Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Another day, another no Alpha

    • 31 posts
    June 15, 2019 4:39 AM PDT

    I spent a considerable amount of time searching for some MMO to play, having tried so many since I quit EQ about a year ago. Anyone else traversing the bowels of internet games looking for any decent mmo to play?

    I've tried almost every new one that comes out, but there has been such a void of good MMOs for so long now. Although, I really enjoyed black desert until that went basically full pay to win. That game really had something as far as crafting/mechanics went.

    I know we all want Pantheon to be really great, but hoping that Alpha comes soon, seems like the market has been just sitting on this hole in the MMO genre for some time. Games like Lost Ark coming to the United States will likely make a big impact also. To be honest, I've never heard of another game incrementally increasing Pre-Alpha stages, and considering we are on the 3rd version of that are we prone to going to Pre-Alpha 4 or 5? Sounds a little disasterous.

    • 245 posts
    June 15, 2019 5:07 AM PDT

    Think about how the MMO community at large feels, this feeing is felt across many forums and message boards. Some people are playing what they call the big 4 now with WoW, FFXIV, GW2 or ESO but even there people are only playing it ‘because’.

    WoW classic has helped to invigorate old timers and also young blood to realise what an old school MMO was really like. But consider how many MMOs the communities have tried in the last few years, how desperate people are that they try anything and everything. Look at the failed launches of things like Bless Online, a game that had already failed in another region years ago but relaunched and predictably failed again yet people still paid and tried it because they are so desperate for something new.

    The Pantheon developers know this too, they are keenly aware of how desperate people are but also how fickle the MMO crowd can be. In addition to this, Pantheon is crowd funded and crowd funding is currently a very grey area for MMOs with several of them in development but people questioning what is going on, because it’s still such an early concept, and projects like Pantheon, AoC, CU and Star Citizen especially remain questionable to the masses, especially the clickbaiting games media.

    Many people are watching Pantheon or will be aware and come try it when something is out, for many that could be Alpha and if Alpha is successful then for the masses it will be Beta.

    However, that relies very strictly upon a successful Alpha testing period, because so many more will be involved, Alpha won’t actually be like an internal closed Alpha, there will be so much chatter and exposure.

    Alpha for Pantheon is more like a demo, and VR recognises this. Which is why they’ve taken a decision to make Project Faerthale into a fully fleshed out Pantheon release for a total zone with all systems running.

    Because that will serve as both an excellent design principle to speed along the development afterwards and also serve as a key marketing tool to show the masses what Pantheon is actually meant to be.

    Patience is what we need, let them do a good job.

    • They are making the right decision with Project Faerthale in more ways than one and it will pay off in the long term.

    This post was edited by Ezrael at June 15, 2019 5:15 AM PDT
    • 500 posts
    June 15, 2019 7:11 AM PDT

    Ezrael said:

    Think about how the MMO community at large feels, this feeing is felt across many forums and message boards. Some people are playing what they call the big 4 now with WoW, FFXIV, GW2 or ESO but even there people are only playing it ‘because’.

    WoW classic has helped to invigorate old timers and also young blood to realise what an old school MMO was really like. But consider how many MMOs the communities have tried in the last few years, how desperate people are that they try anything and everything. Look at the failed launches of things like Bless Online, a game that had already failed in another region years ago but relaunched and predictably failed again yet people still paid and tried it because they are so desperate for something new.

    The Pantheon developers know this too, they are keenly aware of how desperate people are but also how fickle the MMO crowd can be. In addition to this, Pantheon is crowd funded and crowd funding is currently a very grey area for MMOs with several of them in development but people questioning what is going on, because it’s still such an early concept, and projects like Pantheon, AoC, CU and Star Citizen especially remain questionable to the masses, especially the clickbaiting games media.

    Many people are watching Pantheon or will be aware and come try it when something is out, for many that could be Alpha and if Alpha is successful then for the masses it will be Beta.

    However, that relies very strictly upon a successful Alpha testing period, because so many more will be involved, Alpha won’t actually be like an internal closed Alpha, there will be so much chatter and exposure.

    Alpha for Pantheon is more like a demo, and VR recognises this. Which is why they’ve taken a decision to make Project Faerthale into a fully fleshed out Pantheon release for a total zone with all systems running.

    Because that will serve as both an excellent design principle to speed along the development afterwards and also serve as a key marketing tool to show the masses what Pantheon is actually meant to be.

    Patience is what we need, let them do a good job.

    • They are making the right decision with Project Faerthale in more ways than one and it will pay off in the long term.

    ^ Well said.

    • 31 posts
    June 15, 2019 7:17 AM PDT

    Totally agree. However, I'm sure there are other companies out there who notice this hole in the market. It's a bit foreboding how overdue we are for another hit MMO.

    • 3852 posts
    June 15, 2019 7:19 AM PDT

    I feel much the same impatience - things have been going more slowly than I hoped.

    But I also agree with Ezrael.

    Granted that a closed alpha is not exactly the same thing as release of a game and "oh that alpha is really crappy" is not really the kiss of death - alphas are *supposed* to be crappy that is why they are called alphas. 

    But my own guess is that VR needs/wants one more significant chunk of funding to get them to release and they are relying heavily on a really polished alpha to impress the companies that make a business out of funding efforts like this. Buzz in the community may be a secondary consideration, of course.

    • 313 posts
    June 15, 2019 9:37 AM PDT

    benty said:

    I spent a considerable amount of time searching for some MMO to play, having tried so many since I quit EQ about a year ago. Anyone else traversing the bowels of internet games looking for any decent mmo to play?

    I've tried almost every new one that comes out, but there has been such a void of good MMOs for so long now. Although, I really enjoyed black desert until that went basically full pay to win. That game really had something as far as crafting/mechanics went.

    I know we all want Pantheon to be really great, but hoping that Alpha comes soon, seems like the market has been just sitting on this hole in the MMO genre for some time. Games like Lost Ark coming to the United States will likely make a big impact also. To be honest, I've never heard of another game incrementally increasing Pre-Alpha stages, and considering we are on the 3rd version of that are we prone to going to Pre-Alpha 4 or 5? Sounds a little disasterous.

     

    This is a really bad take.  What does it matter if the pre-alpha is organized into stages?  Most games show very little from the pre-alpha stages, so you wouldn't know whether or not they have phases/stages.  

    Look, we're all anxious for alpha to come, but VR has been pretty transparent about what they're up to.  They're working hard on Project Faerthale.  Once that's done, they'll have a couple more phases of PA.  They've also mentioned that those phases will likely be on an accelerated schedule compared to previous phases.  It's probably not reasonable to expect alpha until the end of the year at the earliest.  

    Make no mistake though, project faerthale is a HUGE milestone for the game.  It will be a completed zone with all of the major game systems (climbing, dispositions, acclimations, environmental weather systems, etc) implemented.  There will also be updated player character models, some updated NPC models, new animations and spell effects.  

     

    If they wanted, they could probably start the alpha next month, but they can't just snap their fingers and make the game done.   If they started alpha now, it wouldn't make the game any better.   What do you want, the game to be great or do you just want somethign to play now?  Everyone needs to just chill out.   Find something else to play, and come back in 6 months to a year.  If we get a look at project faerthale completed and it doesnt' blow us away, then that might be the time to show some concern (panic).  

    P.S. Here's a summary of the released info over the past 6 months https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/c0l6yr/psa_pantheon_is_making_good_progress_a_summary_of/

    • 2756 posts
    June 15, 2019 3:14 PM PDT

    How long before WoW was in alpha?

    Clue: It was a LONG time.

    We are able to join in at pre-alpha stages otherwise we'd never know about it.

    I guess if Blizzard had been so open with their early stages some people would have been the same with them.


    This post was edited by disposalist at June 15, 2019 3:56 PM PDT
    • 145 posts
    June 15, 2019 3:54 PM PDT

    all good things come to those who wait

    • 388 posts
    June 15, 2019 8:26 PM PDT

    Everyone is waiting but Pantheon won't release to public (full release) for at least another 2 years.

    I would rather wait and have a great game, than have a rushed piece. 

    VR/Pantheon also knows the gamers are the biggest bunch a haters and cry-babies in the world, so they plan to release alpha after they have a Really Good product to test. 

    Look at games like AoC. That game will flop within a year of release.  WoW class will also be a flop. After 90 days, classic servers will be ghost towns. 

    MMO players should use the next 2 years exploring Earth and getting off the computer for a while. 

    I have GW2, EQ, SWTOR, Hearthstone, Dioblo III, WoW, and ESO all on my hard drive right now.  I haven't played ANY of them for Weeks. I am bored to death of all of them. But that doesn't make Pantheon get here any sooner. 

     

     


    This post was edited by Flapp at June 15, 2019 8:48 PM PDT
    • 189 posts
    June 16, 2019 7:23 AM PDT

    They also have much bigger expectations BECAUSE of exactly what you said Bently. Because there's a hole... and people don't know how to fill it. There's your Classic WoW, the hand holding WoW, FF XIV, SWTOR, BDO, etc. There are even private servers OF those games.

    Game developers out there focus more on the "WOW" factor with graphics and forget that people enjoy the immersion of a game as well as the amazing lore that comes with it. Which is why some people are going back to the classics... it touches on all of those but in THEIR OWN WAY.

    We need another one of 'these', but fresh and new -- New lore, new concept, new experience. Pantheon isn't focused on filling that entire hole because the hole isn't there just because there isn't ONE amazing MMO out there.. Many genres in the gaming industry are suffering because companies only know how to focus on the bottom line numbers rather than longevity and the smaller developers out there don't have all the resources.

     

    VR has more than just their Pantheon fans to meet expectations for. There are more people out there looking for something new and they can't just release WHATEVER they have just because of other peoples' impatience.

    Let's not forget why we are looking forward to Pantheon. It's because these developers now-a-days do quick releases of all these new games. They saitisfy us for a short time, but it's never enough. VR NEEDS to make sure that everything is in tip-top shape for Alpha because this will help us and VR determine if Pantheon is in the game for the long haul or if its going to end up being a short lived fantasy.

    • 287 posts
    June 16, 2019 3:14 PM PDT
    We all want it out but it has to be ready. Waiting does suck though.
    • 31 posts
    June 17, 2019 4:01 AM PDT

    fancy said:

    They also have much bigger expectations BECAUSE of exactly what you said Bently. Because there's a hole... and people don't know how to fill it. There's your Classic WoW, the hand holding WoW, FF XIV, SWTOR, BDO, etc. There are even private servers OF those games.

    Game developers out there focus more on the "WOW" factor with graphics and forget that people enjoy the immersion of a game as well as the amazing lore that comes with it. Which is why some people are going back to the classics... it touches on all of those but in THEIR OWN WAY.

    We need another one of 'these', but fresh and new -- New lore, new concept, new experience. Pantheon isn't focused on filling that entire hole because the hole isn't there just because there isn't ONE amazing MMO out there.. Many genres in the gaming industry are suffering because companies only know how to focus on the bottom line numbers rather than longevity and the smaller developers out there don't have all the resources.

     

    VR has more than just their Pantheon fans to meet expectations for. There are more people out there looking for something new and they can't just release WHATEVER they have just because of other peoples' impatience.

    Let's not forget why we are looking forward to Pantheon. It's because these developers now-a-days do quick releases of all these new games. They saitisfy us for a short time, but it's never enough. VR NEEDS to make sure that everything is in tip-top shape for Alpha because this will help us and VR determine if Pantheon is in the game for the long haul or if its going to end up being a short lived fantasy.



    Totally agree with this also, the"bottom line numbers" is really the "clone" effect. That sort of design really bothers me when I see it. However, for some games it has worked out alright (e.g. Fornite, Apex Legends)

    • 8 posts
    June 18, 2019 3:17 PM PDT

    There is one thing that is certain about Pantheon. We can see gameplay and progress of the of the one we backed!! :D  Unlike another crowd funded mmorpg that made a shitty battle royale in 4 years...

    • 3852 posts
    June 18, 2019 4:59 PM PDT

    Good point Tezlia - I thought of pledging to that one too just to give me more to do while waiting for Pantheon and I am so glad I didn't.

    • 70 posts
    June 18, 2019 5:50 PM PDT

    Pantheon is the one MMO in a long time that honestly labels its development stages for external consumption, in a no-nonsense and honest manner akin to how it would have been back in MMO golden age days.

    Look at Camelot Unchained, which calls itself Beta despite never having anything approaching an open world to roam in, only structured focus testing for short periods (and never over multiple days), and NEVER ever posting game footage as a normal "look at our progress" barometer. What is seen may look good graphically, but it isn't a cohesive game yet in any macro-sense. Despite donating heavily to CU as well, I just stopped even caring when all I ever got was links to more "guy sitting on a sofa talking about the game" videos instead of just posting features showing the game itself being played.

    By the time you have earned the right to call your game "in Beta", you should trivially be able to communicate changes in features and such via in-game footage rather than only talking about them. I'm not opposed to doing it both ways, but exclusively talking about it all the time leads one to believe the in-game route cannot be done because it isn't there yet. Bad marketing move for a game saying it is "Beta".

    I like VR calling it PA, since it is more of an under-promise and over-deliver scenario. And it simply feels more accurate from a game systems and development cycle POV.

     

    (hint: a Beta is when the Whole Game is running, and you are polishing things, possibly filling in some final systems that weren't ready yet for launch and perhaps load testing with real player population numbers - NOT for inventing zones, content, entire game systems and not even knowing if everything fits together logically yet)

    When you call your MMO "in Beta", every release-time zone should be in the game to at least travel to. And the game should be running essentially "all the time" for some defined period of days/weeks, not just started and stopped every couple of hours. If there are zones you haven't even enabled yet because you aren't done building their terrain, or have no real idea what mob layout or purpose the zone serves overall in the grand scheme of things, then you are not ready to call it Beta yet ...


    This post was edited by redgiant at June 18, 2019 5:56 PM PDT
    • 21 posts
    June 18, 2019 8:38 PM PDT

    have you tried Project Gorgon ?

    • 93 posts
    June 19, 2019 8:22 AM PDT

    Ezrael said:

    Think about how the MMO community at large feels, this feeing is felt across many forums and message boards. Some people are playing what they call the big 4 now with WoW, FFXIV, GW2 or ESO but even there people are only playing it ‘because’.

    WoW classic has helped to invigorate old timers and also young blood to realise what an old school MMO was really like. But consider how many MMOs the communities have tried in the last few years, how desperate people are that they try anything and everything. Look at the failed launches of things like Bless Online, a game that had already failed in another region years ago but relaunched and predictably failed again yet people still paid and tried it because they are so desperate for something new.

    The Pantheon developers know this too, they are keenly aware of how desperate people are but also how fickle the MMO crowd can be. In addition to this, Pantheon is crowd funded and crowd funding is currently a very grey area for MMOs with several of them in development but people questioning what is going on, because it’s still such an early concept, and projects like Pantheon, AoC, CU and Star Citizen especially remain questionable to the masses, especially the clickbaiting games media.

    Many people are watching Pantheon or will be aware and come try it when something is out, for many that could be Alpha and if Alpha is successful then for the masses it will be Beta.

    However, that relies very strictly upon a successful Alpha testing period, because so many more will be involved, Alpha won’t actually be like an internal closed Alpha, there will be so much chatter and exposure.

    Alpha for Pantheon is more like a demo, and VR recognises this. Which is why they’ve taken a decision to make Project Faerthale into a fully fleshed out Pantheon release for a total zone with all systems running.

    Because that will serve as both an excellent design principle to speed along the development afterwards and also serve as a key marketing tool to show the masses what Pantheon is actually meant to be.

    Patience is what we need, let them do a good job.

    • They are making the right decision with Project Faerthale in more ways than one and it will pay off in the long term.

    Great post and I couldn’t agree more!  Get Project Faerthal done right and the chance that Pantheon is a success increases ten-fold!

    • 409 posts
    June 19, 2019 10:27 AM PDT

    benaniel said:

    have you tried Project Gorgon ?

    Actually, yes, because there is an actual game to try. 

    But back to the OP topic - uhm, don't fret, the current newsletter has CONCEPT ART!!! You know when you see concept art, a fully functional game isn't that far off, maybe 4-5 years tops. Don't be so impatient.

    • 1428 posts
    June 22, 2019 1:28 PM PDT

    Tezlia said:

    There is one thing that is certain about Pantheon. We can see gameplay and progress of the of the one we backed!! :D  Unlike another crowd funded mmorpg that made a shitty battle royale in 4 years...

    it's okay. you can out ashes of creashunned XD

    • 4 posts
    June 23, 2019 6:42 AM PDT

    How long has the pre-alpha 5 been running until now?

    • 216 posts
    June 23, 2019 6:59 AM PDT

    Skuhl said:

    How long has the pre-alpha 5 been running until now?

     

    Pre alpha 5 has not begun yet.

    • 4 posts
    June 23, 2019 7:07 AM PDT

    okey, it is still the pre-alpha 4 ? and 4 runing since December 2018 ? Sorry i'm new to Pantheon, but it is very impresive to my, it looks like a big number for me. :) the one real good mmorgp since years !

     

    EDIT:

     

    Pre-Alpha 4 starts on November 25th and ends December 20th.

     

    hehe sorry i searched a while and i got my answer :)


    This post was edited by Skuhl at June 23, 2019 7:11 AM PDT
    • 500 posts
    June 23, 2019 9:24 AM PDT

    Here is a quote from Kilsin over on Reddit...

    "We don't want to pull the promo/marketing trigger too early, we are not in favour of teasing everyone who can't play the game but once we release PF to our PA testers you will see more updates and content from us as we prepare to move towards Alpha. :)

    *Obligatory reminder that we have not released any Alpha/Beta testing dates as we are firm believers of focussing on what we have in front of us now, doing a good job, following our internal progress checks/milestones and speaking about future testing phases as we get closer to releasing them and not a minute before!"

    • 1247 posts
    June 23, 2019 4:06 PM PDT

    Tezlia said:

    There is one thing that is certain about Pantheon. We can see gameplay and progress of the of the one we backed!! :D  Unlike another crowd funded mmorpg that made a shitty battle royale in 4 years...

    That’s a good point.

    • 125 posts
    June 24, 2019 9:37 AM PDT
    I appreciate how VR is taking their time to complete these early stages or the game. This is the most important part, everything else will be built upon this pre alpha material.

    I hope nobody figures out how to get the mechanics of Mordhau properly into an mmorpg in that time. That would decimate mmorpgs as we know them. I think we’re gonna have a few more “life is feudal” before that though.

    Prrrtt much every mmorpg I’ve played since eq has been short lived, but I always come back to eq.