Forums » Expansion Classes

A Shapeshifter Class/ Integration of Shapeshifting Abilities

    • 134 posts
    June 6, 2019 1:46 AM PDT

    I was debating about adding this as a topic under "Expansion Classes" as the aspects of a shapeshifter class are usually tied in with druids, however, shapeshifting aspects could be tied into shamans and beastlords as well. I saw a similar topic under the druid forum, however, I believe shapeshifting aspects are not unique only to druids. As of the date that this topic was posted none of the existing classes have any shapeshifting ability.

    So here is how I feel about this topic:

    I think that it would be cool to see a class designed around shapeshifting, or eventually seeing aspects of shapeshifting being integrated into existing classes. I think the concept of shapeshifting has a lot of possibilities in terms of skill design, class flavor, and possibly lore expansions.

    If a class were to be designed primarily around shapeshifting then I think that the beastlord could be a good candidate as Pantheon is aiming to give each class their own unique identity.  In the past beastlords have usually commanded animals into battle and I think this is a great aspect, but I think it could be cool to see them transform into an animal or various animals themselves. 

    If Shapeshifting aspects were to be tied into existing classes then I think the druid and shamans could be good candidates. I think it would be cool to see the druid be able to transform into a Tree of Life or a fox aspect, Shamans could turn into wolves, and if beastlords were to be added at a later date maybe they have the ability to transform into bears.

    What opinion do you guys have about a shapeshifting class, or integrating the ability to shapeshift into existing classes? Please share your thoughts below.  

    • 20 posts
    June 7, 2019 1:20 PM PDT

    play an enchanter or druid...end of the thread.

    • 134 posts
    June 8, 2019 12:35 AM PDT

    Morn said:

    play an enchanter or druid...end of the thread.

    Just wondering how you came to the conclusion that either of those classes fit into this niche within Pantheon? Did I miss an ability under one of these classes? The closest thing I saw was the enchanter's illusion ability, Squee’s Mimicry, and Squee’s Grand Foolery. Those spells are not shapeshifting based, they are illusion stealth-based abilities for the purpose of avoiding combat.  

    Maybe it is your definition of shape-shifting that has lead you to this conclusion, and this might be my bad. When I created this post maybe I should have defined shapeshifting. Shapeshifting is transforming into another form and using that form for offensive combat purposes, or defensive combat purposes if the form is based around healing. A shapeshifting form is maintained in combat, while the enchanter's illusion ability sounds like it falls off when combat is entered.

    Now the druid doesn't have any ability that remotely implies that they can or will be able to shapeshift.

    But don't get me wrong if you can defend your position and provide evidence that either of these classes fits into this class archetype, by all means, please go for it. 

     

    • 12 posts
    August 17, 2019 4:16 PM PDT

     I honestly don’t think he read your entire post b4 submitting a quick reply.

     

    Shapeshifter is generally accepted as a more animalistic or feral type of class who changes into animal forms. An illusionist is what the Enchanter has some abilities in. Its not the same lore or character design at all. Again I think he just replied b4 actually reading your entire post because you address this pretty well. 

    IMO you have some good and keen insights. I had also thought about this class being in Pantheon. The Beastlord is the PERFECT character to implement really effective shape shifting. Yes other classes may be able to do it, but it won’t be one of their primary attributes. Shapeshifting is a backbone of the entire shapeshifter class, rather than a supplement to the class. Again I think Beastlord is a great fit for this. Why not morph into the same animal pets you control? Wolf pack instead of 1 guy and 1 wolf. 

    The class could be separate also. If the Beastlord went the way/style closer to that of an animal “tamer” then that would open up an entirely separate class for the Shapeshifter. 

    Due to development resources the shifting class would have to transform into creatures or assets that are already exist (mostly) in the game. To transform into a different type of creature altogether that can wear visible armor would be too much work for the devs. But into a wolf, bear, eagle, etc? That wouldn’t be as much of a problem because the animations, general creature design are already finished. 

    • 367 posts
    August 30, 2019 3:47 AM PDT

    Baldur said:

    Morn said:

    play an enchanter or druid...end of the thread.

    Just wondering how you came to the conclusion that either of those classes fit into this niche within Pantheon? Did I miss an ability under one of these classes? The closest thing I saw was the enchanter's illusion ability, Squee’s Mimicry, and Squee’s Grand Foolery. Those spells are not shapeshifting based, they are illusion stealth-based abilities for the purpose of avoiding combat.

    In EQ, there were racial illusions and then there were non-racial illusions. The non-racial illusions like skeletal, elemental and others gave certain stats and or abilities. Werewolf form gave you a super melee buff with a stackable 40% haste which allowed them to easily hit 110% when stacking with their regular haste and 146% with the Tola Robe. Hard/soft cap aside, Pantheon appears to be no different. While Minor Illusion and a Group Minor Illusion spell looks to be making a return for the purpose of fooling NPCs, Racial illusions are back as well. The liklihood that other illusions are in the works (since the concept spells in the class page are only a portion of total spells) is somewhat high. 

    Pay attention to the wording. "You will learn a vast array of Illusions to suit a multitude of needs". In Everquest the Enchanter was limited in what they could become because the developers were themselves limited to a 4MB VRAM cache. That meant per zone you could only have a few models. Racial models, Pet models (skeleton, elementals, wolves) etc., which is why the Enchanter was limited to those models. Then the added attribute based benefits or abilities were thrown in. Pantheon is less likely to be restricted to this hardware/client limitation because it was an issue due to the VRAM contraints of the first generation of graphics cards at the time.

    Now the part that says, "The more proficient your skill as an Illusionist becomes, the more truly you will share the characteristics of the thing you are mimicking", that could mean two things. Either racial faction isn't concrete and is dependent on a sliding scale based on your skill and this allows you to fool people more capably with the racial illusions, or you start to take on the statistical or valued characteristics of that thing you're mimicking. Perhaps both. However, I lean towards the latter because there will be a 'vast array of illusions for a multitude of needs' as stipulated in the description. That would mean that the last sentence should apply to the other illusions in some way.

    Now, I agree this is parsing of wording, semantics and as a concept, but overall, what you're looking for is essentially here even if it's not a melee fighting class that has the ability to morph forms for that purpose. If they do release a new class in an expansion and it ends up being as you describe, I would hope it would be something like a melee DPS class with characteristics of an Enchanter. You can morph into mobs you've fought before or are fighting now which gives you access to unique abilities used by that creature or person.

    That's something I could get behind and would be far better and more interesting than something boring like the WoW Druid where you just have an option of a few. You could essentially become just about anything. I now also have a cool idea for a class to theory-craft so I thank you for that.


    This post was edited by Janus at August 30, 2019 3:51 AM PDT
    • 691 posts
    September 1, 2019 10:54 AM PDT

    Illusions are not shapeshifting, but I too was hoping that the Druid was more in line with the DnD Druid with Shapeshifting being the primary focus/strength.  

    It makes me very sad that they didn't make the Druid that way - It would've been incredibly easy to have them do moderate spell damage, decent healing, and a couple of animal forms for utilities like stealth/threat reduction, mobility, and faction changes (to neutral), while later levels getting elemental forms that increased specific elements... water elemental allowing only healing but greatly increasing it, fire elemental giving fire DPS boost, Air giving teleports, group movement speed, and earth giving great dmg reduction buffs, AC buffs, and CC in the form of grasping hands and earthern roots.  Or they could stay in humanoid form to control weather and plants (lightning strikes, vine bridges etc) with weaker heals and buffs.

    Instead Archai, Ogres and Dark Myr Druids get a mystical female ward shaped like a Fox as a gift from a Halfling ward that casts heals for them - huh?!

    $10 says the only "1 handed edged" weapon they will be able to use is scimitars... just like the DnD Druid though.  

    • 367 posts
    September 1, 2019 8:37 PM PDT

    You seem more focused on the AD&D Druid as it sounds a lot like that class. As they are, I would rather the Pantheon version because I personally love the support heavy function of the class and the ability to heal extremely well. While the DPS component seems to be fairly good, I think this version recieved a healthy boost compared to its Everquest counterpart. As for weapon type, I'd say that you would be correct in that the 1 handed slashing is probably limited to Scimitar.

    As for Illusions not being Shape-Shifitng, it depending on how far that Illusion tooltip goes. It may be exactly that in that you take on the characteristics of the thing you're impersonating or mimicking. Who knows though. Either way, the Druid class looks interesting but from more of an enhanced Everquest variant instead of a replica of the AD&D variant.


    This post was edited by Janus at September 1, 2019 8:38 PM PDT
    • 8 posts
    September 18, 2019 11:05 AM PDT

     


    This post was edited by Durzo at September 18, 2019 11:06 AM PDT