Forums » Pantheon Races

Lore-Inspired Racial Bonus Theory Crafting

    • 2864 posts
    January 21, 2019 12:41 PM PST

    Racial bonuses have been a pretty popular topic since the class reveals were released in 2018.  After the class reveals were shared we started seeing warriors, rogues, clerics, and wizards popping up in the community.  There was enough of a class identity there for people to latch onto and make them their own.  The next layer that will have a similar effect will be found with the racial bonuses.  As a disclaimer, everything found in the document I'm sharing was inspired by lore but none of it is official or planned.  It's not perfect but it was fun to work on and I hope it gets people thinking about what race they might want to play when the game launches, or at least have something interesting to think about until we get our hands on the official race reveals.  I would love to hear what race/class combinations people would be interested in playing!  Any/all feedback is certainly welcome, as well

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/18DJpTEde6-G7jxrZHRfFLFhRsU07_WBN8a1WyNmiJPs/edit

     


    This post was edited by oneADseven at January 21, 2019 12:41 PM PST
    • 1447 posts
    January 22, 2019 1:28 PM PST

    Awesome job. Skar all the way!

    • 240 posts
    January 23, 2019 11:25 PM PST

    Nice work and great thinking! It's a enjoyable read and it's fun to imagine the races come alive in the game.

    How about each race have a resistance to something of their homeland/starting area? That would give you nine differences already?

    The difficult thing with trait is to make it so it's beneficial to the character itself, if it's a buff to other players alone it could give a reason for players to join with that race but don't play it themselves. If you know what I mean, they'll profit by joining someone of that race and benefit from their own racial traits. 

    I especially liked your take on the influence of light, dark and daytime. Perhaps for the dark myr rainy weather or humid conditions could be an influence as wel?

    I wasn't a fan of the culinary thing for halflings, but that just might be me.

    Stun attack for ogres perhaps?

    Loved your skar trophy head idea. 

    Thanks for this lovely read!

     

    • 1332 posts
    January 28, 2019 8:13 AM PST

    Barin999 said:

    How about each race have a resistance to something of their homeland/starting area? That would give you nine differences already?

    I too would like to see each race have a unique higher resist to something that exist around them with the tradeoff that they have a lower resist to the opposite.  For the Archai in particular I have a special request in that you can pick which elemental resist you want to favor by choosing the color of the highlights that appear on your body.  Red = fire, blue = cold, green = poison, yellow = disease, white = arcane, etc.

    Along with bonuses, racial stat differences must come into play.  An Elf should not have the same strenght as an Ogre.  A Halfling should not have the same Stamina as an Archai, etc.

    • 2864 posts
    February 1, 2019 12:18 PM PST

    Thanks for the feedback!  I have made a couple adjustments along the way and still have a little more work to do.  Barin I appreciate the long/detailed feedback via PM  --  my apologies, I don't really check PM's that often on here.  There are a lot of thoughts in there and I look forward to shooting you a detailed response when able.

    • 469 posts
    February 1, 2019 1:45 PM PST

    I love this man.  I really appreciate how much thought went into these.  I know this isn't official but it is a great fix for those of us that are craving some ideas other than our own imaginaion.  The racial differences (including cosmetic) will make a big difference in my choice of class selection (not to min/max, but to help me form a full persona for my character). 

    Edit:  Maybe include different vision types similar to EQs dark vision, infravision and ultravision(?) 


    This post was edited by Darch at February 1, 2019 1:58 PM PST
    • 2864 posts
    February 2, 2019 6:53 AM PST

    Vandraad said:

    For the Archai in particular I have a special request in that you can pick which elemental resist you want to favor by choosing the color of the highlights that appear on your body.  Red = fire, blue = cold, green = poison, yellow = disease, white = arcane, etc.

    This is the same conclusion I came to based on the lore of the Archai.  Their "true birth ceremony" suggests that it would be possible so it definitely makes sense to have this as a customizable option.

    Darch said:

    I love this man.  I really appreciate how much thought went into these.  I know this isn't official but it is a great fix for those of us that are craving some ideas other than our own imaginaion.  The racial differences (including cosmetic) will make a big difference in my choice of class selection (not to min/max, but to help me form a full persona for my character). 

    I appreciate the kind words.  It might seem like there are a couple things out of place here or there but I have gone through the entire list many times over and there is a purpose behind every single ability.  Almost everything is backed up by lore but beyond that, there is also a sense of balance that ties it all together.  There were a bunch of weighted variables to work with and that really opened everything up to be a bit more flexible without having to sacrifice creativity.  Based on what you have seen, what would your race/class choice be, and why?

    The advanced vision types are a good suggestion.  Thank you!


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 2, 2019 6:54 AM PST
    • 240 posts
    February 2, 2019 11:18 AM PST

    Darch said:

    Edit:  Maybe include different vision types similar to EQs dark vision, infravision and ultravision(?) 

    This has been discussed previously in other threads, there are pro's and con's for it.

    The dev's have already stated, that players might experience "complete " darkness in the game. Expecting lightspells or other means of lightsources, is not too far fetched. This however is possibly, not race bound but most likely class bound or related to item functionality.

    One could provide vision types to different races. However, abilities that are not commonly used or have their frequent use, could be seen as poor design choices. EQ2 is a good example of that.

    To give race X dark vision, would mean;

    1: create lore behind the reason why that race has that unique dark vision (unless it's an ability from their home planet, in this case the functionality will become highly questionable due to being on a different planet)

    2: create lore relating to the environment of the starting area, so that the need for dark vision is explained 

    3: create environment and/or situations in the starting area where (native area) were this vision is required/functional.

    4: create lore relating to the environment of the starting area, so that the need for dark vision is explained 

    5: create environments and/or situations OUTSIDE the starting area, where this dark vision would still have its use. 

    6: other races would not be able to function as wel in those situations or environments. The consequences of this "defficiency" must be taken into consideration. If everything can be solved with bringing a torch, the value of the dark vision is ones again at risk. 

    7: with 9 confirmed races, one could expect to see 9 different visions..or it would again have to be explained why different races originating from different planets ended up with the same vision ability. To create 9 different visions and explain the how's and the why's and again create 9 different environments...

    Don't get me wrong, it's a interesting suggestion, to me, it would seem more complex then one would expect at first sight. Overall it seems a massive amount of work for something as 'simple' as vision.

    Still, never say never. 


    This post was edited by Barin999 at February 2, 2019 12:22 PM PST
    • 469 posts
    February 4, 2019 6:30 AM PST

    @Barin999 - This whole post is hypothetical and all of the "racial abilities" One+Seven created were based on the same criteria that would need to be referenced to identify the vision type (already existing lore... its pretty dark underwater and in caves).  EQ also had items that granted the different vision types and it REALLY enhanced the player immersion.  i.e. If you were a human, you don't go into a dark cave without a torch, and the difference between dark vision and ultravision in some areas was the visual "equivalent" of changing your screen resolution and having a more crisp visual experience; colors were a bit more distinguishable and you could see the details in the trees instead of just silhouettes at night.  And again, there were many spells and items that gave the vision bonuses so they became trivial at end game.

    add: Even a human with a torch in the dark could only see so far with a kind of orange hue to everything (like fire light in real life) compared to the dark elves with ultravision that could see in the dark as though it were daylight.  It really did make a big difference in the begining of the game... and on corpse runs at night if you didn't have torches or spells.

    add: Also, a way to simplify your concern of having different vision types for each race, you could simply name them something different, but ultimately just have 2-4 different functioning visions.  


    This post was edited by Darch at February 4, 2019 6:47 AM PST
    • 744 posts
    February 4, 2019 9:35 AM PST

    This is really cool and I appreciate the thought and effort you've put in here.  As I was reading through the document, I found that I had convinced myself (or rather, you convinced me) these were the actual racial traits - kudos.

    I'm looking for one quick clarification from the Skar abilities (please refer to the highlighted text below):

    Active:  Trophy of War  --  Gouge a body part from an NPC corpse and wear it as a trophy.  This will increase your health regeneration for a moderate duration.  For that same duration, their attack speed and casting speed is increased slightly.  (Requires a 5 second channel.)

    It's stated that the target of Trophy of War is an "NPC corpse".  However, its then stated that "their attack speed and casting speed is increased slightly".  Does this mean the corpse is buffed?  Or does this buff actually go to the caster?  Or perhaps the target NPC doesn't actually need to be a corpse?

    I like this this ability, it has a pseudo cannibalize effect which is very cool.

    • 2864 posts
    February 4, 2019 9:46 AM PST

    Thanks for catching that Nikademis.  I will update the document and change "their" to "your."  Making the traits seem believable was definitely a goal I was shooting for, so thank you!  While reading previous newsletters that revealed information on various races ... (Elves, Halflings, Skar) I noticed that everything was consistently tied into the lore.  The architecture, the character models, the class selection.  I have really enjoyed learning the lore of Pantheon and thought it was a great place to start with for theory crafting.  The more I worked on it the more I realized that it was also a great way to finish.  There are probably at least 100 different takeaways in that document that were either inspired or justified with lore.  It was both challenging and exciting to have parameters to work with that still allowed for a degree of creativity and flexibility.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 4, 2019 10:00 AM PST
    • 744 posts
    February 4, 2019 11:37 AM PST

    oneADseven said:

    Thanks for catching that Nikademis.  I will update the document and change "their" to "your."  Making the traits seem believable was definitely a goal I was shooting for, so thank you!  While reading previous newsletters that revealed information on various races ... (Elves, Halflings, Skar) I noticed that everything was consistently tied into the lore.  The architecture, the character models, the class selection.  I have really enjoyed learning the lore of Pantheon and thought it was a great place to start with for theory crafting.  The more I worked on it the more I realized that it was also a great way to finish.  There are probably at least 100 different takeaways in that document that were either inspired or justified with lore.  It was both challenging and exciting to have parameters to work with that still allowed for a degree of creativity and flexibility.

    Thanks for the clarification. It was certainly not my intention to nitpick, but it seems that one word changed the meaning of the ability quite a bit.  Nevertheless, very cool skill and a job well done all around.

    • 240 posts
    February 4, 2019 9:19 PM PST

    Darch said:

    @Barin999 - This whole post is hypothetical and all of the "racial abilities" One+Seven created were based on the same criteria that would need to be referenced to identify the vision type (already existing lore... its pretty dark underwater and in caves).  EQ also had items that granted the different vision types and it REALLY enhanced the player immersion.  i.e. If you were a human, you don't go into a dark cave without a torch, and the difference between dark vision and ultravision in some areas was the visual "equivalent" of changing your screen resolution and having a more crisp visual experience; colors were a bit more distinguishable and you could see the details in the trees instead of just silhouettes at night.  And again, there were many spells and items that gave the vision bonuses so they became trivial at end game.

    add: Even a human with a torch in the dark could only see so far with a kind of orange hue to everything (like fire light in real life) compared to the dark elves with ultravision that could see in the dark as though it were daylight.  It really did make a big difference in the begining of the game... and on corpse runs at night if you didn't have torches or spells.

    add: Also, a way to simplify your concern of having different vision types for each race, you could simply name them something different, but ultimately just have 2-4 different functioning visions.  

    It is a nice concept and it would add dept to the world and the races. With the dev's experience in EQ, they could take this suggestion and run with it. And that's a pleasant thought.

    Ending up with 2-4 different visions, does sound like a more feasable result. @Darch; Would you like to see races without any vision buffs? Or would that make them less attractive? How would you work around that, so it doesn't cast them to the side?

    • 1332 posts
    February 8, 2019 2:20 PM PST

    I would reiterate the need to have offsets such that a given bonus has a downside. 

    A higher baseline resistance to fire must mean a lower baseline resistance to cold.  You must be weaker to its opposite. Poison<->Disease, Nature<->Arcane, etc
    You want to have really good vision in the dark then be prepared to be blind (whiteout) during the day. 
    The Skar's 'Trophy of War'?  I'd say the downside would be any NPC of the same race/faction of the body part you're wearing would be immediately KOS to you for the duration of you wearing that body part.
    The Dwarven 'Imprevious'?  Higher mitigation to slash, lower mitigation to blunt and/or piercing.
    The Dark Myr 'Of the Sea'?  Higher food/drink consumption when not in a water environment and/or lower baseline resist to fire and disease.

    • 240 posts
    February 8, 2019 9:38 PM PST

    Vandraad said:

    I would reiterate the need to have offsets such that a given bonus has a downside. 

    Aye, nice examples as wel. 

    With the Skarr example, perhaps if a Skarr wears a trophy, the faction relating to that corpse will decrease over time as long as they are wearing it, or each time they equip a trophy of that faction.

    • 109 posts
    February 24, 2019 4:24 PM PST

    Barin999 said:

    Darch said:

    Edit:  Maybe include different vision types similar to EQs dark vision, infravision and ultravision(?) 

    One could provide vision types to different races. However, abilities that are not commonly used or have their frequent use, could be seen as poor design choices. EQ2 is a good example of that.

    To give race X dark vision, would mean;

    1: create lore behind the reason why that race has that unique dark vision (unless it's an ability from their home planet, in this case the functionality will become highly questionable due to being on a different planet)

     

    Im not sure if it would really be necessary to have to create lore for vision any more than explaining an elf's pointy ear origin. Adding the lore is not a bad idea don't take me wrong. however for the purpose of game inplementation not necessary. Adding vision to some races, and other perks such as foraging, hiding and such where never gamebreaking attributes to EQ if I recall correctly.

     

    • 51 posts
    April 13, 2019 11:32 AM PDT

    Well abilities for dwarfs definitely should include: passives like "Money is power" - your physical and mental saves improve based on the ammount of gold that you possess; and "Stoneskin" - when you are hit in melee you have x% chance to increase your Armor by y.

    Elves should have passive to increase crit chance and the ability to summon some creature (or a tree that would provide some bonuses).

    Gnomes should do more spell dmg and generate less hate/threat OR have a chance to turn invisible/turn into ethereal form making them dodge attacks and spells for short time.

    Ogres should be able to wield usually 2H weapons with one hand (perhaps with some downsides).

    Skars should "perform better" when afflicted by negative status effects.

     

    • 1332 posts
    April 16, 2019 11:29 AM PDT

    Hegenox said:

    Well abilities for dwarfs definitely should include: passives like "Money is power" - your physical and mental saves improve based on the ammount of gold that you possess; and "Stoneskin" - when you are hit in melee you have x% chance to increase your Armor by y.

    Elves should have passive to increase crit chance and the ability to summon some creature (or a tree that would provide some bonuses).

    Gnomes should do more spell dmg and generate less hate/threat OR have a chance to turn invisible/turn into ethereal form making them dodge attacks and spells for short time.

    Ogres should be able to wield usually 2H weapons with one hand (perhaps with some downsides).

    Skars should "perform better" when afflicted by negative status effects.

    I'm curious about your reasoning behind why you think these bonuses should be applied to those particular races.

    • 225 posts
    April 17, 2019 2:28 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    Racial bonuses have been a pretty popular topic since the class reveals were released in 2018.  After the class reveals were shared we started seeing warriors, rogues, clerics, and wizards popping up in the community.  There was enough of a class identity there for people to latch onto and make them their own.  The next layer that will have a similar effect will be found with the racial bonuses.  As a disclaimer, everything found in the document I'm sharing was inspired by lore but none of it is official or planned.  It's not perfect but it was fun to work on and I hope it gets people thinking about what race they might want to play when the game launches, or at least have something interesting to think about until we get our hands on the official race reveals.  I would love to hear what race/class combinations people would be interested in playing!  Any/all feedback is certainly welcome, as well

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/18DJpTEde6-G7jxrZHRfFLFhRsU07_WBN8a1WyNmiJPs/edit

     

    I enjoyed reading your ideas. I really like many of them. I feel there are different schools of thoughts about racial bonuses. On one hand, there are people that want those racial bonuses to have very low impact on how the class is played and feel. And on the other hand, folks that would prefer racial bonuses to make a bigger difference in the gameplay, so that two characters of the same class but from different races would be played slightly differently. This required more design efforts and balance work. 

    I do not have a preference as long as the game is fun, balanced, challenging and rewarding. 

    Before reading your ideas, I picture Skars having some kind of cannibal abilities (out of combat health regen, eating dead enemies?), Ogres could have body paint ability with the blood of their victims. Halfing will get move speed, Gnome mana restoration at the cost of some of their health? 

    Anyway, thanks for sharing your ideas with us!