Kilsin said:Community Debate - Dungeon finders, player spam in chat, dedicated group/raid forums or something else entirely, how do you prefer to form or join groups in-game? #MMORPG #communitymatters
Good question
Not dungeon finder that finds you a dungeon and not spam in chat.
I want a dedicated grouping tool.
it doesnt have to be part of the general UI, it can be a function of a specific NPC in tavern or town cryer in the town center.
this tool will show me all groups around my level that i can join, the purpose of these groups can be specific dungeon or even farming for item or grinding XP.
i can create a post for my own group and set the parameters i want (level range, purpose, and the roles I need)
or i can browse existing open groups and join one of them if i fit the parameters.
when a group is filled it will automatically deleted from the list. (i.e. when the group of the group initiator reach 6 people, it will remove itself from the list without the need to delete it manually)
this tool, does not teleport to dungeon, or choose random people, but used as a "persistent" LFG/ LFM without the constant spam.
the group initiator see all the willing people that want to join, and can deny an aplicaton if he wants to.
Personally i liked the old EQ way, just run to a dungeon you're hoping to find a group and shout that you are looking for a group. This can be done with a tool ofcourse where you can enable / disable it. If such a tool would be developed i don't want it to reach further than 1 or 2 zones from the current one.
I do not like mechanisms that auto port me to a group when one is available, i do not like auto joining groups when turning on LFG, i want to be in control, both as a group leader and as an individual. So no automation for me. Also when a tool is available, i do NOT want the accept or decline buttons to be hotkeyed to anything by default. Not that when i'm typing my message to my guild mates, all of a sudden a popup occurs and i'm in a group suddenly.
Thorndeep said:disposalist said:-snip this-
-snip that-
3. Do you like to explore? Find a good camp and stay put?
I wish I had emoticons.. Because I would be using the laughter one in that case.. Camping is something that belongs to MMOs in the past. Let's not bring such silly nonsense of keeping an entire server back just so you can capitalise on loot. It would not go down well with the majority of the playerbase. You want to "camp" you best be ready to also fight for it as I'm sure plenty of people won't give a rats *** about your made up "I own this mob now".
In other news.
Please. For the love of it. Make a group finder.
Add it to the Social Window in a tab of its own.
Done job, everyone is (mostly) happy. There's no reason to go back to the dark ages just because you emphasize on the ol' school MMO type, new MMOs brought some very handy tools to the field without it being game breaking. Sorting through a world/zone/general/trade/lfg chat for the group you want/need.. Is a waste of everyone's time and quite possibly.. Sanity.
A simple bulleting board system where you can advertise LFG and search through people LFG and that is it. No instant teleports or anything like that. Allow group leaders to make lists for camps so that they can keep track who is in line next for the camp. Some features are OK but nothing automated, no instant fills no teleports or anything, just a simple interface.
decarsul said:Personally i liked the old EQ way, just run to a dungeon you're hoping to find a group and shout that you are looking for a group. This can be done with a tool ofcourse where you can enable / disable it. If such a tool would be developed i don't want it to reach further than 1 or 2 zones from the current one.
I do not like mechanisms that auto port me to a group when one is available, i do not like auto joining groups when turning on LFG, i want to be in control, both as a group leader and as an individual. So no automation for me. Also when a tool is available, i do NOT want the accept or decline buttons to be hotkeyed to anything by default. Not that when i'm typing my message to my guild mates, all of a sudden a popup occurs and i'm in a group suddenly.
I agree a lot lol. I remember just running to Unrest, or insert any zone, and there being 20-30 people sitting at the entrance and I would strike up a convo with them and form some sub par group that gets the job done and off we go to find a spot, or travel to a new area and grind. Never had a need for a lfg tool because I was immersed enough in the game that I didn't need it. I think if you need QOL mechanics like a lfg for the game to go smoothley, then your World Design should be looked at. Never had a problem with EQ. Always seemed to find a group where ever I went.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Dungeon finders, player spam in chat, dedicated group/raid forums or something else entirely, how do you prefer to form or join groups in-game? #MMORPG #communitymatters
I prefer fewer tools and more personal effort both on the person(s) looking for a group and the person(s) looking for group members. I've played the games that have extensive group/dungeon finder tools and you see an overwhelming percentage of the population who use the tool, join some random group only to accomplish the one task they needed and immediately drop the group to then re-up on the same tool for the next task. Rinse and repeat. If you want groups? Be very personable, be really good at your class (and have solid knowledge of other class strengths/weaknesses) and build that reputation of being someone people will actively seek out. You'll soon rarely find ourself without a group and might find yourself with quite a few guild invites.
Thorndeep said:disposalist said:I would like to see a tidy Group Management System.
The GMS would enable players looking for groups and groups looking for players to enter their details (level ranges, zones desired, loot rules, etc) and some free text (specific aims/items/whatever) and then would give search/filter matches on suitable players/groups and you could then click to send tells or to invite, etc. No automatic teleporting to each other. No spoilers by listing all the dungeons in the realm or whatever.
The GMS would also be used to roll/vote/whatever on loot, maintain a looting history, waiting lists of players that want to join and those other group management tasks we might ordinarily do on scraps of paper or argue over or are otherwise not 'the fun bit'.
When a group leader leaves, leadership and control of the GMS is handed over, so waiting lists and loot rules/history, etc aren't lost.
Done right, it just avoids the tedious or contentious bits and doesn't replace the interactions and the social fun.
I'm not a fan of any kind of shorthand spam in text chat. The only reason LFG tools weren't used much back in the day is they weren't any good.
I like the looks of this proposal. I would also like to see an offline version that would help like minded players find each other before they even get into the game. Just some things you could input:
1. Time zone and general play time availability
2. Style of play- PVP, PVE, RP
3. Do you like to explore? Find a good camp and stay put?
4. Do you want to level as quicky as possible or spend more time on the journey?
5. Do you prefer VC or TC?
6. What races/classes/levels you currently have? What races/classes you would be interested in playing?
7. Do you prefer adventuring, crafting, a mix of both?
For those that want to you could even input what type of music you like, favorite authors, anything you feel is important.
This sounds more like a guild finder, honestly. I'd be fine with hanging around the area where I wanted to do a dungeon run and semi-spamming chat with [LFG] next to my name.
Vandraad said:I prefer fewer tools and more personal effort both on the person(s) looking for a group and the person(s) looking for group members. I've played the games that have extensive group/dungeon finder tools and you see an overwhelming percentage of the population who use the tool, join some random group only to accomplish the one task they needed and immediately drop the group to then re-up on the same tool for the next task. Rinse and repeat. If you want groups? Be very personable, be really good at your class (and have solid knowledge of other class strengths/weaknesses) and build that reputation of being someone people will actively seek out. You'll soon rarely find ourself without a group and might find yourself with quite a few guild invites.
The thing about LFG tools and aids is they remove most of the interaction between players, as Vandraad noted. It reduces us to a level and class and doesn't consider the player, just the game piece, as it were. In an open, non-instanced world, our reputation will matter. Group finders lessen that penalty, especially if they auto-assemble based on statistics.
if vr wants this game be old school, you have to socialize, they'd probably wouldn't even have a lfg tool. it detracts away from the community orientated model. i mean why bother talking to ppl when you can just que up for a dungeon finder? i can understand if you don't have the time to make connections and build relationships.
in this day and age i think you have to have some type of group finder. most of the players that would be interested in pantheon are older gamers with obligations and sometimes too busy to build those connections.
as a gamer i haven't built any lasting connections to my fellow gamers since all these sophisticated dungeon finders came out. a party meme-mber is just another que in the system.
i just miss the days of building connections with other gamers. seeing them getting better as individuals and accepting the weird quarks (such as rp, pvp, pvers) and was great to see the diversity in each.
guess i'm tired of seeing everyone go into there little boxes instead of seeing an open and diverse player interactions(the good and the bad).
as a side note, i don't really care what type of server i'm playing on pvp(by nature), pve, rp. i'm more interested in high population servers above all and i'm sure other players will attest to this.
I think having a LFG tool, window/UI feature is fine. It can be simple, or robust, it doesn't really matter to me. Something as simple as just showing your level, lfg, and class, would work. People can message you and ask if you want to join.
It could also allow you to "designate" the type of group you're looking for. Dungeon, zone, etc.
From a group perspective I would like to see a built in UI for a group "wait list". Some sort of window anyone in the group can pull up and it lists the people waiting to join your group. It can list their level, class, and how long they've been waiting. Allow anyone in the group to add someone or recommend someone and the group leader can offcially add them. When you pass group leader on to someone they inhereit the list.
EppE said:I think having a LFG tool, window/UI feature is fine. It can be simple, or robust, it doesn't really matter to me. Something as simple as just showing your level, lfg, and class, would work. People can message you and ask if you want to join.
It could also allow you to "designate" the type of group you're looking for. Dungeon, zone, etc.
From a group perspective I would like to see a built in UI for a group "wait list". Some sort of window anyone in the group can pull up and it lists the people waiting to join your group. It can list their level, class, and how long they've been waiting. Allow anyone in the group to add someone or recommend someone and the group leader can offcially add them. When you pass group leader on to someone they inhereit the list.
This sounds absolutely horrendous to me. Funny how two people excited for the same game can have such differing viewpoints on what should be in it.
Cleric said:This sounds absolutely horrendous to me. Funny how two people excited for the same game can have such differing viewpoints on what should be in it.
Alright. Well let's remember this is a debate thread. We're here to share different viewpoints.
Tigersin said:Cleric said:This sounds absolutely horrendous to me. Funny how two people excited for the same game can have such differing viewpoints on what should be in it.
Alright. Well let's remember this is a debate thread. We're here to share different viewpoints.
right? you don't want to get thanos snapped by overseer kilsin now. i've already had it happend =( oh no whr is on of my vowls going?!
FlushingToiletScreamingShower said: I would love to see the option of one or more players in charge of community lfg/lfm organization. Some folks out there may enjoy that meta-role of putting together groups for others. That may be asking too much and probably better suited for guilds. Why not weave the lfg process into class dynamics? Magic classes can add their details to a lfg list from anywhere. Hybrids from same region, and non magic class must physically visit an adventure master to sign up, or give permission to a magic player to add them. Just a thought to add some class heterogenicity or player interactions.
lfg is like sifting through a bunch of resumes. you usually end up with someone average, but they meet the minimum expectations.
you really get a good indication when you meet, talk and have a round at the golf course.
i'd rather have a sub optimal class great player than a optimal class avg player.
besides from the cohcarnage stream it looks like the composition of parties is going to flexible. weren't they 5 warriors and 1 healer? i don't remember exactly, but it was definitely oddball comp.
I question the idea that a LFG tool is not old school and the reason I question this is EQ had a LFG tool in the time I was playing between 2000 and 2003. I started shortly after the first expansion and I never played past a level 65 level cap. I am not sure the exact year it was added but I know I used long before I stopped playing. I did find information of the tool being updated in the Legacy of the Ykesha expiation in 2003. I also felt like EQ was very much a social game that I made many long term friendships. Some of them while using the LFG tool.
So while I do see issues with more recent games having LFG tools that distract form the social aspect I would like to see in a MMO, I think EQ proved you can have both a tool and a social game that works well.
Here's my perspective, as someone who has always hated creating a group. I much prefer joining one.
I have created groups, lead groups, replaced leaving members, etc. But as the years have gone by, and I have aged, I have found I prefer my play sessions to be more about the playing, and less about the management. I deal with enough managerial duties at work, when I get home, I want to just relax and play my role in game.
The other thing I noticed, as I have aged a bit and now use cheaters, reading glasses, when sitting at the computer, I have a harder time keeping up with chat spam. So for me a LFG tool helps. I have been playing P99 on and off, and I can't even keep up with EC trade spam, even when I am purposely watching it, I just can't process it as fast as I once did. I often miss /tells in a seperate window from firends for several minutes if I'm in combat, scanning trade spam or something.
I would use an LFG tool, but would not want it to aut-create a group or port people around. Just a simple tool that helps like-minded players find each otehr to begin communication. And spoemone mentioned the ability to click and begina chat window, that would be great. So many people have some really odd spellings to thier names, and it's a pet peeve of mine to type a name only to misspell it and have to do it again, especially in a case where you do include a long message and hve to redo it all do to a typo in the players name.
disposalist said:I would like to see a tidy Group Management System.
The GMS would enable players looking for groups and groups looking for players to enter their details (level ranges, zones desired, loot rules, etc) and some free text (specific aims/items/whatever) and then would give search/filter matches on suitable players/groups and you could then click to send tells or to invite, etc. No automatic teleporting to each other. No spoilers by listing all the dungeons in the realm or whatever.
The GMS would also be used to roll/vote/whatever on loot, maintain a looting history, waiting lists of players that want to join and those other group management tasks we might ordinarily do on scraps of paper or argue over or are otherwise not 'the fun bit'.
When a group leader leaves, leadership and control of the GMS is handed over, so waiting lists and loot rules/history, etc aren't lost.
Done right, it just avoids the tedious or contentious bits and doesn't replace the interactions and the social fun.
I'm not a fan of any kind of shorthand spam in text chat. The only reason LFG tools weren't used much back in the day is they weren't any good.
I’m another one jumping on team disposalist with just a couple add ons.
1) I would like to see the LFG systems be localized such that you can only see players in the same general area to limit required travel time between group forming and adventuring.
2) I am in favor of the idea of taverns being the only place you can create a group from such that people have known places to gather at specific level ranges to expedite finding a group from one gaming session to another. You will still be able to flag yourself as LFG away from taverns.
On a side note I see no reason that the LFG tool could not be a server setting. I see a very vocal subset of players that want a very bare bones, low QoL, highly punishing gaming experience. Rather than forcing a one size fits all we might as well have the LFG tool turned off on the same server that teleporting, auction houses and global chat channels are turned off and simple guild controls, high death penalty and the most brutal corpse recovery mechanics are turned on.
I think "I don't like this" is probably the least legitimate reason to not implement QoL features that others will find useful. If you don't like it, you are completely free to not use it.
An LFG or Dungeon Finder tool would be immensely helpful to people who have limited playtime, are new to the game and haven't formed steady groups, or play at odd hours and don't have the ability to form regular groups with others.
Chat spam can easily be filtered for people who don't like it, but it is useful for immediate grouping or just finding that one other person to fill out your group quickly (because you know they are in-zone).
I think an all-of-the-above approach is a good way to go.
Sometimes I like to actively form groups. Chat spam and a Dungeon Finder are good ways to get this going.
Sometimes I like to leave the possibility of finding a group open while I do other things, like work on Tradeskills or run errands around a town like organizing my bags/bank after a day of playing previously. Throwing up an LFG flag while I do other things is a good way to be found by a group needing me at a time when I may not necessarily be able to actively focus on finding or forming a group.
These are all good options, and each can safely be ignored by someone who just doesn't like them personally.
E: "to implement" is entirely the opposite of what I meant to say in the first sentence >_>
disposalist said:
I would like to see a tidy Group Management System.
The GMS would enable players looking for groups and groups looking for players to enter their details (level ranges, zones desired, loot rules, etc) and some free text (specific aims/items/whatever) and then would give search/filter matches on suitable players/groups and you could then click to send tells or to invite, etc. No automatic teleporting to each other. No spoilers by listing all the dungeons in the realm or whatever.
The GMS would also be used to roll/vote/whatever on loot, maintain a looting history, waiting lists of players that want to join and those other group management tasks we might ordinarily do on scraps of paper or argue over or are otherwise not 'the fun bit'.
When a group leader leaves, leadership and control of the GMS is handed over, so waiting lists and loot rules/history, etc aren't lost.
Done right, it just avoids the tedious or contentious bits and doesn't replace the interactions and the social fun.
I'm not a fan of any kind of shorthand spam in text chat. The only reason LFG tools weren't used much back in the day is they weren't any good.
Thorndeep said:I like the looks of this proposal. I would also like to see an offline version that would help like minded players find each other before they even get into the game. Just some things you could input:
1. Time zone and general play time availability
2. Style of play- PVP, PVE, RP
3. Do you like to explore? Find a good camp and stay put?
4. Do you want to level as quicky as possible or spend more time on the journey?
5. Do you prefer VC or TC?
6. What races/classes/levels you currently have? What races/classes you would be interested in playing?
7. Do you prefer adventuring, crafting, a mix of both?
For those that want to you could even input what type of music you like, favorite authors, anything you feel is important.
The Group Management System by disposalist is perfect. I also like having an offline version like Thorndeep said. They both help create relationships and minimize the downtime of waiting for groups. When I was in my 20s I had all the time in the world. Now I'm in my forties and I want to maximize my Pantheon time. I think the online and offline Group Management System will do that.
Trasak said:On a side note I see no reason that the LFG tool could not be a server setting. I see a very vocal subset of players that want a very bare bones, low QoL, highly punishing gaming experience. Rather than forcing a one size fits all we might as well have the LFG tool turned off on the same server that teleporting, auction houses and global chat channels are turned off and simple guild controls, high death penalty and the most brutal corpse recovery mechanics are turned on.
These people are a much smaller minority than they think, and while ignoring QoL additions so they can play the game they want is a choice they can easily make, prohibiting QoL additions so they can have the game they want severely limits the playerbase in a way that doesn't actually improve a game.