Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

I hate QoL Features

    • 200 posts
    July 12, 2019 4:13 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    You can make a map that unlocks as a player explores, or allow for player-created maps in-game. There's no reason to insist players never have access to a map at any point. This is how you include a QoL improvment that doesn't detract from the meaningful challenge of the game. There's no value in not having a map the tenth time I run through an area.

    You can make things take a long time without requiring discrete chunks of time that are so long they can only be accomplished by people who have no responsibilities in their lives. A quest can take 100 hours but is able to be done in 2-3 hour intervals and does not require sitting at the computer for 100 straight hours. This is how you include a QoL improvement that does not reduce the meaningful challenge of playing the game.

    Player-created maps in-game sounds like an interesting idea that I'm willing to entertain. But I have never seen an implementation of self-revealing maps that I liked. They always tell me more than I care to know about where I am and how much I have yet to unveil. As for value, one could argue that there is also limited value in having a map the tenth time you run through. I'm sure there will be maps, though, and I can live with that if sufficient care is taken to avoid it becoming a crutch.

    I understand and accept the need for plenty of content that can be accomplished in 2-3 hours chunks. In fact, that will probably a typical session for me as well. But I don't understand why it would be so terrible if dungeons existed where it would take considerably longer get to the main boss and kill it. Not 100 hours straight, of course, but maybe 16-20. Such dungeons may not be for everybody, and you may not see it as a "meaningful challenge", but why is that a problem? Everybody should not expect to experience everything the game has to offer.


    This post was edited by Jabir at July 12, 2019 4:39 AM PDT
    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 4:43 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    Chanus said:

    You can make a map that unlocks as a player explores, or allow for player-created maps in-game. There's no reason to insist players never have access to a map at any point. This is how you include a QoL improvment that doesn't detract from the meaningful challenge of the game. There's no value in not having a map the tenth time I run through an area.

    You can make things take a long time without requiring discrete chunks of time that are so long they can only be accomplished by people who have no responsibilities in their lives. A quest can take 100 hours but is able to be done in 2-3 hour intervals and does not require sitting at the computer for 100 straight hours. This is how you include a QoL improvement that does not reduce the meaningful challenge of playing the game.

    Player-created maps in-game sounds like an interesting idea that I'm willing to entertain. But I have never seen an implementation of self-revealing maps that I liked. They always tell me more than I care to know about where I am and how much I yet to unveil. As for value, one could argue that there is also limited value in having a map the tenth time you run through. I'm sure there will be maps, though, and I can live with that if sufficient care is taken to avoid it becoming a crutch.

    I understand and accept the need for plenty of content that can be accomplished in 2-3 hours chunks. In fact, that will probably a typical session for me as well. But I don't understand why it would be so terrible if dungeons existed where it would take considerably longer get to the main boss and kill it. Not 100 hours straight, of course, but maybe 16-20. Such dungeons may not be for everybody, and you may not see it as a "meaningful challenge", but why is that a problem? Everybody should not expect to experience everything the game has to offer.

    The problem with a 16-20 hour dungeon is you need to make it rewarding enough to be worth that time sink, but in order to make it worth doing you set up a system where there are rewards that most players can't obtain simply because they have lives outside of the game to think about. That's not good game design. The challenge from the game should entirely be from the game itself, not whether or not I have a job to go to.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 4:47 AM PDT

    I'm curious why sitting half-AFK while crafting is bad game design but sitting half-AFK while waiting for a mob to spawn is good game design.

    • 930 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:03 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    I understand and accept the need for plenty of content that can be accomplished in 2-3 hours chunks. In fact, that will probably a typical session for me as well. But I don't understand why it would be so terrible if dungeons existed where it would take considerably longer get to the main boss and kill it. Not 100 hours straight, of course, but maybe 16-20. Such dungeons may not be for everybody, and you may not see it as a "meaningful challenge", but why is that a problem? Everybody should not expect to experience everything the game has to offer.

    No, just No.  A 16-20 hour play session isn’t healthy for anyone.  You play that long you are going to be in danger of blood clots.  Arguably VR could possibly be liable for creating content that threatens the health of their players.

    Not that everyone should expect to experience everything but it should be because they are not skilled enough at their class, not good enough of a team player to be part of an exceptional team, and not geared well enough to succeed rather than they unable to play an unhealthy long play session.

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:25 AM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Vandraad said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    It does. It's named "workforce", and is why in real life, most automated business have become cheaper because they no longer require time and employees.

     

    If you have a cheap recipe that takes you a negligible amount of component but 1 hour of active crafting, it will be more expensive than the same components with 15s of crafting, because most people would rather pay than make it themselves, and sellers won't bother doing it for profit because it's long and might not pay enough for the time they put in it. That's amongst the basic of any business including creating or transforming something. Time is money, and it's as true in game than it is in real life.

    The concept issue at the heart of this is this: Time = Money.  Not the number of clicks, but how long does it take to get from A to B.  If, as I alluded to above, the first version of manufacture requires 30 click/drags and takes you 10 minutes to produce the item and the process gets changed to just 1 click/drag but the outcome still requires 10 minutes your total time investment is unchanged.  You are still stuck standing there at the forge/whatever for 10 minutes. You cannot argue that the first manufacturing process results an intrisically higher value of the output than the second process.

     

    Please reread my post. I specifically mensionned active crafting. Because I used time to measure a serie of actions instead of an arbitrary amount of clics or operations. Let's elaborate it with arbitrary clics : At 1 clic a second, the first item would require an amount of 3.600 clics or "operations" while the second would require 15 clics or "operations".

     

    Riahuf22 said:

    For one this definition had nothing to do with what i said in anyway, I never mentioned anything about time, just the beginning of how to start the process of crafting, yes if certain recipes do take an hour to make than yes they would be more expensive because of it.  So I can agree that you are definately correct that duration of the process can affect the pricing of a item but the simple click of the begin crafting vs drag n drop each item to begin crafting does not.

    Because you don't get the relation doesn't mean it doesn't exist, please reconsider your own comprehension, and let me paste arbitrary numbers like I did for Vandraad :

     

    At 2 clic a second, the first item would require an amount of 3.600 clics or "operations" while the second would require 15 clics or "operations".

     

    How do you consider the number of operations included in the process of crafting the first item (1 hour ACTIVE crafting with 3.600 clics) versus the second (15s of ACTIVE crafting, with 15 clics) to have an effect on the inflation of the item price while considering both require exactly the same starting components with no added costs. You specifically stated that "clicking each item" should not increase the price of the item, and I'm simply making an example to show you it DOES. Because everyone value it's time doing something, and clicking on box with a craft doing everything automatically is worth less than clicking multiple time for each recipe and sub component included, the same would goes depending on how crafting is designed. If crafting is tedious (for some) and considered a clickmachine, then crafting will be worth more because :

     

    -Less crafters will be involved.

    -Crafting will require more dedication, concentration and manual work.

    -The amount of items on the market will be lower.

    Why did you even quote me when I said I agreed with you in that you were correct?  All I said is that you brought up how long it would create the item, which is something I said nothing about and isn't even a QoL feature, but is more of a mechanic to keep an item valuable by being time gated, which I am fine by.  I mentioned the QoL feature that all you need to do is simply click "create item" and the process simply begins and not have to drag every single component into a forge (for example) and than click on the "create item", so please next time instead of arguing with me when I clearly was agreeing with you, just accept that how long an item takes to create, and how to begin the creating process isn't the same.


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at July 12, 2019 5:28 AM PDT
    • 200 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:31 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    The problem with a 16-20 hour dungeon is you need to make it rewarding enough to be worth that time sink, but in order to make it worth doing you set up a system where there are rewards that most players can't obtain simply because they have lives outside of the game to think about. That's not good game design. The challenge from the game should entirely be from the game itself, not whether or not I have a job to go to.

    I strongly, but respectfully disagree. Such a challenge would come from the game itself.

    Having a job does not exclude anybody from such an undertaking. Having two or three might, not one.


    This post was edited by Jabir at July 12, 2019 5:31 AM PDT
    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:35 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    I'm curious why sitting half-AFK while crafting is bad game design but sitting half-AFK while waiting for a mob to spawn is good game design.

    If you sitting g half afk for mobs that place is either over camped or you got a bad puller take your pick, and it's bad design for crafting because it makes you lazy and also makes it to where you wouldn't know the difference between a lazy crafter to a dedicated crafter, and there should be a clear difference it's simply that simple, and if you can't understand that than there's nothing to talk about so hopefully you did.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:37 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    Chanus said:

    The problem with a 16-20 hour dungeon is you need to make it rewarding enough to be worth that time sink, but in order to make it worth doing you set up a system where there are rewards that most players can't obtain simply because they have lives outside of the game to think about. That's not good game design. The challenge from the game should entirely be from the game itself, not whether or not I have a job to go to.

    I strongly, but respectfully disagree. Such a challenge would come from the game itself.

    Having a job does not exclude anybody from such an undertaking. Having two or three might, not one.

    Or having kids, or having a social life, or having literally any other responsibility that means you can't dedicate 16-20 hours to a video game in a single stretch. It's horrible behavior to promote and encourage, especially given this game's likely older population where being inactive for extended periods of time is a real and dangerous health risk.

    Being able to sit at a computer for 16-20 hours is not an achievement to be proud of. It's sad.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:39 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Chanus said:

    I'm curious why sitting half-AFK while crafting is bad game design but sitting half-AFK while waiting for a mob to spawn is good game design.

    If you sitting g half afk for mobs that place is either over camped or you got a bad puller take your pick, and it's bad design for crafting because it makes you lazy and also makes it to where you wouldn't know the difference between a lazy crafter to a dedicated crafter, and there should be a clear difference it's simply that simple, and if you can't understand that than there's nothing to talk about so hopefully you did.

    There are plenty of people here advocating for 72 hour named spawn camps, and the Venn diagram overlap between them and people who say crafting AFK for an hour is bad design is pretty large.

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:39 AM PDT

    There's no reason to have a 16 hour dungeon crawl though, why would there be, for one after a while even the ones that made it there wouldn't do it all the time because the process in itself would become "boring" knowing it would take another 16-20 hours to get there, it might sound good right now, but it is absolutely boring in gameplay, take it from a guy who does 12 hour endurance runs on warframe.

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:42 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Chanus said:

    I'm curious why sitting half-AFK while crafting is bad game design but sitting half-AFK while waiting for a mob to spawn is good game design.

    If you sitting g half afk for mobs that place is either over camped or you got a bad puller take your pick, and it's bad design for crafting because it makes you lazy and also makes it to where you wouldn't know the difference between a lazy crafter to a dedicated crafter, and there should be a clear difference it's simply that simple, and if you can't understand that than there's nothing to talk about so hopefully you did.

    There are plenty of people here advocating for 72 hour named spawn camps, and the Venn diagram overlap between them and people who say crafting AFK for an hour is bad design is pretty large.

    For the mere fact you want to afk craft for an hour has me to believe we won't come to an agreement on this subject and I'll just leave with I hope VR makes the crafting more interactive which is the way I want it and not the simple I'll just "click here" and leave and come back in a hour like you want it.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:47 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:For the mere fact you want to afk craft for an hour has me to believe we won't come to an agreement on this subject and I'll just leave with I hope VR makes the crafting more interactive which is the way I want it and not the simple I'll just "click here" and leave and come back in a hour like you want it.

    I have never said I want to AFK craft. It just strikes me as curious why some aspects of the game absolutely must involve sitting AFK and twiddling your thumbs while for other aspects of the game that is a horrible idea that cheapens the experience.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:49 AM PDT

    Personally I would like to see a system of crafting that is interesting to practice. I neither want to click a button and wait for an hour for all my combines to finish or have to sit and manually place every component in the crafting container, one-by-one, click combine, and repeat.

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:55 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    Riahuf22 said:For the mere fact you want to afk craft for an hour has me to believe we won't come to an agreement on this subject and I'll just leave with I hope VR makes the crafting more interactive which is the way I want it and not the simple I'll just "click here" and leave and come back in a hour like you want it.

    I have never said I want to AFK craft. It just strikes me as curious why some aspects of the game absolutely must involve sitting AFK and twiddling your thumbs while for other aspects of the game that is a horrible idea that cheapens the experience.

    Who said that?  I'm sorry but if that is what you are doing it goes right back to what I said is that either you are in a over camped zone or have a bad puller, I have been in a grp where literally in lguk and pulled the whole bottom floor before respawn want to know who much I was twiddling my thumbs?  I wasn't in fact if I ever did it was because I needed mana, and that's not something to even complain about.  So if you think sitting down to collect enough mana and all that, than I don't know what to say, you can either find another spot that isn't crowded, or deal with slow pulls and having to collect mana, either way either system has down time, but that doesn't mean either of them is bad.

    If you aren't even arguing that you want to afk craft, than why agrue with people who so don't want it, if you don't get it than ask yourself why you don't want it and just write that down.


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at July 12, 2019 6:02 AM PDT
    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 5:58 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Chanus said:

    Riahuf22 said:For the mere fact you want to afk craft for an hour has me to believe we won't come to an agreement on this subject and I'll just leave with I hope VR makes the crafting more interactive which is the way I want it and not the simple I'll just "click here" and leave and come back in a hour like you want it.

    I have never said I want to AFK craft. It just strikes me as curious why some aspects of the game absolutely must involve sitting AFK and twiddling your thumbs while for other aspects of the game that is a horrible idea that cheapens the experience.

    Who said that?  I'm sorry but if that is what you are doing it goes right back to what I said is that either you are in a over camped zone or have a bad puller, I have been in a grp where literally in lguk and pulled the whole bottom floor before respawn want to know who much I was twiddling my thumbs?  I wasn't in fact if I ever did it was because I needed mana, and that's not something to even complain about.  So if you think sitting down to collect enough mana and all that, than I don't know what to say, you can either find another spot that isn't crowded, or deal with slow pulls and having to collect mana, either way either system has down time, but that doesn't mean either of them is bad.

    In other threads people have enthusiastically espoused the virtues of overly long Epic drop camps and the like where you sit doing little more than wait for a named to spawn after hours and hours.

    • 2501 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:07 AM PDT

    In other threads people have enthusiastically espoused the virtues of overly long Epic drop camps and the like where you sit doing little more than wait for a named to spawn after hours and hours.<

    Sadly true. In Everquest it was either poor game design or the lack of tools to create better timesinks than just doing nothing. In Pantheon it would simply be poor game design.

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:10 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Chanus said:

    Riahuf22 said:For the mere fact you want to afk craft for an hour has me to believe we won't come to an agreement on this subject and I'll just leave with I hope VR makes the crafting more interactive which is the way I want it and not the simple I'll just "click here" and leave and come back in a hour like you want it.

    I have never said I want to AFK craft. It just strikes me as curious why some aspects of the game absolutely must involve sitting AFK and twiddling your thumbs while for other aspects of the game that is a horrible idea that cheapens the experience.

    Who said that?  I'm sorry but if that is what you are doing it goes right back to what I said is that either you are in a over camped zone or have a bad puller, I have been in a grp where literally in lguk and pulled the whole bottom floor before respawn want to know who much I was twiddling my thumbs?  I wasn't in fact if I ever did it was because I needed mana, and that's not something to even complain about.  So if you think sitting down to collect enough mana and all that, than I don't know what to say, you can either find another spot that isn't crowded, or deal with slow pulls and having to collect mana, either way either system has down time, but that doesn't mean either of them is bad.

    In other threads people have enthusiastically espoused the virtues of overly long Epic drop camps and the like where you sit doing little more than wait for a named to spawn after hours and hours.

    It's all part of the game, and if you wanted that item, than your going to do what you have to do to get it, just like that's how all quest should be, I would rather have a quest make me go somewhere and do something specific and kill or find something specific, than go 10 feet from the quest giver and kill 10 boars.  

    And who knows VR might have an idea for these certain situations people are talking about, so I'm not even going to bother arguing with you or defend a system that might not even exsist, so until more information on this topic comes out I'm going to step away from it, and hopefully you do the same especially sense this is a QoL topic and not a whatever it is that your trying to make it.

    • 200 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:14 AM PDT

    Trasak said:

    No, just No.  A 16-20 hour play session isn’t healthy for anyone.  You play that long you are going to be in danger of blood clots.  Arguably VR could possibly be liable for creating content that threatens the health of their players.

    Not that everyone should expect to experience everything but it should be because they are not skilled enough at their class, not good enough of a team player to be part of an exceptional team, and not geared well enough to succeed rather than they unable to play an unhealthy long play session.

    Okay, 8 hours then. With corpse runs, marathon sessions will happen, regardless. Come to think of it, corpse runs or other unforseen events cannot be allowed to take much time, either, I suppose?

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:17 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    In other threads people have enthusiastically espoused the virtues of overly long Epic drop camps and the like where you sit doing little more than wait for a named to spawn after hours and hours.<

    Sadly true. In Everquest it was either poor game design or the lack of tools to create better timesinks than just doing nothing. In Pantheon it would simply be poor game design.

    Precisely.

    As to what I would want to see from crafting, where QoL features like simplified combines are present but the process is still engaging, I think you can make the process interesting without making it necessarily difficult. I don't want to see a system that requires twitch reflexes or other kinds of things where you can fail in a way that, frankly, the older you get the less possible they will be to do. We aren't chain-smoking, Red Bull-chugging teenagers playing this game. Some sort of interaction during the combine process could be fun, though. Maybe make the combine process happen in stages you have to initiate. If you want to do one combine at a time, you can, and it's fairly quick. If you want to do 20 combines, it takes longer, but still involves your interaction in some way. I didn't mind systems like Vanguard's (I think? maybe EQ2) where you apply a crafting ability at each stage and it affects the quality of the end product. Higher crafting skill would broaden the window within which you have to do it for a successful application. 

    Maybe requiring thousands of combines to skill up is a bad idea in the first place, and making the process more interesting to do but requiring fewer combines could be made to take the same amount of time, but actually involve doing something that feels meaningful.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:22 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    Trasak said:

    No, just No.  A 16-20 hour play session isn’t healthy for anyone.  You play that long you are going to be in danger of blood clots.  Arguably VR could possibly be liable for creating content that threatens the health of their players.

    Not that everyone should expect to experience everything but it should be because they are not skilled enough at their class, not good enough of a team player to be part of an exceptional team, and not geared well enough to succeed rather than they unable to play an unhealthy long play session.

    Okay, 8 hours then. With corpse runs, marathon sessions will happen, regardless. Come to think of it, corpse runs or other unforseen events cannot be allowed to take much time, either, I suppose?

    Marathon sessions happen, but I don't think it's a good idea to design the game specifically and explicitly encouraging marathon sessions by requiring one in order to accomplish a single goal or not accomplish it at all.

    I have issues with the idea of corpse runs where I have the potential to lose everything I own, but I don't have a problem with corpse runs in general, or some other mechanic where failure means having to work your way back to where you were playing. I don't personally see the value in losing items when you die, even temporarily, sometimes making it impossible to get back to where you were. I do see the value in making death meaningful and something you want to avoid.

    • 200 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:36 AM PDT

    Chanus said:

    Or having kids, or having a social life, or having literally any other responsibility that means you can't dedicate 16-20 hours to a video game in a single stretch. It's horrible behavior to promote and encourage, especially given this game's likely older population where being inactive for extended periods of time is a real and dangerous health risk.

    Being able to sit at a computer for 16-20 hours is not an achievement to be proud of. It's sad.

    Thanks for your concern, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself how I want to spend my time.

    Oh, and I do have a job, a family and a social life, thank you very much. Hopefully, Pantheon will become another source of social relations.

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:43 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    Chanus said:

    Or having kids, or having a social life, or having literally any other responsibility that means you can't dedicate 16-20 hours to a video game in a single stretch. It's horrible behavior to promote and encourage, especially given this game's likely older population where being inactive for extended periods of time is a real and dangerous health risk.

    Being able to sit at a computer for 16-20 hours is not an achievement to be proud of. It's sad.

    Thanks for your concern, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself how I want to spend my time.

    Oh, and I do have a job, a family and a social life, thank you very much. Hopefully, Pantheon will become another source of social relations.

    You can certainly play as long as you want. I just don't think the game should be designed around encouraging that in any way for accomplishing a single task in one go or failing it entirely.

    • 10 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:53 AM PDT

    Jabir said:

    Chanus said:

    Or having kids, or having a social life, or having literally any other responsibility that means you can't dedicate 16-20 hours to a video game in a single stretch. It's horrible behavior to promote and encourage, especially given this game's likely older population where being inactive for extended periods of time is a real and dangerous health risk.

    Being able to sit at a computer for 16-20 hours is not an achievement to be proud of. It's sad.

    Thanks for your concern, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself how I want to spend my time.

    Oh, and I do have a job, a family and a social life, thank you very much. Hopefully, Pantheon will become another source of social relations.

     

    Agreed Jabir....  Play time, for some will be extensive.  

    Chanus, Am i to assume that, by your thinking aboove, Professional Streamers like Ninja/Shroud and a multitude of others, that sit at there chosen platform day after day and hour after hour, are just sad people...???  Cuase im pretty sure millions a years says otherwise in the case of the above streamers.  

    So since i was fiscally responsible when I was a wee lad, and saved everything, did without so many things, and just sacrificed comfort for frugality, so that now i can sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day and do something that I enjoy, that I too am sad?  What about the developers that sit there for 12, 16 sometimes even 20 hours a day to develope and publish the game your currently interested in, are they to sad people?  

    Just gonna put this out there, but you kinda sound like a whiny WoW loving snowflake thats made poor decisions in your life, and now you want to ruin the fun that everyone else has worked so hard to enjoy.  Nuff Said

    Loganizal

    • 298 posts
    July 12, 2019 6:59 AM PDT

    Loganizal said:Just gonna put this out there, but you kinda sound like a whiny WoW loving snowflake thats made poor decisions in your life, and now you want to ruin the fun that everyone else has worked so hard to enjoy.  Nuff Said

    Loganizal

    Cool, thanks for putting that out there. It doesn't describe me at all, but, it also sure doesn't make me in the least bit interested in engaging you in a discussion.

     

    If anyone wants to continue the probably off-topic marathon gaming discussion, I did this: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/10840/marathon-playing-antisocial-menace-or-who-cares-it-s-fine

    • 1216 posts
    July 12, 2019 7:01 AM PDT

    Loganizal said:

    Jabir said:

    Chanus said:

    Or having kids, or having a social life, or having literally any other responsibility that means you can't dedicate 16-20 hours to a video game in a single stretch. It's horrible behavior to promote and encourage, especially given this game's likely older population where being inactive for extended periods of time is a real and dangerous health risk.

    Being able to sit at a computer for 16-20 hours is not an achievement to be proud of. It's sad.

    Thanks for your concern, but I'm perfectly capable of deciding for myself how I want to spend my time.

    Oh, and I do have a job, a family and a social life, thank you very much. Hopefully, Pantheon will become another source of social relations.

     

    Agreed Jabir....  Play time, for some will be extensive.  

    Chanus, Am i to assume that, by your thinking aboove, Professional Streamers like Ninja/Shroud and a multitude of others, that sit at there chosen platform day after day and hour after hour, are just sad people...???  Cuase im pretty sure millions a years says otherwise in the case of the above streamers.  

    So since i was fiscally responsible when I was a wee lad, and saved everything, did without so many things, and just sacrificed comfort for frugality, so that now i can sit in front of my computer for 16 hours a day and do something that I enjoy, that I too am sad?  What about the developers that sit there for 12, 16 sometimes even 20 hours a day to develope and publish the game your currently interested in, are they to sad people?  

    Just gonna put this out there, but you kinda sound like a whiny WoW loving snowflake thats made poor decisions in your life, and now you want to ruin the fun that everyone else has worked so hard to enjoy.  Nuff Said

    Loganizal

    So you literally mentioned all of those streamers but none of them play 16 or 20 hours a day, so your point proved nothing, honestly ninja probably streams like 8 hours at most on most days, which is half of 16 just so you know, the streamer I can think of that probably does the most hours is probably Summit1g throughout the night, and at most he does 12, which still isn't 16, and again doing it because you want to is much different than doing it because you have to get to the end of the dungeon, and that just for the first spawn, let alone if you actually wanted to camp it.  

    So again having a dungeon to be 16 through 20 hours long is bad by design 2 hours or something like that is enough of an accomplishment in itself you don't need it to be 8x or 10x longer than that.  It's just unnesscary.

    Also mentioning people work 16 to 20 hours a day doesn't happen, and if it does happen it very rare, and you lose productivity from those people, that why the normal work day is 8 to 12 hours long, so the moral of the person working stays as focused and happy as possible to keep doing his job, if you keep slapping him with 16 to 20 hours a day, they simply get burnt out, and unhappy, you could literally take something they enjoy to do, into something they don't want to do anymore just by what you said.

    So again making a dungeon 16 to 20 hours long is bad by design because I want to enjoy my game, I don't want to feel like in order for me wanting to do a dungeon I have to put in 16 hours of work to do it, because at that time it is work and not a game anymore.


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at July 12, 2019 7:13 AM PDT