I think ground mounts, if it fits the lore. Flying mounts were fun initially in other games, but totally removed all interaction with everything. I also think it should be a prestigious thing, maybe restricted to at or near max level and not an account-wide thing. Each character should have to earn it. Once you've hit the level cap, I don't really see any harm in having a travel aid. Although, based on what we know about the perception system, it might not be in our best interest to use said mount, particularly in an area that's unfamiliar, if we have chosen to be a Keeper.
I think this question was asked before, but i cannot remember exactly why or where.
My opinion was then that there should be means of travel. Wether they are fixed and fee based or onetime purchase based and free to roam doesn't really matter (except flying, flying is no good unless fixed). I do however think it should be limited to some extend. Especially regarding to immersion. As a higher level you want to come across lower levels to help them out, get supplies from or simply toss them a buff and res. This helps with building the community. But at the same time, you do not want to spend 30 minutes walking across a wasteland with no one in it.
Also, in EQ there were other benefits to having a mount, like increase regen of mana / hp in battle while sitting on a mount. These type of things were my main reason to have mounts. Generally as a warrior i would stack up on SOW potions before the mounts came into existence, after that it was just a money / inventory saver. For the casters i played this was a totally different story. it didn't matter how fast the mount was, long as i could actually sit on it and perform better at my camp spot. Go faster, longer harder!
So for me, mounts are excellent for the additional benefits. For purely cosmetic or travel purposes, i care only that you can't 'bypass' content with them.
Ground mounts yes - essential in a game with few means of more rapid transportation. We want the world to feel large but as we gain levels and complete more areas there will be many trips we take over and over and over. Walking won't make the world feel large it will make the game feel tedious.
But not mounts that are trivial to get. Require a minimum level that isn't too low. Make it per character - no level ones riding past because an older brother or sister hit maximum level. Maybe require completion of a quest.
On Ghool's point - with respect I disagree. In a large world we will often be in places where there may not be anyone nearby to give a speed buff. Or they may not be willing to. Or we may not want to spend our first 15 minutes going all over bothering total strangers by begging for buffs. On the point that fast travel trivializes the danger that horse has already left the barn. Inconsistent as it may be with basic game design we will have classes that can travel fast - both with speed buffs and teleports. Don't force me to play one of those classes to move faster than a slow walk.
No flying personal mounts. It makes things far too easy and the world far too small. I am not one of those that thinks that everything in Everquest was wonderful and should be duplicated. Instead, I am one of those that feels that way about *Vanguard* ((chuckles)). But even I have to say that adding flying mounts to Vanguard was not good. I say no flying *personal* mounts. If there are a few areas with rapid transportation having flying mounts with set routes and no ability for the character to jump off in the middle is fine.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Keeping it purely immersive and within the Lore of the game - Flying mounts, Ground mounts, both or no mounts at all, why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
Ground mounts only that do not necessarily significantly reduce travel times but do act as large mobile (and secure) storage. One pain point people bring up quite consistenly is the need to return to cities to sell/restock quite frequently. Having a horse/mule that could hold a good number of bags would help with that. Given that we're going to need multiple sets of gear to deal with the various weather and atmospheric effects, having mobile storage means we take our various sets of gear with us.
If you think about it, it makes sense to have a packhorse. We're adventurers out in the wilderness. Of course we would be taking along everything we think we might need..clothing, armor, weapons, food, etc. And yes, we could ride the animals, giving us a slight travel speed increase with, perhaps, the beast having stamina drain such that we could run quite fast for brief periods folllowed by the need to stop and rest. You could outrun one creature but you couldn't run forever.
Flying mounts, especially those controlled by players and allowed to fly anywhere, allow players to avoid all the content between A and B. You're travling over the world, not through it, not in it. But, some will say, why not just put some content up in the air for players to deal with. Really? You'd need a huge number of additional NPCs just to create a volume density equal to that of ground NPCs. Then, do you allow combat from these mounts? How would a ground based NPCs with no range ability deal with a player on a flying mount? Flying mounts trivialize travel and shrink the world and quickly become the required mode of transportation.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Keeping it purely immersive and within the Lore of the game - Flying mounts, Ground mounts, both or no mounts at all, why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
Reason why they may or may not be in-game
No mounts - Could to fit within lore if no one brought mounts to the world and the world. Perhaps no one has had to time to find a suitable animal that can be tamed and utilized in this way.
Ground mounts only - Have the races had enough time on the planet to find and tame the right animal?
Flying mounts - Seems like races bent on conquering would seek a flying mount. Dark Myr, Ogre, etc. To capture and use these flying creatures and use them as an advantage in war.
Affect on immersion if they are added to the game
No mounts - It will increase player interaction and encourage players to seek out other players for travel aid. The 'looking for help on my adventure' makes me feel more 'mortal' and a part of a living society.
Ground mounts only - I'd expect to see a tamed animal and it wouldn't add to or take from my experience. THAT SAID, if every player in a town had a mount it would look chaotic to say the least. I recall another game and seeing 12 ground mounts standing around a Mailbox and thining "is this a mailbox or a watering hole?"
Flying mounts - It would be a real shame to see a great many of these. If in-game, they should be majestic and uncommonly used. Many players flying around being silly will detract from immersion.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Keeping it purely immersive and within the Lore of the game - Flying mounts, Ground mounts, both or no mounts at all, why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
From what I've seen of the lore so far I don't see anything that would support flying mounts. That doesn't mean lore couldn't be added I just don't see it right now. Even if the lore is added, great care would have to be excercised as to reduce abuses.
Ground mounts I can see. They may shorten the time it takes to get from point A to point B but never enough to interfere with content. Plus horses can be a cool visual addition to the game, I can just see my Paladin on his war mount.
dorotea said:Ground mounts yes - essential in a game with few means of more rapid transportation. We want the world to feel large but as we gain levels and complete more areas there will be many trips we take over and over and over. Walking won't make the world feel large it will make the game feel tedious.
But not mounts that are trivial to get. Require a minimum level that isn't too low. Make it per character - no level ones riding past because an older brother or sister hit maximum level. Maybe require completion of a quest.
On Ghool's point - with respect I disagree. In a large world we will often be in places where there may not be anyone nearby to give a speed buff. Or they may not be willing to. Or we may not want to spend our first 15 minutes going all over bothering total strangers by begging for buffs. On the point that fast travel trivializes the danger that horse has already left the barn. Inconsistent as it may be with basic game design we will have classes that can travel fast - both with speed buffs and teleports. Don't force me to play one of those classes to move faster than a slow walk.
No flying personal mounts. It makes things far too easy and the world far too small. I am not one of those that thinks that everything in Everquest was wonderful and should be duplicated. Instead, I am one of those that feels that way about *Vanguard* ((chuckles)). But even I have to say that adding flying mounts to Vanguard was not good. I say no flying *personal* mounts. If there are a few areas with rapid transportation having flying mounts with set routes and no ability for the character to jump off in the middle is fine.
I guess I should clarify - if mounts are restricted to high or max level/expensive/hard-to-get etc. then it works because it takes effort and the content isn't trivialized.
I should also state that I agree with no level 1's riding around on a horse because they have a main at max level. Having it level/quest restricted makes perfect sense. In fact, I love the idea of a pack mule being available at a certain level, and then being able to upgrade it evetually to a mount would be pretty cool.
But, like I said, there's a killer team behind this game. These debates are merely here for me to pass the time while I wait for the next stream, alpha, beta, and release. There's nothing else out there that looks even remotely interesting to play.
I don't think there should be flying mounts. In order to keep the immersion, I would say players should be inclined to ask for ports or ask where the boat to "blank" is. This would help keep players involved in the community, lore, and RPG elements of enviornment.
I do think ground mounts are acceptable as long as they feel honorary when obtained, but I believe they should be an end game or max level item only. I've always enjoying being a low level character and running through a main hub and seeing that stoic guy/gal on an awesome mount all decked out in end game gear. That always made me feel the need to get there one day. Guilds could help get a mount for their other guildies as people become max level(suggestion/example). The only problem here is when an expansion is released everyone will have a mount and it will begin to take away from the immersion, but thats so far ahead I dont even want to think about it yet.
where would these mounts be parked? do they just disappear or wander around when you dismount? can they jump and reach rooftops? do these mounts just come out of your bag when you need to ride one?
not a fan of personal mounts of any kind. have you seen what happens when people congregrate with their mounts? it just exacerbates the visual clutter.
While I can acknowledge that mounts surely add convienance and time saving to the game, I believe they completely ruin class identity, immersion, and community interactions. For example, certain classes have speed buffs or quick travel abilities, what is the point of using those when you can just charge off on your own on your mount? Why move cautiouly threw a zone when you can charge threw it on your noble steed? Why bother to group up for safety while traveling when you can just fly over the zone?
If you want to add cosmetic based ground mounts, ie, increase travel speed by a maximum of 10% to 20% I would be okay with that, but if compared to WoW you gain upwards of 200% speed movement which is just game breaking IMO.
No flying mounts, unless there are specific zones that you can use them in, and no other zones. So if you make a zone that requires flying mounts, fine, but you can't take or summon your mount outside of that zone to trivialize the rest of the world. If you can't keep it in those restraints then no flying mounts at all. Cool idea in the beginning, but many people, including WoW players waiting for classic, know flying mounts ruin games in the end.
I find it hard to talk about all these details but not actually be playing the game.
I heard Brad and other DEVs already mention flying mounts create a whole of set issues that they rather not get into and are not in the current plans. Mounts are ok just as long as they are not used to be something else. Don't create a in-game store, so you can sell mounts, or potions or crafting motifs.
If Pantheon is truly breaking new ground on some mount mechanic, then I am open to it. Some limited storge capacity for a horse for when you are far away from a city would be cool, instead of traveling back to sell your junk loot. However the whole point of storage on the horse would mean travel is meaningful. Only a accomplished adventure should have a mount
I can't rule anything out, because anything would be cool in the right context, balance and relation to the world of Pantheon. So how do you create the "new MMORPG of 2020" incorporate what has worked in the past; Eliminate what has failed or is not in the "Game Tenets"? All the while, the folks on the general forums throw darts (great Ideas") and hope it will line up to what Pantheon has in mind in terms of context, balance and relation to the world of Pantheon.
So really you can discuss all kinds of ideas, but you really can't call any ideas bad. We don't know what we don't know.
I hope they incorprate mounts in such a way that, classes with travel orientated skills are relevent. Maybe have some Lore based places that are not reachable by mundane travel. Horse can't fly or swim underwater.
Kilsin said:Community Debate - Keeping it purely immersive and within the Lore of the game - Flying mounts, Ground mounts, both or no mounts at all, why? #MMORPG #communitymatters
no mounts at all just like the classic eq when everyone had to rely on foot, die or have someone speed buff you,
when mounts are introduced it just takes away that immersion
I'm not sure about the lore side of things, because I'm not familiar enough with the finer details of it. But I can certainly speak from a gameplay perspective.
I am adamantly against flying mounts, as they allow the player to skip content and reduce the size of the world to a parking lot. Plus, they would make special class abilities like Wizard and Druid ports far less valuable. Flying mounts are one of the main things that destroy an mmo in my opinion.
I'm fine with ground mounts for a speed boost, but think they should be tough to earn and only attainable at a higher level.
I'd also be perfectly happy having no mounts at all.
