reached out and asked for help on kickstarter, when that failed they continue to reach out and ask for money which many many of us jumped on board and gave them money to get things moving. We donated, we did not invest, there is no return on a donation but being respectful to those people, more information should be released. 

    I run a highly successful business and the only way to stay on task is to have goals. Those goals should be released to the people that gave money. If they do not have hard goals laid out, then previous posters are correct and it will never be released. Not all goals are met, but if you have zero goals you accomplish nothing.

     

     

    Just because they do not have a roadmap with publicly viewable goals does not mean that they dont have something internal.

    Quite frankly, they do not owe us a look at anything before it is ready and deemed viable for the public (or even testers).

    • 1171 posts
    September 16, 2019 3:23 PM PDT

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    • 1684 posts
    September 17, 2019 7:40 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    • 998 posts
    September 17, 2019 8:36 AM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    Nonsense! I've already considered this and there are several possible explanations. One simple easy one. (Hypothetical)

    I'm a gamer, and I just won the lotto for 200mil. Or maybe my name is Mila Kunis, Dave Chappell, Vin Diesel, Kanye West....(ALL known to be mmo players)  I'm looking forward to the release of Pantheon and I tell Brad, "I got you covered until release" pay me back after release +5% in payments and a lifetime sub.

    Done, game funded through release and no release date set.

     

    Edit: And I'm sure there could be a dozen other possibilities.


    This post was edited by Zorkon at September 17, 2019 8:38 AM PDT
    • 170 posts
    September 17, 2019 9:33 AM PDT
    I sympathize with the hopeful scenarios some of us have come up with in response to the lack of tangible progress per pantheon. Bottom line they’re very aware of how marketing works in this generation/demographic of gamers and they’re also well aware of how fickle they are; I continually use Ashes of Creation as an example, because it is convenient and pertinent. Their entire player base is against them after spending about a quarter or less time in development as pantheon has been.

    What I’m getting at, is they are well aware there is no “marketing/funding advantage” by continually missing soft development milestones, and then implicitly telling us there isn’t a single completely finished zone or enough completed zones/mechanics to even properly convey via stream the strengths and evolved tactical combat, weather systems in battle etc after a solid few years of development. Theyve also literally said they need to hire more world builders as that is the “one most time consuming processes in development.”

    So with all of these scattered bits of information we’ve leveraged over the past couple years, it’s pretty easy to see they don’t have significant World building done, major mechanics done, some of the classes done, and then of course other major things like crafting etc we can safely assume there is virtually nothing involved there since it is still just verbal postulation via the round table. They followed a very linear pattern for releasing development updates via streams newsletters etc, and it is very clear progression has substantially halted since the streams with coh etc started a couple years ago. We would get a significant update every few months. It was working very well, forums were buzzing etc. There is no reason they eschew from that marketing strategy unless they had no new/significant content to show off. Like others have mentioned, if you take into consideration the bits of information they’ve given on development and plot that on a graph vs time, it’s clear to see this game would not be out for another 5 years at this CURRENT rate. There’s no one that wants this game more than myself, so I’d love to be proven otherwise, but I just don’t see it : (
    • 55 posts
    September 17, 2019 9:56 AM PDT

    Honesty goes a long way. People will respect honesty, people do not respect getting treated like fools. Do away with the B.S.. Do away with the smoke and mirrors and talk to your "adult" supporters like we are adults! If you are behind for "X" reason tell your supports. Most of us will understand and have your back, but that isn't what VR is doing now. VR is playing head games with a lot of smoke and mirrors and a major lack of "communication". When a mans word no longer means any thing, that man no longer means any thing. He becomes a joke.

    • 699 posts
    September 17, 2019 12:42 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    Nonsense! I've already considered this and there are several possible explanations. One simple easy one. (Hypothetical)

    I'm a gamer, and I just won the lotto for 200mil. Or maybe my name is Mila Kunis, Dave Chappell, Vin Diesel, Kanye West....(ALL known to be mmo players)  I'm looking forward to the release of Pantheon and I tell Brad, "I got you covered until release" pay me back after release +5% in payments and a lifetime sub.

    Done, game funded through release and no release date set.

    Edit: And I'm sure there could be a dozen other possibilities.

    Sure you're not actually Giorgio A. Tsoukalos? Maybe Ancient Aliens will finish Pantheon for VR.

    Yeah, thats the ticket.

    • 699 posts
    September 17, 2019 12:47 PM PDT

    Vander said:

    Honesty goes a long way. People will respect honesty, people do not respect getting treated like fools. Do away with the B.S.. Do away with the smoke and mirrors and talk to your "adult" supporters like we are adults! If you are behind for "X" reason tell your supports. Most of us will understand and have your back, but that isn't what VR is doing now. VR is playing head games with a lot of smoke and mirrors and a major lack of "communication". When a mans word no longer means any thing, that man no longer means any thing. He becomes a joke.

    It has nothing to do with honesty. Every game developer thats ever existed "honestly" wanted to make their game. And 'honestly' thought they were on the way to making their game, at some point.

    Now having the actual talent, skills and resources to do so. Not so much.

    You're basically making the case against VR since Brad failed twice before in being honest, and others had to finish his games. And those games weren't using pledged monies.

    • 998 posts
    September 17, 2019 5:16 PM PDT

    zewtastic said:

    Zorkon said:

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    Nonsense! I've already considered this and there are several possible explanations. One simple easy one. (Hypothetical)

    I'm a gamer, and I just won the lotto for 200mil. Or maybe my name is Mila Kunis, Dave Chappell, Vin Diesel, Kanye West....(ALL known to be mmo players)  I'm looking forward to the release of Pantheon and I tell Brad, "I got you covered until release" pay me back after release +5% in payments and a lifetime sub.

    Done, game funded through release and no release date set.

    Edit: And I'm sure there could be a dozen other possibilities.

    Sure you're not actually Giorgio A. Tsoukalos? Maybe Ancient Aliens will finish Pantheon for VR.

    Yeah, thats the ticket.

    Would seem you don't pay very close attention to what going on. 

    They have repeatedly mentioned Angel Investor, or I’m pretty sure that was plural as Angel Investors.

    Or maybe your just not aware of what an Angel Investor is.

     https://www.investopedia.com/terms/a/angelinvestor.asp

     As for Giorgio, I would doubt it, His Net Worth is only 4mill and I can’t find anything saying he was ever into MMO’s

    But as for the SMALL list I gave, all are known to be MMO players

     Mila Kunis,   $65 million

    • Dave Chappell, $50 million
    • Vin Diesel, $200 million
    • Kanye West  $250 million

    All totally able to gamble a mill or two in order to see Pantheon through to launch.

     

    Earlier today out of courosity I actually had this list up to 15 famous people all worth well over 50mill each

    William Shatner Plays MMO's $100mill

    • 2 posts
    September 17, 2019 6:04 PM PDT
    I wish I could be as hopeful as you Zorkon but the proof is in the pudding, and they're still only giving out samples of vanilla.
    • 998 posts
    September 17, 2019 7:07 PM PDT

    Cuatemoc said: I wish I could be as hopeful as you Zorkon but the proof is in the pudding, and they're still only giving out samples of vanilla.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I've commented before about the info they are giving is just regurgitated crappie from months if not years ago, and "concept art" don't mean crap, any good artist could draw those pictures up in a day.

    My comments are directed solely at Vjek saying 

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    And then Vandraad agreeing with him..

    Nonsence!!, it's not impossible they are funded to launch without having a launch date, it's very possible. 

    • 55 posts
    September 17, 2019 7:09 PM PDT

    zewtastic said:

    Vander said:

    Honesty goes a long way. People will respect honesty, people do not respect getting treated like fools. Do away with the B.S.. Do away with the smoke and mirrors and talk to your "adult" supporters like we are adults! If you are behind for "X" reason tell your supports. Most of us will understand and have your back, but that isn't what VR is doing now. VR is playing head games with a lot of smoke and mirrors and a major lack of "communication". When a mans word no longer means any thing, that man no longer means any thing. He becomes a joke.

    It has nothing to do with honesty. Every game developer thats ever existed "honestly" wanted to make their game. And 'honestly' thought they were on the way to making their game, at some point.

    Now having the actual talent, skills and resources to do so. Not so much.

    You're basically making the case against VR since Brad failed twice before in being honest, and others had to finish his games. And those games weren't using pledged monies.

     

    I don't quite follow you. I'm not sure we are on the same page here. I'll put it another way. I'm talking about how they say they are listening to us and than repeat old mistakes. ( Like the keying system ) I'm talking about how they ( VR ) completely keeps us in the dark and try to compensate for it by what I refer to as head games with a lot of smoke and mirrors. That is an attack on my intelligence. I know VR can not tell us about the fine details of the innerworkings, but they can talk / communicate with us. So your word playing made no sence to me. Because that is all it was. A play of words. Empty words as far as I'm concernered. A failed attempt to play the old reverse psychology. VR has not been honest with us. "Honesty goes a long way"

    • 1684 posts
    September 17, 2019 8:20 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Cuatemoc said: I wish I could be as hopeful as you Zorkon but the proof is in the pudding, and they're still only giving out samples of vanilla.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I've commented before about the info they are giving is just regurgitated crappie from months if not years ago, and "concept art" don't mean crap, any good artist could draw those pictures up in a day.

    My comments are directed solely at Vjek saying 

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    And then Vandraad agreeing with him..

    Nonsence!!, it's not impossible they are funded to launch without having a launch date, it's very possible. 

     Alright, technically you are correct that they can be funded to launch without a launch date. What they have, instead, is an end point where, unless revenue comes in they will run out of money. So not a launch date, but a close-the-doors-turn-out-the-lights date.

    Visionary Realms is a company so they have expenses, fixed and variable..it's a long list. But their CEO knows exactly what their monthly costs are and how much money is in the bank.  Dividing the latter by the former gives a number of months the company can stay afloat if no additional revenue is obtained.  So they do have a date marked on the calendar representing a worst-case scenario. One cannot assume that new revenue will come in, only counting on it when it actually arrives. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. 

    So there is a date where this either gets released and starts generating revenue or the company folds.

    • 998 posts
    September 17, 2019 8:58 PM PDT

    Vandraad said:

    Zorkon said:

    Cuatemoc said: I wish I could be as hopeful as you Zorkon but the proof is in the pudding, and they're still only giving out samples of vanilla.

    Oh don't get me wrong, I've commented before about the info they are giving is just regurgitated crappie from months if not years ago, and "concept art" don't mean crap, any good artist could draw those pictures up in a day.

    My comments are directed solely at Vjek saying 

    Vandraad said:

    vjek said:

    If they are funded until launch, they have a launch date.
    Given the above, missing every public milestone makes their claim of "funded until launch" impossible.
    Sorry, can't say it any other way, logically. :)

    You have made a great point.

    And then Vandraad agreeing with him..

    Nonsence!!, it's not impossible they are funded to launch without having a launch date, it's very possible. 

     Alright, technically you are correct that they can be funded to launch without a launch date. What they have, instead, is an end point where, unless revenue comes in they will run out of money. So not a launch date, but a close-the-doors-turn-out-the-lights date.

    Visionary Realms is a company so they have expenses, fixed and variable..it's a long list. But their CEO knows exactly what their monthly costs are and how much money is in the bank.  Dividing the latter by the former gives a number of months the company can stay afloat if no additional revenue is obtained.  So they do have a date marked on the calendar representing a worst-case scenario. One cannot assume that new revenue will come in, only counting on it when it actually arrives. Plan for the worst, hope for the best. 

    So there is a date where this either gets released and starts generating revenue or the company folds.

    You have absolutely zero idea what there financial situation is or what arrangement or agreement or understanding is with this single or possibly multiple Angel investor(s) is.

    So you have nothing to back your claim but a line of BS. Nomatter HOW you twist or reword it, it's still based on no reliable info other than "because Vandraad says so"

    • 96 posts
    September 17, 2019 9:52 PM PDT

    ((What's the buzz? Tell me what's happening...))

    Why should you want to know?
    Don't you mind about the future
    Don't you try to think ahead
    Save tomorrow for tomorrow
    Think about today instead

    ((What's the buzz? Tell me what's happening...))

    I could give you facts and figures;
    ((When do we ride into Jerusalem?...))

    Even give you plans and forecasts;

    ((When do we ride into Jerusalem?...))
    Even tell you where I'm going.

    ((When do we ride into Jerusalem?...))

    Why should you want to know?
    Why are you obsessed with fighting?

    Times and fates - you can't defy!
    If you knew the path we're riding,

    You'd understand it less than I.

    ((What's the buzz? Tell me what's happening...))


    This post was edited by Nasotha at September 17, 2019 9:52 PM PDT
    • 40 posts
    September 18, 2019 12:21 AM PDT

    At this point I'd be happy just to know how many PA phases are planned.

     

    I mean they must have some sort of plan here in place, and I don't know why it's being kept a big secret, they must know what they want to accomplish with each PA phase in the very least?

     

    Has this ever been officially mentioned and perhaps I just missed it?, why so secretive about this? I agree totally (Smoke and mirrors) they aren't giving away game mechanics they don't want to show yet, just information on where they're at in this phase would be big news to many people I would think?

     

    I honestly don't read the news letters except to know where they are development wise and that info is just never present.

    • 510 posts
    September 18, 2019 1:33 AM PDT

    Just a few quotes to illustrate the point about the worrisome "glacial pace".

    We also finished a major development milestone last month and have a playable version of the game at its core – you can create a character, choose from up to five classes, and play in one of five zones from levels 1 to 10. Mobs spawn, items drop, inventory, merchants, and banks work, combat is a lot of fun, and the core foundation upon which we will build the rest of Pantheon is now in place. We are currently hard at work tuning and tweaking this foundation, internally testing these zones as well as the in-house zone we call the ‘Danger Room’, looking through detailed combat logs and bug reports and adjusting formulas and data accordingly. Very soon we will be ready to start our next major milestone which will include the rest of the classes, higher level content, features, and functionality. When finished, it will put us in a great position to start bringing in external pre-alpha and the alpha testers.

    and

    I look forward to interacting with you all to a greater degree on the message boards, to posting some in-depth developer diaries, to watching and participating in this exciting PR plan, and, of course, to writing up my part of next month’s newsletter. In the meantime, it’s back to programming Pantheon’s gameplay and keeping our in-house content creation tools as useful and user-friendly as possible.

    Until next month,

    Brad “Aradune Mithara” McQuaid

    OK so as we already have a "playable version of the game at its core", did we get this information last month ? Well, no. Actually this article comes from november 2015. 4 years ago ! So what "milestones" have been met and what progress has been done during the 4 years so that today the major (not yet completed) milestone is the "Project Faerthale" which is basically a "playable version of the game" in a single zone ?

    When did we read  last an "in depth development diary" ? And when did Brad post last his reflexions about the state of the game or wrote up his part of the month's newsletter for that matter ? How are people supposed to stay interested (at least those who enthousiastically supported and pledged 5 years ago) when they get no information about what happened, why these delays and what can be expected in the future ?

    If the quoted major milestone was planned to be completed in 1 or 2 years, alpha should have taken place already 2 years ago yet in this August 2019 newsletter we have still no idea when Alpha could happen what pushes the release date still farther in some unspecified very foggy future.

    If this is not worrisome then nothing is .

     

    (The whole article for those interested is here : http://www.pantheonmmo.com/news/dev_diaries_1115/ )

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Deadshade at September 18, 2019 1:42 AM PDT