Forums » The Enchanter

Current state of charm

    • 2571 posts
    June 3, 2019 10:09 AM PDT

    Nytman said:

    And you think the classes will be bvaleanced in Pantheon? Because they will not be.....

    Why is it that that the people that want it to be like EQ have there head in the sand is thaty because we disagree with you.... so you take a stab and insult us? you do know what a discussion is right if everyone thought the same there would not be much to talk about.... So we all need to agree with you because some how you are the expert on all this? 

     

    This is a forum people can have there own oipinions... we will just have to wait and see what VR does

     

    Plus Iksar you seem to be up for a discussion.... why so disgruntled about this...  Im sure you know what is said in here has little effect on what they are doing now.... Plus I know you know they already said what they wanted it to be like and it will not be like EQ1... cheers mate... they are not attacking you by having a different oppinion. =)

    No I don't imagine they will be perfectly balanced, but I do expect the classes to be pretty well balanced amongst others within their roles. 

     

    The people who want it like EQ have their heads in the sand not because they disagree with me but because they are ignoring everything put forth about the Pantheon class/quaternity role design. If people are insulted by being confronted with that then /shrug. 

    • 23 posts
    June 23, 2019 11:10 AM PDT

    charm spell must depend on npc skills like int and wis (resist and break ) but not make charmed mobs  less powerfull it doesnt make sense

     

    sry for my english xD

    • 1725 posts
    June 23, 2019 1:27 PM PDT

    eraldus said:

    charm spell must depend on npc skills like int and wis (resist and break ) but not make charmed mobs  less powerfull it doesnt make sense

     

    sry for my english xD

     

    That's where sense must be weighted with balance between roles. If rogues get an assassination skill, should they be able to assassinate any target including bosses in one prepared strike ? No, because it would break the balance between classes and roles. The same goes with every class. There is a moment where you cannot just follow logic if it goes against the core design of the game and it's tennets : interdependancy. If the control archetype can deal as much or more damage than a damage archetype, then there is no longer a need of damage archetype and you can just stack controlers to get greater benefits.

  • October 29, 2019 12:24 PM PDT
    While the extra focus on long term charms seems kinda cool, is turning the enchanter into just another pet class? And once the long term charmed mob dies, is the character gimped until he can find another?
    • 2 posts
    November 20, 2019 11:39 AM PST

    FlushingToiletScreamingShower said: While the extra focus on long term charms seems kinda cool, is turning the enchanter into just another pet class? And once the long term charmed mob dies, is the character gimped until he can find another?

    The latter sentence is often true, irrespective of the former - but only in relation to damage-output. With having utility to control (Hate-list wipe, stun, slow, pacify etc), only the capacity for defeating monsters through combat is reduced...  (Yes, we could always assume that fighting is the only answer.)

    • 69 posts
    January 24, 2020 6:12 AM PST

    I recently played an Enchanter on one of the progression servers that Daybreak Games runs, and after hitting level 50, I was sad to see the class devolve from being crowd control / utility (which I found just as enjoyable now, as I did back in the day), to a pet class with a pet that made the Mage and Necro look feeble by comparison. Groups literally wanted nothing more than Enchanters with pets wrecking everything in sight. Sitting in the Plane of Hate, charming mobs that used to wipe the floor with entire groups back in the day just felt so broken and overpowered (which is clearly why people are fighting for it to return in Pantheon).

    Having buffs such as haste and mana regen, combined with the best crowd control and a pet that can tank + DPS better than actual DPS classes is just too much. I love the class, I fully intended for it to be my main, but if it ends up anything like the EQ version, I will play something else entirely (I don't have the same enthusiasm for any other class, unfortunately).

    In addition, as an adult with a wife and children, having a pet that will smash you to pieces every time you even consider leaving the PC is just not viable, or fun to me (I really did detest it in the end).

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the maximum level of mobs that you can charm reduced and take away the endless nightmare of charm breaking, or as mentioned previously, constrain charm duration to mana consumption.

    The random charm breaks were the killer for me, I most certainly cannot see myself paying to experience that nightmare ever again.

    • 546 posts
    January 24, 2020 7:20 AM PST

    Shadowbound said:

    I recently played an Enchanter on one of the progression servers that Daybreak Games runs, and after hitting level 50, I was sad to see the class devolve from being crowd control / utility (which I found just as enjoyable now, as I did back in the day), to a pet class with a pet that made the Mage and Necro look feeble by comparison. Groups literally wanted nothing more than Enchanters with pets wrecking everything in sight. Sitting in the Plane of Hate, charming mobs that used to wipe the floor with entire groups back in the day just felt so broken and overpowered (which is clearly why people are fighting for it to return in Pantheon).

    Having buffs such as haste and mana regen, combined with the best crowd control and a pet that can tank + DPS better than actual DPS classes is just too much. I love the class, I fully intended for it to be my main, but if it ends up anything like the EQ version, I will play something else entirely (I don't have the same enthusiasm for any other class, unfortunately).

    In addition, as an adult with a wife and children, having a pet that will smash you to pieces every time you even consider leaving the PC is just not viable, or fun to me (I really did detest it in the end).

    Personally, I'd prefer to see the maximum level of mobs that you can charm reduced and take away the endless nightmare of charm breaking, or as mentioned previously, constrain charm duration to mana consumption.

    The random charm breaks were the killer for me, I most certainly cannot see myself paying to experience that nightmare ever again.

    In Pantheon you have two kind of charms - basic: which makes you able to take control of "regular mob" with a chance to permanently charm them and "epic version" of it, that allows you to take control of higher tier mobs but without an option to perma charm - so if playing safe is your thing, you are not crippled. Find a guild of casual (or at least non-hardcore) players and you are good to go. Majority of pledgers are adults - frequently with families or work related obligations, so we are able to understand the need of leaving computer when the real world calls ;-) 

    • 392 posts
    January 30, 2020 10:43 AM PST

    Hegenox said:

    In Pantheon you have two kind of charms - basic: which makes you able to take control of "regular mob" with a chance to permanently charm them and "epic version" of it, that allows you to take control of higher tier mobs but without an option to perma charm

    Unless things have changed, and unless I'm mistaken, the standard charm does not have a permanent charm chance as that requires the passive 'Mental Terraformer'. Then the epic version that has the innate permanent chance built in but also works with Mental Terraformer for an even greater chance.

    Personally -- and this is separate from your discussion-- , I think the function is short-sighted and I would like a more well thought out mechanic. The last thing I want is to sit in a dungeon constantly clipping a charm spell to get a perma pet and get passed around from group to group as I would do everything I can not to die or be forced to zone. A mechanic not given much though that creates a horrible almost forced behavior among Enchanters.

    Cross your fingers it gets looked at and revised.

    • 346 posts
    February 2, 2020 11:41 PM PST

    Janus said:

    Personally -- and this is separate from your discussion-- , I think the function is short-sighted and I would like a more well thought out mechanic. The last thing I want is to sit in a dungeon constantly clipping a charm spell to get a perma pet and get passed around from group to group as I would do everything I can not to die or be forced to zone. A mechanic not given much though that creates a horrible almost forced behavior among Enchanters.

    Cross your fingers it gets looked at and revised.

     

    This is a good point. I don't want to sit in a zone constantly trying to charm hoping for a perma charm. In fact I'd rather not charm at all in group settings. I don't want to play an enchanter as a charm pet DPS class I want to do crowd control. I want to have someone pull big packs and I want to mez them. If charm is only a unique situation ability I would be much happier. If I wanna solo or I'm in an undersized group or something... I guess you could make a charmed mob "join" the group so that if you have a full group you can't charm. Similiar to what FF14 has with Chocobos. This would allow for charm in undersized groups or solo content but not force the enchanter into being a pet DPS class. Just idea's, don't kill me if you disagree. 

    • 1456 posts
    February 4, 2020 10:01 AM PST

    EppE said:

     

    This is a good point. I don't want to sit in a zone constantly trying to charm hoping for a perma charm. In fact I'd rather not charm at all in group settings. I don't want to play an enchanter as a charm pet DPS class I want to do crowd control. I want to have someone pull big packs and I want to mez them. If charm is only a unique situation ability I would be much happier. If I wanna solo or I'm in an undersized group or something... I guess you could make a charmed mob "join" the group so that if you have a full group you can't charm. Similiar to what FF14 has with Chocobos. This would allow for charm in undersized groups or solo content but not force the enchanter into being a pet DPS class. Just idea's, don't kill me if you disagree. 

    Well stated.  I feel the same.

    They have mentioned that charmed pets will be tuned down.  I'm ok with putting limitations on charmed pets.  It was a little OP in early EQ.  It's as if charm focus or mez focus could be separate paths but they don't seem to want to offer those either/or type choices.  I guess it's easier to balance if everyone has access to all abilities.

    • 546 posts
    February 6, 2020 6:30 AM PST

    Janus said:

    Hegenox said:

    In Pantheon you have two kind of charms - basic: which makes you able to take control of "regular mob" with a chance to permanently charm them and "epic version" of it, that allows you to take control of higher tier mobs but without an option to perma charm

    Unless things have changed, and unless I'm mistaken, the standard charm does not have a permanent charm chance as that requires the passive 'Mental Terraformer'. Then the epic version that has the innate permanent chance built in but also works with Mental Terraformer for an even greater chance.

    Personally -- and this is separate from your discussion-- , I think the function is short-sighted and I would like a more well thought out mechanic. The last thing I want is to sit in a dungeon constantly clipping a charm spell to get a perma pet and get passed around from group to group as I would do everything I can not to die or be forced to zone. A mechanic not given much though that creates a horrible almost forced behavior among Enchanters.

    Cross your fingers it gets looked at and revised.

    You are right indeed. I mixed it up with Summoners "Summon Behemoth" spell which cannot be perma charmed. Thanks for correcting me.

     

    I think that the strenght of the charmed mob should be balanced in that way that Enchanters should be "forced" to think wether they want to hunt for perma charm or not - if mobs will be too overpowered then every Enchanter would be expected to have zones most potent perma-charmable monster by his side, but if charmed mobs will be underwhelming most wouldn't bother with it and where is the point in that... 

    • 392 posts
    February 10, 2020 5:58 PM PST

    Strength of the charmed pet was detailed by Chris to be weaker and with hints that our desire to charm will be due to unique abilities that mobs have. However, the perma charm mechanic as it is is just odd. What they should do is have Shock and Awe be the charm as you don't get to control the mob but it attacks the nearest non-mezed target for a set duration. Then have the charm modified into an astral projection. Where you pull an image from the mob in question with all of its abilities. It remains as a permanent pet but operates mainly for the unique abilities in question. 

     

    Not the best ideas as I'm only shooting at the hip here, but having the small chance to permanently charm rests a huge power disparity on the whim of a crappy RNG that rewards sitting in a zone recasting the spell at duration clip. I'd say get rid of the permanent chance as a function and reevaluate. 


    This post was edited by Janus at February 10, 2020 5:58 PM PST