Forums » The Wizard

Utility spells

    • 243 posts
    April 18, 2019 12:39 PM PDT

    So obviously there are plenty of spells that we don't know yet, but for now most of wizard spells are purely offensive with the addition of a portal. I wish that our beloved casters had more team-friendly spells that make them wanted in groups aside of their dps spells.  Filling weapons of allies with different elements is a good place to start. While sharpening (more dmg) and decreasing weight (more attack/cast speed) would be enchanters domain,  the fire, cold, arcane and [secret] "enchanments" would be wizards bread and butter.

    • 98 posts
    April 18, 2019 12:52 PM PDT

    I played a wizard as my main in EQ and I agree something more would have been good. At times I felt the only real unique use a wizard offered was teleporting. Sure they could do dps but lots of classes could do dps. I am not sure what I would do if I was in control and it might even be nothing. I do know that what I have learned since EQ is one should try many classes before picking one. I have never picked a wizard again. So maybe they are perfect and it was just not the class for me.

    I will say that I played EQ for many years and have never regretted playing the game and I had lots of fun with my wizard. But later games have shown me that it is likely I would have had a lot more fun playing just about any other class.

    • 134 posts
    April 18, 2019 1:03 PM PDT

    Wizard has been and always will be my first class choice, my opinion most likely wont be all that popular. I think we need portals but I don't want it to go any further then that. Couple games I have played Wizards had sleep spells, or debuffs. I found myself doing this and mostly this that I wasn't damaging the target much. 

    I say this with the exception of one irrefutable detail that has to be in the game. Wizards have to be the best dps of any class in raid or in group. That is the sole reason they had any value other than ports. It relied simply on them being the best DPS class of all the others. They bowed to nobody. If they aren't the best dps class then they can throw all the utility at them they want and I'll play something else. The glass cannon aspect of the game to me was so well done and fascinating. 

    I would like plenty of self buffs, like EQ maybe some self ac/hp buff and throw in a nice mana regen buff or a familiar that grants such capabilities and I'll be happy. I just feel like Wizards sacrificed a lot more to be the best DPS class there shouldn't be any question as to who the best is. 

    • 243 posts
    April 18, 2019 1:19 PM PDT

    But most modern MMOs raised up plenty of destruction-hungry apprentices  of THE ART, that doesn't know a thing about threat management. Many veterans when have a choice between unknown wizard vs everyone else in their party will choose whoever but the wizard - becouse potentially he may bring more bad than good to the party pulling aggro and such. And this affects all wizards - not just bad ones. Having couple abilities that helps the party would somewhat solve that problem. I'm not for making him a buffer - far from it - but 2-3 such spells are imho needed.

    • 2439 posts
    April 18, 2019 4:08 PM PDT

    I don't imagine they will branch too deep into utility. I imagine they will have ports, roots, and maybe some evac spells at high level... but group buffs and the like would have to come at the expense of personal DPS output which probably wouldn't feel so great. 

     

    Moloka said:

    I say this with the exception of one irrefutable detail that has to be in the game. Wizards have to be the best dps of any class in raid or in group. That is the sole reason they had any value other than ports. It relied simply on them being the best DPS class of all the others. They bowed to nobody. If they aren't the best dps class then they can throw all the utility at them they want and I'll play something else. The glass cannon aspect of the game to me was so well done and fascinating. 

    I would like plenty of self buffs, like EQ maybe some self ac/hp buff and throw in a nice mana regen buff or a familiar that grants such capabilities and I'll be happy. I just feel like Wizards sacrificed a lot more to be the best DPS class there shouldn't be any question as to who the best is. 

    I wouldn't count on that. The "best" in certain areas or versus specific mob types maybe (and likely not by a blowout) but the top DPS across the board they will not be. It isn't how VR is designing roles, such that there would be a clear best.

    • 339 posts
    April 20, 2019 11:38 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    I don't imagine they will branch too deep into utility. I imagine they will have ports, roots, and maybe some evac spells at high level... but group buffs and the like would have to come at the expense of personal DPS output which probably wouldn't feel so great. 

     

    Moloka said:

    I say this with the exception of one irrefutable detail that has to be in the game. Wizards have to be the best dps of any class in raid or in group. That is the sole reason they had any value other than ports. It relied simply on them being the best DPS class of all the others. They bowed to nobody. If they aren't the best dps class then they can throw all the utility at them they want and I'll play something else. The glass cannon aspect of the game to me was so well done and fascinating. 

    I would like plenty of self buffs, like EQ maybe some self ac/hp buff and throw in a nice mana regen buff or a familiar that grants such capabilities and I'll be happy. I just feel like Wizards sacrificed a lot more to be the best DPS class there shouldn't be any question as to who the best is. 

    I wouldn't count on that. The "best" in certain areas or versus specific mob types maybe (and likely not by a blowout) but the top DPS across the board they will not be. It isn't how VR is designing roles, such that there would be a clear best.

    I agree, in EQ wizards did have defensive buffs for players as well as stuns, sleep, invisibility, see invisibility, levitate and a few other spells. In some cases specially in main boss fights it would be about damage output but most frequently in groups it was about burning the right mob at th right time, agroing an add to root elsewhere, sleeping a mob that would agro on a cleric or enchanter, a well placed aoe and aoe snare/kite on adds and many other scenarios. 

    • 377 posts
    April 20, 2019 2:41 PM PDT

    Moloka said:

    Wizard has been and always will be my first class choice, my opinion most likely wont be all that popular. I think we need portals but I don't want it to go any further then that. Couple games I have played Wizards had sleep spells, or debuffs. I found myself doing this and mostly this that I wasn't damaging the target much. 

    I say this with the exception of one irrefutable detail that has to be in the game. Wizards have to be the best dps of any class in raid or in group. That is the sole reason they had any value other than ports. It relied simply on them being the best DPS class of all the others. They bowed to nobody. If they aren't the best dps class then they can throw all the utility at them they want and I'll play something else. The glass cannon aspect of the game to me was so well done and fascinating. 

    I would like plenty of self buffs, like EQ maybe some self ac/hp buff and throw in a nice mana regen buff or a familiar that grants such capabilities and I'll be happy. I just feel like Wizards sacrificed a lot more to be the best DPS class there shouldn't be any question as to who the best is. 

    I agree with much of what you say Moloka. I will go a bit further and say that my opinion is a Wizard should be able to do an Insane amout of damage in a 30 second span of spell casting if needed. In addition to Ports and self buffs I would like to see just one very desirable utility spell that any group would love to have.

    • 356 posts
    May 19, 2019 2:27 PM PDT

    Yaladan said:

    I agree, in EQ wizards did have defensive buffs for players as well as stuns, sleep, invisibility, see invisibility, levitate and a few other spells. In some cases specially in main boss fights it would be about damage output but most frequently in groups it was about burning the right mob at th right time, agroing an add to root elsewhere, sleeping a mob that would agro on a cleric or enchanter, a well placed aoe and aoe snare/kite on adds and many other scenarios. 

    What's this 'sleep' spell you're talking about? If a mob is to aggro on a Cleric or Enchanter, the Enchanter deals with it anyway. That's part of their job.

    • 339 posts
    May 22, 2019 2:32 PM PDT

    @Janus

    Sleep was very useful at times, specially during the early days of EQ, specially with a group wihthout enchanter and when the healer needed the max ammount of med time to get mana without being slapped out of med. Sometimes on multiple pulls an enchantr would have one or two mobs resist and you could help out with the control since as a wizard the last thing you wanted to do is throw an AoE spell in certain places or with certain mobs.

    • 356 posts
    May 22, 2019 4:18 PM PDT

    Yaladan said:

    @Janus

    Sleep was very useful at times, specially during the early days of EQ, specially with a group wihthout enchanter and when the healer needed the max ammount of med time to get mana without being slapped out of med. Sometimes on multiple pulls an enchantr would have one or two mobs resist and you could help out with the control since as a wizard the last thing you wanted to do is throw an AoE spell in certain places or with certain mobs.

    There isn't any occurnce I found where a Wizard took over for something that would be standard for the Enchanter. Root was their only method and even then, it was often asked not to since it doesn't help in tight quarters. I often had pulls of 5-6 mobs or more, CCing that was quick and easy on my own. But aside from the use of whatever this spell you're talking about is, there is no spell called 'Sleep' that Wizards have that I recall. That was my question, can you show me where this spell is because playing from 1999 to 2006 in the prime of Everquest, this is news to me. I looked through P99 listing, Lucy and Alla and nothing detailed a 'sleep' spell.


    This post was edited by Janus at May 22, 2019 4:20 PM PDT
    • 399 posts
    May 23, 2019 9:03 AM PDT
    Agreed Moloka and Skycaster, that's my preference as well.
    • 80 posts
    June 3, 2019 6:30 AM PDT

    Wizards look to have snares, roots, stuns, spellcasting interrupt and a spellcasting slow.

    • If there isn't one already I could imagine a knockback would be appropriate also.

     

    For beneficial utility I could see Wizards having:

    • A damage absorbing rune that could be used on self/allies
    • A spell dmg or spell crit buff
    • A weapon enchantment buff to add elemental damage to friendly players' physical attacks

    This post was edited by Ezrael at June 3, 2019 6:30 AM PDT
    • 339 posts
    July 7, 2019 5:45 PM PDT

    Janus said:

    Yaladan said:

    @Janus

    Sleep was very useful at times, specially during the early days of EQ, specially with a group wihthout enchanter and when the healer needed the max ammount of med time to get mana without being slapped out of med. Sometimes on multiple pulls an enchantr would have one or two mobs resist and you could help out with the control since as a wizard the last thing you wanted to do is throw an AoE spell in certain places or with certain mobs.

    There isn't any occurnce I found where a Wizard took over for something that would be standard for the Enchanter. Root was their only method and even then, it was often asked not to since it doesn't help in tight quarters. I often had pulls of 5-6 mobs or more, CCing that was quick and easy on my own. But aside from the use of whatever this spell you're talking about is, there is no spell called 'Sleep' that Wizards have that I recall. That was my question, can you show me where this spell is because playing from 1999 to 2006 in the prime of Everquest, this is news to me. I looked through P99 listing, Lucy and Alla and nothing detailed a 'sleep' spell.

    I had it from way back, it was a low level spell, I believe I got it in GF and was an enc/wiz spell. Not sure if it was nerfed later to just enc and was left grandfathered such as some items like my Guise of the Deceiver. I did have it and used it no doubt about it.

    • 2439 posts
    July 8, 2019 11:08 AM PDT

    Yaladan said:

    I had it from way back, it was a low level spell, I believe I got it in GF and was an enc/wiz spell. Not sure if it was nerfed later to just enc and was left grandfathered such as some items like my Guise of the Deceiver. I did have it and used it no doubt about it.

    I can 100% guarantee that wizards (or anyone until Planes of Power expansion) never had a sleep spell in EQ. They had root but that was pretty much it unless you are talking about some pre-release beta or something. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at July 8, 2019 11:09 AM PDT
    • 339 posts
    July 20, 2019 12:44 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Yaladan said:

    I had it from way back, it was a low level spell, I believe I got it in GF and was an enc/wiz spell. Not sure if it was nerfed later to just enc and was left grandfathered such as some items like my Guise of the Deceiver. I did have it and used it no doubt about it.

    I can 100% guarantee that wizards (or anyone until Planes of Power expansion) never had a sleep spell in EQ. They had root but that was pretty much it unless you are talking about some pre-release beta or something. 

    It may have been as you state but I did use it all the time, so I am unsure if it was a faction high elf purchase only, yes i played eq since the beguining so I cannot remmember the vendor in fay that sold it, it was long ago and the only thing I can possibly think of is that it was nerfed at a later date and granfathered to those that had them. 

    • 1317 posts
    July 21, 2019 8:49 AM PDT

      It was a long time ago, you are misremembering Yal.  Maybe you are thinking of Instill?  It was an upgraded form of root.  I know I have to look things up to verify that I am remembering correctly pretty often. 

     
     
     
    • 2439 posts
    July 22, 2019 11:06 AM PDT

    Also, I am pretty sure there were no wiz/enc spell vendors in GFay since neither Wood or Half elves could be INT spellcasters. 

    • 1684 posts
    July 22, 2019 2:01 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Also, I am pretty sure there were no wiz/enc spell vendors in GFay since neither Wood or Half elves could be INT spellcasters. 

    You are correct.  The spell would have been available in Felwithe, the high-elf city nextdoor to Greater Faydark.  High Elves could be wizards, enchanters and magicians.

    • 339 posts
    July 24, 2019 4:04 PM PDT

    Felwithe yes, I was a high-elf

    • 134 posts
    July 29, 2019 9:07 AM PDT

    I never recalled a sleep spell for Wizards and I played probably 10 of them through out my career in EQ. But nevertheless I just don't like being relied on to do crowd control. It takes away the essence of the Wizard. There was always a caster/melee dynamic it seemed with EQ. You either went Shaman/melee for slows and melee dps buffs, or you went Enchanter/caster for DPS and buffs. It would work if you used them the other way but it was never as effective. I was always looking for an Enchanter to clarity me because it made such a difference in the amount of time I was sitting and medding.

    Wizards were never really given much utility to help their regen. There was a shielding buff at the high end that added +1 mana regen and later on in the game there started to be more things. I would like to see something implemented along the lines of alchemy that Wizards can craft to help their situation. That way you got a wizard that puts in the time he is more efficient and does more damage than one that just arrives to the party without it hoping for buffs.

    Could even be something like sitting and meditating before heading to a group builds up some kind of mechanic that allows spells to do more damage or cost less mana for a period of time. I'm not sure the best way to do it but there are several options. One could even have your channeling skill like most games do and you can spend time building on that channeling skill to raise it above cap temporarily and the more you use damaging spells the more it dissipates. Just food for thought really.

    • 1317 posts
    July 29, 2019 9:12 PM PDT
    Moloka, as nice as being able to find extra ways to increase mana regen sounds as a wizard, I expect them to be very limited at least the first expansion or 2.
    That is a big part of being required to rely on others and a major part of what the wizard...and other casters...are balanced around. It is also a major part of the downtime that is purposefully being designed into combat.

    There is a reason why mana stones/mana robes were nerfed. Brad has learned that lesson. We did get flowing thought items eventually in eq, but that was way down the line, well after the verant years. I wouldn't hold my breath.
    • 2439 posts
    July 30, 2019 11:32 AM PDT

    philo said: Moloka, as nice as being able to find extra ways to increase mana regen sounds as a wizard, I expect them to be very limited at least the first expansion or 2. That is a big part of being required to rely on others and a major part of what the wizard...and other casters...are balanced around. It is also a major part of the downtime that is purposefully being designed into combat. There is a reason why mana stones/mana robes were nerfed. Brad has learned that lesson. We did get flowing thought items eventually in eq, but that was way down the line, well after the verant years. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    I don't suppose that is going to be the case given:

     

    Focus: Arcane Affinity (Passive) - As your Arcane Affinity focus grows, your Magic spells will return up to X% mana to you when they land. Additionally, the Mana cost and damage of your Magic spells will decrease up to Y%.

     

    Summon Arcane Familiar
    Summon your Arcane Familiar. When it arrives, it will absorb Mana from the environment equal to X% of your Maximum Mana. While your Familiar is active, it will feed X% of the Mana it holds to you every Y seconds. Additionally, you may dismiss your Arcane Familiar at any time, instantly gaining Z% of the Mana it holds.

     

    I think the downtime etc is going to come from healers needing mana, DPS casters will otherwise be able to keep up with melee DPS so groups don't prefer melee DPS as heavily as they did in past MMOs. 

    • 1317 posts
    July 30, 2019 12:06 PM PDT

    Those are class abilities you are quoting...the class is balanced around them.  Those aren't outside sources of increased mana regen that players can acquire if they go out of their way to do so.  Class abilities aren't relevant to what I was mentioning.

    • 134 posts
    July 30, 2019 12:51 PM PDT

    philo said: Moloka, as nice as being able to find extra ways to increase mana regen sounds as a wizard, I expect them to be very limited at least the first expansion or 2. That is a big part of being required to rely on others and a major part of what the wizard...and other casters...are balanced around. It is also a major part of the downtime that is purposefully being designed into combat. There is a reason why mana stones/mana robes were nerfed. Brad has learned that lesson. We did get flowing thought items eventually in eq, but that was way down the line, well after the verant years. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Excellent point. I just see the streaming videos and see mobs taking awhile to kill which is by design. I can see Wizards nuking a lot to speed that process up at least a little. But it's hard to tell until all the class balancing gets done. There's still a lot of work to do. 

    In Everquest's early days you nuked once maybe twice per mob then you had to sit and med, any more than that you were getting aggro anyways. A lot of it depends on the build of the wizard too. Slow but big damages, or smaller more repetitive damages. Got a lot to hash out before we worry about too much I guess. The mechanics and balancing will probably change a hundred times before they are set to their liking.

    • 1616 posts
    July 30, 2019 1:25 PM PDT

    Moloka said:

    philo said: Moloka, as nice as being able to find extra ways to increase mana regen sounds as a wizard, I expect them to be very limited at least the first expansion or 2. That is a big part of being required to rely on others and a major part of what the wizard...and other casters...are balanced around. It is also a major part of the downtime that is purposefully being designed into combat. There is a reason why mana stones/mana robes were nerfed. Brad has learned that lesson. We did get flowing thought items eventually in eq, but that was way down the line, well after the verant years. I wouldn't hold my breath.

    Excellent point. I just see the streaming videos and see mobs taking awhile to kill which is by design. I can see Wizards nuking a lot to speed that process up at least a little. But it's hard to tell until all the class balancing gets done. There's still a lot of work to do. 

    In Everquest's early days you nuked once maybe twice per mob then you had to sit and med, any more than that you were getting aggro anyways. A lot of it depends on the build of the wizard too. Slow but big damages, or smaller more repetitive damages. Got a lot to hash out before we worry about too much I guess. The mechanics and balancing will probably change a hundred times before they are set to their liking.

    The wizard is stated to have a mana familiar made to be 1) An innate flowing tought, 2) a mana potion when needed

    They also stated the use of arcane spells was a way to generate mana back and progressively reduce the mana cost of arcane spells while frost is made to lower hate and reduce the mana cost of frost spells too. Only fire is stated to increase cost, damage and critical chance. The overall class seems tuned not to require "new items" to work accordingly due to numerous ways to reduce mana cost, or even recover it.

     

    Only the summoner seems oriented in a classic sit and med style, probably because his pet is here for dealing sustained damage while the summoner does nuke when mana allows.