Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Free start content/Tutorial

    • 145 posts
    July 28, 2019 3:48 PM PDT

    SoE did this in Vanguard and I thought it was an exceptional idea. They implemented the Isle of Dawn. It gave people a chance to experience the game for free to basically level 10. They got to experience all aspects of the game to that point. Crafting, Diplomacy, Adventuring, harvesting and even flying mounts...all the bells and whistles. Implementing this seemed to invigorate the game quite a bit after the horendous start it got off to. People that vowed they would never spend another dime had a chance to come back and see what the game was like without having to.

    The only drawback I seen to it was the starting areas that were once popular became ghost towns, but only to the level that Isle of Dawn let you get up to. One could argue that implementing this would cut down on the amount of low level development that is needed for those starting areas.  I think it's important to have this aspect because there is a massive amount of people who play only free games and donate to cash shops if they get to play it and get immersed in it. This will bring those players in and give them a chance to see if it's worth spending the money on. You could give them this sandbox and then when it comes time to get off this island or this tutorial they are sent to their respective races capital. Or even another capital that is closer to their friends so that they can join up and play together faster. Vanguard was kind of a pain getting friends together if they didn't start the same race.

    I realize that Pantheon is creating this game for a certain type of player, mostly those who like a challenge and want to get away from the mindless questing and back and forth. But that doesn't mean that something like this wouldn't be effective at drawing in more players. I remember starting new characters and taking them through the Isle of Dawn and I was always fascinated at how many people were there. Even when the game itself seemed like a ghost town. People still downloaded it and logged in to see what the game was about. 

     

    • 633 posts
    July 28, 2019 4:28 PM PDT

    I agree with the free trial, but why does it have to be separate content?  Why not just let them start where everyone else starts?

    • 49 posts
    July 28, 2019 4:29 PM PDT

    I believe they said they will aloow all to play to lvl 5 or 10 to decide if they want to play.

    • 187 posts
    July 28, 2019 4:35 PM PDT

    Gold sellers, bots, & spammers love free trials

    Hopefully they will have solutions put in place to counter.


    This post was edited by Kastor at July 28, 2019 4:36 PM PDT
    • 49 posts
    July 28, 2019 4:37 PM PDT

    No chat would be one and no trading.


    This post was edited by Thawol at July 28, 2019 4:38 PM PDT
    • 145 posts
    July 28, 2019 4:40 PM PDT

    kelenin said:

    I agree with the free trial, but why does it have to be separate content?  Why not just let them start where everyone else starts?

     

    I believe this was mostly done to weed out gold spammers initially. At first you couldn't chat with people on the Isle of Dawn, but then when the game went on you could chat with them after they found out how to do away with gold spammers. Also I think it allows the more toxic community that has no intentions of subbing to be kept away from the gamers who actually subscribe to play.

    • 388 posts
    July 28, 2019 5:43 PM PDT

    I get the idea, but I think Brad/VR etc did a poll and the followers of the game voted to have separate starting areas for all races instead of doing the Isle idea like Vanguard and EQ2 used.

    I want my race starting city to feel like my home. like I was born there. 

    im sure vr has a plan for gold sellers. maybe GM insta-bans or something good like that. it's above my pay grade, i'll let Brad handle it. 

     

     

     

    • 1281 posts
    July 28, 2019 6:48 PM PDT

    I can't remember where the article is online, but there was some research done that showed free trials and demo's actually hurt game sales, not help them. The conclusion was that when someone does not make a financial commitment to a game they don't have an incentive to actually try it long enough to know if they really like it.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at July 28, 2019 6:49 PM PDT
    • 388 posts
    July 28, 2019 7:42 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    I can't remember where the article is online, but there was some research done that showed free trials and demo's actually hurt game sales, not help them. The conclusion was that when someone does not make a financial commitment to a game they don't have an incentive to actually try it long enough to know if they really like it.

    not trying to derail topic, but i read this same thing.

    • 1399 posts
    July 28, 2019 8:14 PM PDT

    Flapp said:

    bigdogchris said:

    I can't remember where the article is online, but there was some research done that showed free trials and demo's actually hurt game sales, not help them. The conclusion was that when someone does not make a financial commitment to a game they don't have an incentive to actually try it long enough to know if they really like it.

    not trying to derail topic, but i read this same thing.

    Also not to derail the topic, but this makes sense to me. When I finally bought EQ after seeing, and reading the box 3-4 weeks in a row. There was nothing stopping me from subbing and playing for years.  And back then there was no Streams, no YouTube, very little Word of Mouth..

    Even with the free trial or not... I dislike the Island or any noob zone, tutorial or whatever for all new players to start in. Starting racial city's are what they plan, and the only thing they should even consider. Will there be problems with it? Yes, of course. But some problems are simply not wort the "price" to fix them.


    This post was edited by Zorkon at July 29, 2019 7:22 AM PDT
    • 145 posts
    July 28, 2019 8:28 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    I can't remember where the article is online, but there was some research done that showed free trials and demo's actually hurt game sales, not help them. The conclusion was that when someone does not make a financial commitment to a game they don't have an incentive to actually try it long enough to know if they really like it.

    I can see some legitimacy to this. I do feel however that the amount of people that would eventually purchase a subscription from a free trial would be greater than those who wouldn't even try in the first place. If a person is going to play just a small fraction of the game and then disregard it you didn't want those players anyways. I just know I've played a few free to play games simply because they were free then ended up spending money on them. One could also argue that Pantheon probably isn't for the casual player and most of these trial players are casuals. I can see an argument there as well.

    As for starting city feeling like home, I always went wherever was the most convenient. I never felt like I had to go to Felwithe because I was a High Elf, I went wherever was closest that wouldn't get me killed. 

    I don't guess I've played another game other than Vanguard that had free starting content and eventually had to pay to play. The games I played were free with cash shops which I am definitely not a fan of. I find it hard to believe that giving out samples actually hurts sales. Especially when people are so eager to try something free. If the game is good enough it will suck them in. Vanguard was already on a steep decline when they implemented the IoD so my experience is a little limited.

    • 1479 posts
    July 28, 2019 10:47 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    I can't remember where the article is online, but there was some research done that showed free trials and demo's actually hurt game sales, not help them. The conclusion was that when someone does not make a financial commitment to a game they don't have an incentive to actually try it long enough to know if they really like it.

     

    That's interesting but I would have loved the article linked to understand where the datas are coming from and an analysis of them, or it's just a rock thrown in a pond...

    If it's true, it would be great to link it so VR can acknoledge it.

    • 145 posts
    July 29, 2019 6:45 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Also not to derail the topic, but this makes sense to me. When I finally bought EQ after seeing, and reading the box 3-4 weeks in a row. There was nothing stopping me from subbing and playing for years.  And back then there was no Streams, no YouTube, very little Word of Mouth..

    Even with the free trial or not... I dislike the Island or any noob zone, tutorial or whatever for all new players to start in. Starting racial city's are what they plan, and the only thing they should even consider. Will there be problems with it? Yes, of course. But some problems are simply not wort the price to "price" to fix them.

    This is comparing apples to oranges though. Back when EQ released it was one of a kind. It was the only thing going. There was no competition, there wasn't another game like it. I was the same way you were. As a matter of fact my older brother went out and bought me a copy the day it released so that I would have something to do while staying with him that summer. So I understand where you're coming from. I just think the MMO world has changed a thousand fold since then and whatever you can do to bring in new players is going to help in the long run.

    You're already fighting an uphill battle releasing the game. Let's say 1 million people play this game. It's a safe assumption that of that initial million people only 500,000 keep playing. They will gripe about something not being the way they want it and leave, which is fine it's inevitable. But having something that draws in people with little investment on their part isn't a bad idea. 

    If the Dev team is considering giving some of the game free to play to a certain level that's a lot of the same. It doesn't have to be a starter island like I initially listed. But some kind of bone to throw the free gaming community would go a long ways. Word of mouth helps, I have a lot of friends that play MMO's and I e-mail them and invite them to play what I'm playing. But there's so many more players out there that are just looking and keep hoping that something will give them the thrill that games like EQ and early WoW did. But they have been burned a lot and don't pay to play them.

    • 3852 posts
    July 29, 2019 6:54 AM PDT

    I suspect that a free trial will almost always bring in more people and that "research" is flawed in any number of ways. But I haven't gone out and looked at it so I could be wrong. 

    A poorly done free trial system will also drive out some subscribers so it may be a negative.  That is the balancing act.

    Based on many years experience (but no hard data at all) I would say that to benefit from a free trial a game needs two things. Firstly it needs at least average graphics and interface and starting area or people will simply leave after an hour (or 5 minutes). Secondly it needs a reasonably good game system (for a game like Pantheon that means a world with room to explore and a good choice of classes and races and skills) or else people that stick around for more than an hour won't see any reason to subscribe.

     

    I think we will easily pass my two-part test.

    • 1095 posts
    July 29, 2019 7:01 AM PDT

    This has been discussed here

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5310/trial-accounts


    This post was edited by Aich at July 29, 2019 8:40 AM PDT
    • 793 posts
    July 29, 2019 7:05 AM PDT

     

     

    When I do finally get to enter the world of Pantheon, I would be sorely disappointed to be stuck on some generic island seperated from the world. Especially until lvl 10. If levels are even somewhat difficult, it should take several play sessions to get to and past 10. IIRC in EQ it took me at least a week or more.

     

     

     

    • 145 posts
    July 29, 2019 7:07 AM PDT

    Isle of Dawn had addressed a lot of the problems as to why people quit Vanguard when it released. Other then the bugs of course that were worked out. Flying mounts were the biggest complaint. They weren't in game yet and they were on the box and I remember at least 25% of the gripes were about not having flying mounts. So Isle of Dawn had flying mounts.

    Isle of Dawn had the same amazing graphics the rest of the game did. It meshed well with the graphics once you got out of the game. And as someone who played the game outside the tutorial it wasn't much different than the rest of the game. It was probably 95% similar. There was a little room to explore, but mostly it was just to get people started and familiar with everything the game offers. As I said above it had quests you did for adventuring gear, harvesting, crafting and diplomacy. It let everyone sink their teeth into things they hadn't before. Vanguard had a very unique crafting system and Diplomacy was a lot of fun as well with cards and expressions and manipulating NPC's and raising city wide buffs for the passer by's.

    One problem I have when I play MMO's I'm the type that jumps right in and starts leveling. I don't read many things I'm out looking for adventure right away. Sometimes I skip over important aspects of a game because I don't take the time to learn them or it isn't brought to my attention. Isle of Dawn did this. You were made aware of all the little things the game offered so that when you left the island you kept pursuing Diplomacy and crafting because you saw the benefit it had.

    But you are very correct a poorly done system would in fact have a largely negative impact on the game as a whole. Vanguard gave you the option to starting at Isle of Dawn or starting city. So maybe implementing the option would help increase that and peoples opinions on it.

    • 193 posts
    July 29, 2019 7:13 AM PDT

    kelenin said:

    I agree with the free trial, but why does it have to be separate content?  Why not just let them start where everyone else starts?

    It wouldn't be hard to have both, honestly. You could have the 'island' area where trial accounts start. Once they hit level 10, they're locked - can't leave the island, can't chat, can't trade, etc. If they decide to subscribe, they're taken to character creation and can start a new character in the typical starting areas. I guess I'm saying make the 'island' a trial area, to match the trial account. People can get a good feel for the gameplay and characters, but it won't interfere with those who are already subscribed. What happens on the island, stays on the island.

    As an aside, it would also be easier for the devs. One area, one set of quests (maybe even one specific class or race quest), etc. 

    • 3852 posts
    July 29, 2019 10:25 AM PDT

    It wouldn't be hard to have both, honestly. You could have the 'island' area where trial accounts start. Once they hit level 10, they're locked - can't leave the island, can't chat, can't trade, etc. If they decide to subscribe, they're taken to character creation and can start a new character in the typical starting areas.))

    Not a chance of this working. The level 10 character would have to remain playable after it took a boat to one of the starter areas or maybe to one of the level 10 areas.

    • 1785 posts
    July 29, 2019 11:05 AM PDT

    Personally - I don't feel that an "island" starting area, whether it's associated with a free trial or not, is a good thing for the game long term.  Even if you give players the option to start in their home town, if everything else is equal, the vast majority of players will take the path of least resistance and start on the island because it's a common location for different races.  This, in turn, will lead to the home towns feeling empty and underpopulated.  So from a design perspective, I think it's better to stick to hometown starting locations exclusively.  This does a few things:  First, it insures a constant influx of people into those home towns as new characters are created.  Second, it allows the hometowns to become established as a sort of "home base" for the players that start there.  Obviously there's a lot more that needs to be done long-term to insure that hometowns stay revelevant for players long-term, but it's a lot easier to do it if people start there than to try to drag them back from somewhere else in the world later on.

    As far as free trials and gold spammers go, this has been discussed extensively in many other threads.  I don't think it needs to be rehashed.  I hate gold spammers as much as anyone - but I also think there's technology available to prevent them from being a massive problem without overly penalizing people who are on a trial.  This is just an area where VR should look at how other established games handle the problem today and learn from what they're doing.

    • 2752 posts
    July 29, 2019 11:20 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    That's interesting but I would have loved the article linked to understand where the datas are coming from and an analysis of them, or it's just a rock thrown in a pond...

    If it's true, it would be great to link it so VR can acknoledge it.

    I don't imagine you will get one because it is total nonsense. Heck even piracy, the ultimate "free trial" has been linked to increased sales. 

     

    The free trials for FFXIV have done very well for onboarding potential players.

    • 1479 posts
    July 29, 2019 11:34 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    That's interesting but I would have loved the article linked to understand where the datas are coming from and an analysis of them, or it's just a rock thrown in a pond...

    If it's true, it would be great to link it so VR can acknoledge it.

    I don't imagine you will get one because it is total nonsense. Heck even piracy, the ultimate "free trial" has been linked to increased sales. 

     

    The free trials for FFXIV have done very well for onboarding potential players.

     

    I expect so ^^, that's why I prefer a direct link to a quoted ghost article.


    This post was edited by Mauvais_Oeil at July 29, 2019 11:35 AM PDT
    • 73 posts
    July 29, 2019 12:02 PM PDT

    I would put a server as a free trial without any restrictions

    and from time to time the server will be reset , all characters deleted

    How often would they be reset?
    I don't know, it depends on the speed of the game in raising levels

    1 month
    3 months

    • 3852 posts
    July 29, 2019 3:41 PM PDT

    Nephele - you may well be right in terms of the downside to having a starter island.

    But if all subscribers start in their racial starter areas and the island is only for free trials - that may be better than having free trials isolated on their own server as some have suggested. 

    Those who leave will do the rest of us no harm and those who stay will need merely to take a boat across the Strait of Subscription rather than transferring servers or starting over.

    • 1315 posts
    July 29, 2019 5:03 PM PDT

    Personally I am in favor of a skippable solo tutorial zone that walks you through the character creation process and lets you try out different classes and learn about/pick a specific race. The general hand holding that is needed with new characters will be done here and scripted NPC combat can be used to even introduce the concept of grouping and how it works. Depending on which class you currently have active it runs you through the program in a role appropriate way. The tutorial could even have a crafting and or diplomacy walk through as well.

    At the end of the solo tutorial you pick your final class and race combo and get sent to a racial starting point. This could even send you at level 5 such that none of the starter cities need the level 1-5 areas that are typically solo and go right into group required content.

    To enter the real game world you need a paid subscription.