Community is everything in an MMO. I feel like FFXI is often discredited from discussions on here and have never been able to understand why. Don't get me wrong, I get that there were differences (between EQ/FFXI) in features and implementation ... but in the end, it would pass the "Game Tenets" for Pantheon eye test with flying colors. When I first read the tenets for Pantheon I was instantly hooked for that exact reason. Like many others here ... this is the end of the road for me. Pantheon is the only game I have been following. I have been through the same struggle of watching MMO's devolve into their current state and want to see a return to the good old days.
If anybody wants to get a real idea of what FFXI brought to the genre ... please check out this design documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVuqN0RBFcY
If there is a design documentary similar to that, but for EQ ... I would love to see it. I reached out to Soberdwarf to let him know about Pantheon and it turns out that he has been following the game for awhile already. There are a lot of takeaways in that video and while it's tempting to try and highlight them here, I think it would be an injustice to the content creator. The entire video should be watched from beginning to end. The majesty of FFXI can never be denied and to be quite honest, it's really offensive when I see people try to reduce it to an "Asian Arcade Game" or "Korean Grindfest" or "JARPG" -- I really don't understand the thought process behind that. It seems like people are quick to judge and stereotype. If FFXI fans are going to be considered unwelcomed "outsiders" in this community good luck converting the younger generation of gamers.
There is a reason why this is the hottest thread on the official Pantheon Reddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/aoygmj/sometimes_i_feel_like_because_i_dont_want/
This is an impression that has existed for several years now and it hasn't improved much. I have absorbed every bit of Pantheon related information I could find over the last couple years and remain convinced that this is the kind of game that I will play for more than a decade. I have always spoken highly of this community and truly believe it's one of the best I have ever seen. At the same time ... I think there is room for improvement. I would be thrilled to see the social stigma of "asian gaming" gone from this forum. If people want to debate something based on merit I am good with that. I welcome that kind of dialogue with open arms. If people want to denigrate FFXI because it was made by a "Hironobu Sakaguchi" instead of a "Brad McQuaid" -- they should be ashamed of themselves. I don't want to associate with people like that and would humbly request that people be more considerate when they post.
oneADseven said:Community is everything in an MMO. I feel like FFXI is often discredited from discussions on here and have never been able to understand why. Don't get me wrong, I get that there were differences (between EQ/FFXI) in features and implementation ... but in the end, it would pass the "Game Tenets" for Pantheon eye test with flying colors. When I first read the tenets for Pantheon I was instantly hooked for that exact reason. Like many others here ... this is the end of the road for me. Pantheon is the only game I have been following. I have been through the same struggle of watching MMO's devolve into their current state and want to see a return to the good old days.
If anybody wants to get a real idea of what FFXI brought to the genre ... please check out this design documentary: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVuqN0RBFcY
If there is a design documentary similar to that, but for EQ ... I would love to see it. I reached out to Soberdwarf to let him know about Pantheon and it turns out that he has been following the game for awhile already. There are a lot of takeaways in that video and while it's tempting to try and highlight them here, I think it would be an injustice to the content creator. The entire video should be watched from beginning to end. The majesty of FFXI can never be denied and to be quite honest, it's really offensive when I see people try to reduce it to an "Asian Arcade Game" or "Korean Grindfest" or "JARPG" -- I really don't understand the thought process behind that. It seems like people are quick to judge and stereotype. If FFXI fans are going to be considered unwelcomed "outsiders" in this community good luck converting the younger generation of gamers.
There is a reason why this is the hottest thread on the official Pantheon Reddit right now: https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/aoygmj/sometimes_i_feel_like_because_i_dont_want/
This is an impression that has existed for several years now and it hasn't improved much. I have absorbed every bit of Pantheon related information I could find over the last couple years and remain convinced that this is the kind of game that I will play for more than a decade. I have always spoken highly of this community and truly believe it's one of the best I have ever seen. At the same time ... I think there is room for improvement. I would be thrilled to see the social stigma of "asian gaming" gone from this forum. If people want to debate something based on merit I am good with that. I welcome that kind of dialogue with open arms. If people want to denigrate FFXI because it was made by a "Hironobu Sakaguchi" instead of a "Brad McQuaid" -- they should be ashamed of themselves. I don't want to associate with people like that and would humbly request that people be more considerate when they post.
So I don't go to Reddit or use social media or anything like that so I can't speak to what that "community" is saying but around these forums the only times I ever see FFXI mentioned is when someone is saying they want to see similar features from that game in Pantheon. I didn't play FFXI but I had friends who did at the time and I know people now who played it back then and along with the people that I have encountered on this forum I have honestly never really heard a bad word about the game.
You have to remember that a large portion of the current MMO market are people who come from WoW/Mobile MMO gaming so they are used to instant gratifcation and being able to pay your way to max level. Games like EQ, the Lineage series, FFXI, and now Pantheon, weren't and aren't going to be that style of game. That is not to say that you can't play and enjoy any of those games casually but don't expect to get anything handed to you.
The issue I have struggled with Bankie is that FFXI is often discredited as part of the "WoW/Mobile MMO" epidemic. I am one of the players that has cited FFXI as a game to draw inspiration from, and for the exact reason you have mentioned here. "Don't expect to get anything handed to you." That ideology is what made FFXI great but for whatever reason I see people labeling it as a "steaming pile of garbage." It's been called a hand-holding game and an arcade simulator. The reality is that it was the exact opposite of those things. The main painpoint for me is that I often find myself trying to establish common ground with some of the EQ fans on this forum and while it seems super obvious that it should exist, I feel that the core values of FFXI are often misunderstood, and then misrepresented. I'm not going to delve too much into this right now but I do appreciate your response and hope you enjoyed the video if you had time to check it out. Cheers!
First I want to say is thank you for championing FFXI and trying to carry the feel of the game over a long period of time - which was truly unique and Pantheon would no doubt benefit from adopting the best mechanics and approaches from the game.
At this point I still hope that the developers know what was good about FFXI, which mechanics would enrich Pantheon and maybe it would be time to ask the FFXI community which mechanics are meant and why. Not as a review of the FFXI time, but as a help and feedback to shape Pantheon and make it better. Because one thing can be said for sure: all here waiting for Pantheon want to get and merge the best mechanics of all MMORPGs, right? Pantheon shouldn't be a game that is a mirror image of EQ or any other game, it should be the MMORPG that takes the best out of the MMORPG era and is the only pearl left at the end and everyone can look at it and say: yes, this game is a true MMORPG worthy of its name. The same survey should then take place with EQ players. This is the only way to develop the best MMORPG by having the will to work together. This will has to come from the dev team in the first place, not necessarily degenerate into a split between EQ and FFXI players - I think we should avoid that and it surely makes sense to everyone that an FFXI player who has never played EQ can contribute little when it comes to the mechanics of EQ and vice versa! Everybody who can research on the internet will find out that FFXI is not comparable to FFXIV and the FFXI that survived today also can't be compared to the FFXI that existed back in 2008 - whoever compares like that has no idea about FFXI and is talking past what the old FFXI players here mean. If you are really interested to find out what FFXI really was, you should play on the private servers EDENXI or WINGSXI, because these servers represent the game as it is loved and meant by the FFXI players here in the forum.
The developers have officially stated at the very beginning, when the forum was created here, that FFXI is one of the games to look at and should look at, because it has revolutionized the industry and in many ways - everyone here should accept that, even those who have never played FFXI, because such a statement can only be made if at least one of the developers has played FFXI, which I assume, because otherwise you could not understand such a statement and take it seriously (which has also proven all those who do not want to listen to the FFXI players here in the forum). This is a fact that not everyone knows and many immediately go into a defensive position when someone comes along who is not from the EQ world. It's okay to have that much faith in the people here, even us old FFXI players want to do Pantheon well and help shape it. FFXI is worthy of being looked at and a game to learn from if you want to build an MMORG based on the old mechanics. Therefore, as an FFXI player, I would appreciate the opportunity to compile the mechanics that are known from FFXI once to discuss them in a DEV roundtable stream. The same can be done for EQ. Only by listening to people who have experience will something good come out in the end. I think the FFXI community here has understood that EQ is worthy and the respect for this game is great - also the other way around this should be lived and I promise everyone that you will then learn things EQ couldn't offer, but which are unique and worthwhile to have in a MMORPG.
(sry about my english .. im a german guy and my english is rusty a bit)