Forums » The Paladin

Tanking with Casting Times

    • 220 posts
    July 11, 2019 10:46 PM PDT

    Paladins are the only tanks (that we've seen) that have cast times for their spells/abilities. I am curious what this will mean for their mitigation & avoidance. Will they be able to dodge/parry/block while casting? What about spell pushback (will that exist in Pantheon)? Will it put them at a disadvantage compared to the instant abilities for the other 2 tanks. On paper, I feel that the paladin is the strongest group (5-man content) tank. He brings self healing, group healing, CC (and stuns), consistent AE aggro, and a battle rez. Just thinking of a harder dungeon crawl in an undead area/zone with a paladin gets me pumped, but I am hoping that casting spells doesn't guarantee you will get smashed in the face.

    Perhaps paladins will have different rules than other caster classes, because they are tanks. I suppose they could flag paladin spells/abilities as 'melee'. Who knows, but it's something I have been thinking about and decided to share.

    • 585 posts
    July 12, 2019 3:53 AM PDT

    I have not checked, but I would assume that only some of their abilities have cast times, healing spells for example. In a good group you shouldn't rely on healing yourself, so it wouldn't matter anyway. I doubt that important tanking related abilities will have cast times, because as you said, that would put paladins at a disadvantage if the other tanks do not have such abilities.

    • 220 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:13 PM PDT

    Going off the only Paladin stream there has been:

    Atone (rez) - 3 sec cast time

    Oathflame (single target heal) - 1.2 sec cast time

    Arcing Light (bouncing heal) - 0.6 sec cast time

    Living Light (group heal) - 1 sec cast time

    Edict of Celestial Authority (stun) - 1 sec cast time

    Lance of the Lightful (dd + chance to stun) - 1.2 sec cast time

    Fiery Aegis (ae stun + cleanse) - 1 sec cast time

    Wrathful Aegis (ae dmg / dot) - 0.6 sec cast time

    Incite (taunt) - Instant

    Fervent Strike (melee attack) - Instant

    Pommel & Cross (AE melee attack) - Instant

    Golden Strike (Melee attack + heal + immunity) - Instant

    Golden Aegis (Divine Aura) - Instant

     

    So as you can see, if you do anything other than melee a mob, the ability has a cast time (obviously they aren't super long, but still have one).

    In a good group you shouldn't rely on healing yourself, so it wouldn't matter anyway.

    This includes not healing any group members, using most of your utility, and basically just becoming a watered down warrior (not a paladin).

    • 21 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:57 PM PDT

    It wasn't really a big problem for paladins and shadow knights in eq because of the channeling skill so I'd imagine theyd have something similar to that. 

    • 373 posts
    July 12, 2019 9:31 PM PDT

    Serillen said:

    It wasn't really a big problem for paladins and shadow knights in eq because of the channeling skill so I'd imagine theyd have something similar to that. 

     

    care to explain for those of us that didn't play EQ?

    • 21 posts
    July 12, 2019 10:13 PM PDT

    Paladins and SKs maintained aggro via spellcasting in eq, channeling was a skill that determined the odds of a spell being interrupted by attacks. I don't know if Pantheon will have that kind of a skill, but considering the Paladin has a lot of spells in its repertoire and the skill was was in EQ it wouldn't be surprising if it did.

    • 218 posts
    July 13, 2019 7:33 AM PDT

    I imagine paladins will still be able to block and parry while channeling spells. I want to see them casting healing spells as much as they bash skulls.

    • 1620 posts
    July 13, 2019 9:44 AM PDT

    I'd like to have some hybrid classes (in the sense of doing both physical and magical abilities) keep some consistency with casting spells. Even if it's countered by passives, skills and such. I don't want it to be a chore, just to remain something 

    • 220 posts
    July 13, 2019 10:04 PM PDT

    Kellie said:

    I imagine paladins will still be able to block and parry while channeling spells. I want to see them casting healing spells as much as they bash skulls.

    This. Thank you for comprehending my post, lol.

    On a side note, I am curious how 1 to 1 damage will be to healing in terms of threat values.

    • 104 posts
    July 16, 2019 10:37 PM PDT

    I was skimming over the FAQ Section of the website and found this little piece that may add a bit more to the discussion- Answers some questions.. Definitely brings up a few more :)

    2.5 Tell me more about spells. Can you move while casting a spell?

    Most spells can be cast when you are moving, however they will more often than not slow down your movement speed. Some spells will require you to stand and not move; likewise, some spells may not slow your movement speed. Additionally, while most spells are spoken, some are gestured, the latter being very handy when an area is silenced by a player or NPC.

    • 680 posts
    July 21, 2019 12:07 PM PDT

    Serillen said:

    Paladins and SKs maintained aggro via spellcasting in eq, channeling was a skill that determined the odds of a spell being interrupted by attacks. I don't know if Pantheon will have that kind of a skill, but considering the Paladin has a lot of spells in its repertoire and the skill was was in EQ it wouldn't be surprising if it did.

     

    This is exactly right - I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that there is a casting skill that mitigates pushback (otherwise healers will be boned).  Another mechanic that the Pal/SHD had in EQ was an innate spell haste (because they were actual hybrids, using cleric and necro spells (along with some unique class spells)).  The innate spell haste made most of their spells <3 sec when the other casters required like 5-7 seconds... but even with that being said, a 1 sec cast time is VERY quick in a game with mechanics similar to EQ.

    • 1690 posts
    July 22, 2019 10:20 AM PDT

    The big question is this:  Are passive melee abilities, like Parry, Riposte, Block, Dodge 'stopped' when casting or are they a wholly separate autonomous function.  Clearly you cannot perform an active ability while trying to cast, but I have not yet seen a combat log with timestamps that shows passive abilities pausing during casting.  I think that they continue to work regardless of what your character is doing, actively or passivly.

    If you really think about it, those passive abilities would need to function independently otherwise they would almost never activate.  Melee are triggering active abilities nearly continuously.  To constantly pause passive abilities when active ones are triggered would be detrimental to every class.

    • 220 posts
    July 22, 2019 7:26 PM PDT

    I agree, however, you couldn't Parry while casting in EQ. I think you could dodge, but I don't think you could block. I am hoping there isn't spell pushback (every hit you take while casting adds to your casting time) because this would be the most punishing for Paladins.

    • 1645 posts
    July 22, 2019 8:42 PM PDT

    zoltar said:

    Serillen said:

    It wasn't really a big problem for paladins and shadow knights in eq because of the channeling skill so I'd imagine theyd have something similar to that. 

     

    care to explain for those of us that didn't play EQ?

    It was just a passive skill with a chance to regain concentration/avoid interruption while casting. 

    • 1645 posts
    July 22, 2019 9:44 PM PDT

    Serillen said:

    It wasn't really a big problem for paladins and shadow knights in eq because of the channeling skill so I'd imagine theyd have something similar to that. 

    This completely misses the point. In EQ all of the hybrid casters had cast times. The point of Fragile's question hinges on the fact that as far as we can tell, to date, of the tank classes *only* the paladin has cast times. If all of them did then the point would be moot as they would be affected the same. Using the EQ channeling comparison as the solution, again, misses the point, as both the Paladin and SK(and Ranger and Bard, etc) had cast times. There could be a very simple answer to the question posed, but it is still an excellent, thoughtful question. 

     

    Sarim said:

    I have not checked, but I would assume that only some of their abilities have cast times, healing spells for example. In a good group you shouldn't rely on healing yourself, so it wouldn't matter anyway. I doubt that important tanking related abilities will have cast times, because as you said, that would put paladins at a disadvantage if the other tanks do not have such abilities.

    Then perhaps first check to see what the OP is actually talking about. 


    This post was edited by Keno Monster at July 22, 2019 9:47 PM PDT