Forums » The Bard

Should Bards where Plate Armor?

    • 477 posts
    June 28, 2019 8:10 AM PDT
    Lether or light mail at most, if you ask me it breaks realisme if a full plate waring musician is a part of Pantheon..
    • 694 posts
    June 28, 2019 10:23 AM PDT

    They currently have plate armor items for bards.  But it's not copying EQ, so we should stop comparing the classes like DL -=eyeroll=-  

    Add: But for the record, I agree with leather or mail for immersion of an actual musician/poet... (I would think even mail would be too heavy).

     


    This post was edited by Darch at June 28, 2019 10:25 AM PDT
    • 467 posts
    June 28, 2019 10:29 AM PDT

    Same answer as the sister thread https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4052/what-weapons-and-armor-would-you-like-to-see

    I only think of bards in plate since EQ  :)

    • 220 posts
    June 28, 2019 1:56 PM PDT

    I don't mind bards wearing plate, would make it 4 classes using plate though, going to have to have some diverse plate items.

    Just because they can use plate does not mean the best items for them will be plate, there may be a leather tunic that is too well stated for a bard to pass up, just means they will have the flexibility of all the armours.


    This post was edited by Kellie at June 28, 2019 2:05 PM PDT
    • 694 posts
    June 28, 2019 4:41 PM PDT

    Kellie said:

    I don't mind bards wearing plate, would make it 4 classes using plate though, going to have to have some diverse plate items.

    Just because they can use plate does not mean the best items for them will be plate, there may be a leather tunic that is too well stated for a bard to pass up, just means they will have the flexibility of all the armours.

    I completely understand where you are coming from with your opinion of "versatility", but frankly this is why I feel they shouldn't be able to wear all armors; In particular, when there is a tank class that can't wear all armors.  On an imersion scale of 0-10 item appearance and believability is up around 8 in my book - I'll play any game for a while, but will only stick with a game if I feel immersed in the world. 

    Things that contribute to immersion for me are:
    -Creating a character that looks how I "want" to look (within reason) -  Armor is a big factor here!  (It determines what you look like because that is all you see unless you are on a CR!)  I also don't want to imagine I'm a Human Engineer going to work every day... I want to escape reality by living in (being immersed in) a believable alternate reality.  -  I'm expecting this to be the worst aspect for me "personally", because none of the race/class choices would be my first pick.  (I don't want to "fantasize" about being a human... or female.)
    -Skill/ability response time (not including internet/server delay) - I'm expecting this to be the best point in the game for me.
    -Skill/ability animations - expecting these to be similar to EQ which I was fine with
    -Ability to be somewhat unique within my social group (if every other Paladin looks identical to me aside from dye choices and even has all of the same skills, I play just to play, not because I'm immersed).  Hoping for horizontal progression for this because the race/class matrix greatly restricts this otherwise.
    -Enemy creativity/AI - expecting EQ NPC mentality with a couple of twists, which I'll be fine with ultimately but I'm not expecting much immersion from it here.


    This post was edited by Darch at June 28, 2019 4:43 PM PDT
    • 733 posts
    June 28, 2019 6:11 PM PDT

    This thread is a duplication as Tigersin pointed out - but my strong personal preference (you don't have to agree) is =>

    Leather pants, silk doublet, feathered cap! Music is my armor, charisma my weapon and shield.

     

    Make your group look good, while looking good...

    • 477 posts
    June 28, 2019 10:11 PM PDT
    I have seen the other thread, its about weapons and Armor and ppl are answering leftand right.

    This is only about Plate Armor and the hope that its not avsilable for Bards, its just unnessesarry to be honest. #GivePlateToTanks
    • 21 posts
    June 29, 2019 7:59 PM PDT

    Should bards be able to play stringed instruments while wearing gloves?

    • 409 posts
    July 15, 2019 1:08 AM PDT
    Haha kdavis!
    • 104 posts
    July 15, 2019 6:58 PM PDT

    I would go with no.. I think up to Mail perhaps, but not full blown plate. 

    • 20 posts
    July 21, 2019 7:33 PM PDT

    Bottom line here is, how much reality are you going to suspend for gameplay?  Should warriors that fall into water drown because they cannot swim in plate?  Where do you draw the line?  Let's assume that in EQ, Bards wore plate because of game agro mechanics.  Bards had a tendency to agro mob's at range because a buff song would affect a groupmate at the top of the agro list and put the Bard at the top and the mob would rush the Bard and start playing a tune on her skull.  So to counter that mechanic, the dev's put Bards in plate.

    That said, I would love for Bard's in RotF to be different.  Perhaps a ranged based light melee DPS class that wears light armor and accels at NOT getting agro.  This would allow the Bard to fill multiple roles when needed from light off tanking, CC, healing, etc. without having to worry too much about drawing agro.

    • 6 posts
    July 23, 2019 5:06 PM PDT

    I think Bards should indeed wear plate and here's why ... 

     

    Everything ive seen about bards so far is very similar to eq  bards which im a big fan of ...  from charming to mezzing to buffing... I'm going out on a limb here but bards may be  pulling aswell ...  

    The greatest joy I've ever had (still have)  was  chain pulling mobs ... This requires me  to get hit from time to time  while i park mobs  directly infront of the group... I'd  cast my low duration songs while smacking the unmezzed mob.   Rinse and repeat... 

    (speculation ensues)

    Enchanter vs Bard as your CC ... 

    Enchanters  will be  very reactive CC  they will lock most adds  down in camp after  they arrive with a longer duration  mezz spell to a bards mezz song... 

    Bards likely will be more  dynamic in other ways ... taking on a pulling CC role ...  controling most mobs  at the start of the pull rather than after they get to camp.  

    Thus is  the way of the Maestro!

     

    Side note I'm sure enchanters  will help with pulls  but in my view it  will be  to mezz a mob in packs of  2 or 3 to lessen the  threat of first impact ... 

     

    Buffs  

    Bards will probably have the shortest duration buffs in the game (likely Seconds)  before departing for dangerous territory again to pull more mobs ... 

    Debuffs are  likely  going to be similar ...  short duration ... otherwise  what are  we ... enchanters and should wear our light armor ... sitting in the back row :-) 

     

    There are reasons  other classes  have worn light armor in the past  including gear balancing 

    Rogues  light and stealthy DPS

    Monks DPS light and floppy  in eq (very light and floppy) as the more weight  you had impacted your dps> traditional puller too but with extra martial like evasion skills

    Rangers DPS ... light  and the ability to be  ranged/melee... awesome tool kits  too..... snare and ROOT to pull much like an enchanter parking the mobs  after they arrive in camp

     

    Lastly Gear Balancing 

    Tanks  - all threee plate  1 per group in a traditional make-up 

    Healers  one of each  1 plate  1 chain 1 leather 1 per group in a  tradional make up

    DPS  wizards , and summoners (cloth) ranger/rogue chain monk Leather   3 per group  in a tradional make up 

    CC bards , enchanters  1 plate 1 cloth    1 per group in a tradional make up

     

    worst case scenario for  chain bard                 Worst case for plate bard           

    warrior plate                                                 Warrior Plate

    shaman chain                                                Cleric Plate

    bard chain                                                     Bard Plate

    ranger chain                                                  any 3 dps classes 

    rogue chain

    wizard cloth

     

    Just my thoughts and wild presumptive speculation :-) 

     

     

     

     

     

    • 1653 posts
    July 23, 2019 10:20 PM PDT

    Ickireas1 said:

    I think Bards should indeed wear plate and here's why ... 

     

    Everything ive seen about bards so far is very similar to eq  bards which im a big fan of ...  from charming to mezzing to buffing... I'm going out on a limb here but bards may be  pulling aswell ...  

    The greatest joy I've ever had (still have)  was  chain pulling mobs ... This requires me  to get hit from time to time  while i park mobs  directly infront of the group... I'd  cast my low duration songs while smacking the unmezzed mob.   Rinse and repeat... 

    (speculation ensues)

    Enchanter vs Bard as your CC ... 

    Enchanters  will be  very reactive CC  they will lock most adds  down in camp after  they arrive with a longer duration  mezz spell to a bards mezz song... 

    Bards likely will be more  dynamic in other ways ... taking on a pulling CC role ...  controling most mobs  at the start of the pull rather than after they get to camp.  

    Thus is  the way of the Maestro!

     

    Side note I'm sure enchanters  will help with pulls  but in my view it  will be  to mezz a mob in packs of  2 or 3 to lessen the  threat of first impact ... 

     

    Buffs  

    Bards will probably have the shortest duration buffs in the game (likely Seconds)  before departing for dangerous territory again to pull more mobs ... 

    Debuffs are  likely  going to be similar ...  short duration ... otherwise  what are  we ... enchanters and should wear our light armor ... sitting in the back row :-) 

     

    There are reasons  other classes  have worn light armor in the past  including gear balancing 

    Rogues  light and stealthy DPS

    Monks DPS light and floppy  in eq (very light and floppy) as the more weight  you had impacted your dps> traditional puller too but with extra martial like evasion skills

    Rangers DPS ... light  and the ability to be  ranged/melee... awesome tool kits  too..... snare and ROOT to pull much like an enchanter parking the mobs  after they arrive in camp

     

    Lastly Gear Balancing 

    Tanks  - all threee plate  1 per group in a traditional make-up 

    Healers  one of each  1 plate  1 chain 1 leather 1 per group in a  tradional make up

    DPS  wizards , and summoners (cloth) ranger/rogue chain monk Leather   3 per group  in a tradional make up 

    CC bards , enchanters  1 plate 1 cloth    1 per group in a tradional make up

     

    worst case scenario for  chain bard                 Worst case for plate bard           

    warrior plate                                                 Warrior Plate

    shaman chain                                                Cleric Plate

    bard chain                                                     Bard Plate

    ranger chain                                                  any 3 dps classes 

    rogue chain

    wizard cloth

     

    Just my thoughts and wild presumptive speculation :-) 

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Honestly... there are no info about the bard for now so... everything you saw about the bard can be summed up to "nothing".

     

    About the comparison with other classes, I don't get why you put them in "light armor", as they were all using somewhat medium armor ? Ranger and Rogue were using Mail and Monk leather with innate bonuses making them more tanky than mail classes.

     

    Beeing hit somehow, sometimes or for some reason isn't advocating for plate wearing, other pullers will be hit too (Ranger, monk ?) ? And the Direlord itself will be a tank wearing mail armor, which implies taking hits won't be so much tied to wearing plate.

     

    In the end, don't get me wrong : I am not against bards wearing plate, I simply never understood why they designed the bard that way in EQ, which fantasy or core idea they had (and as well, Why giving them dual wield but not double attack ?), and I'm not buying your arguments for it. However I'm still eager to know more about how they envision the bard in Pantheon, plate wearing or anything else.

    • 6 posts
    July 24, 2019 4:54 AM PDT

    There is info you have to look for it in the streams and interviews ....  a piece of plate gear dropped  that was warrior cleric paladin bard   so im pretty sure they are planning on bard being in plate 

    I just saw last night that the dire lord would be in "heavy armor" that dropped in black rose keep... so my mistake there ...  (i don't keep up with the dire lord much) wasn't even paying much attention to Pantheon yet  until it was mentioned  that the bard should be available at launch.

     

    In the end most people that played an eq bard will be ok with  any armor  "but my preference  for the look of the class will be plate "  

     

    Rangers and rogues  in mail armor  never seemed as  "tanky" to me  being as they didn't have  monks  evasion /dodge skills

     

    Bards did  get double and tripple  attack but that was  down the road a good ways when eq started to blurr the lines between classes ... like most classes having fade now which was  a bard only class defining ability ... if  you don't  count a rogues escape which had a really long cool down .

     

    The bard in most peoples head im sure is a ranger  with a sword instead of a bow,  that sings  songs and has a feather in his cap  wandering around  villages  telling stories ... but  in my head its  someone that puts  down the lute,  straps on the heavy stuff  and gets to the front line with their allies to inspire them to be more heroic... insulting the enemy to be careless, and bolstering the group to exceed their normal limits ... 

    I'm positive  the bard will be amazing no matter which way they take them  but as for prefrence Plate armor all the way for me :-) 

    • 1653 posts
    July 24, 2019 5:36 AM PDT

    I saw that mension, but it remains very vague. The class hasn't been teased yet and we don't know if they are working, or not, on it. Perhaps it's a hint that "bard will be at release" or just an easter egg, I don't know. I just wouldn't take it as a proof yet.

     

    Your envision of the bard seems "paladin-esque" as a somehow, model of motivation, but I agree the bard can be considered as many, many things, depending of the universe and such.

    Outside of look, I just don't see the necessity of "plate" for a bard, either as a defense theme (not a tank), or as a theme. That's my whole problem.

    • 6 posts
    July 24, 2019 2:31 PM PDT

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Your envision of the bard seems "paladin-esque" as a somehow, model of motivation, but I agree the bard can be considered as many, many things, depending of the universe and such.

     

    This is a bard :-)    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INgDss5gUWg

     

    that guy laying dead on the ground ... Paladin .... fearless ... we both serve a purpose :-) 

    Like i said it's a prefrence  knowing I will take  hits ...   "jack of all trades master of none" including tanking  or at the least off tanking :-) 

     

    see 2 minutes in  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vebn1AN6KY

     


    This post was edited by Ickireas1 at July 24, 2019 2:38 PM PDT
    • 46 posts
    September 23, 2019 11:23 PM PDT

    I'm comfortable with the idea of Bards wearing armor. 

    I feel that there are many ideas of what a bard is "supposed" to be.  Throughout fantasy novels/history there are various takes on this as well.  Some are more on the non-combat related side (ie The Minstrel in Monty Python's Holy Grail), to Bard King of Laketown (JRR Tolkien's: The Hobbit) although it could be argued he was more akin to a Ranger & only a Bard in name.  There were also the bards of Stephen Lawhead's fantasy series (the Endless Knot & the Pendragon trilogy) whom were more druidic in nature ... =p  Would Brin & Jair Ohmsford (Wishsong of Shanara) count as well? 

    So the real question would be this imo:  What type of Bard are you?  As far as I know, classes can scale down their AC type, so if one prefers to RP a plate wearing, sword swinging, ballad orrator type, warrior-poet of old...we have a green light!  I find that varying approaches to the class/crafting will be really cool to see play out.  Pardon all the puns/play-on-words, triple entendres etc.

    Excited to see this class and all of it's potential glory!


    This post was edited by Travo at September 23, 2019 11:24 PM PDT
    • 62 posts
    November 5, 2019 9:22 PM PST
    No heavy metal jokes? =D
    I'm okay with plate armor and even more so with giving flexibility to make various armor types viable with Bard.
    • 694 posts
    November 6, 2019 5:53 PM PST

    I get how the Paladin/Warrior wear plate, and I get how the Ranger will wear mail, but what I don't get is why the Cleric gets plate, Bard will likely wear plate, Shaman will wear mail... and so will the DL?!?!  Why in the world would a "shaman" (spiritual healer) wear mail... aside from "because they do in EQ but this isn't EQ"?  Why wouldn't a druid and shaman wear the same armor, or a Rogue wear the same armor as a Ranger?  Why wouldn't a DL (a class designed to intentionally get punched in the face all day as their role) wear plate, but a class designed to sing/spin tales, be highly mobile/evasive and charming wear a suit of full plate (designed to protect/cover the entire body to include the face and head (which blocks/distorts your voice)- unlike Mail that the tank will be wearing)?  -=boggle=-  I play instruments IRL, and wearing clothes that are too tight (dress coat) or a winter coat makes playing more challenging... I couldn't imagine wearing 20lbs of resolute steel (and forget about gloves!)

    But I'm ok with w/e VR decides for the Bard.  I don't really care that much any more about immersion.


    This post was edited by Darch at November 6, 2019 6:00 PM PST
    • 733 posts
    November 7, 2019 5:30 PM PST

    At this point, I don't care what armor Bards wear, as this thread is a duplication of an earlier one. [But - it should be SILK armor]

      I just wish the thread title were spelled correctly - hurts my eyes every time this gets necro'd  


    This post was edited by Kumu at November 7, 2019 7:11 PM PST
    • 367 posts
    November 11, 2019 10:36 PM PST

    No weapons. They have instruments for a reason. I always said EQ got Bards wrong. Not to mention, plate gauntlets, when playing a lute or a flute? That makes absolutely zero sense.

    - Instruments only: No melee weapons. Meleeing only to constantly swap instruments in and out for effects is stupid.

    • Instruments act as a coefficient to the particular song composition you create.

    • Instruments can deal damage simlar to range weapons. Each weapon type has a different detrimental effect

    - Leather Armor: No plate. Why would you be in melee range when a delicate flute, lute or drums can be so easily damaged? 

    • Aesthetic addition: for the class, cloth or leather gloves have their fingers removed to allow for the required dexterity and touch for wind and stringed instruments.

     

    Example


    This post was edited by Janus at November 11, 2019 10:38 PM PST
    • 325 posts
    November 12, 2019 4:00 AM PST

    In my opinion leather only - hard to imagine that a bard had his most precious posession - lute, bumping over (plate) mail. If the functionality of a bard is the reason why this was introduced then I'd rather have special bard-only sets of armour with the extra enhancement to AC, evasion, dodge or hp.

    • 183 posts
    November 12, 2019 7:28 PM PST

    For a bit bards were treated like knights in EQ being able to equip knight one handers. They stopped before PoP but that WAS the route EQ took early on.......much later bards got a taunt AA ability and a song that defensively procced a 4 second stun upto well above your own level. Bard were tanks in EQ before I retired. Atleast versus trash mobs. We mark tanked alot in raids with many targets as well. The taunt was strong and instant. Fun times. Boo to silk. Heavy Metal Bards forever!

    • 183 posts
    November 12, 2019 7:41 PM PST

    http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=11927 is actually the only one I see. Still. Being able to mark tank in the end game was like another form of CC. I couldnt tank long duration, but I could get a loose mob off a healer and live long enough for a tank to come over.... and it was a blast. Id love to see that style of bard in Pantheon. Max CC.

    • 367 posts
    November 13, 2019 1:55 PM PST

    If Bards are tanks then they removes them from the Control/Support role. This is why I very much doubt they would go that way nor would it be a good idea. Enchanters are their peers and should be designed around that. Enchanters can take a few hits with Runeskin and I feel Bards in leather would be a comparable gear selection to keep them in a similar place.