Will the game include tutorial, window tips or "help" tab with the information about different aspects of the game ie. chat commands, weather and how to deal with it etc or will we have to figure out everything by ourselves with try-and-error or via asking others? How intuitive will be the game? Obviously this is not a type of game that would hold our hands through the journey, however few starting tips would be great.
I'm for a tutorial. BDO had a very good tutorial imo. It was seemless with the game but still gave more detail than what WoW's did. EQ2's tutorial set the whole game off on the wrong foot imo. Since you're on an island it really hammered in that this was a game, and not a world. The first 30-60 minutes of gameplay should be where the game wins people over. It needs to be helpful enough to get them going but not so helpful it takes away any mystery or wow factor.
Perhaps have the tutorial guide you around your starting city. This is the bank, this is where you buy food, this is why you need food, etc. Then get sent out to the nearby noobie zone and shown the basics of combat related to your class.
Also allow an option to "skip" this whole thing if you want.
Tutorials, in my opinion are a bad idea.
Mostly due to the Marvelous plan for individual Racial Starting Cities that should in no way be compromised. One tutorial that can be bypassed, not so bad. But now make that 9 starting races so nine tutorials, an excessive amount of work for them that I don't want to wait for.
Now someplace on the forums Brad has commented something to the effect of that are aware getting people up to speed on how to play the game does need addressed, but gave no specifics of exactly how they were going to do it.
You may be able to find it (yo Bazgrim) with the search fuction, I unfortunately don't have time right now.
I'm aware of the problems that a tutorial could introduce on its own, but i think its mostly impacted by what form this tutorial takes - wether it's some scripted event, instanced zone that is unavailable later on, few sages that can answer your questions in city center and so on. At the very least i hope for "help" guide where we could find info about all game mechanics.
I am not a fan of tutorials. I have never needed them and I always wish there was a skip option. I already know the general keys in every type of MMO, FPS, RTS...etc. Tutorials always makes the game feel linear and since a tutorial happens first it will lead to a bad taste in my mouth. Minecraft didn't have a tutorial, EQ didnt, UO didn't, Legends of Aria(new game) doesn't. I think a tip menu or something while you play is good enough. I don't need to go on some stupid tutorial adventure to earn my stripes. Soooo overrated.
With that being said I don't mind tutorials..I just want the option to skip it and to automatically give me w/e exp and items I would get in the tutorial because I would rather just be thrown in the game to figure things out than be forced to endure a tutorial to learn what I already know.
I would love a physical manual, but with a digital copy of the game all we could wish for is the pdf file which is just ... anticlimatic to say the least. I really enjoyed times back in the day when we could take book in hand and study it. But when i see document file at computer after looking at those at work half of the time it really takes any ounce of pleasure even if it's about a game that i was hyped for years.
I don't mind a very small and simple tutorial, like simple WASD, space = jump try it, x - crouch, try it , climb that ladder etc etc. provided the tutorial works- heh. Even if its a small island with you alone and the final thing is you step in a portal to the splash screen to theme music and .. character selection! as everything until that point is first person PoV. I am ok with that.
And a nice, thick manual please. with vague maps.
Many of us are familiar with MMO's and gaming in general. I just try to keep in mind about the people who have no experience. If I was a gaming noob, I would expect the game to show me how to do simple combat, introduce basic skills, food and drinks, and how to navigate the starting area with an idea of a couple NPC's I can talk to for more information. The very first MMORPG experience can be intimidating. I have no doubt VR will provide a good environment for people interested in Pantheon.
As long as the tutorial is optional, go ham with it. I assume for most people as with me it just feels like a waste of time when game #1511 tells you that you move using W,A,S and D and forces you to walk up to some NPC encouraging you as if you were a 1 year old taking its first steps.
I'm not really talking about basics - WASD and other universal things don't need explaining. If the mechanics will be intuitional and there will be modern display with tabs and buttons for everything then sure - the tutorial is the waste of time and effort. However if some things will require to type some commands or to do something differently from other games it would be nice if the game introduced it to us.
A manual solves this pretty easily. It shows all the basics, what various things means, describes generally the basics, etc...
EQ had a basic tutorial where it showed you how to run, jump, move, etc... Thing is, most people didn't even use it or realized it even existed.
Personally, I think outside of the manual it isn't needed. A player that requires extensive information past that of a manual is likely not a target focus for the game anyway.
The simple answer, I think, that will help brand new people without bothering those of us that are far from new is fairly obvious.
1. Have a tutorial going over the basics. Where people can learn how to move, how to talk to other players, that if they click on NPCs they may get a useful or interesting response, how to loot a body, how to equip items etc. Really basic things. And they can do this without being bothered by other players who they may not even know how to talk to yet. Not a separate tutorial for each race - not a starter island though unlike some of us I enjoy those - but purely a "how to play the game" session before they even get to talking to the first other player or seeing the first mob or npc in the real Terminus.
2. Have an option on the character creation screen that can be clicked on along the lines of "skip new player tutorial".
3. For those of us that create many "alts" perhaps have an option in the account-wide options screen (there surely will be options that we can select that apply to all characters) along the lines of "always skip new player tutorial".
Perhaps also have a more in depth tutorial that is equally optional. If the basic very quick tutorial is "how to play the game" a follow-up tutorial could be "basic features of Pantheon". As little as 15 minutes that explain what the four basic roles are and what the role of the class the player has selected is - and what to us is quite obvious - a tank is expected to grab and keep enemy attention more than anything else, a healer is expected to heal more than do damage, etc. For all that I didn't love FFXIV it had a really good quest tutorial on the basic roles in a group.
Some may say that surely someone already playing a character knows what its class is and what that class role is. Um .....no for a non-trivial number of players who like to just jump in and figure out the details later. Who may be horrified to learn that they are playing a healing class that will do far less damage to enemies than a dps class. They may have just liked the looks. Or maybe the character selection description will not be really detailed. My first character in FFXIV was a healer because after reading the description half a dozen times I thought they were saying it was a dps class. I kept her too - made getting into groups a lot faster and I do like to heal.
Knowing several very novice players who are showing interest in playing Pantheon with me I can see the value in a real tutorial. For obvious reasons the tutorial would need a skip tool for those of us who have no need or desire to go through one.
For a MMO novice the tutorial would need to be pretty extensive. It could be a good tool for introduction of many of both standard MMO functions and functions unique to Pantheon. Many will view it as distasteful but for limiting the distractions I would have the tutorial being an instance of the starter cities with progressively less hand holding until you were on your feet.
For the tutorial to be truly comprehensive it would need to include movement orientation, ability stat explanation, equipment basics, ui functions, basic grouping mechanics, skill raising examples, the mechanics of the perception system, introduction to the Pantheonharmony tool, both solo and group combat, the process of gaining levels and class abilities, and maybe even some basics of trade skills and player economics.
Its a huge list of functions to introduce and will be lengthy enough that will only be useful for true novices but will help transition new to MMO players into genera and hopefully set the expectations of what is to come playing the game. Ironic I know when both hand holding and instances will not be part of the rest of the game but I think it helps getting people comfortable.
Tried Life is Feudal recently and its tutorial zone was terrible and clunky and very little was actually explained and could only be found through trial and error and I am still not sure how to really hit something after more than 10+ hours played.
hi,
welcome to the tut- skip
we are going to start with movement. press 'w' to- skip
now we are going to learn how to ju- skip
press 1 to at- skip
to select another tar- skip
resource management is- skip
as a tank you want to- skip
healers are very im- skip
dps is one of the greatest roles to play in pantheon. in order to be good at dealing death, you want to make sure you have the proper equipment corresponding to the enemy type and monster. your party will definitely appreciate you since you are an elite and have brought the best equipment to increase damage to each type of monster and compensation for negative weather effects.
cc is- skip
that is the basic par- skip
this is the end of the tu- skip
I prefer less of a tutorial and more like tip/help windows that are unobstrusive, and not every time you blink.
Possibly even a small icon that blinks notifying you there is a Tip/help available within whatever your doing now. Option to turn all tips notifications off, but still able to access them manually should you desire.
some games provide information overload, so it's nice to go back to something later.
Fulton said:I prefer less of a tutorial and more like tip/help windows that are unobstrusive, and not every time you blink.
Possibly even a small icon that blinks notifying you there is a Tip/help available within whatever your doing now. Option to turn all tips notifications off, but still able to access them manually should you desire.
some games provide information overload, so it's nice to go back to something later.
That would work. Tip windows you can turn on/off that describe the interface and maybe some concepts I think would be a good non-obtrusive tool AND I think it would not take too much time by the developers compared to some isolated fully interactive one.
While I largely want immersion, learning the basics of how to play the game, which is about the interface to the game moreso than the world itself, would be best left out of game. A few well done youtube videos will go a ton further to explain interface mechanics, how stats work, etc and far easier to create than in-game tutorial. I'd prefer those resources go into creating/tuning game content instead.
I play a lot of strategy board games, many of which have substantial rule books. More and more I find it both more enjoyable and efficient to watch a youtube tutorial of the game, especially if made by the publisher, than reading the manual.
Well everyone clings to the idea of "tutorial for complete morons" type of thing - where I was thinking of a way of introducing us to either new mechanics or really old ones (archaic). Eg. as I understand when we or our friends die we will frequently have to drag a corpse which would A) require our friend to give us access via special command to drag his corpse, B) dragging the corpse itself - but how? dragging with mouse button or rather inputting yet another command and the corpse will "follow" us on its own when we walk? Maybe such thing is natural for EQ veterans, but not for most players. The tips or little guide in the options in more than enough, though well made tutorial sequence can in the same time introduce us to the story.
Hegenox said:Well everyone clings to the idea of "tutorial for complete morons" type of thing - where I was thinking of a way of introducing us to either new mechanics or really old ones (archaic). Eg. as I understand when we or our friends die we will frequently have to drag a corpse which would A) require our friend to give us access via special command to drag his corpse, B) dragging the corpse itself - but how? dragging with mouse button or rather inputting yet another command and the corpse will "follow" us on its own when we walk? Maybe such thing is natural for EQ veterans, but not for most players. The tips or little guide in the options in more than enough, though well made tutorial sequence can in the same time introduce us to the story.
narrator "oh no! your teammate has died!"
narrator "you can help him by-" skip
narrator "open your spell-" skip
narrator "drag the spell-" skip
narrator "oh no! you have died!"
you "hey man can you drag my body away from the respawn location?"
your party member "how do i do that?"
you "did you do the tutorial?"
your party member "nahh i skipped it."
you "gimme one sec i'll explain it to you"
you jump on google to find the answer to no avail so you then go to youtube and watch a 30 min video on how to drag a corpse of a teammate
you jump back into the game and your party has replaced you.
Tanix said:A manual solves this pretty easily. It shows all the basics, what various things means, describes generally the basics, etc...
EQ had a basic tutorial where it showed you how to run, jump, move, etc... Thing is, most people didn't even use it or realized it even existed.
Personally, I think outside of the manual it isn't needed. A player that requires extensive information past that of a manual is likely not a target focus for the game anyway.
I will have to diagree with this, there should be an option this could be someone's first experience with an mmo and may not have the time to play as much as others. I remember (old gizzard voice) when I used to go to a book store or EB Games and would pick up a Prima book and would see all the info on a particular game and would pick up the game just because it had some cool arcane frature. It would be a good revenue for VR if there was such an option. I would buy one just because. Some peole like books others like to figure it out, a basic tutorial is ok also.
Good to have options rather than none.