Keno Monster said:HemlockReaper said:MauvaisOeil said:HemlockReaper said:I vote for choosing it myself, I don't mind waiting to a certain level, or even have it approved by a VR Representative, but I don't trust a random name thought up by an unknown person.
I don't really think choosing vs having it forced was the point. It was mostly : At level creation or at a certain level attained, both beeing choosable.
I liked how it turned out in EQ (Lvl 20 for surname) but I don't feel it's logical. Our characters are supposed to have a familly, to be born somehow somewhere, thus in every culture where surname is transmitted to your descendance it's more logical to be baseline. However in a culture where a surname is earned throught accomplishment, it should be logical for it to be obtained later.
I'm stating my opinion with the assumption that “earning” means selecting from a list upon some achievement or reaching a certain level.
When I say choosing it myself, I mean typing it in, not selecting from a list. I don't know what details of the debate were regarding “he and the lead dev were debating between getting a last name at ch creation vs earning it.” ,but it seems more likely to be a debate over allowing players to make one up (regardless when) or be given one (or an option of a few) upon some completed critiea.
That's not it at all. He's talking about reaching a certain level or having to do some quest, perhaps, to earn the surname. Nobody has ever suggested that names be "forced" or limited to "selecting from a list". I have no idea where you are getting that but it has nothing to do with this topic.
Unless you were in the room during this debate, your making assumptions just like it did. That said, your probably right, but I never bothered with EQ so I don't base things off of that experience, as other may
A surname earned at a certain level or so i think is much better, because it gives the world you have traversed through an opportunity to impact the choice of your surname (or maybe it doesnt if your set on it from the get go) but you may have someone get to (for arguments sake) level 20 and have a real affinity to their characters/classes flavour and then you may well take as aspect from a feature of your class you really like and utilise it in the surname giving it more meaning to you.
It wouldnt bother me which way it ended up really, but my little example of this is was my Necro named Gothmogwort, people always joked around about the wort part and would do the whole ewww, where are your worts at Goth?? so at level 20 I decided on Gothmogwort Wortybum.. so the little interactions i was continually having in the world ended up carving my surname for me.
A friend who was a wizzie loved his fire spells and the firebolt etc so much that he gave his guy the surname Zu'Asche (to Ashes) because of his love for his fire spells :)
Just my experience, I can see a good argument for either!
I would rather not have a surname forced on me at all. I don't need a logic reason why, saying that the idea disgusts me is just fine. If it is an optional system, then more power to those that want it at all. Saying that, it seems logical that you choose it when rolling the character, let it suddenly and magically get displayed later if you wish to do the EQ way by earning it at 20. I do not think the devs want to make anyone feel they need to rush to a certain level and skip seeing the world just to lock in a favorite surname before someone else.
Also, I am on the other side of the fence as Nephele. I do not want there to be 2, 3, or more Nephele's in the game much less on the same server. When I get with friends, guildies, or even pugs; I get to know a character and the person behind the character first by their toons name (first name) and then over time I may develop something tighter knit where we exchange real names. Not once ever has this occured based around a characters last name. Far and away worse; I will not even try to develop anything tight knit with trash like #Chris 1496 (gamertags)... there is nothing friendship inducing about them.
Kellie said:I like having to earn it, it feels like an extra little goal you can aim for.
I agree. There was a lot of these little goals in EQ, bread crumbs that were nice. Surnames, spell book disappearing, bigger spell particles, things like that were always a nice little pick me up between spell levels.
HemlockReaper said:Keno Monster said:HemlockReaper said:MauvaisOeil said:HemlockReaper said:I vote for choosing it myself, I don't mind waiting to a certain level, or even have it approved by a VR Representative, but I don't trust a random name thought up by an unknown person.
I don't really think choosing vs having it forced was the point. It was mostly : At level creation or at a certain level attained, both beeing choosable.
I liked how it turned out in EQ (Lvl 20 for surname) but I don't feel it's logical. Our characters are supposed to have a familly, to be born somehow somewhere, thus in every culture where surname is transmitted to your descendance it's more logical to be baseline. However in a culture where a surname is earned throught accomplishment, it should be logical for it to be obtained later.
I'm stating my opinion with the assumption that “earning” means selecting from a list upon some achievement or reaching a certain level.
When I say choosing it myself, I mean typing it in, not selecting from a list. I don't know what details of the debate were regarding “he and the lead dev were debating between getting a last name at ch creation vs earning it.” ,but it seems more likely to be a debate over allowing players to make one up (regardless when) or be given one (or an option of a few) upon some completed critiea.
That's not it at all. He's talking about reaching a certain level or having to do some quest, perhaps, to earn the surname. Nobody has ever suggested that names be "forced" or limited to "selecting from a list". I have no idea where you are getting that but it has nothing to do with this topic.
Unless you were in the room during this debate, your making assumptions just like it did. That said, your probably right, but I never bothered with EQ so I don't base things off of that experience, as other may
There is zero chance they will make you choose a surname from a list they created. That would be certain death. I don't even care that much about my last name, but if I was forced into one like some single player RPG, I'd bail. Because what else are they going to force on me? It will either be you can have a surname, or you dont, like every other MMO to ever come out. Now when do you get a surname?? ... that's important. That's what's being discussed.
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I'd say earn it later. It was just a little something of a reward when you hit 20 in EQ and some people even chose at times to just keep the one name. Though I could see this being lopped into the Prodigy system with character lineage in some way.
Kastor said:HemlockReaper said:Keno Monster said:HemlockReaper said:MauvaisOeil said:HemlockReaper said:I vote for choosing it myself, I don't mind waiting to a certain level, or even have it approved by a VR Representative, but I don't trust a random name thought up by an unknown person.
I don't really think choosing vs having it forced was the point. It was mostly : At level creation or at a certain level attained, both beeing choosable.
I liked how it turned out in EQ (Lvl 20 for surname) but I don't feel it's logical. Our characters are supposed to have a familly, to be born somehow somewhere, thus in every culture where surname is transmitted to your descendance it's more logical to be baseline. However in a culture where a surname is earned throught accomplishment, it should be logical for it to be obtained later.
I'm stating my opinion with the assumption that “earning” means selecting from a list upon some achievement or reaching a certain level.
When I say choosing it myself, I mean typing it in, not selecting from a list. I don't know what details of the debate were regarding “he and the lead dev were debating between getting a last name at ch creation vs earning it.” ,but it seems more likely to be a debate over allowing players to make one up (regardless when) or be given one (or an option of a few) upon some completed critiea.
That's not it at all. He's talking about reaching a certain level or having to do some quest, perhaps, to earn the surname. Nobody has ever suggested that names be "forced" or limited to "selecting from a list". I have no idea where you are getting that but it has nothing to do with this topic.
Unless you were in the room during this debate, your making assumptions just like it did. That said, your probably right, but I never bothered with EQ so I don't base things off of that experience, as other may
There is zero chance they will make you choose a surname from a list they created. That would be certain death. I don't even care that much about my last name, but if I was forced into one like some single player RPG, I'd bail. Because what else are they going to force on me? It will either be you can have a surname, or you dont, like every other MMO to ever come out. Now when do you get a surname?? ... that's important. That's what's being discussed.
What was posted in the OP was “getting a last name at ch creation vs earning it.”
To earn it implies your getting your name based off of something you did, such as the way titles are earned, so its not unreasonable to think earning a last name might mean getting a last name associated with your deeds, Similar to the way peoples last names “surnames” once upon a time reflected their occupation.
So whats being discussed is the interpretation of something that was quoted from Brad's interview on the Countdown podcast.
I would break titles and surnames into different categories.
Your Surname is your clan/family name. You can join a clan/family the same way you can join a guild through an invite system. The clans will have more of a friends and family guild purpose and allow for a special group housing option when player controlled property comes in. If one of the characters on your account is a clan elder/officer when you create a new character that character can automatically be included in the clan. Starting a clan is something that is a little more involved and will require both resources and quests to start and more of both to increase the clan rank.
Titles on the other hand should be earned through character actions. It could be cool if you could actually combine multiple achievements into one title that is a composite of the available words from the different titles with a part of speech template that must be followed. Those part of speech templates themselves can be the result of specific achievements.
In game a player should be able to select to see just the personal name, personal name and surname or personal surname and title above player’s heads. The full character name will be visible when inspecting or in guild/group windows.
Back in the Medieval times ones surname had some weight to it, whether that be because you were born into a rich family of nobles or you were given one because of how good you are at your craft. This is what i would like for Pantheon to have as well as it'll make your name mean something rather then just be a block of text that's only really relevent on which toon you'd play. Now i'm unsure how one can 'decide' to be born into a family of 'nobles' without either restricting it as it's not like there are millions of those types around. But still, it'll be great to see my surname have some impact on the world while i'm out adventuring. Like for instance something like this:
"Greetings {Forename} Smith! Rumors of your talents have sparked interest in many a folk. If it won't be to much of a bother for you, {NPC} would love to hire you for a job but be forwarned as there be rumors of her having some sorta shrine to your talents"
Kratuk said:I'd say earn it later. It was just a little something of a reward when you hit 20 in EQ and some people even chose at times to just keep the one name. Though I could see this being lopped into the Prodigy system with character lineage in some way.
This would be my preference. Surname is optional at some milestone, level, etc., but not required. Progeny - well, it could be a way of passing along a name, but we don't really know enough about it just yet, so I'll defer on that until we do. :)
Surnames aren't some status symbol... Presumably our characters were born into a family, and their surname follows some sort of cultural norm. Walling it off with some level/questing requirement doesn't make any sense.
Also, not every culture follows the same naming conventions - so a "surname" may follow completely different rules from one species to the next. Consider FFXIV and the surname rules for Sun Seeker miqo'te (females take their father's name as a surname, minus the tribe prefix; males take either Tia or Nunh depending on their role in the tribe) vs Xaela au ra (your surname is your tribe's name).
I think it would be fine to allow for the option of having a surname at creation, because as many people have stated, it could be integral to a character's own story. Perhaps they should add a feature when characters reach a certain level they can choose to change it or add one, carving their own place in the world or retaining the pride of whatever bestowed the original name (or the lack thereof) in the first place. And maybe changing your last name often (after that first change or add-on) would result in a loss of general reputation, as the people confuse that Larry Suchandsuch is the same as Larry Thisandthat.
What they're talking about it the ability to have a last name, one you type in and fill out for yourself. So at the begining, you choose a name. But after a certain point- one game had it when you reached level 20- another blank appeared and you could choose your last name- not from a list, but there was a blank where you could fill in what you wanted (provided it didnt break any Rp rules)
Oh sure, there were people who chose a namelike "Debbido" just waiting for the day when they could choose their last name as "esHalas" took a while, but they got talked to. Likewise Oogli -then Faqr for a troll or ogre.
More coolness factor than anything- with a slow leveling curve it was an easily identifieable milestone that meant at least a year of casual play (2 hrs every other day and 8 hrs on weekends) and an assumed level of proficiency in the character.
Hokanu said:A surname earned at a certain level or so i think is much better, because it gives the world you have traversed through an opportunity to impact the choice of your surname (or maybe it doesnt if your set on it from the get go) but you may have someone get to (for arguments sake) level 20 and have a real affinity to their characters/classes flavour and then you may well take as aspect from a feature of your class you really like and utilise it in the surname giving it more meaning to you.It wouldnt bother me which way it ended up really, but my little example of this is was my Necro named Gothmogwort, people always joked around about the wort part and would do the whole ewww, where are your worts at Goth?? so at level 20 I decided on Gothmogwort Wortybum.. so the little interactions i was continually having in the world ended up carving my surname for me.
A friend who was a wizzie loved his fire spells and the firebolt etc so much that he gave his guy the surname Zu'Asche (to Ashes) because of his love for his fire spells :)
Just my experience, I can see a good argument for either!
All the more reason for it to be a title and not a surname, which is tied to family...