I was thinking earlier, and was hoping for something that keeps track of various "fun" stats and personal records, much like many single player games do (Ex. Pillars of Eternity). This could be a very basic sheet that says things like Biggest hit: 427, Favorite Spell: Burst of fire, 681 casts; Miles(or KM) travelled: 68.5, etc. or it could be more extensive, where you can drill down into the information.
So, you could have things like: Favorite enemy: Snakes 68 --> 32 Grass Snakes, 14 Rattlesnakes, 12 Asps, 10 Water Moccasins; Total Damage done: 85329 --> Spells 48963, pet 30991, melee 5375, then drill down into your spell damage and see which spells you've done the most damage with etc.
Obviously this is a low priority request, and I don't expect the game to come with a Tableau license or anything, but I like seeing this sort of information even if it is just for fun.
You could also use it to see things like, favorite group mate: Joe Smith - 44.2 hours. Then you wonder why you haven't friended him yet.
If anyone else likes this sort of thing, what kind of data would you want to see?
Thanks for reading, have a happy Friday!
~Dracomir
As they've said there will be a client-side log file, you could produce these stats on your own, if desired. It would be fun/interesting if the server kept track, too, though.
I like the idea of gaining a combat advantage after killing the same type of creature 100, 1000, or 5000 times, as well, in addition to just the stats part of it.
I'm fine with leaderboards too, but it might be reasonable to reset them after each patch, or each month, simply due to inevitable changes and character growth. I recall (don't remember which game) that there was a highest_hit public stat, but on one day, for a few hours or something, a particular spell was critically hitting for the max unsigned value of a 32 or 64 bit INT, which caused, as you can imagine, quite a skew in the worldwide values. Yet, the devs never cleared the artificially bugged values, and never reset them over time. So, people stopped using them, because those numbers were impossible to exceed. Apparently running one SQL query was 'too much'. :P
Personal stats though of trophy counts for animals, humanoids, elementals, that kind of thing, would be useful if they plan on having bane or expert or slayer type combat or perception bonuses.
Current faction values would be of great value, as well, if you're the kind of player that cares about faction.
If you're interested in such info, it should be fairly easy to parse it out of the combat log (assuming it will work similar to EQ where you get a line like "You have slain xy!"). May not be totally accurate though, since you can only count the killing blows. I doubt it will be possible to display that information in the game however, since the stance has been "no mods" so far. But as an external tool that parses the log, I see no problem.
Getting grouping time should be possible in the same way (if there's something like "XY has joined the group" or "XY has left the group" in the log).
((I was thinking earlier))
Always dangerous - I try to avoid it. And I am sure more than a few people on these forums will happily vouch for that.
I agree fluff like this is nice - I agree fluff like this is a low priority. Basically I just agree.
Number of kills, number of deaths, level attained before first death come to mind.
I would *not* give any kind of deed or title relating to levels gone without dying in this game - it is too discouraging to grouping. You can go a lot longer solo before dying since you have more control over what is happening and where.
dorotea said:((I was thinking earlier))
Always dangerous - I try to avoid it. And I am sure more than a few people on these forums will happily vouch for that.
I agree fluff like this is nice - I agree fluff like this is a low priority. Basically I just agree.
Number of kills, number of deaths, level attained before first death come to mind.
I would *not* give any kind of deed or title relating to levels gone without dying in this game - it is too discouraging to grouping. You can go a lot longer solo before dying since you have more control over what is happening and where.
It is dangerous when you start thinking. You are correct in your statement. Though, being honest, I think it's *more* dangerous when oneADseven starts thinking :)
I agree with your agreement however. I don't see any harm in these sorts of stats being tracked somewhere. In EQ2, I always liked how I could go to the character web pages and see all kinds of interesting (and probably meaningless) stats about what I had done on that character.
Vandraad said:Didn't EQ2 do something like this? I wouldn't mind seeing an effect like this.
My memory is fuzzy on the exact details, but the way it worked in EQ2 is that you got two or three different achievements for killing different numbers of an enemy type. For example, Gnolls.
100 kills = Title: Hunter of Gnolls
1000 kills = Title: Killer of Gnolls
5000 kills = Title: Slayer of Gnolls
In addition, EQ2 had "Legend and Lore" quests specific to enemy types. Completing one of these quests (which involved killing them and also gathering some drops) gave you a "Master Strike" ability that you could use against that enemy type.
I don't believe the achievements themselves ever actually gave you a combat bonus, but like I said my memory is fuzzy on the exact details. It was a long time ago.
For Pantheon, I don't mind seeing achievement titles based on statistical achievements. So if you walk 10,000 miles in game, maybe you can use the title "The Traveler". I would, however, want these achievements to have very high requirements so that they stay meaningful over time.
However I don't know that there should be combat bonuses tied to statistical achievements. The reason for this is again that I want the achievements to stay meaningful over time. If everyone makes a career out of killing orcs, because there are simply lots of orcs to fight, then everyone eventually ends up with the Orc Slayer bonus.
Finally, I think statistical achievements could be used in very interesting way in conjunction with items. I talked about this a bit a few months ago when we were discussing item sacrifices. But the general idea is that if you use the same sword to kill 10,000 orcs, maybe that sword acquires a Bane bonus vs. orcs. Or if you walk those 10,000 miles in the same pair of boots, maybe they acquire some minor property or bonus (or possibly they just fall apart from wear). My inspiration for this is that if you look at mythology and you hear about an item, that item always became famous because it was used for some great deed. The sword that slew the dragon, the shield that held firm against the giant's strike, the cloak that protected the hunter through the 1000-year blizzard. It would be very cool if, rather than just *finding* these sorts of items in game, through our deeds we could actually have the potential to create them.
Rarely, of course. We wouldn't want this being something that everyone did 3 times a week.
There's my ramble for the morning. I'm just as bad as Dorotea when I start thinking (but still not as bad as oneADseven :P )
Nephele is correct about EQ2. Players could unlock an archetype-based "mastery strike" by completing the various Lore and Legend quests found in the game. It was a great feature early in the game but was eventually changed to something much less "earned" and satisfying. Nephele is also correct about the various achievements. There were a few other ranks in between and the order is slightly off but for a fuzzy memory Nephele is pretty on point. (I had to cheat and look up a wiki just to cross reference and make sure ... even though I'm fairly certain it was different back in the day.) As with most other things ... Nephele is and will continue to be the voice of reason around these parts. (IMO) My natural instinct is to be intrigued by anything and everything he posts (even the crafter stuff which is not normal for me) -- he has also earned my absolute trust whenever he breaks down the pros/cons of any feature/system/mechanic. Neph has proven time and time again that he knows what he's talking about and that he's more than capable of rendering an unbiased high level opinion. That includes me being a dangerous thinker and sometimes having too much coffee.
Vandraad said:Didn't EQ2 do something like this? I wouldn't mind seeing an effect like this.
They did, although, it's not necessary for it to simply be a damage bonus. It could be, for example, the ability to accurately assess their personality or disposition via Perception, prior to a fight. Or their resistance weaknesses or strengths. Or their highest and lowest stats. Or their faction value. Or whatever other numeric thing that's associated with that gameobject entity.
For combat, though, you could make it a selectable/customizable option, so that, for example, mez's or stuns on those non-boss creatures might last longer. Or bleeds would last longer. Or snares would be stronger. Or knockbacks farther. Or knockdowns last longer. And maybe, if you combine it with sacrifice buffs, you could change that effect once per RL day. Doesn't always have to be "You do 5% more damage". Although that would be nice too. :)
oneADseven said:Nephele is correct about EQ2. Players could unlock an archetype-based "mastery strike" by completing the various Lore and Legend quests found in the game. It was a great feature early in the game but was eventually changed to something much less "earned" and satisfying. Nephele is also correct about the various achievements. There were a few other ranks in between and the order is slightly off but for a fuzzy memory Nephele is pretty on point. (I had to cheat and look up a wiki just to cross reference and make sure ... even though I'm fairly certain it was different back in the day.) As with most other things ... Nephele is and will continue to be the voice of reason around these parts. My natural instinct is to be intrigued by anything and everything he posts (even the crafter stuff) -- he has also earned my absolute trust whenever he breaks down the pros/cons of any feature/system/mechanic. Neph has proven time and time again that he knows what he's talking about and that he's more than capable of rendering an unbiased high level opinion. That includes me being a dangerous thinker and sometimes having too much coffee.
Dude. Stop. You keep talking like that and we're going to have to renegotiate our contract before I go bankrupt. :)
Seriously though, thanks for the kind words. I will say however that often my posts come after I have read and really tried to fully understand what everyone else is trying to say in these discussions. We're all guilty sometimes of typing out a response before we've really thought it through. I just try really hard not to make that mistake. But anyway, just because I might come across like I know what I'm talking about doesn't mean that other people don't have great points too. :)
Vjek has been consistently astute in his observations as well. He doesn't pay as well as Neph but it's pretty obvious that he has an intimate knowledge of game design. Now that I have hit my pocket lining quota for the day, I'd like to respond to the OP and share a more "dangerous version" that I thought of awhile back:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1656/achievements/view/page/3
It's a step further than just tracking data. It's certainly a controversial take on an achievement system. It's been nearly 2 years since I posted that and if I could do it all over again I would change the structure of the proposal and some of the examples. In any event, I would be a fan of that kind of system, especially if the information was hidden rather than tracked.
Going beyond keeping track of data to giving characters *advantages* runs the risk of encouraging endless grinding. Worst case scenario - LFM for bear-killing group - must have the 1% ursine mastery bonus gotten from killing 10 million bears.
The EQ2 system may have been good or may not have been good (yes I knew it rather well I just don't have a firm opinion on whether I *like* it) but at least it didn't require a lot of grinding - mastery came fairly easily.
On the other hand, if someone wants to kill 10 million bears for a 1% boost at bear killing.... I'm not sure we should stand in their way? I just hope there's a market for all those bear skins...
I mostly agree with you though, I don't think that "Kill X" achievements should give combat benefits. Now, a neat bearskin cloak skin that you can set as an appearance? That's cool.
Regardless, for any "achievement" earned in the game, even if it is just cosmetic/title - i want to see it be actually meaningful. Not something that half of everyone ends up with just because they happened to go to certain dungeons. It should be something that actually recognizes achievement beyond the norm.
Walk 10,000 miles - can I run those instead?
Love the ideas, would also include more useful things like
hours playing song MightyMumble
-or-
number of bar tabs unpaid
-or-
times flirted with the Queen
-and of course-
times tossed in jail for flirting with the Queen
You know - really important stat tracking that will make bards smile (and everyone else laugh at bards).
I wanted to mess around a little more with that achievement idea. Personally I don't mind the idea of players being able to acquire some form of power progression by killing the same mob type over and over. It probably doesn't sound all that appealing in and of itself but it could end up having a significant impact on a few other aspects of gameplay depending on implementation. For starters, it could add some value to "solo play." Let's go with the assumption that the vast majority of the game is going to be group-centric. If a player logs on and doesn't have the time/availability to dedicate to a group, they could instead opt to farm some lower level stuff while solo. The XP would probably be pretty bad (or non-existent if killing greys) but they could still "make progress." Even if it's just a little progress toward making them stronger vs skeletons. I think a deep achievement system (with related power progression) could help facilitate the idea of there always being something to do, even while solo.
Beyond that, I also think something like this would have a positive impact on the player driven economy. By making all skeletons drop items that can be used to further progress toward "Skeleton Mastery" it creates a supply/demand structure that is shared between all level ranges. Not every NPC race would qualify for a "mastery" ... a lizardman would ... but a lizard or basilisk? No. Those would drop crafting components. In the end I think this would be pretty awesome from an itemization perspective. Fleshed out races would have a mastery component in their loot table while the less "defined" creatures such as birds/bears/bugs would be more geared toward crafting components. All of these items would also have a vendor price that could be sold to merchants if someone would prefer to make a quick buck. I want to continue messing around with the idea but for now this is a more evolved concept of "Creature Mastery":
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1TLBqW6KpFWtUAmNuVNDUvoDpcdrHJ_KaMStXdMD2AU8/edit?usp=sharing
@Kumu -- That's what I'm talking about!
*Edit -- it should go without saying but all numbers and values are rough place holders to help illustrate the idea.
I've drunkenly elaborately posted on this subject before, and the answer is balance. People argue about gameplay and graphics and all that, and rightfully so, but in an online game performance is arguably the most important thing. Is physics. I guarantee you a huge portion of their resources are devoted to efficiency. They have to bundle network requests. Imagine 10,000 people in a game making 2 inputs per second. I think the OP has a fine idea, but better yet, posed that idea in a manner recogizing the potential negatives, and for that much respect. Big ups. It should be a super low priority and actually, could be something the make available (they wont') via an API for third parties, like wow logs.
Keno Monster said:... They have to bundle network requests. Imagine 10,000 people in a game making 2 inputs per second. ...
Brad and Co. did something like this with Vanguard, problem was it was ahead of most peoples tech.
Anytime you had a 'first', of any kind, it was recorded instantly. Meaning a screenshot was taken and the event recorded.
Ths information was linked to their website which was interactive to the game, so you could view all your 'achievements' and levels etc.
When I say it was ahead of most players tech I mean when it occurred, the picture taken and event recorded, typically it crashed the client.
This happened to me once with BotS as we cleared APW and upon killing one of the raid bosses every single member of my raid CTD'd except me. That's 39 other players. And I almost did.
Come to find out, I was the only one running a first generation SSD. Everyone else was using magnetic drives. Kind of sold me on the SSD tech right then and there.
Here is an example of what the player would see.
Another issue they had not planned on was when they had to fix or update their item DB at some point years after the games initial release.
It reset all those discovery events, and everyone was being innodated with re-discoverying everything all over again. Although by this time players rigs had mostly been updated and the CTD's were fewer.
oneADseven said:Vjek has been consistently astute in his observations as well. He doesn't pay as well as Neph but it's pretty obvious that he has an intimate knowledge of game design. Now that I have hit my pocket lining quota for the day, I'd like to respond to the OP and share a more "dangerous version" that I thought of awhile back:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/1656/achievements/view/page/3
It's a step further than just tracking data. It's certainly a controversial take on an achievement system. It's been nearly 2 years since I posted that and if I could do it all over again I would change the structure of the proposal and some of the examples. In any event, I would be a fan of that kind of system, especially if the information was hidden rather than tracked.
I would love this, having a comprehensive achievement system in the game adds so much for me. Something more than just a tracker system.