Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Item upgrades

    • 5 posts
    August 18, 2019 6:17 PM PDT
    I was thinking about one of my favorite RPGs "Suikoden" and how you upgraded your weapon. In that game, you didn't need to buy new weapons, you took yours to a blacksmith and had it sharpened which would increase it's stats and you would have to find different blacksmiths that could take it further and further.
    I know that model couldn't work in an MMO where gaining new items is such a key aspect. But I think a cool feature would be "leveling up" gear, say 5 levels or so. Like a sword called "Blade of Fallen King" when looted is level 1, but through a quest or ritual or even just a ton of use (like kill 500 enemies and do this, or take 50000 damage while having this shield equipped) you could take it to level 2 and make it better. The first couple levels maybe not to hard to accomplish but to get it to levels 3-5 would be time consuming, 5 being a form of an epic quest.
    I'm not sure of how Pantheon will handle the selling of gear once equipped. I loved EQ because nothing was soul bound, once you got an upgrade you could sell what you had been using. So in that vein, a leveled up item would fetch a substantial price because the buyer wouldnt have to put all that leg work in, thus creating a market for people that don't mind doing the work to get that extra money.
    Would also help with people that aren't in a guild that can aquire them the best in slot BP , but they can get the 3rd best, and level it up to 4-5 and have it be just as good as a level 1 or 2 of that Best in slot one.
    • 5 posts
    August 18, 2019 6:28 PM PDT
    The same could effect spells attached to an item. Like a bracer that has a right click +10 Agi (and maybe a 5 min cool down) on the wearer could be leveled up by right clicking and casting that spell say 200 times. Then it would proc +15 or 20 Agi. I just think it adds so much more depth and things to do to keep coming back
    • 1714 posts
    August 18, 2019 7:53 PM PDT

    Items need to have, in the first place, an iconic status, and then maintain it if there is going to be some upgrade process. 

    • 1315 posts
    August 19, 2019 4:12 AM PDT

    It doesn't really fit with Pantheon's Lore (as yet) but it would be interesting to have base items you could feed other like items to similar to the weapons in the Shield Hero manga.  Each new item of that type let you shape (with a little down time) the form and function of that morphing item based on all the other items that got fed to it.  One could still of course still use a dropped/crafted item or they could carry one set of morphing gear that a ton of other gear has been sacrificed to.

    • 1019 posts
    August 19, 2019 5:24 AM PDT

    Keno Monster said:

    Items need to have, in the first place, an iconic status, and then maintain it if there is going to be some upgrade process. 

    I like the idea of allowing an item to be upgraded once or twice. I also agree with Keno, this shouldn't be something that happens to all items.  It should be a heritage quest reward type item.  Few and far between.

    • 1921 posts
    August 19, 2019 6:56 AM PDT

    Imo, complete customization of all facets, features, numbers, appearance, effects and stats should be available for all skills, spells, and items.  But so far, not a design goal for Pantheon.

    • 18 posts
    August 19, 2019 7:11 AM PDT
    I like this idea, but maybe limit it only for special items (epics in EQ for example). Making it scale further with extra quests would be great to add to the longevity of the item.

    However, the only draw back would be that everyone would end up with the same piece of gear at high levels. Maybe an option to give the item custom stats/effects and appearance would add a bit of diversity. For example, an option to display a longer or curved blade on a sword, or flames/aura. Different hilts/pommels etc
    • 2419 posts
    August 19, 2019 7:46 AM PDT

    Mundane items should remain exactly that..mundane, ordinary, unremarkable. Iconic items should also remain as they are, unchanged and immutable.  They are iconic afterall. 

    If there would be some means by which to alter items, it should be limited in in both scope and the degree to which the item can be changed.  I would not be opposed to a EQ1 Lost Dungeon of Norrath style augment system, though even that had issues where you could stack a lot of same-effect augments across all your weapons/gear.

    • 3852 posts
    August 19, 2019 8:02 AM PDT

    DAOC had many pieces of gear that leveled-up with you.

    LOTRO has legendary items that are never replaced but the grind to keep upgrading them with scrolls and crystals is mind-numbing.

    I prefer any upgrades to gear to come from replacing the gear with quest rewards, items that drop or crafted gear. I do not at all like a system that makes all weapon drops, crafted weapons and quest reward weapons totally irrelevant if you already have a "permanent" weapon that merely needs to be upgraded now and then. Ditto of course for any other gear. 

    The idea is superficially good and leads to some nice systems for getting the "permanent" item and the initial upgrades. Over time it leads to (1) irrelevance to any available items that could have gone in the same slot and (2) more and more grinding for not very ...interesting ... things such as the scrolls and crystals LOTRO uses. Or even worse if the gear upgrades by itelf when you gain enough item experience - no need to ever do anything with respect to that slot. Takes away a lot of the fun of looking for and getting upgrades.

    Importantly, it also reduces the value of crafting unless you use crafted items to upgrade the item. If you have a "permanent" weapon you don't really have a lot of need for a weaponsmith do you?


    This post was edited by dorotea at August 19, 2019 8:03 AM PDT
    • 520 posts
    August 26, 2019 4:57 AM PDT

    I'd be fine either way, but i think that the way Pillars of Eternity 2 does it would be pretty nice - so basically couple of tiers of general enhancement - adding accuracy and dmg AND more importantly adding severals paths to upgrade secondary stats/unique weapon features. I'm strongly against the way that many MMOs does it - enhanting weapon/armor to tier 10-15+. It would also be pretty neat if given item would basically (more or less) scale to our level - resolving the fact that you can equip your low level add with legendary items obtained by your main - so Flaming Sword would visibly be covered in strong flame at max level while at level 1 it would be berely visible flame/spark at the tip of the sword, followed by similar change in stats.

    • 2756 posts
    August 26, 2019 5:54 AM PDT

    I think the options to sharpen, enchant, make holy, etc. would be good as long as not too fundamental or great a change to the item.  It would be nice if 'enhancements' were double-edged (excuse the pun) such that a specially 'sharpened' sword may do more damage to flesh (less armoured opponents), but less to, say, skeletons, clay golems and opponents with a lot of armour that really need blunt weapons.

    The LotRo way was interesting, but was quickly a huge faff and annoyance and somewhat OP.

    • 238 posts
    August 27, 2019 10:52 AM PDT

    I firmly believe in being able to enchant weapons, sharpen weapons or make modifications to them through other professions. I'm ok with the concept of taking a broad sword and using it in a blacksmithing recipe to make a stronger weapon. I think that this form of artificial leveling is ok and it gives profession another way to profit as they advance.

    I personally am not a fan of weapons that level up with you though. WoW did this in their Legion expansion with artifact weapons and during this time period it was impossible to obtain new weapons. It honestly removed weapon uniqueness for an entire expansion. I think that even allowing a weapon to level up 5 levels would negatively impact weapon diversity and I'm not a huge fan of that concept. Weapons depending on their implementation (i.e special combat text) can provide additional strategic gameplay depending on the situation, and I feel as if the concept of leveling weapons could negate this strategic component. 

    I think that if there was a weapon that was capable of leveling up with the player it would need to be considered legendary in quality. I am not opposed to seeing a legendary function in this way, and this system could potentially tie into the class epic weapons allowing players to eventually make these already outstanding items even more outstanding. 

    • 41 posts
    August 29, 2019 6:48 AM PDT
    I'm sure there will be items like the Coldain ring quest in EQ where you have a base item but through a series of harder and harder quest the stats/procs increase.