Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Community Debate - Should Pantheon have a tutorial

    • 9115 posts
    April 22, 2019 3:57 AM PDT

    Community Debate - Should Pantheon have a tutorial and if so, what would you like to see included? Please explain your answer. #MMORPG #communitymatters

    • 627 posts
    April 22, 2019 4:23 AM PDT
    I think it's better to drop players into the world with out any help or guidance. Wasd and 1,2,3,4 are easy enough to figure out. With easy access to controls info and decent Ui of the codex, inventory and so on it will be enough for most of us.

    Some of my immersion imidiatly breaks if the first ting I see is a help boks..
    • 139 posts
    April 22, 2019 4:45 AM PDT

    I would like tutorials to be smart. I didn't continue with Black Desert online because the tutorial was too much to bother with. 

    When I say smart I want the tutorial to react to me. If at the start I'm not moving, a tip in the corner could come up and show the buttons to move. If I not responding to an attack it could show an ability to press. 

    I have a poor memory so I remember things better if I discover it or work it out. If I'm told how to play the game I'll just forget it. It just becomes harder to play.

    • 223 posts
    April 22, 2019 4:50 AM PDT

    It should definitely have a tutorial, this could be someone's first time playing this type of game. There should be an option to simply jump in also.

    • 139 posts
    April 22, 2019 5:00 AM PDT

    Minecraft showed new games don't need tutorials. Who wants the fun of discovery snatched away, Tutorial are about getting non-gamers to play games. Games are born they're not made.

    • 1399 posts
    April 22, 2019 5:03 AM PDT

    I would prefer no tutorial, but instead an in game searchable help file would be smart. By default attached to the default F1 key 

    People not familiar with these types of game should at least be familiar with computers enough to know F1=help.

    This key could be re-maped later of course.

    A help file would be universal to all races starting areas.

    • 1315 posts
    April 22, 2019 5:05 AM PDT

    Knowing several very novice players who are showing interest in playing Pantheon with me I can see the value in a real tutorial. For obvious reasons the tutorial would need a skip option for those of us who have no need or desire to go through one.

    For a MMO novice the tutorial would need to be pretty extensive. It could be a good tool for introduction of many of both standard MMO functions and functions unique to Pantheon. Many will view it as distasteful but for limiting the distractions I would have the tutorial being an instance of the starter cities with progressively less hand holding until you were on your feet. This tutorial could actually be pre race and class picking.  Through the process of the tutorial a user in introduced to all the basic world information to help them make an informed desicion other that "that race looked cool" and X class is what I always play.

    For the tutorial to be truly comprehensive it would need to include movement orientation, ability stat explanation, equipment basics, ui functions, basic grouping mechanics, skill raising examples, the mechanics of the perception system, introduction to the Pantheonharmony tool, both solo and group combat, the process of gaining levels and class abilities, and maybe even some basics of trade skills and player economics.

    Its a huge list of functions to introduce and will be lengthy enough that will only be useful for true novices but will help transition new to MMO players into genera and hopefully set the expectations of what is to come playing the game. Ironic I know when both hand holding and instances will not be part of the rest of the game but I think it helps getting people comfortable.

    Tried Life is Feudal recently and its tutorial zone was terrible and clunky and very little was actually explained and could only be found through trial and error and I am still not sure how to really hit something after more than 10+ hours played.

    • 520 posts
    April 22, 2019 5:10 AM PDT

    That depend on couple factors - mainly level of intuitiveness of PC control and presence/absence of characters background. If controls are intuitive, there are links/buttons for different actions, there is no need for tutorial - in game guide is more than  sufficient.  If the character backgrounds are non existent or they are the same for every race and class then if tutorials are present it should be optional if not aside from our PC. Half-assed tutorial is worse than no tutorial at all. That being said I belive that availability of tutorial would make more "fresh" players to stay - usually putting non-veteran players in deep water at the very beginning rarely end well - having the very first mob to kick your behind is discouraging. Even "hardcore" game like DarkSouls had some sort of beginner area to "get a feel" of your character. The "WASD/1234s" are well known so there is no reason for that, but wether there are mechanics that could potentially need explaining - I belive at this point developers have a better grasp than we do. 


    This post was edited by Hegenox at April 22, 2019 5:12 AM PDT
    • 413 posts
    April 22, 2019 6:24 AM PDT

    Strong documentation and a serchable help system.  Maybe a newbie Island, but a short one.  Like if you end up having 14 different currencies - document it.  

    • 90 posts
    April 22, 2019 6:41 AM PDT
    I'd prefer just a tool tip pop up that can be disabled.
    The intricacies of and MMO are too much to put into a single tutorial that will teach a new player everything they need to know.

    I'd prefer no tutorial at all, but a series of tool tips that will explain and teach you the basics while you're playing in the world itself.
    Dumping the players into the world is fine, as long as there is a bit of guidance to assist them in picking up the basics of play in the beginning.
    • 1785 posts
    April 22, 2019 6:45 AM PDT

    1) There should be a "tutorial" that walks players through the basics of interacting with the world and NPCs.

    - This tutorial should be something that players can choose to skip.  For ease of implementation, this tutorial could be completely separate from normal play characters - meaning that people could choose to do it before character creation.

    - This tutorial should not attempt to provide any story or anything.  It should literally just be "Here is how to move, here is how to target an opponent, here is how to attack, here is how to hail an NPC, etc" - very similar to the original tutorial for EQ

     

    2) There should be a "story introduction" to the world for a character's chosen race, similar to Vanguard.

    - This should consist of a themed introduction that guides the character through their first level or two while introducing them to the backstory of their chosen race.

    - Players should be able to opt out of this experience in some way if desired.


    This post was edited by Nephele at April 22, 2019 6:46 AM PDT
    • 230 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:04 AM PDT

    Nephele said:

    1) There should be a "tutorial" that walks players through the basics of interacting with the world and NPCs.

    - This tutorial should be something that players can choose to skip.  For ease of implementation, this tutorial could be completely separate from normal play characters - meaning that people could choose to do it before character creation.

    - This tutorial should not attempt to provide any story or anything.  It should literally just be "Here is how to move, here is how to target an opponent, here is how to attack, here is how to hail an NPC, etc" - very similar to the original tutorial for EQ

     

    2) There should be a "story introduction" to the world for a character's chosen race, similar to Vanguard.

    - This should consist of a themed introduction that guides the character through their first level or two while introducing them to the backstory of their chosen race.

    - Players should be able to opt out of this experience in some way if desired.

     

    I second this motion.

    • 696 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:07 AM PDT

    Everquest was my first type of MMO and I didn't go through a tutorial on it. I just sort of figured it out when I was just a wee little kid. So I can't say what my first impression would of been like if I did go through a tutorial first. So I would say no tutorial. But if you are gonna have one atleast make it optional so I don't have to go through the tasks. Or better yet. I would like to have a tip/help menu instead. Not an annoying one like WoW, but something that can guide you through the mechanics, especially the new mechanics, like the climate system, and maybe a tip for when you get to a place you can use a rope/vinewoven bridge...etc. Other than that I don't really care for a tutorial.

    • 123 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:11 AM PDT

    For players that are on this forum (mostly experimented MMO players) I guess a tutorial is not useful, cause we know the type of game Pantheon will be. Though it was said that the game will be free for the first 10 levels if I well remember, and I'm pretty sure it will be tested by players that are not experimented or veterans of old school MMOs. So basically I'd add a tutorial, but maybe with a different goal than just teaching how to move, attack etc ... I would emphasize on the most specific features of Pantheon and especially the social aspects.

    I imagine something like this :

    - entering the game immediately after character creation, very few information (no need to explain how to move I guess, maybe just a panel indicating where to go to make its own setup), the only necessary information in my mind is to explain that spells and abilities have to be memorized from your spellbook. Next, letting the player find his first mobs and killing it (easy solo ones, like in EQ, just to learn basics). Maybe explaining how food and drink works also if it is needed to get some in the inventory not to starve, cause it is not a common feature in recent MMOs.

    - hitting lvl 2, letting the player come back to city / camp and when passing though the gate, make a npc intercept him (hop introduction to the perception system and all gameplay link to it), tell him he has made progress bla bla bla ... and explain him that he won't gain abilities or spells automatically and will have to look for it, giving him rumors on a global area where to find the first one and explaining he will have to next ones by himself.

    - hitting lvl 3-5, mobs should be harder to kill solo, when coming back to city / camp, same mechanic, an NPC intercept him and explain that the game is made for group play and explains how to use the tool VR is preparing to find groupmates, friends etc ...

    - hitting lvl 5-7, when players have already grouped, introducing guilds the same way

    - could also introduce trade skills if, and only if, the player visits the trade skills area.

    So nothing too complicated, focused on specific features of Pantheon, enough to hook up players that test Pantheon during the 10 lvl trial. I don't see any use for a tutorial after lvl 10, if players have decided to continue after this level, they will have understand that they have to learn by themselves, and for example they should be able to find how atmospheres work by themselves.

     

     

    • 259 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:45 AM PDT

    No tutorial for me, I would rather get right in and learn by doing it.

    • 3852 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:46 AM PDT

     

    Copied from another thread not because it is worth reading twice but because this is now the *official* tutorial thread.

    A simple answer, I think, that will help brand new people without bothering those of us that are far from new is:

    1. Have a tutorial going over the basics. Where people can learn how to move, how to talk to other players, that if they click on NPCs they may get a useful or interesting response, how to loot a body, how to equip items etc. Really basic things. And they can do this without being bothered by other players who they may not even know how to talk to yet. Not a separate tutorial for each race - not a starter island though unlike some of us I enjoy those - but purely a "how to play the game" session before they even get to talking to the first other player or seeing the first mob or npc in the real Terminus.

      2. Have an option on the character creation screen that can be clicked on along the lines of "skip new player tutorial". For those of us that create many "alts" perhaps have an option in the account-wide options screen (there surely will be options that we can select that apply to all characters) along the lines of "always skip new player tutorial".

    Perhaps also have a more in depth tutorial that is equally optional. If the basic very quick tutorial is "how to play the game" a follow-up tutorial could be "basic features of Pantheon". As little as 15 minutes that explain what the four basic roles are and what the role of the class the player has selected is - and what to us is quite obvious - a tank is expected to grab and keep enemy attention more than anything else, a healer is expected to heal more than do damage, etc. For all that I didn't love FFXIV it had a really good quest tutorial on the basic roles in a group. Some may say that surely someone already playing a character knows what its class is and what that class role is. Um .....no for a non-trivial number of players who like to just jump in and figure out the details later. Who may be horrified to learn that they are playing a healing class that will do far less damage to enemies than a dps class. They may have just liked the looks. Or maybe the character selection description will not be really detailed. My first character in FFXIV was a healer because after reading the description half a dozen times I thought they were saying it was a dps class. I kept her too - made getting into groups a lot faster and I do like to heal.


    This post was edited by dorotea at April 22, 2019 7:48 AM PDT
    • 370 posts
    April 22, 2019 7:54 AM PDT

    DracoKalen said:

    Nephele said:

    1) There should be a "tutorial" that walks players through the basics of interacting with the world and NPCs.

    - This tutorial should be something that players can choose to skip.  For ease of implementation, this tutorial could be completely separate from normal play characters - meaning that people could choose to do it before character creation.

    - This tutorial should not attempt to provide any story or anything.  It should literally just be "Here is how to move, here is how to target an opponent, here is how to attack, here is how to hail an NPC, etc" - very similar to the original tutorial for EQ

     

    2) There should be a "story introduction" to the world for a character's chosen race, similar to Vanguard.

    - This should consist of a themed introduction that guides the character through their first level or two while introducing them to the backstory of their chosen race.

    - Players should be able to opt out of this experience in some way if desired.

     

    I second this motion.

     

    I third this for most part. I would like to see an explanation of some features Pantheon has that other MMO's don't. For example telling people about the mentor system would be good, those type of things. 

    • 372 posts
    April 22, 2019 8:11 AM PDT

    I'm going to say no because I feel like the resources could be better spent on getting the game launch ready... but it isn't a firm no.  After consideration, I don't know if a tutorial is important.

     


    This post was edited by Tigersin at April 22, 2019 8:16 AM PDT
    • 1033 posts
    April 22, 2019 8:29 AM PDT

    I have to agree with some others. I think a tutorial is wasted resources to be honest. Have a good manual that explains the basics of game play and various mentions to lore and background of the world, make it accessible when they log in (ie put a link to it right at log on which either sends them to the sites wiki, or a pdf on the pc) and that should be sufficent for anyone who honestly is looking to educate themselves on game play or lore.

    The idea that a player needs to be hand held, told how wonderful they are, and their importance in this world is.. well... I think counter to this type of game. That sort of stuff is better suited for single player games or other linear driven games.

    • 372 posts
    April 22, 2019 8:37 AM PDT

    Upon further consideration, I don't this is a good debate topic. Of course I mean no offense, Kilsin.  I just mean that we have no idea how the game will begin, if there will be challenges, if the controls will be different from typical MMO controls, if there are added features like in-game voice that need to be explained, etc. In other words, will this game have features that should be explained to us?

    So, for that reason, I question whether or not we are qualified to put up a debate on part of the game of which we have no knowledge.

    • 411 posts
    April 22, 2019 9:04 AM PDT

    My initial reaction is that a tutorial would be good. Tutorials help - help is good - a tutorial would be good. However, I think an in-game tutorial starts your experience off on the wrong foot. An in-game tutorial tells you that the game world is a controlled, manicured, and balanced experience because the Devs are looking out for you and have made sure that you'll have what you need.

    I do think that some kind of basic reference in the options menu would be helpful. A few still images that teach some basic game concepts like how to fight, how to chat, and how to talk with NPCs.

    • 1033 posts
    April 22, 2019 9:29 AM PDT

    Ainadak said:

    My initial reaction is that a tutorial would be good. Tutorials help - help is good - a tutorial would be good. However, I think an in-game tutorial starts your experience off on the wrong foot. An in-game tutorial tells you that the game world is a controlled, manicured, and balanced experience because the Devs are looking out for you and have made sure that you'll have what you need.

    I do think that some kind of basic reference in the options menu would be helpful. A few still images that teach some basic game concepts like how to fight, how to chat, and how to talk with NPCs.

    Yeah, I think there is something to be said for being dropped off and left to your experience without instruction. In fact, I think that freedom I have fond memories in EQ of. I make a character, and there I am... some place? What is that? Where am I exactly, who is that, what do they have to say... what about that person over there "hey, I am Tanix, how are you?". This builds interaction, a "need" to explore, resolve your ignorance, and socialize. I remember being clueless on things and just asking people, interacting with them and building relationships right off the start.

    There is something to be said for waking up clueless into a world. It spurs investigation which I think is in the spirit of this game.

    • 209 posts
    April 22, 2019 9:53 AM PDT

    I personally would prefer no tutorial at all. If it is felt that a small tutorial would help attract novice players to the game (not saying it would, I have no idea), then I feel it should only cover the basics of how to move, select targets, etc. Anything that gets into combat tactics and how to actually play your character starts putting the game on rails. All players, new or old, need to figure this out for themselves.

    • 646 posts
    April 22, 2019 12:01 PM PDT

    Nephele said:

    1) There should be a "tutorial" that walks players through the basics of interacting with the world and NPCs.

    - This tutorial should be something that players can choose to skip.  For ease of implementation, this tutorial could be completely separate from normal play characters - meaning that people could choose to do it before character creation.

    - This tutorial should not attempt to provide any story or anything.  It should literally just be "Here is how to move, here is how to target an opponent, here is how to attack, here is how to hail an NPC, etc" - very similar to the original tutorial for EQ

     

    2) There should be a "story introduction" to the world for a character's chosen race, similar to Vanguard.

    - This should consist of a themed introduction that guides the character through their first level or two while introducing them to the backstory of their chosen race.

    - Players should be able to opt out of this experience in some way if desired.

    This. Wish I could thumbs up posts. xD

    • 416 posts
    April 22, 2019 1:06 PM PDT

    I like the idea of a seperate tutorial, similar to EQ, where players can the learn the basics of how to interact with the GUI and game world which is not their player character. And possibly, in-game tool tips that function as an in-game manual. Again just covering how they interface with the world. With, of course, the option to bypass these options if the player chooses.