Forums » The Bard

Should Bards where Plate Armor?

    • 1349 posts
    November 16, 2019 7:20 AM PST

    Particular comparisons to EQ aside, if I may?

    My image of a bard has nothing to do with plate armor.  Never seen or heard of amything like that in any fiction or game other than EQ and it always seemed weird to me there.

    I'm not suggesting bards in Pantheon shouldn't be 'tough' in some way, but the idea of bards wearing platemail seems (and always seemed) very off and weird.  I wouldn't want bards in Pantheon to be like EQ.  Sorry!

    Maybe chainmail.  Probably leather.  Silk sure.  Plate?  Nah, not really.  It is just a subjective opinion though.

    • 367 posts
    November 16, 2019 7:37 AM PST

    Alyonyah said:

    I was and had always been considered the best bard on my respective server. This is obviously a matter of peoples opinion but it was an opinion held by the majority of the server.... and they were all very impressed with bard mark tanking non CCable mobs for short term CC, especially in raid format when it counted (all the "good" bards do this now). Maybe your doing something wrong trying to pigeon hole this class into a silk pure caster? Your bard is not the jack of all trades, its an enchanter. I hope they dont follow your "vision" as I truly would like to play a jack of all trades master of none class again. Like I said I dont have to have plate, but bards do need to have options and if plate is one of those - so be it.

    Then what you want doesn't fit in the Control/Support archetype. You want something that's a generalist in a range of areas but never good in any of them. I honestly don't see that happening. And no, I don't want them in silk, I want them in Leather and focusing on their instruments instead of having to swap out melee weapons and instruments every few seconds. That concept makes no sense. Bards throughout lore in other games and through fantasy fiction, they aren't heavily armored upfront, weapon wielding semi-tanks. They just aren't. In EQ, they were unique. However, the concept was flawed in many extents but it was considered an outlier. I would like to see the class move more towards instrumentation, support and manipulation as they have to run parallel with the Enchanter but flavored differently for there to be an option in the control/support archetype.

    The classes are within their archetypes for a reason. You have specializations of a group role.


    This post was edited by Janus at November 16, 2019 7:41 AM PST
    • 183 posts
    November 16, 2019 3:08 PM PST

    Thing is its not off tanking.... Its just chin checking so to speak.. much like the rangers always did with weapon shield.... Thats all, but for some reason this goes ignored in the conversation. Its CC its less than 18 seconds its very situational and enchanters always have/had the ability, even in classic (they had the control bards did not).... That IS control/support I said multiple times bards wouldnt require plate, but if they dont get plate they need runes or some such like a chanter and or stuns etc like a chanter.... IF and only if they are being pigeon holed into a pure chanter like your asking for.......;

     

    Truth is the eq bard WAS an outlier indeed, but bar none it was the best damned class ever and a souped up version of that (fresh and new) is just what the doctor ordered in MY opinion. I hope VR combines the elements of EQ and VG bards with new elements that focus on instrumentation as well, maybe even really use music theory like monks use chakras..... Heres to an awesome bard! - whatever they make Im sure it will be.

     

     p.s. I am going to destroy this myth that you cant play with gaunts on, then post it here - and Im just a mere mortal on the earth plane. You guys really should think bigger.

    • 1653 posts
    November 17, 2019 7:57 AM PST

    Janus said:

    MauvaisOeil said:

    Why not control / Offtank, that would be neat and plate wearing :).

    Because the role of control is far more wide ranging than simply offtanking. Offtanking means that healer is losing a ton on mana use having to heal the tank, other group members and now the offtank who's taking damage as well and in effect, that greatly limits group efficiency. Offtanking is an absolutely terrible form of CC for that and many other reasons. It also limits you to CCing 1-2 mobs at max where as a class in the actual Control archetype, you can manage upwards of 5-10 mobs. Your armor is not designed to tank that many mobs and in effect, you use your skills and your instruments. If you're tanking as a Control archetype, you are in effect doing something VERY wrong, and because of that, the idea of plate is fairly pointless, not just in the concept for the class as something that needs dexterity, agility and fluidity of motion. For that reason, cloth or at the maximum, leather is a must for the class by design.

     

    I don't think you really understood me. I never said "Control by offtanking", but both. To some extend there will be mobs that cannot be CCEd and having someone able to build aggro on them withouth beeing all sturdy built can be usefull. In EQ it was easily doable as a bard thought the mezz song that generated shitload of aggro even if not working at all.

    The EQ bard was, to it's essence, the jack of all trade and master of none. But because he was so flexible it wasn't a dead weight at all, and he was good in quite a lot of domains anyway.

    • 183 posts
    November 17, 2019 11:12 AM PST

    generated aggro <> memblurred

    • 183 posts
    November 27, 2019 6:31 AM PST

    I propose bards have access to all armor types as they did in EQ, with each type of armor having its boons and caveats. 

     

    (Silk bard) = max song power/max stealth/max speed/min melee dps/min defense - caster group bard format

     

    (Chain/Leather bard) = med song strength/med stealth/med speed/max melee dps/med defense - melee group bard format (perhaps variance for different melee/caster/tank non raid groups)

     

    (Plate bard) = Min song power/min stealth/min speed/med melee dps/max defense - Tank group bard format.

     

    Folks are openly discussing something simular for clerics (plate and woven raiment) which is clearly a non tank class. Little to no push back in their case, naturally. IMO bard should be the class with the most choices to make in any given scenario. The above scenario (or some variation) seems to be the optimal situation for pantheon bards.

     

    Malkiyah~


    This post was edited by Alyonyah at November 29, 2019 6:25 AM PST