Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

I hate QoL Features

    • 59 posts
    July 13, 2019 9:35 PM PDT

    Kittik said:

    So many threads now and everyone's bringing up, "Oh, but it's QoL, no one wants to play a game with the mechanics of game from 1776!"  

    I do!  I'd rather see zero flippin' QoL features in the game and just point me on my way.  (ok, slight over exageration there)

    But come on!  Why do you think there even is a WoW Classic coming out?  Why is OSRS popular?  Why does P99 have (usually) twice the population of any other server on a EQ emulator?  It's not because these games are better than whats out there today, but it's because actions had meaning.  Everything wasn't handed to you.   Choices mattered.

    Ever play a game, and then play it with mods or a cheat code enabled?  Its no fun anymore.  Why? Because the challenge is gone.  Having to work for something makes it worth the reward.

    QoL features like "Equip All" after death, cheapen's death.  Know why you feared death in EQ, the dread of knowing you had to re-mem all your spells, loot all the stuff off your corpse and reequip all your gear.  That subcouncious knowledge of knowing all that work lie ahead of you if you died, was a driving force for doing all you could to avoid death.  (And don't give me the "What if I get DC'd and it's not my fault" bruh, if you get DC'd and it's not your fault, we all about to die becasue the only way someone loses connection now is if there is a giant meteor coming at us and it took out 7 or 8 satillites.)

    QoL  features like "Fast Travel" cheapens the adventure of traveling.  It trivalizes content and makes farming a thing.  Fast Travel in any form might as well be the same as ESO dungeon finders, where all you do is stand around queued up for a dungeon without having to go anywhere.

    QoL features like "Auto Consume" rations.  Yep, better players don't forget that stuff, it's one of the things that gets them in top end raid guilds, but players who don't pay attention complain and now it's a QoL feature that isn't needed, yet is in there to "level the playing field".

    QoL feautres like "Shard Banking"  being talked about in another thread, I won't rehash it, but it cheapens the play of the game.

    QoL features like any QoL feature cheapens the experience of the game.  

    QoL features are less QoL features and more, I'm lazy and I just want to see flashy bloom effects on my screen and pretty, big, foating numbers.

     

    Some folks here, me being one, will agree totally with your sentiment. But this forum seems populated with a great many folks who seem to want a vastly different expereince than what this game is claiming to be going for, which is the spirit of old EQ. Even those who seem to agree with you here might not truly want that. Just saying.

    • 98 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:11 AM PDT

    I am beginning to think some peoples experience with EQ was so different than mine I wonder if we even played the same game. I did miss the first year so maybe that is it? This difference in the time we played EQ might explain why people have different expectations about what a spiritual successor of EQ might look like.

    Kittik said:

    QoL features like "Auto Consume" rations.  Yep, better players don't forget that stuff, it's one of the things that gets them in top end raid guilds, but players who don't pay attention complain and now it's a QoL feature that isn't needed, yet is in there to "level the playing field".

    When playing EQ I never had to manually consume my food and water, or if I did it was so short lived I had forgotten it.

    Kittik said:

    QoL features are less QoL features and more, I'm lazy and I just want to see flashy bloom effects on my screen and pretty, big, foating numbers.

    While the numbers might not have been big and flashy they did float above my head in EQ. I stated above how I did this using the games UI chat windows.

    Kittik said:

    QoL feautres like "Shard Banking"  being talked about in another thread, I won't rehash it, but it cheapens the play of the game.

    Not 100% sure when shared banks were put into EQ but it was early on for sure.

    Kittik said:

    QoL  features like "Fast Travel" cheapens the adventure of traveling.  It trivalizes content and makes farming a thing.  Fast Travel in any form might as well be the same as ESO dungeon finders, where all you do is stand around queued up for a dungeon without having to go anywhere.

    POK books, wizard, and druid ports sure gave EQ fast travel. It was not at all like newer games but I get the instinct impression that many people here would like to see even the wizard and druid porting removed.

    EQ also had a LFG tool with a UI interface and all. I loved it and used it all the time. I guess I just hated the inefficiencies of spamming a global channel over and over again.

    I am using Kittik post in my examples and I realize it was never stated that this was how EQ was. But too me this is the feeling I get when people talk about making an EQ spiritual successor and then complain when people want no less than what EQ had for QoL features. I mean it was an old game limited in many ways surly it should not be too much to ask to have at least what EQ had. I mean we all fell in love with EQ for being that hard core, no hand holding, group orientated game. Did it not have almost all of what we would like to see in a new game? Or did all those game ruining QoL features somehow make you hate the game you loved?

     

    PS. For the love of pantheon please make these forums better soon….


    This post was edited by starblight at July 14, 2019 12:14 AM PDT
    • 1623 posts
    July 14, 2019 3:52 AM PDT

    starblight said:

    I am beginning to think some peoples experience with EQ was so different than mine I wonder if we even played the same game. I did miss the first year so maybe that is it? This difference in the time we played EQ might explain why people have different expectations about what a spiritual successor of EQ might look like.9

     

    Pretty much because EQ moved fast once verant (the developper studio) was entirely melt in sony. When people talk about classic EQ it's refering to it's first two expansions at max (kunark and velious) which only had a 2 years and a half duration.

     

    Later expansions, coming quite fast, all added QOL and convenience which were considered as controversial, up to the point the game slowly collapsed.

     

    Shared bank, pok books, were all features added in expansions led by sony and not considered as "the good eq".


    This post was edited by MauvaisOeil at July 14, 2019 3:52 AM PDT
    • 1242 posts
    July 14, 2019 6:24 AM PDT

    @Starblight

    Yes - two very, very different games. Verant (Brad and the original creators) developed Everquest and the two ‘Classic expansions’ being Kunark and Velious. This is the classic era, golden age, or ‘trilogy.’ Then basically Luclin onward was when SOE took complete control and gutted Verant. This is when the game changed and it was ridiculously eased-down with QoL (instant travel etc, you name it). Post-Verant is what led to the mainstream that we have today. As many of us know, mainstream is garbage. Post-Verant was also EQ’s downfall (as is what many people said would happen, and many people did quit after Velious). Visionary Realms was involved with the ‘classic era’ of Everquest. DAOC also existed at that time, another immersive mmorpg (so I’ve heard). And I’ve heard of this happening to WoW as well: Vanilla WoW being somewhat more challenging than the WoW of today (mainstream that people are quitting). Though I’d imagine the differences would not be nearly as noticeable as in Classic EQ vs EQ. Also, many players are returning here albeit most do not post on forums. It’s always been like that.  


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 14, 2019 12:36 PM PDT
    • 322 posts
    July 14, 2019 6:30 AM PDT

    Darck said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    Vandraad said:

    Chanus said:

    Entertainment and challenge are not mutually exclusive.

    Their definitions are also entirely fluid.

    So very true. I wish more people understood that fact.

    Sorry but your both wrong, Entertainment is the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment, and challenge is a call to take part in a contest or competition, but more specifically challenging is testing one's abilities.

    Individuals can find entertainment in challenging ones abilities, but their not fluid, as in interchangeable. I find entertainment while watching a movie, theres nothing particularly challenging about it, I find it challenging to “bite my tongue” around certain people, but its certainly not entertaining to me.

     

    Given your points of view, one has to ask, what drew you to a game that is claiming to follow the spirit of old EQ, which was definetly intended to be challenging? Your concepts of what a game should be seem to me like they would lead you to other games. Just curious.

     

    There’s others things that are packaged with “spirit of old EQ”,Crafting, Story, Socializing with Guildies,and Subscription. In SWG I was a Ranger, I really enjoyed setting up a camp in the field to hunt, and having random players stop by to recoup, it gave me a chance to me new players while I worked on my crafting/skinning, I also had a tailor shop that I sold my crafted wares in, again I enjoyed meeting new players and socializing while I built my crafting business. ect.. None of that was challenging to me, but it was a lot of fun.

    These Modern MMO have things I don't like, such as players being in 5 guilds at one, I don't like things that I find to be anti-community.

    One thing to note is I don't come from the “spirit of old EQ” Era, I started back on the atari, with games like battle tanks, pitfall, missile command, yars revenge,Asteroids and space invaders, These are games that I played for challenge, I don't see MMO’s as a challenge, Their adventures.

     

    Additionally, if challenge was the holy grail of MMO’s, Why did Wildstar fail? A Game that catered to “Hardcore”


    This post was edited by HemlockReaper at July 14, 2019 6:45 AM PDT
    • 2506 posts
    July 14, 2019 8:22 AM PDT

    ((Given your points of view, one has to ask, what drew you to a game that is claiming to follow the spirit of old EQ, which was definetly intended to be challenging? Your concepts of what a game should be seem to me like they would lead you to other games. Just curious.))

     

    I think this is a fair question - while it isn't directed to me I will give my own take on why I support Pantheon.

    Some elements that Pantheon is highly likely to have I do not especially want. This is quite likely true for all of us. What are the chances that anyone will fully agree with all of 100 design decisions. Or even 99 of them. VR certainly won't - some things they will do because they think it will make the game more successful not because they think this is the one true perfect game design.

    In my case what are some of the things I do not want but expect to see? 

    1. Too little ability to solo. There are times I will not feel like grouping or will expect frequent interruptions. I would like soloable mobs in areas near most outposts even though I do not want them to give as good experience per minute or as good drops as grouping. They should not encourage people to go solo as modern MMOs typically do but they should accomodate times when we need or want to do so.

    2. Too much tedium in travel. Going from one place to another in relatively civilized areas where the goal is not adventure on the way but simply getting from a town with a bank to a town with a crafting hall should not take a lot of time if it is the kind of thing we do dozens of times. The 20th trip it isn't exploration and excitement it is tedium. But I hasten to add that travel should never be fast and easy the first time - maybe not even until we have "tagged" both origin town and destination town 10 or 20 times. Nor should travel be easy in less civilized areas- using America in the 18th century as an example I am thinking of a trip from Trenton to Philadelphia not traveling in the wilds of Tennessee.

    3. Training. I find the concept of another player being able to deliberately kill me on a pve server abhorrant. My MMO experience (I go back to 1999 and earlier too though not with EQ) was in games that did not permit this.

    So why in the name of all Gods am I enthusiastic about Pantheon? Because the real world does not lend itself to perfection and I expect far more things I like than things that I do not like.

    Slow travel (which I do support and want outside of well traveled and "civilized" areas.) Real penalties for dying so it matters whether you win or lose a fight. Death doesn't merely cost you 5 copper for repairs and respawn you 30 seconds away. A wide choice of races and classes. No character being able to do more than one role well. Elaborate crafting and good harvesting. Slow leveling with a focus on seeing the world not racing to maximum level, though some of us *will* do that inevitably. Plenty more but this is far more than enough to answer "well if you do not want every single thing I want why don't you just play other games?"

    • 1623 posts
    July 14, 2019 10:43 AM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    Additionally, if challenge was the holy grail of MMO’s, Why did Wildstar fail? A Game that catered to “Hardcore”

    What wildstar claimed was far to be what they offered :

     

    -Fast and easy solo levelling

    -Instanced dungeons and adventures

    -Themepark game with quest hubs everywhere

     

     

    I could go on and on, but claiming you do a hardcore oldschool mmo and offering a long attunement quest fort 40 man raids and timed dungeons runs as the sole "hardcore" content centered around a pro gaming mentality doesn't make it oldschool at all.

    • 190 posts
    July 14, 2019 11:24 AM PDT

     On why Wildstar failed when it claimed to be "hardcore"...there are many reasons but the main reason was it was solo to max then do 40 man raids. Basically Wildstar was imitating the worst aspects of Vanilla WoW! Add to that a brand new IP nobody heard of, lousy PvP and dungeons few people wanted to do and you have a recipe for total disaster! The game had some cool concepts but so do a lot of failed games. Games do not succeed or fail based on difficulty. The success comes from great gameplay first and foremost. But it is important to note that the solo to max level then raid market is completely dominated by WoW, followed closely by FF14. From what I am seeing it may actually be FF14 that ends up taking the mantle from WoW. But I wouldn't say FF14 succeeded cause it was easy mode casual friendly, I tried it out and my conclusion was better storytelling and superior gameplay. It wasn't my style but I can see how it is getting so popular, I can see why WoW players are flocking to it.


    This post was edited by Ziegfried at July 14, 2019 11:25 AM PDT
    • 98 posts
    July 14, 2019 11:31 AM PDT

    @Syrif & @MauvaisOeil

    Even when Verant was in control it had QoL features I listed. Things like LFG tool, wizard and druid teleporting, and auto consuming food. This is just to name a few. Had Verant already started to add QoL features that would have been better not to have been added?

    Again I did miss the first year and maybe I missed even more prerelease. Did EQ QoL features change much in the first expansion?

     

    *The LFG tools early on I think just let you flag as LFG. I have looked and I could not find the exact date the UI was added for LFG tool.

     

    • 322 posts
    July 14, 2019 11:48 AM PDT

    Absolutely, enjoyment isn't solely based on difficultly, and QoL features aren't necessarily a bad thing, its entirely situational.

    For example, a mini map with radar showing the enemies position could be considered a QoL feature, and in a single player games this might be true, but in a multiplayer shooter, I find I hate those mini maps because it makes it near impossibly for me to use the terrain, or stealth to my advantage when theres a big arrow over my head.

    Now its certainly more challenging to deal with a mini map in a shooter, at least for me, but I don't find it more enjoyable.

    • 27 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:25 PM PDT

    QOL features have always come accross to me as a bad word

    Despite that I think there is some room for QOL.

    It just does not need to touch or go against, Grinding, Death Penalties, Group Content, Travel, and any part of the game that effectively supports the game Tenets. 

     

    • 1623 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:29 PM PDT

    starblight said:

    @Syrif & @MauvaisOeil

    Even when Verant was in control it had QoL features I listed. Things like LFG tool, wizard and druid teleporting, and auto consuming food. This is just to name a few. Had Verant already started to add QoL features that would have been better not to have been added?

    Again I did miss the first year and maybe I missed even more prerelease. Did EQ QoL features change much in the first expansion?

     

    *The LFG tools early on I think just let you flag as LFG. I have looked and I could not find the exact date the UI was added for LFG tool.

     

     

    I don't get the point of your answer. None of thoses were even quoted as qol to begin with, neither in our posts. Autoconsume food seems right for a non survival game, lfg tools to announce you're looking for a party. 

     

    So ?

    • 134 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:37 PM PDT

    There are a lot of QoL things EQ implemented that I used. I played from the day it opened until just a few years ago. Granted it was off and on but I managed to play through 80% of their content. At first it was a mess, chat filter was borked, it had some issues. But for the most part it was pretty smooth. It pulled me in because it was like no other game before. And I will never get that back. This whole new experience every day was almost like a drug. I couldn't wait to get back on and see what I was going to encounter next.

    You went into places like Crushbone throne room, Befallen behind locked doors, or deep in Splitpaw knowing that if you and your group died it was going to be hard getting your corpse back. Sure it was just a couple pieces of banded if you were lucky and a fine steel weapon or minotaur axe or Shiny Brass Shield, but it meant everything to you. So you were going to get that corpse back come hell or high water. At that level there was no resurrections to be had or exp to regain from it.

    These factors played a major role into who you let in your group, where you went, seeing what you could handle, and most importantly camping near a zone line because that was your only salvation sometimes. Then came quality of life enhancements. Suddenly things started moving faster, people were more careless because they had a necro with a coffin that could summon their corpse, or they had a cleric by their side with a rez. A bard with fading memories, a monk with FD, Wizard/Druid to evac, or Enchanter to mez/charm. These are all skills that characters developed along the way to make life easier for the group. They can easily be considered QoL because it did improve everyone's qualiy of life.

    But when you talk about things like LFG window, auto group finder, maps, teleports, resurection shrines, dying but keeping all your gear, auction halls, hatred meters, even health of target's target....all these things shrink the game experience to me. They prevent people helping each other, people can have the worst reputation and still get groups. it makes dungeon crawls much safer and more likely to pursue, dumbing down the experience and making the loot and rewards from them more menial. Not to mention people level so much faster and then hit end game and quit because nobody can possibly keep enough content for them.

    I enjoyed EQ a lot through the years. The thing I enjoyed the most was the friends I made, and the guilds I was a part of. Those connections, friendships are still with me to this day even. And ultimately what made me play EQ for as long as I did was because of them. I enjoyed all of them through the ups and downs of raiding, refilling the ranks and teaching recruits encounters that were new to them. And most of these connections came before Ventrilo, or teamspeak. They were when you had to chat to communicate. I remember the raid leader had to use guild chat to give a run down on the events. Sure it took longer, we weren't as efficient as people are today but that didn't matter because we didn't have other ways to do it at that time. 

    I guess what I'm trying to say in my ramble here is that I enjoyed the game more at first when it was the purest then I did later on. Then the later days became just being around friends I had played with for years and even a decade or more. I use this analogy a lot when talking about old time EQ to buddies...MMO's are like baseball, when EQ came out it was America's past time. Over the years people have grown too busy to watch baseball or go through an MMO the hard way. They want instant gratification and truthfully I have kids and a wife now and don't have the time to be that guy at the end of the game with all the big loot. When Pantheon releases I will be a casual guy looking to find a way to make the most of his little time he has to play. It's easy to see how people are on the fence about this. Most of us have gamed a lot and grown up, some of us are just getting started. Some live their life to play these games. I don't think there is a way to make them all happy. 

    • 98 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:44 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    starblight said:

    @Syrif & @MauvaisOeil

    Even when Verant was in control it had QoL features I listed. Things like LFG tool, wizard and druid teleporting, and auto consuming food. This is just to name a few. Had Verant already started to add QoL features that would have been better not to have been added?

    Again I did miss the first year and maybe I missed even more prerelease. Did EQ QoL features change much in the first expansion?

     

    *The LFG tools early on I think just let you flag as LFG. I have looked and I could not find the exact date the UI was added for LFG tool.

     

     

    I don't get the point of your answer. None of thoses were even quoted as qol to begin with, neither in our posts. Autoconsume food seems right for a non survival game, lfg tools to announce you're looking for a party. 

     

    So ?

     

    My point is that some QoL features existed in the early days of EQ and the game was still good. So it should also be safe to add the same QoL features to Pantheon without ruining it. The auto consuming food was part of the OP and the LFG tool has been mentioned in other threads.

    I had mentioned your name to recognize that EQ had a changing point once SOE took over.

    • 1242 posts
    July 14, 2019 12:57 PM PDT

    @Moloka

    Yes, you have kids now where others are retired and have even more time to play! And there are others who don’t have kids where others (like a friend of mine) live life in a wheelchair. As for myself, I will likely be more of a “casual” player again, BUT of course I want Pantheon to be a very, very immersive mmorpg with plenty of depth, tons of challenge, and an abundance of risk vs reward. I want some accomplishments to take very tedious time, complex guild effort, lots of strategy, and lots of risk. And ya know - if I didn’t want these things then I would go play mainstream. I imagine there will be both light quests and tedious quests in game. Anyway, I agree with you regarding our community. It was (and still is) easily the best mmorpg community. :)


    This post was edited by Syrif at July 14, 2019 1:21 PM PDT
    • 134 posts
    July 14, 2019 1:06 PM PDT

    @Syrif I couldn't agree more. I wont have the time but I do want what time I do have to be an adventure. I am hoping to get my wife involved so that when we put the kids to bed we can play together and enjoy some time together. I always admired couples that played together when I was single. It's a lot easier when your wife is sharing your addiction with you rather than sitting on the couch glaring at you lol

    I hope that I am able to invest as many years in this game as I was EQ. It is a cheap hobby compared to many other things. Hopefully we can build more friendships in the game with others and enjoy it that much more! I am hoping most for a good crafting system. I spent a lot of hours in Vanguard crafting and it was a lot of fun. Things like that make it that much better for those of us who wont have as much time to play.

     

    • 1242 posts
    July 14, 2019 1:21 PM PDT

    @Moloka

    Please do get your wife involved with the game and community! I have convinced some of my friends to come back. Pantheon will be a great game. 

     

    • 1623 posts
    July 14, 2019 3:23 PM PDT

    starblight said:]

     

    My point is that some QoL features existed in the early days of EQ and the game was still good. So it should also be safe to add the same QoL features to Pantheon without ruining it. The auto consuming food was part of the OP and the LFG tool has been mentioned in other threads.

    I had mentioned your name to recognize that EQ had a changing point once SOE took over.

     

    I do think auto consume food was present on day one. That doesn't really make it a QoL unless it was taken from another game where you had to manually eat.

     

    Ps : i just discovered food timer on EQ was different for each race and halflings had to eat twice as much as humans. Quite funny !

    • 872 posts
    July 14, 2019 7:16 PM PDT

    I think this is a good thread because it's showing something that I think is a problem in game design. And that problem is everyone has a different idea of what “Quality of Life” means.

    Some players think allowing any class to teleport anywhere in the game world at any time a QoL feature. I would disagree. But I also disagree with the idea that shared bank is not a QoL feature.

    I define QoL as a feature that improves the game without taking anything away from the core game tenents. You could also define QoL as improvements that don’t make the game easier and/or trivializes aspects of gameplay.

    An example I made in other threads is something like a modable UI could be considered a QoL feature. It doesn’t make the game easier or change gameplay, but it provides an improvement to players. Another example I recently made was Target Group Buffs. People just dropped groups and entered new groups to do group buffs, so just eliminate the BS and add TGB. Everyone required to make that happen is in the immediate vacinity anyways so there's nothing game breaking about it.

    For shared bank, that doesn’t take away from the gameplay of managing a bank, or encumbrance, or inventory, or trading with other players. It just makes moving items between your own account more secure. I think it's unreasonable to expect us to be required to trust other players to move an item to another character on our account.


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at July 14, 2019 8:47 PM PDT
    • 2506 posts
    July 14, 2019 7:49 PM PDT

    ((And that problem is everyone has a different idea of what “Quality of Life” means.))

     

     Partly because there actually *is* no definition of what quality of life actually means in this context. How can we possibly agree on whether a feature is a QoL feature or is not one when we don't know what QoL means.

    I would start by saying that a quality of life feature is one that makes it easier to play the game. I haven't seen anyone attacking features that make the game slower or harder as QoL features so this part of the definition is probably not controversial at all.

    I would continue by saying that a quality of life feature is one that makes the game more like "modern" MMOs and less in the spirit of EQ and Vanguard,  The great majority seem to use the term when the ox that is getting gored is old school purity. A feature that makes the game easier to play *and* makes it more "old school" (if such a combination is even possible) would not be attacked as a QoL feature by those using the term.

    Thus, and I am just trying to advance the debate not push a point of view:

    A quality of life feature is one that makes Pantheon easier to play while making it more like modern MMOs and less in the spirit of EQ or Vanguard. 

     

    This doesn't advance the debate much even if universally adopted (and it will not be) because the spirit of EQ and Vanguard manifestly means different things to different people even if they played at the same time. Especially when ((chuckles)) features that were *in* EQ or Vanguard are attacked as being weak features inconsistent with the spirit of the games. Thus one can with great accuracy say that flying mounts, teleports to towns you have already visited, shared banks and other features anathma to many people here cannot possibly be QoL issues because they *came* from the sacred progenitors of Pantheon. 


    This post was edited by dorotea at July 14, 2019 7:50 PM PDT
    • 872 posts
    July 14, 2019 8:47 PM PDT

    dorotea said:

    I would start by saying that a quality of life feature is one that makes it easier to play the game. I haven't seen anyone attacking features that make the game slower or harder as QoL features so this part of the definition is probably not controversial at all.

    I would disagree with that. I gave two examples of QoL features that I do not think break the game from a gameplay tenent perspective (modable UI and shared bank). Would you say those two features make the game easier in context of the game tenents?

    • 27 posts
    July 14, 2019 11:25 PM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    I think this is a good thread because it's showing something that I think is a problem in game design. And that problem is everyone has a different idea of what “Quality of Life” means.

    Some players think allowing any class to teleport anywhere in the game world at any time a QoL feature. I would disagree. But I also disagree with the idea that shared bank is not a QoL feature.

    I define QoL as a feature that improves the game without taking anything away from the core game tenents. You could also define QoL as improvements that don’t make the game easier and/or trivializes aspects of gameplay.

    An example I made in other threads is something like a modable UI could be considered a QoL feature. It doesn’t make the game easier or change gameplay, but it provides an improvement to players. Another example I recently made was Target Group Buffs. People just dropped groups and entered new groups to do group buffs, so just eliminate the BS and add TGB. Everyone required to make that happen is in the immediate vacinity anyways so there's nothing game breaking about it.

    For shared bank, that doesn’t take away from the gameplay of managing a bank, or encumbrance, or inventory, or trading with other players. It just makes moving items between your own account more secure. I think it's unreasonable to expect us to be required to trust other players to move an item to another character on our account.

     

    Agree,

    Other QOL features and some must haves that would not take away from the Tenets of the game

    *Stackable Loot stacking to 999. Every MMO ive ever played starts with stackable loot maxing out at 20 or 99, this leads to more downtime as players have to run back to a merchants frequently.

    *Enough merchants in game vs having to zone to unload your inventory. Dont randomly place them, but have them follow along with the local lore of the zone, a known base camp

    *Accurate and updated tool tips on abilities, every time there is a change to a class ability, tool tips must be updated.

    *A optional Introduction (or Quest line) for new players to Pantheon, giving a detailed understanding of what stats do for you and a reminder that choices have consequences (we know someone is going to make a caster and put points in strength then cry about it later). 

    Other Great QOL features have already been mentioned, and I am sure others can think of more that do not go against the game Tenets.

     


    This post was edited by Arlore at July 14, 2019 11:26 PM PDT
    • 404 posts
    July 15, 2019 12:37 AM PDT
    MauvaisOeil said:

    "Ps : i just discovered food timer on EQ was different for each race and halflings had to eat twice as much as humans. Quite funny !"

    Oh VR, pleeease include brilliant additions like this =)

    Less automated processes the better, though not sure when anyone in EQ had to manually eat/drink =P
    • 298 posts
    July 15, 2019 4:57 AM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    Vandraad said:

    Chanus said:

    Entertainment and challenge are not mutually exclusive.

    Their definitions are also entirely fluid.

    So very true. I wish more people understood that fact.

    Sorry but your both wrong, Entertainment is the action of providing or being provided with amusement or enjoyment, and challenge is a call to take part in a contest or competition, but more specifically challenging is testing one's abilities.

    Individuals can find entertainment in challenging ones abilities, but their not fluid, as in interchangeable. I find entertainment while watching a movie, theres nothing particularly challenging about it, I find it challenging to “bite my tongue” around certain people, but its certainly not entertaining to me.

    I'm not sure you understand what mutually exclusive means.

    A thing does not need to be entertaining to be challenging.

    A thing does not need to be challenging to be entertaining.

    A thing can be both entertaining and challenging at the same time.

    And we all disagree on what is entertaining and what is challenging. 

    • 298 posts
    July 15, 2019 4:59 AM PDT

    Alexander said: MauvaisOeil said: "Ps : i just discovered food timer on EQ was different for each race and halflings had to eat twice as much as humans. Quite funny !" Oh VR, pleeease include brilliant additions like this =) Less automated processes the better, though not sure when anyone in EQ had to manually eat/drink =P

    No one ever had to manually consume food and drink in Everquest unless they were force feeding themselves to prevent consuming stat-boosting food and drink.

    I'm not sure something so easily trivialized as needing to have food and water on hand adds anything useful to the game, and I'm not sure making it so necessary that it isn't trivial adds anything desirable to the game.