Keno Monster said:stellarmind said:oneADseven said:My point is that stereotyping is very far from "natural" or "fundamental" law. People can "think" about stereotypes all they want but there is no imaginary control mechanism being operated from above that wills them into truthful existence. Imagine if the stereotypes we see here on Earth were actually bound by law. This race can only do that. That race can only do this. That race can do everything! Imagine that actually being true, and not being able to question it. There is nothing wrong with citizens of Terminus thinking "Ogres don't really have a lot of intelligence so they probably make awful casters." That would be a stereotype, and one that would be disproven by vigilant gamers who purposely play an Ogre Wizard and excel at doing it despite the odds being stacked against them.
by your logic, you are basically saying cows can hunt even though they are efficient for grazing?
That is just an awful, awful analogy. For shame.
okay i'll use a dog for example. there's hunting dogs, there's house dogs, even guide dogs, but this logic there should be accountant dogs.
stellarmind said:Keno Monster said:stellarmind said:oneADseven said:My point is that stereotyping is very far from "natural" or "fundamental" law. People can "think" about stereotypes all they want but there is no imaginary control mechanism being operated from above that wills them into truthful existence. Imagine if the stereotypes we see here on Earth were actually bound by law. This race can only do that. That race can only do this. That race can do everything! Imagine that actually being true, and not being able to question it. There is nothing wrong with citizens of Terminus thinking "Ogres don't really have a lot of intelligence so they probably make awful casters." That would be a stereotype, and one that would be disproven by vigilant gamers who purposely play an Ogre Wizard and excel at doing it despite the odds being stacked against them.
by your logic, you are basically saying cows can hunt even though they are efficient for grazing?
That is just an awful, awful analogy. For shame.
okay i'll use a dog for example. there's hunting dogs, there's house dogs, even guide dogs, but this logic there should be accountant dogs.
It's more than mildly ironic that you use the word "logic" and then fail to employ any. Come on man, your argument that ogres can't be spellcasters is because dogs can't be accountants? smh
BTW, Ogres have been mages in games for DECADES.
Keno Monster said:stellarmind said:Keno Monster said:stellarmind said:oneADseven said:My point is that stereotyping is very far from "natural" or "fundamental" law. People can "think" about stereotypes all they want but there is no imaginary control mechanism being operated from above that wills them into truthful existence. Imagine if the stereotypes we see here on Earth were actually bound by law. This race can only do that. That race can only do this. That race can do everything! Imagine that actually being true, and not being able to question it. There is nothing wrong with citizens of Terminus thinking "Ogres don't really have a lot of intelligence so they probably make awful casters." That would be a stereotype, and one that would be disproven by vigilant gamers who purposely play an Ogre Wizard and excel at doing it despite the odds being stacked against them.
by your logic, you are basically saying cows can hunt even though they are efficient for grazing?
That is just an awful, awful analogy. For shame.
okay i'll use a dog for example. there's hunting dogs, there's house dogs, even guide dogs, but this logic there should be accountant dogs.
It's more than mildly ironic that you use the word "logic" and then fail to employ any. Come on man, your argument that ogres can't be spellcasters is because dogs can't be accountants? smh
BTW, Ogres have been mages in games for DECADES.
to clarify i'm using the logic 187 is providing. i actually think ogres should be wizards. it's very common high fantasy knowlege that ogres are attuned to primordial forces, earth wind fire water etc.
stellarmind said:yes yes. this is it. our individual predefinition is slightly altering our race/class distinctions. we'd have to agree on a definition, however, some classes have already be defined by vr. in the case of paladins they only exists because they were once clerics gone full ghostbusters mode.
This is why I can't quite agree with people arguing against Dark Myr paladins. It seems off to me that Dark Myr clerics wouldn't hate the undead as much as any other clerics do, and that some of them wouldn't go full ghostbusters mode as well. *shrug*
oneADseven said:My point is that stereotyping is very far from "natural" or "fundamental" law. People can "think" about stereotypes all they want but there is no imaginary control mechanism being operated from above that wills them into truthful existence. Imagine if the stereotypes we see here on Earth were actually bound by law. This race can only do that. That race can only do this. That race can do everything! Imagine that actually being true, and not being able to question it. There is nothing wrong with citizens of Terminus thinking "Ogres don't really have a lot of intelligence so they probably make awful casters." That would be a stereotype, and one that would be disproven by vigilant gamers who purposely play an Ogre Wizard and excel at doing it despite the odds being stacked against them.
Yes and no. I love reading your posts, they're always very thoughtful and informative. I do disagree with you here, though. Stereotypes exist for a reason. There are enough of [insert whatever here] that have acted, looked, behaved, conquered, etc. etc. a certain way to be stereotyped in the first place. To say it isn't natural..well, it is. By definition, natural would mean 'as occurring in nature,' no? So, using that, a rabbit will always run and hide when it notices an owl or hawk with a hungry look in its eyes. They instinctively know to avoid the birds of prey (or snakes, wolves, cats). It's basically 'anything with that look in their eyes wants to eat me, gotta run!'
It's the same with people groups. If I were part of a group that was uprooted from my world and plopped down in the middle of another, survival and preservation would be much more important than branching out in creative ways as far as my role or vocation (class). Eventually, sure, I could see other classes opening up to the different races. For the immediate, however, it makes perfect sense to me that these groups would stick with what they know just for the sake of survival. With humans, yes, they (and we) tend to adapt quickly, look for better ways, easier ways, more lucrative ways, but only one of the races in Terminus is human. Perhaps in the future or through progeny different combinations will be available, but for now, it makes sense that a bunch of mostly mistrustful groups would stick to their own, as it were.
Nephele said:stellarmind said:yes yes. this is it. our individual predefinition is slightly altering our race/class distinctions. we'd have to agree on a definition, however, some classes have already be defined by vr. in the case of paladins they only exists because they were once clerics gone full ghostbusters mode.
This is why I can't quite agree with people arguing against Dark Myr paladins. It seems off to me that Dark Myr clerics wouldn't hate the undead as much as any other clerics do, and that some of them wouldn't go full ghostbusters mode as well. *shrug*
right? it's fun to discuss and pass the time though. you'd have to justify why dark myr are okay with clerics and haven't gone extreme ghostbuster mode. i guess if you put it into perspective, clerics are needed to heal the injured from fighting leviathans, but aren't going to go ghostbuster mode because leviathans aren't going to be raising the dead.
Nephele said:stellarmind said:yes yes. this is it. our individual predefinition is slightly altering our race/class distinctions. we'd have to agree on a definition, however, some classes have already be defined by vr. in the case of paladins they only exists because they were once clerics gone full ghostbusters mode.
This is why I can't quite agree with people arguing against Dark Myr paladins. It seems off to me that Dark Myr clerics wouldn't hate the undead as much as any other clerics do, and that some of them wouldn't go full ghostbusters mode as well. *shrug*
again, the dark myr have no knowledge of the undead..like the RL metaphor I made earlier, there was a time monks, samurais, etc were only found in one region of the world (same as paladins here). No myr has even set foot in the eastern continent where the undead and every single known human and dwarf of the paladin order are located. no one can even reach or contact the myr, so they didn't even bother going to them for help in any of the wars. you can't hate what you've never known, and then somehow specialize in killing that unknown species as well. you can be a myr and fight for vengeance, but it doesn't make you a paladin because it has nothing to do with the undead. When/if the lore changes and the myr come out of their holes to play (aka when the game launches) and travel to or learn about undead and the paladin order, thus learn how to specialize in killing them, then that could change (like VR has stated).
Darch said:I think a lot of the race/class matrix issues would be alleviated if Humans weren't allowed to be EVERY class. Somewhere in the back of my MMO subconcious it just rubs me wrong to use lore to justify that haha. So many restrictions on all of these other races that come from other worlds, but "hey, this species that has only been around for 5-6 generations (and needed help from the elves just to survive) was able to learn all of these other jobs from other worlds" (or it is just a crazy coincdence that these jobs were identical on other worlds) because they're "so resilient".
The human class access is the only real thing that nags me. With that said the lore actually does support it more than any other race though. The difference is allthough humans came in the second age, they were the main/only people alongside Khaz that went around the entire world(each continent) trying to rally people for the war, a la lord of the rings. The myr were unreachable and had no desire to leave, and ogres inapproachable, and also had conquered/lost what they needed, so they didn't travel either nor did the humans/khaz bother going to them for help in the war. the humans are the only race I know of that has actually traveled both continents between the war and narian's quest with khaz when they ascended to learn about the dragon who had been exiled and the sort of accord/pact going on,So humans have effectively been the only race to not only traverse the world but also catalogue all findings and learnings (via the keeper), so it makes sense that they would have knowledge of each class, but still just doesn't feel right.
Come to think of it the humans and I guess dwarves and one archai are the only ones that even know what is going on/saw the dragon get full nelson'd by that unknown "emissary" guy that came from the clouds, so I guess humans are going to be the weak sheep that help herd other races together (they always have weakeneded starting stats/growth/racials, so the all classes may also be an incentive to attempt to balance race selection). Im with you thought it still doesn't sit right
PS i recommend reading the "keepings" in the lore section those were the best read by far the most book like exciting read and shed a lot of light into the current affairs of things in the fragile age. They wrote that dragon out so perfectly. All of it was very well written actually. Better than most of lord of the rings and all of sams complaining throughought the books haha
oneADseven said:We can try to argue "interpretation" back and forth but Wikipedia usually spells things out pretty clearly. You're absolutely right that it's up to VR to figure things out and I'm not saying that they are right or wrong. I have pointed out that using lore to rationalize race/class restrictions doesn't make sense unless we agree in principle that "using lore to restrict X" is done completely arbitrarily and without consistency. I have pointed out what the "main appeal" to open-world gaming is, and why this style of game is especially attractive to roleplayers who enjoy being part of the creative process of storytelling and character development. VR can do whatever they please but that doesn't make it right or mean that I have to agree with it. You'll find me at the center of many debates that challenge the social norms or cultural expectations linked to EQ.
Your right you are going against the norm at times and I've noticed the thing is in a lot of mmos they are doing what you're saying and we are trying to get away from those mmos, we want pantheon to succeed where other failed, not make the same mistakes just for the sake of diversity. Believe me there is literally a laundry list of games that do an all/all atmosphere why would we want that in pantheon if we can get that anywhere else
Nephele said:stellarmind said:yes yes. this is it. our individual predefinition is slightly altering our race/class distinctions. we'd have to agree on a definition, however, some classes have already be defined by vr. in the case of paladins they only exists because they were once clerics gone full ghostbusters mode.
This is why I can't quite agree with people arguing against Dark Myr paladins. It seems off to me that Dark Myr clerics wouldn't hate the undead as much as any other clerics do, and that some of them wouldn't go full ghostbusters mode as well. *shrug*
It's been explained to you by two people now. It's not even about the undead. All the Dark Myr care about is restoring the glory of the Dark Myr. They're not heavily invested in retribution and seeking revenge. They have like one racial enemy and it's not another race.. they don't even know what it is (spoiler it's a dragon). They're not crusaders they are conquerers.
Riahuf22 said:Your right you are going against the norm at times and I've noticed the thing is in a lot of mmos they are doing what you're saying and we are trying to get away from those mmos, we want pantheon to succeed where other failed, not make the same mistakes just for the sake of diversity. Believe me there is literally a laundry list of games that do an all/all atmosphere why would we want that in pantheon if we can get that anywhere else
You say this but what happens all the time is people assume that I'm talking about WoW or FFXIV. There is a difference between concept and implementation. People see a "trigger word" and then assume the absolute worst-case scenario version or whatever they associate with that word. I despised WoW, FFXIV, and every other "modern MMO" but people always try to connect my posts with those two games. It's like someone bringing up "race/class restrictions" and me instantly accusing them of trying to turn the game into Warhammer Online.
oneADseven said:You say this but what happens all the time is people assume that I'm talking about WoW or FFXIV. There is a difference between concept and implementation. People see a "trigger word" and then assume the absolute worst-case scenario version or whatever they associate with that word. I despised WoW, FFXIV, and every other "modern MMO" but people always try to connect my posts with those two games.
The thing is, we've learned a lot about MMOs from those games. I guess you haven't had the opportunity. Sometimes we take it for granted that not everyone has had the experience. At this point though , what are you arguing for? Is it that you want to play whatever combo you want? Can you sum it up? I am asking sincerely because I'd like to get back on track.
Riahuf22 said:
Believe me there is literally a laundry list of games that do an all/all atmosphere why would we want that in pantheon if we can get that anywhere else
Because it might be better? Doing "all/all" doesn't change the tenets of the game or impact its core values. We aren't talking about adding realm v realm pvp, or massive instancing, or anything like that that you can find in other games, like you say. When people come to these boards and rant and say the game is going to fail because open world contested content won't work, we tell them to go play one of the dozen other MMOs on the market that all do it the same way. That's a fundamental difference. EQ wasn't a magical game because it had race/class restrictions, it was a magical game because it was an open virtual world(and many other *fundamental* reasons). It's a really shallow argument.
Tigersin said:The thing is, we've learned a lot about MMOs from those games. I guess you haven't had the opportunity. Sometimes we take it for granted that not everyone has had the experience. At this point though , what are you arguing for? Is it that you want to play whatever combo you want? Can you sum it up? I am asking sincerely because I'd like to get back on track.
I have learned plenty from playing both of those games and many others. The MMO genre has been a sad state of affairs for quite a while now. I have been pretty consistent in my stance since the beginning of this thread. If you want to sum it up go ahead and look at the Matrix Meme I shared. The irony of a matrix meme was not lost upon me and so it definitely felt appropriate. A fair compromise, in my opinion, would be some sort of in-game system where it's possible for players to deviate from the prescribed race/class matrix. Whether that's through progeny or any other number of features / quests, players should be able to make a character their own, as per the spirit of roleplaying in an open-world game.
For the record, I plan on playing an Ogre Warrior. I have no personal bias in this discussion because my race/class preference is not available. I am just a staunch believer in the idea of building a world rather than a game, one that players can call a virtual home. I understand that restrictions are important for many things but creating a character identity shouldn't be one of them. If someone wants to live vicariously as an ogre bard in their virtual home, they should be able to. If you want your players to be 100% bought into their characters and have a sense of unrelinquishable loyalty and commitment, it's important that they can make it their own. If someone has to settle for their second, third, fourth, or fifth option ... that realization will likely stick with them for as long as they play the game.
oneADseven said:Tigersin said:The thing is, we've learned a lot about MMOs from those games. I guess you haven't had the opportunity. Sometimes we take it for granted that not everyone has had the experience. At this point though , what are you arguing for? Is it that you want to play whatever combo you want? Can you sum it up? I am asking sincerely because I'd like to get back on track.
I have learned plenty from playing both of those games and many others. The MMO genre has been a sad state of affairs for quite a while now. I have been pretty consistent in my stance since the beginning of this thread. If you want to sum it up go ahead and look at the Matrix Meme I shared. The irony of a matrix meme was not lost upon me and so it definitely felt appropriate. A fair compromise, in my opinion, would be some sort of in-game system where it's possible for players to deviate from the prescribed race/class matrix. Whether that's through progeny or any other number of features / quests, players should be able to make a character their own, as per the spirit of roleplaying in an open-world game.
For the record, I plan on playing an Ogre Warrior. I have no personal bias in this discussion because my race/class preference is not available. I am just a staunch believer in the idea of building a world rather than a game, one that players can call a virtual home. I understand that restrictions are important for many things but creating a character identity shouldn't be one of them. If someone wants to live vicariously as an ogre bard in their virtual home, they should be able to. If you want your players to be 100% bought into their characters and have a sense of unrelinquishable loyalty and commitment, it's important that they can make it their own. If someone has to settle for their second, third, fourth, or fifth option ... that realization will likely stick with them for as long as they play the game.
Honestly I don't see this having a true right versus wrong side. We both have arguments (and be we, I mean, every person engaged on this thread), we both can justify our preferences with either lore, philosophy or just personal preferences.
The point is : Some people like to create their own rules, and follow their own logic withouth beeing hindered : That's the "no matrix" group.
Others like rules, either to ease the choices, or to play around them : That's the "matrix" group.
We both are right because our views both works withouth hurting anybody, but are not compatible with each other, and no compromise would fit both sides. I don't see how this discussion could be pushed any further, for theses exact reasons.
@mauv
yep. all about interpretation and preference.
Look I dot see why see need all/all that is literally just bad and I keep saying why and no one, not a single person has ever quoted it because they know I am right, if you do a all/all scenario on a PVE server you literally get most players to min/max the crap out of the game and get the best passive/active for your playstyle and than all those other all/all races you have for the class that you choose is fodder for all you care, like seriously think about it, with the stats seem right you could literally have most melee focus classes being ogre or archnai, and casters being probably either gnomes or dark myr which they actually pretty much cover all of them anyway, but with the restrictions to u bring different possibilities of what you want to play and who you want them to be instead of simply chasing the meta, like maybe a ogre druid because your friend picked dark myr and you wanting to do the evil theme knowing maybe halfling are better at druid, (maybe I have no idea). These restrictions case these choices to happen but if you let people min/max you race class combinations they will it's simply that simple and won't even care about the lore or what the race stands for because it was the best race for the class.
You realize that the "meta" becomes more obvious and defined when you remove variables from the equation, right? The more options that are available, the more situational viability each one will have. As it stands, players will have two options when it comes to deciding which race is "optimal" for paladin. They view the benefits of dwarves/humans and then make a decision. By adding more situational variables, there is a higher likelihood of seeing scenarios where certain combinations could excel under different conditions. I think it's hilarious that you're so worried about min/maxing when EQ was notorious for having the very issue that you are going on about here. A quick google search shows people breaking down the "meta" for min/maxing in EQ on the various progression servers. From what I can see, EQ basically boils down to prioritizing stun immunity, hide, and innate regen, depending on the role. For some classes, it doesn't really matter. That sounds neither interesting or balanced but please go on and tell me how right you are. If players were only willing to play dwarven paladins because ogre wasn't an option then that's a separate balancing issue. Using that issue as a support mechanism for your argument implies that we must first inherit the (broken) system that causes people to play dwarven paladins only because ogre isn't an available option. If we're operating from that context, your concerns make more sense!
Percipiens said:If I were part of a group that was uprooted from my world and plopped down in the middle of another, survival and preservation would be much more important than branching out in creative ways as far as my role or vocation (class). Eventually, sure, I could see other classes opening up to the different races. For the immediate, however, it makes perfect sense to me that these groups would stick with what they know just for the sake of survival. With humans, yes, they (and we) tend to adapt quickly, look for better ways, easier ways, more lucrative ways, but only one of the races in Terminus is human. Perhaps in the future or through progeny different combinations will be available, but for now, it makes sense that a bunch of mostly mistrustful groups would stick to their own, as it were.
The "immediate" began 975 years ago for Ogres. More than 500 of those years saw them sharing the planet with Humans. Even the most recent addition (Gnomes) have been there for 315 years. Here is a consolidated timeline of when each race landed on Terminus:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5306/a-consolidated-timeline-of-terminus
I appreciate the sentiment of your post but if races were eventually going to branch out as you put it, wouldn't it have happened by now? Your post seems to imply that all of the races had only recently arrived.
Zuljan said:t book like exciting read and shed a lot of light into the current affairs of things in the fragile age. They wrote that dragon out so perfectly. All of it was very well written actually. Better than most of lord of the rings and all of sams complaining throughought the books haha
This should be grounds for a permaban...
oneADseven said:I have learned plenty from playing both of those games and many others. The MMO genre has been a sad state of affairs for quite a while now. I have been pretty consistent in my stance since the beginning of this thread. If you want to sum it up go ahead and look at the Matrix Meme I shared. The irony of a matrix meme was not lost upon me and so it definitely felt appropriate. A fair compromise, in my opinion, would be some sort of in-game system where it's possible for players to deviate from the prescribed race/class matrix. Whether that's through progeny or any other number of features / quests, players should be able to make a character their own, as per the spirit of roleplaying in an open-world game.
For the record, I plan on playing an Ogre Warrior. I have no personal bias in this discussion because my race/class preference is not available. I am just a staunch believer in the idea of building a world rather than a game, one that players can call a virtual home. I understand that restrictions are important for many things but creating a character identity shouldn't be one of them. If someone wants to live vicariously as an ogre bard in their virtual home, they should be able to. If you want your players to be 100% bought into their characters and have a sense of unrelinquishable loyalty and commitment, it's important that they can make it their own. If someone has to settle for their second, third, fourth, or fifth option ... that realization will likely stick with them for as long as they play the game.
Well I don't know how many mmos you've made but I have made none and I don't have players. Here's my last attempt (yes, really). I don't go to my grocery store and feel like my favorite cereal is actually my 2nd favorite because I would like it if a non-existant flavor was available. I just buy the one I like the best. If I don't want cereal, I don't buy it.
Zuljan said:Nephele said:stellarmind said:yes yes. this is it. our individual predefinition is slightly altering our race/class distinctions. we'd have to agree on a definition, however, some classes have already be defined by vr. in the case of paladins they only exists because they were once clerics gone full ghostbusters mode.
This is why I can't quite agree with people arguing against Dark Myr paladins. It seems off to me that Dark Myr clerics wouldn't hate the undead as much as any other clerics do, and that some of them wouldn't go full ghostbusters mode as well. *shrug*
again, the dark myr have no knowledge of the undead..like the RL metaphor I made earlier, there was a time monks, samurais, etc were only found in one region of the world (same as paladins here). No myr has even set foot in the eastern continent where the undead and every single known human and dwarf of the paladin order are located. no one can even reach or contact the myr, so they didn't even bother going to them for help in any of the wars. you can't hate what you've never known, and then somehow specialize in killing that unknown species as well. you can be a myr and fight for vengeance, but it doesn't make you a paladin because it has nothing to do with the undead. When/if the lore changes and the myr come out of their holes to play (aka when the game launches) and travel to or learn about undead and the paladin order, thus learn how to specialize in killing them, then that could change (like VR has stated).
Is this really true though? The Dark Myr fought in the Deicide War (all the races present at the time did). They've been on Terminus for long enough to build a city (at least partially on land). Can we truly say they have no knowledge of the undead, or that there are no undead on Reignfall?
Plus, we should also keep in mind that there could have been undocumented planar collisions that predated the arrival of the Six. There possibly were fallen civilizations, or remnants of them, present on Terminus when all of the playable races alive. The Six may not have been the first.
So I'm not sure I agree on your take on the lore here. I think you're making an assumption based on the origin/arrival story of the Dark Myr, but you're not taking into account what may have happened between then and now.
Nephele said:Is this really true though? The Dark Myr fought in the Deicide War (all the races did). They've been on Terminus for long enough to build a city (at least partially on land). Can we truly say they have no knowledge of the undead, or that there are no undead on Reignfall?
Plus, we should also keep in mind that there were planar collisions that predated the arrival of the Six. There were fallen civilizations, or remnants of them, present on Terminus when all of the playable races alive. The Six were not the first.
So I'm not sure I agree on your take on the lore here. I think you're making an assumption based on the origin/arrival story of the Dark Myr, but you're not taking into account what may have happened between then and now.
Neph is right about the Deicide War and the time they've spent on Terminus. I just want to add that the six is more than six.
oneADseven said:You realize that the "meta" becomes more obvious and defined when you remove variables from the equation, right? The more options that are available, the more situational viability each one will have. As it stands, players will have two options when it comes to deciding which race is "optimal" for paladin. They view the benefits of dwarves/humans and then make a decision. By adding more situational variables, there is a higher likelihood of seeing scenarios where certain combinations could excel under different conditions. I think it's hilarious that you're so worried about min/maxing when EQ was notorious for having the very issue that you are going on about here. A quick google search shows people breaking down the "meta" for min/maxing in EQ on the various progression servers. From what I can see, EQ basically boils down to prioritizing stun immunity, hide, and innate regen, depending on the role. For some classes, it doesn't really matter. That sounds neither interesting or balanced but please go on and tell me how right you are. If players were only willing to play dwarven paladins because ogre wasn't an option then that's a separate balancing issue. Using that issue as a support mechanism for your argument implies that we must first inherit the (broken) system that causes people to play dwarven paladins only because ogre isn't an available option. If we're operating from that context, your concerns make more sense!
You realize when eq first came out ogre and trolls (the best tanks at the time) were actually the least played races when eq first came out, it only became what your saying once the content was completely figured out and everything else that comes with the game being 20 years old, but it defiantly wasn't that way at the beginning, so huh I guess I debunked that theory of your didn't i?
Tigersin said:Nephele said:Is this really true though? The Dark Myr fought in the Deicide War (all the races did). They've been on Terminus for long enough to build a city (at least partially on land). Can we truly say they have no knowledge of the undead, or that there are no undead on Reignfall?
Plus, we should also keep in mind that there were planar collisions that predated the arrival of the Six. There were fallen civilizations, or remnants of them, present on Terminus when all of the playable races alive. The Six were not the first.
So I'm not sure I agree on your take on the lore here. I think you're making an assumption based on the origin/arrival story of the Dark Myr, but you're not taking into account what may have happened between then and now.
Neph is right about the Deicide War and the time they've spent on Terminus. I just want to add that the six is more than six.
Just for clarity, I corrected my post slightly after you quoted this. Some races actually arrived after the Deicide War. The Dark Myr were definitely there though.
I just think we need to be careful about assuming that the entire history of Terminus, before, during, and after the first age of collisions, has been revealed to us.