Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

The Scale of Infamy

    • 521 posts
    July 10, 2019 1:46 PM PDT

    Perhaps I didn't explain it well, or maybe it was a issue with how to measure it, But I’m talking about the fact that stories have Heroes (or Villains), The Bigger than life personalities.

    In MMO’s were all heroes, so than makes noone a hero. I’d like a way to break away from the herd

    • 1921 posts
    July 10, 2019 1:54 PM PDT

    The complete customization (within caps) of all skills, spells, effects, bonuses, and gear is possible, but this isn't the game that will do it, unfortunately, HemlockReaper.

    • 1095 posts
    July 10, 2019 1:56 PM PDT

    Yet another reputation thread but I tend to fall under Infamy.


    This post was edited by Aich at July 10, 2019 1:57 PM PDT
    • 1428 posts
    July 10, 2019 3:41 PM PDT
    I agree we should all be a bunch of nobodies living in the world of terminus. It is better to stand out amongst your own deeds than that of a superficial system. The only person that should define me is me.
    • 1095 posts
    July 10, 2019 4:11 PM PDT

    stellarmind said: I agree we should all be a bunch of nobodies living in the world of terminus. It is better to stand out amongst your own deeds than that of a superficial system. The only person that should define me is me.

    I disagree, I can define you. Your the box I will rest my feet upon. :)

    • 624 posts
    July 10, 2019 5:43 PM PDT

    I will define Stellarmind as well - in a sappy, long, rambling ode with a bit of a sour twisting tune - repeated endlessly in a not-quite-rhyming chorus. Probably end it with a sudden, smashing coda - to represent the death blow this bard is oh-so-likely to suffer once everyone on the server is singing Stellarmind's Surprising Earworm Anthem...

    Even though PvP is not my thing, I will start composing now - prepare for incoming bard attack. ;)

    PS - I want my fame to be generated solely by my actions, and see no need to log it digitally.  Folk will know me, or not, as it has always been.


    This post was edited by Kumu at July 10, 2019 5:44 PM PDT
    • 1019 posts
    July 10, 2019 5:59 PM PDT

    I think the whole idea of reputation, and everyone thinking that "reputation" is going to matter is way overblown.  It might matter to the few dozen people who will care what others think of them but as a whole and when guilds form, reputation won't count for anything.  Actually, as I've seen from some guilds towards other guilds, being a jerk is encouraged.

    No one will care about reputation in the beginning, not a single person will worry about their actions towards someone else in the first 3 weeks of release.  After that for a few years or so, cries will go out in /ooc or /global that "X did Y, and I'm mad so you all should be also" which will largly fall on deaf ears.  After that people will all be guild or alliance only grouping and avoid everyone else anyway.

    Reputation (as everyone here thinks of it) will only matter in 5 or 6 years when the games player base has shrunk down to it's more loyal fans, and then it's just those fans playing that are the real issue because by then they think they are some part owner and keeper of the game and most like they are the main reason it's not growing, but slowly heading towards server merging / staff reduction / shut down.

    • 1428 posts
    July 10, 2019 6:26 PM PDT

    Aich said:

    stellarmind said: I agree we should all be a bunch of nobodies living in the world of terminus. It is better to stand out amongst your own deeds than that of a superficial system. The only person that should define me is me.

    I disagree, I can define you. Your the box I will rest my feet upon. :)

    you can define me, but only my definition of me matters.

    • 145 posts
    July 11, 2019 12:06 AM PDT

    i understand the op idea but it is basically an indicator of time played imo but I also believe that just because you can create something doesnt mean you need to. Reputation will happen by itself we dont need a system to further complicate it

    • 78 posts
    July 11, 2019 2:13 AM PDT

    Kittik said:

    I think the whole idea of reputation, and everyone thinking that "reputation" is going to matter is way overblown.  It might matter to the few dozen people who will care what others think of them but as a whole and when guilds form, reputation won't count for anything.  Actually, as I've seen from some guilds towards other guilds, being a jerk is encouraged.

    No one will care about reputation in the beginning, not a single person will worry about their actions towards someone else in the first 3 weeks of release.  After that for a few years or so, cries will go out in /ooc or /global that "X did Y, and I'm mad so you all should be also" which will largly fall on deaf ears.  After that people will all be guild or alliance only grouping and avoid everyone else anyway.

    Reputation (as everyone here thinks of it) will only matter in 5 or 6 years when the games player base has shrunk down to it's more loyal fans, and then it's just those fans playing that are the real issue because by then they think they are some part owner and keeper of the game and most like they are the main reason it's not growing, but slowly heading towards server merging / staff reduction / shut down.

     

    Beautiful! Everyone needs to read this, this is #FACT. Sometimes on these forums I feel the best posts are just ignored, you sir have hit the nail on the head here. I really hate how everyone acts as if there won't be multiple guilds ( full, new, growing ) that take advantage of the players that follow these "rules" that people have created. Therefore they'll be gearing up faster, more efficiently, and just as happily as the rest of us, able to find groups whenever they want with like minded people. But you guys go ahead and keep making your notes, lol. I'm saying this as a respectful player that does/will follow these "rules" we've created, just a realist.

    I re-subscribed to the forums just to reply to this message, good job.


    This post was edited by TLogan at July 11, 2019 2:15 AM PDT
    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 5:53 AM PDT

    stonetothebone85 said:

    i understand the op idea but it is basically an indicator of time played imo but I also believe that just because you can create something doesnt mean you need to. Reputation will happen by itself we dont need a system to further complicate it

     

    Yes, I agree it really boils down to a indicator of your achievements, much like a epic flaming sword you display in the starter town, but it would be nice if those achievements could be echoed in part by the local NPC’s, IE The talk of the town.

    • 1584 posts
    July 11, 2019 6:04 AM PDT

    Kittik said:

    I think the whole idea of reputation, and everyone thinking that "reputation" is going to matter is way overblown.  It might matter to the few dozen people who will care what others think of them but as a whole and when guilds form, reputation won't count for anything.  Actually, as I've seen from some guilds towards other guilds, being a jerk is encouraged.

    No one will care about reputation in the beginning, not a single person will worry about their actions towards someone else in the first 3 weeks of release.  After that for a few years or so, cries will go out in /ooc or /global that "X did Y, and I'm mad so you all should be also" which will largly fall on deaf ears.  After that people will all be guild or alliance only grouping and avoid everyone else anyway.

    Reputation (as everyone here thinks of it) will only matter in 5 or 6 years when the games player base has shrunk down to it's more loyal fans, and then it's just those fans playing that are the real issue because by then they think they are some part owner and keeper of the game and most like they are the main reason it's not growing, but slowly heading towards server merging / staff reduction / shut down.

    Nice to see you alrdy put an expiration date of our game kittik, if your opinion of mmorpgs is so low than why even bother playing them?  Yes I don't think this repuation system is a good idea, it will get manipulated by multiple guilds and will become a useless feature that's just the truth of it.  But to put up a chart of events of how the game is basically going to fail isn't only not helpful, but I honestly hope this game proves you wrong so you'll change your mind.  There can be a lot of things done.  For one the devs can put a firm grip on bad behavior at the beginning, or have a way people can exp easier without seeing 100 level 1 characters to prevent bad behavior.

    • 78 posts
    July 11, 2019 8:04 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Kittik said:

    I think the whole idea of reputation, and everyone thinking that "reputation" is going to matter is way overblown.  It might matter to the few dozen people who will care what others think of them but as a whole and when guilds form, reputation won't count for anything.  Actually, as I've seen from some guilds towards other guilds, being a jerk is encouraged.

    No one will care about reputation in the beginning, not a single person will worry about their actions towards someone else in the first 3 weeks of release.  After that for a few years or so, cries will go out in /ooc or /global that "X did Y, and I'm mad so you all should be also" which will largly fall on deaf ears.  After that people will all be guild or alliance only grouping and avoid everyone else anyway.

    Reputation (as everyone here thinks of it) will only matter in 5 or 6 years when the games player base has shrunk down to it's more loyal fans, and then it's just those fans playing that are the real issue because by then they think they are some part owner and keeper of the game and most like they are the main reason it's not growing, but slowly heading towards server merging / staff reduction / shut down.

    Nice to see you alrdy put an expiration date of our game kittik, if your opinion of mmorpgs is so low than why even bother playing them?  Yes I don't think this repuation system is a good idea, it will get manipulated by multiple guilds and will become a useless feature that's just the truth of it.  But to put up a chart of events of how the game is basically going to fail isn't only not helpful, but I honestly hope this game proves you wrong so you'll change your mind.  There can be a lot of things done.  For one the devs can put a firm grip on bad behavior at the beginning, or have a way people can exp easier without seeing 100 level 1 characters to prevent bad behavior.

    Woah, come on now, I don't think you understand his/her post at all. It's not even necessarily about this post specifically/entirely, it's about this entire belief that people seem to have here that the community can completely moderate itself. I firmly agree with the post, and it's something that I hope the devs realize as well. The amount of people that care not for the established "rules" (camp stealing etc.) is far greater than most think, and they do tend to band together, and they'll all have multiple characters, with no way to track them/keep notes unless there is account wide identification, even that won't stop some. There are a lot of potential fixes that have been implemented in games (like sharing mob exp/loot with all involed in the fight) I'm in no way suggesting this should be implemented, I'm hoping the devs make the right decisions on what to implement because just relying on "/ooc "Logan stole my kill again, everyone make note"." isn't going to do anything at all but make you look foolish while they flourish.

    • 36 posts
    July 11, 2019 9:09 AM PDT

    Riahuf22 said:

    Kittik said:

    I think the whole idea of reputation, and everyone thinking that "reputation" is going to matter is way overblown.  It might matter to the few dozen people who will care what others think of them but as a whole and when guilds form, reputation won't count for anything.  Actually, as I've seen from some guilds towards other guilds, being a jerk is encouraged.

    No one will care about reputation in the beginning, not a single person will worry about their actions towards someone else in the first 3 weeks of release.  After that for a few years or so, cries will go out in /ooc or /global that "X did Y, and I'm mad so you all should be also" which will largly fall on deaf ears.  After that people will all be guild or alliance only grouping and avoid everyone else anyway.

    Reputation (as everyone here thinks of it) will only matter in 5 or 6 years when the games player base has shrunk down to it's more loyal fans, and then it's just those fans playing that are the real issue because by then they think they are some part owner and keeper of the game and most like they are the main reason it's not growing, but slowly heading towards server merging / staff reduction / shut down.

    Nice to see you alrdy put an expiration date of our game kittik, if your opinion of mmorpgs is so low than why even bother playing them?  Yes I don't think this repuation system is a good idea, it will get manipulated by multiple guilds and will become a useless feature that's just the truth of it.  But to put up a chart of events of how the game is basically going to fail isn't only not helpful, but I honestly hope this game proves you wrong so you'll change your mind.  There can be a lot of things done.  For one the devs can put a firm grip on bad behavior at the beginning, or have a way people can exp easier without seeing 100 level 1 characters to prevent bad behavior.

    The example in his post was based on the majority of MMO's that has existed. His purpose was to identify a known issue that past MMORPG's have become victim to so that upcoming MMORPG's have an opportunity to address it. Continued growth is important, yet extremely difficult to achieve. Typically expansions help alleviate the tiresomeness that a large population experiences with a game that has grown stale due to the lack of new content.

    His post has almost nothing to do with Pantheon theoretically versus hypothetically. Remember, the game is still in development and the majority of the posts on this Forum is based on hypotheticals and dreams.


    This post was edited by ipDRe at July 11, 2019 9:10 AM PDT
    • 36 posts
    July 11, 2019 9:17 AM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    It goes without saying that reputation is something that is meant to carry weight in Pantheon. A system that I suggest should be more than a means of tagging the scammers, deviants or undesirables to avoid.

    What if, your reputation was a reflection of your deeds, a measurement of your fame/infamy and carried with it bonues or penalties based on your position in the scale. A scale that for example, and simplicity could be measured as Total Villain -10 to Hero +10, with a commoner being at 0.

    To calculate your position on the scale, every completed Quest/Raid, invite, PVP kill, Heal, @mention in chat, Number Players Buying/using your crafted items, ect.. could be used as a measurement of your “Fame” against other players on a curve, Making the difficultly of reaching absolute -10 or +10 based on the collective efforts of players.

    Some Examples: NPC’s could mention at random hearing stories of your deeds to other players as they stroll though town. Prices of items could be discounted or hiked based on your level of fame, assuming villains would have a Pantheon equivalent of thieves landing. A Hall of Deeds could display statues of the players characters, and mob Aggro could increase as your fame rises, or lesson as your infamy rises. Fame Score, Could be displayed like your health and stamina.

    Food for thought.

    I like the idea at a high level. I feel there is a great opportunity to grow the infamy system in any game but I also agree Pantheon is probably not the game to do this in. This post definitely got my creative juices flowing and thinking about neat ways to grow the infamy system.

    There is another MMORPG coming out, around the same development timeline as Pantheon, that has a similar system to your idea. Their system is still in development but there is information out there you can read that will help explain what they're doing. The game is very PvP focused, which I feel caters more to this type of system then a PvE focused game. I won't name the game because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. All I will say is that Pantheon will be a much better game then this other one that I'm referring to :)


    This post was edited by ipDRe at July 11, 2019 9:18 AM PDT
    • 1428 posts
    July 11, 2019 11:05 AM PDT

    ipDRe said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    It goes without saying that reputation is something that is meant to carry weight in Pantheon. A system that I suggest should be more than a means of tagging the scammers, deviants or undesirables to avoid.

    What if, your reputation was a reflection of your deeds, a measurement of your fame/infamy and carried with it bonues or penalties based on your position in the scale. A scale that for example, and simplicity could be measured as Total Villain -10 to Hero +10, with a commoner being at 0.

    To calculate your position on the scale, every completed Quest/Raid, invite, PVP kill, Heal, @mention in chat, Number Players Buying/using your crafted items, ect.. could be used as a measurement of your “Fame” against other players on a curve, Making the difficultly of reaching absolute -10 or +10 based on the collective efforts of players.

    Some Examples: NPC’s could mention at random hearing stories of your deeds to other players as they stroll though town. Prices of items could be discounted or hiked based on your level of fame, assuming villains would have a Pantheon equivalent of thieves landing. A Hall of Deeds could display statues of the players characters, and mob Aggro could increase as your fame rises, or lesson as your infamy rises. Fame Score, Could be displayed like your health and stamina.

    Food for thought.

    I like the idea at a high level. I feel there is a great opportunity to grow the infamy system in any game but I also agree Pantheon is probably not the game to do this in. This post definitely got my creative juices flowing and thinking about neat ways to grow the infamy system.

    There is another MMORPG coming out, around the same development timeline as Pantheon, that has a similar system to your idea. Their system is still in development but there is information out there you can read that will help explain what they're doing. The game is very PvP focused, which I feel caters more to this type of system then a PvE focused game. I won't name the game because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. All I will say is that Pantheon will be a much better game then this other one that I'm referring to :)

    fame and infamy works in single player games.  since in mmos, we are all suppose to be plebs, the system would not work well.  imma beat this dead horse... what's the point if everyone is going to be saviour of terminus, ruler of the 9th realm, supreme caster of the 12th tier, dragonborn, master of the thieves guild, ultimate assassin of terminus intelligence agency (tia), avatar of aradune, some other cheap meaningless title that everyone else has, etc etc etc.

    personal opinion:  the really good mmos are the ones where we are nobodies.  every single mmo i've played where they start to hype up the player as a hero falls to ruins.

    let thy peers tell the tale of thy deeds for one who boasts his own are merely drunkards living in a false fantasy.

    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 11:47 AM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    ipDRe said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    It goes without saying that reputation is something that is meant to carry weight in Pantheon. A system that I suggest should be more than a means of tagging the scammers, deviants or undesirables to avoid.

    What if, your reputation was a reflection of your deeds, a measurement of your fame/infamy and carried with it bonues or penalties based on your position in the scale. A scale that for example, and simplicity could be measured as Total Villain -10 to Hero +10, with a commoner being at 0.

    To calculate your position on the scale, every completed Quest/Raid, invite, PVP kill, Heal, @mention in chat, Number Players Buying/using your crafted items, ect.. could be used as a measurement of your “Fame” against other players on a curve, Making the difficultly of reaching absolute -10 or +10 based on the collective efforts of players.

    Some Examples: NPC’s could mention at random hearing stories of your deeds to other players as they stroll though town. Prices of items could be discounted or hiked based on your level of fame, assuming villains would have a Pantheon equivalent of thieves landing. A Hall of Deeds could display statues of the players characters, and mob Aggro could increase as your fame rises, or lesson as your infamy rises. Fame Score, Could be displayed like your health and stamina.

    Food for thought.

    I like the idea at a high level. I feel there is a great opportunity to grow the infamy system in any game but I also agree Pantheon is probably not the game to do this in. This post definitely got my creative juices flowing and thinking about neat ways to grow the infamy system.

    There is another MMORPG coming out, around the same development timeline as Pantheon, that has a similar system to your idea. Their system is still in development but there is information out there you can read that will help explain what they're doing. The game is very PvP focused, which I feel caters more to this type of system then a PvE focused game. I won't name the game because I'm not sure if I'm allowed to. All I will say is that Pantheon will be a much better game then this other one that I'm referring to :)

    fame and infamy works in single player games.  since in mmos, we are all suppose to be plebs, the system would not work well.  imma beat this dead horse... what's the point if everyone is going to be saviour of terminus, ruler of the 9th realm, supreme caster of the 12th tier, dragonborn, master of the thieves guild, ultimate assassin of terminus intelligence agency (tia), avatar of aradune, some other cheap meaningless title that everyone else has, etc etc etc.

    personal opinion:  the really good mmos are the ones where we are nobodies.  every single mmo i've played where they start to hype up the player as a hero falls to ruins.

    let thy peers tell the tale of thy deeds for one who boasts his own are merely drunkards living in a false fantasy.

     

    Thats exactly the point, to separate yourselves from the herd. Your fame as a “hero” is a measure of your heroic deeds, now as mentioned thats going to happen anyway overtime, certain players will become known for whatever it is they do.

    This would simply incorporate that into the game environment. IE The NPC’s. Incidentally I would hardy call this a “dead Horse” after barely 2 pages

    • 1428 posts
    July 11, 2019 12:15 PM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    stellarmind said:

    ipDRe said:

    HemlockReaper said:

     

     

    Thats exactly the point, to separate yourselves from the herd. Your fame as a “hero” is a measure of your heroic deeds, now as mentioned thats going to happen anyway overtime, certain players will become known for whatever it is they do.

    This would simply incorporate that into the game environment. IE The NPC’s. Incidentally I would hardy call this a “dead Horse” after barely 2 pages

    ah, something like this was discussed b4 for clarification.

    kill quest = pest extermination

    gathering quest = getting hardware at home depot

    delivery quest = usps

    escort quest = pushing the shopping cart for my mom's groceries

    players are nobodies.

    now if you equate some difficult epic quest that would be simaliar to taking down apple or google, that's how difficult it should be to slay a dragon.  i'd be okay if you got some fancy title for that.

     

    to scale it to a relatable mmo, getting rank 14 for pvp in classic wow was special because it was population based and you are competing with other players.

     

    i would agree to your system if it your title could be affected by other players.

     

    for example:  the rat slayer title is awarded to the player with the highest rat kills and gets a bonus damage to vermin plus 10 or access to specialize rat killing gear that you can buy.  sussyplayer surpasses me in maximum rat kills and the overtakes me as the top rat slayer.  titles reset weekly.

     

    this is an indirect pvp system in a sense.

     

    a lot of people are going to complain about systems like this because only the dedicated would be able to acheive it.

    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 12:27 PM PDT

    "a lot of people are going to complain about systems like this because only the dedicated would be able to acheive it."

     

    That describes the Old School PVE Dungeon Randing MMO’s of yesteryear, which I belve this game is striving to emulate

     

    • 1428 posts
    July 11, 2019 12:35 PM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    "a lot of people are going to complain about systems like this because only the dedicated would be able to acheive it."

     

    That describes the Old School PVE Dungeon Randing MMO’s of yesteryear, which I belve this game is striving to emulate

     

    so you're supporting a pvp system?  huh... that's new.

    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 12:49 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    "a lot of people are going to complain about systems like this because only the dedicated would be able to acheive it."

     

    That describes the Old School PVE Dungeon Randing MMO’s of yesteryear, which I belve this game is striving to emulate

     

    so you're supporting a pvp system?  huh... that's new.

    pvp system? 

    • 1428 posts
    July 11, 2019 1:01 PM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    stellarmind said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    "a lot of people are going to complain about systems like this because only the dedicated would be able to acheive it."

     

    That describes the Old School PVE Dungeon Randing MMO’s of yesteryear, which I belve this game is striving to emulate

     

    so you're supporting a pvp system?  huh... that's new.

    pvp system? 

     

    you and i are competing for the title of 'ultimate vermin slayer'

    the title is only awarded to the character with the highest vermin kills for the week.  rating degrades over time and you lose rank if you no longer hold it.  you can have subranks:

    legendary vermin slayer: top 1%

    epic vermin slayer: top 5%

    etc etc

    with obtaining the highest rank, you get special access to the best vermin slaying equipment.  lower ranks get lesser versions.

     

    it's a ladder system for players who are interested in vermin killing.  say there's a high end raid there is a boss classified as a vermin.  you can see where this is going :D  eat your heart out min/maxers

    in a sense, it is an indirect pvp ladder system to hold the title.

    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 1:07 PM PDT

    I suggested Fame, not titles. Now I’m not against a Title system, but thats not what I was going for with this post.

    • 1428 posts
    July 11, 2019 1:09 PM PDT

    HemlockReaper said:

    I suggested Fame, not titles. Now I’m not against a Title system, but thats not what I was going for with this post.

    how do i know who's a famous goblin slayer if there is no title? 

    • 521 posts
    July 11, 2019 1:12 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    HemlockReaper said:

    I suggested Fame, not titles. Now I’m not against a Title system, but thats not what I was going for with this post.

    how do i know who's a famous goblin slayer if there is no title? 

     

    Fame Bar, Simmliar to health bar