Forums » The Enchanter

Charmed Mobs

    • 477 posts
    August 10, 2018 4:10 AM PDT

    So will charmed mobs have 100% of the original mob stats? or will we see reduces stats to balance it just a tiny bit? 

    Did you play an Enchanter in EQ and did you charm a lot?

    How would you balance it? 

    We hear about the risk and reward, but when a mob is perma charmed. Where is the risk? 

    Could a Raw stat reduction on the mob be a way to balance it? Like a flat 50% reduction compared to a normal uncharmed version of the mob?

    Could we lower the damage so it cant dish out anyway near what we saw back in EQ? - Then the Enchanter him self have to do some damage to?

    Personally i would hate to see a 5 man Enchanter grp with a cleric to heal the OP pets.. 

    - Please comment with your experiance from other game like EQ/Vanguard/EQ2, when charmimg mobs and the mekanic in general. Was it to strong? Was it balanced ok? What do you think?


    This post was edited by BamBam at August 10, 2018 4:11 AM PDT
    • 1653 posts
    August 10, 2018 4:21 AM PDT

    Clearly OP in eq. My guess would be the enchanter and the charmed mob both have reduced stats, one because he is under a blurry control, the other because he must hold his mind over the creature.

     

    If none, well it will be the standard method for big dps groups, replacing Dps by enchanters :/ .

    • 477 posts
    August 10, 2018 4:54 AM PDT

    @MauvaisOeil 

    I could see that, it must take a lot of mental focus, to keep controlling another being. Maybe the Enchanter should not be abel to use any ability connected to Cc while charming a npc.

    Maybe the charmed mob should not be allowed to be buffed at all. Like atk speed buff, ac, hp, stats, resist and such. This will make it way more easy to balance out.

     


    This post was edited by BamBam at August 10, 2018 4:56 AM PDT
    • 511 posts
    August 10, 2018 6:09 AM PDT

    I have no problem with charming if there is a significant chance of charm breaking and the pet eating the former master.

    I'm curious what EQ era you're thinking of when you say enchanter charming was OP?  My recollection was it was plenty risky in the early expansions. Yes, there were times when it was OP (early PoP) but it was fixed with patches.  Perhaps later AA's trivialized the risk?   Any sort of permanent charm is definitely OP.

    Would you say that nec/dru/enc charms are OP in P99?   Seems that a lot of druids solo levels 50-60ish in the Permafrost bear pit.  Necs especially like to hit Howling Stones in that same level range and HS is quite popular with the encs.

    It may just be my perception but it seems like there are far more players soloing in P99 endgame zones.  I partially blame high-end players who are streaming their solo adventures.  It's one thing for it to be technically possible but another thing altogether for someone to show everyone exactly how, where and reveal every little trick.  So we go from "a small group of players might figure it out" to assuming that "any discovered technique will be instantly spread like wildfire across all servers".   

    Soloing in P99 endgame zones isn't new.  We've been seeing solo epic shaman on the P99 server for years, especially so once they had torpor.  Solo shammys in PoM are a regular thing whereas most enchs would need a cleric to duo.

    You say you'd hate to see a group of 5 enchs with charmed pets and a healer.  If it's implemented correctly by the devs, that should be a very high risk endeavour and therefore should yield high gain if handled well by the players.   Bad breaks in a group with 5 charmed pets could quickly turn to disaster.

    If you nerf pets and reduce the risk, you've taken much of the appeal of playing a charm-capable class and removed much of the artistry/challenge.  I'm not saying I want or expect to see a lot of solo charmers in Pantheon, but a well-played charm class in my group should substantially increase both risk and reward.   Strip away the risk and you've turned the enc into a weak mage/summoner.

     

    • 11 posts
    August 10, 2018 6:12 AM PDT

    Leave it similiar to EQ...i was a shaman and saw lots of enchanters with charm pets...could not care less.  It is a dangerous game they play and i saw allot of them get messed up real good.

    The best thing ever is watching a group have a charmed pet and the enchanter dies...lol lol now the charmed and buffed pet turns and wtf pwns the party hahahaha  fun ****.

    It takes a great deal of skill to control the pet and do your enchanter duties as well...

    As for how powerful the charms are...my guess is the permanent charm will only work on lower level npcs(in comparison to ench level)....the more powerful the npc (in comparison to the ench) the less chance if any it will be permanent but even if it is who cares it is fun to watch!

    As a shaman i loved buffing the **** out of a charm knowing boy if that ench dies whoever is near that pet is soooo fubared.  hahahaha

    Kridak

     

     

    • 477 posts
    August 10, 2018 7:02 AM PDT

    @Celandor I am particually talking about the perma charm mekanic. A grp of 5 Enchanters all with perma pets and a cleric. - This has to be OP AF! 

    Information are way more easy to get acces to now days. If there is a mekanic that can be exploided, players will learn this mekanic VERY fast. and woop ti doo everyone is doing it. It will hurt the overall enjoyment of the game for many players. (this is what we should try to avoid)
     
    This is the nature of Twitch.tv, dedicated gaming sites, Social media, Youtube and so on. 
    You cant hide you tricks as you could 15 years ago, its gna get out there - Fast. So VR as a developer needs to limit and balance mekanics way better compared to the good old days.

    Look at Neverwinter, that game went south faster than you could say Release date.. why? Because of exploids of in game mekanic.

    I am not sayin VR should nearf charm to the ground and make it useless, i say they should find a balance to it. So a charmed pet wont do the same dps as 2-3 players as we saw in EQ - Thats just wrong. 
    On top of this Enchanters in Pantheon will actually get an arsenal of dd spells, that they can use. In EQ they rly did not have any dd that was worth mentioning, at least at the early days. 

    And i get many Enchanters look forward to charming pets and go have fun with their healer mate, i too am going to try this. But there has to be limits to the fun.

    Modern players are also just better now, than years ago. Where everything was new and fresh to us all. Almost everyone here have years of experiance playing games, and can easily put 2 and 2 together and figuer things out that was considered "hard" back then. Factores like this needs to be taken into account. Pantheon will be a modern game, hopefully also catered to modern gamers. 


    This post was edited by BamBam at August 10, 2018 7:29 AM PDT
    • 82 posts
    August 10, 2018 8:06 AM PDT

    I never played EQ, and in EQ2 I was an illusionist, so I had a permapet I solo-rofl stomped nameds with.

    How did the charm break mechanic work in various games? Is there a chance at every second, at every attack, at every damage taken, ...?

    • 1653 posts
    August 10, 2018 8:12 AM PDT

    I simply find disturbing that peoples shrug off the insane disparity between classes in the solo genre, in a group centric game. I'm not saying no one should be able to solo, just that it should be a very unrewarding game mode and not something spells are aiming you toward. I also fear the DPS of an added charmed pet will become a norm and make the enchanter a double role class : Control and high DPS at the same time.

     

    Over that I find the charm spell line interesting, way more than the pseudo pet enchanter had in EQ1 that never really worked right, I'm just wondering "how much will it be a DPS/TANK" pet at the same time. I was, for this reason, really favoring temporary charms with longer cooldowns than duration, to make it a "cooldown" of control + DPS and not a permant one. That's why the "permanent pet" epic spell is to me, a great risk of making the game Pantheon : Rise of the Enchanter, even if my guess is it will be a level max epic spell, making it useless for "xp grind" until the lvl cap increases.

    • 795 posts
    August 10, 2018 8:34 AM PDT

    So If people are saying enchanters are tough to solo with...you aren't that good at it then. An enchanter with Jboots and certain researched skills, like root, is dsigusting. All you need after that is placement. If you position yourself correctly you should never get hit by your mob and if you keep your root up on the mob you aggro then the only thing coming to you is your pet when it breaks.  Also, their lvl 1 mez spell worked up to lvl 55... Never had a problem soloing with an enchanter at all..and the pet is busted. Don't need a healer either when you can break charm, mez  and memory blur to allow the mob to regain health quite quickly. Charm was OP, especially in classic when it would basically subsitute for like 4 melee dps.

    Anyways, with the perm charm that makes life way easier with no risk at all for an enchanter. I pray they nerf the crap out of the pet that they charm, because if a mob is suppose to be touh for a group to handle, then an enchanter wielding it around is going to be disgusting.

    I can also see charm only working on mobs that are like 5 lvls less your current level, or 10. If dungeons have a huge level range it shouldn't be hard for enchanters to get a pet then go to their camp.

     

    • 477 posts
    August 10, 2018 8:53 AM PDT

    @Watemper 

    Thanks for your "expert" insight on the old enchanter. 

    Lets hope we get a balanced version for release!

    • 103 posts
    August 10, 2018 2:33 PM PDT

    Currently on EQ TLP servers in early content, Enchanters are the center of the entire gaming world. The charm pet outlcasses 2-3 DPS classes combined, and is a superior tank to any tank class. The supposed downside is risk, but Enchanters can simply stun/mez pets on charm break, remez, and keep going. An efficient group in Classic through PoP is an Enchanter with charm pet, a Cleric to CH the charm pet, any class with taunt to safely break mezzes, a puller willing to chain pull, and then 2 other players who need xp. Add a 2nd or 3rd Enchanter...even better.

    The issue isn't really that the charm pet is so good, or that Enchanters can CC multiple mobs, it's the fact they can do both at the same time. A single class providing the best tank, the best dps and the best CC all at once is the issue.

    Just because charm is horribly unbalanced in EQ doesn't mean it has to be horribly unbalanced in Pantheon. It should be rather trivial to make it so a single Enchanter can't control a powerful pet and be elite CC at the same time just by tweaking mana usage and regen.    

    • 1653 posts
    August 10, 2018 5:08 PM PDT

    nscheffel said:

    Currently on EQ TLP servers in early content, Enchanters are the center of the entire gaming world. The charm pet outlcasses 2-3 DPS classes combined, and is a superior tank to any tank class. The supposed downside is risk, but Enchanters can simply stun/mez pets on charm break, remez, and keep going. An efficient group in Classic through PoP is an Enchanter with charm pet, a Cleric to CH the charm pet, any class with taunt to safely break mezzes, a puller willing to chain pull, and then 2 other players who need xp. Add a 2nd or 3rd Enchanter...even better.

    The issue isn't really that the charm pet is so good, or that Enchanters can CC multiple mobs, it's the fact they can do both at the same time. A single class providing the best tank, the best dps and the best CC all at once is the issue.

    Just because charm is horribly unbalanced in EQ doesn't mean it has to be horribly unbalanced in Pantheon. It should be rather trivial to make it so a single Enchanter can't control a powerful pet and be elite CC at the same time just by tweaking mana usage and regen.    

     

    I think the pet is eating 50% of exp if he does 50% damage at least ? Maybe that gives a reason for additionnal dps to be here.

     

    However one of my guess for the summoner's spell line is to allow an enchanter to have a charmed pet in any area, even dungeons where the enemy's type could not be charmed. By doing so, an enchanter's pet would be a standard for the enchanter's dps.

    • 367 posts
    August 11, 2018 12:45 AM PDT

    I've played Mind Control/Enchanter type classes in just about every game. In EQ1 I spent 7 years on a single character, a Dark Elf Enchanter which is partly reason for the cringy forum name. The trick really comes down to the power structure of the mobs to players. DAoC had Sorcerer which allowed the Sorcerer to simply perma charm anything up to their level. Even level content was strong enough to kill a caster fairly quickly. Since then games like EQ2 with the Coercer which allowed for later iterations to permanently charm a target limited you because it only worked on single point mobs whereas the number of points dictated the strength of that mob or if they were in a group. It was a challenge indicator.

    For this reason, it could be that there's different variations of strength regarding the mobs in Pantheon. I thought about this when I saw that Summoners had two summon creature spells which summoned a creature/mob from the zone to them. 

    • Summon Creature: You summon a random, hostile creature from somewhere within Terminus which must be Charmed by an Enchanter to be utilized in combat. The type and level of the summoned creature is governed by your level. Creatures summoned in this way do not provide experience when killed.
    • Summon Behemoth: Epic Ability. Summoners can evolve their Summon Creature ability into Summon Behemoth, allowing them to conjure various creatures of great might. These creatures are hostile and must be Dire Charmed by an Enchanter to be useable in combat. Creatures summoned in this way cannot be permanently charmed and do not provide experience when killed.

    This could mean power dynamics regarding mobs within the zone.

    Now, Charm itself is something that can be extremely risky in a setting. If you know how to use your tools well and master the class, you can do so with little risk. However, the idea of permanent charm is a good one, although in the current power parity between mob and player, this can be problematic. 

    I personally feel that when a mob is charmed, it loses a portion of its ferocity. Meaning that it operates at a 75% power capability. Considering the permanent charm option is a rare chance and requires an epic level ability advancement at much later levels, I don't see this being an issue until those later levels. However, when charm eventually holds long enough to tick over to permanent status, the ferocity should drop even further to 50% of their normal power. Now that percentage can be adjusted for balance. It could be 80% and 60% respectively, it all depends.

    Levels should not dictate this because it creates an issue with never knowing what is the correct level and just cheeses the mechanic. It was also why Dire Charm AA in EQ being capped at 46 was fine until PoP. Thats when they had to add level 46 fodder at zone in for Dire Charm for Enchanters. It was a terrible idea. I pleaded with the developers at the time to manipulate how it works so that it decreases the overall power of the mob to a percentage instead of a hard level range, that way the skill isn't completely useless in later expansions. Of course the suggestion was ignored. 

    By doing this via a power distribution, they could either do a flat rate, health, resources and attributes as well as attack values, or they could do some but not others. I was thinking this over in how they can string it to an existing system. Certain mobs have a level variance. That variance is possibly based on a formula. That formula can then dictate power structure by aligning it with a mob at 75% the level of its current level. This means that let's say a level 40 mob is charmed. When charmed it operates at 75% its power, so the attributes are adjusted to the formula used for a level 30. 

    The thing about charm in Pantheon is how they implement the AI once in a charmed state. If they allow group members to use a shared beta-nuetral faction tag for instance, the mob, if a caster and has buffs could possibly buff the group. Or a healer pet could heal. You also have archer mobs as pets, or a rogue mob as a pet. The options are there with the updated AI down the road including disposition system, and how mobs now have much more complicated toolkits compared to EQ1. This will make having a charmed pet fun regardless of how strong it is and why Enchanters can be fine with a 75-80% reduction at charm and a 50-60% reduction at permanent charm.

    Here's my theory. Mobs in the game when charmed will operate at a slightly reduced power curve. When permanently charmed, even less so. However, when charmed through the Summoner's Summon Creature or Behemoth, because they can't be permanently charmed (I believe it was left out in error in that the lesser form also cannot be permanently charmed) they will retain their power for the duration of the charm. This creates a more balanced power curve. While pulling a mob out of the fight it's a form of CC so there should be a reduced power curve. However the Summoner is pulling a mob into the fight adding risk, that mob should retain the power curve but without being able to be controlled permanently. 

    There are a lot of ways to go about this and I have faith in their design and remain hopeful. While I don't want to see something like this be insanely powerful, at the same time I more so, don't wish to see it gimped. 


    This post was edited by Janus at August 11, 2018 1:55 AM PDT
    • 477 posts
    August 11, 2018 11:36 AM PDT
    @Darkintellect thanks for your insights!

    I too am hoping we land in the sweet spot area, where charming a mob will be rewarding and wanted. But still with in limits. I would be sad as a rogue to see a charmed rogue pet backstab for more damage then I would be able to, same goes for healing, tanking and so on. The strongest members of a party should be another party member. Not a npc on steroids :)
    • 156 posts
    August 12, 2018 12:41 AM PDT

    I hope enchanters can't perma-charm named mobs. Would suck to try and camp " Jim Bob the Orc Captain " to who drops a cool sword and instead some enchanter has perma charmed it and charges people to have a chance at fighting it.

    • 1 posts
    August 12, 2018 1:13 PM PDT

    I'd prefer to see charm as an alternative short-term CC mechanic.  I'd like to see unmezzable mobs that would need to be charmed - but then charm should only last the duration of an average fight, and shouldn't be able to be re-applied to the same mob for some period of time, and cause charm to be on cooldown after the charm breaks. I do feel like the mob should be debuffed (or at least slowed) during that timeframe. That might be sufficient to "balance" it out a bit, but I could also see an increased cast time for all of your other spells while you are charming. It feels like they also shouldn't be able to take aggro from anything they are on a social factionw ith.

    I never really liked charming in a group, because I liked managing the larger pulls... But when we did charm in a group setting, there was typically a pally around to stun or others to root while i got charm back under control, and things died quite quickly; it did feel unbalancing. I did charm kiting for a couple of levels in my high 50s just to get used to it for when i needed it in a group - and i defintely felt like i shouldn't be able to solo like that.

    • 795 posts
    August 15, 2018 2:36 PM PDT

    LucasBlackstone said:

    I hope enchanters can't perma-charm named mobs. Would suck to try and camp " Jim Bob the Orc Captain " to who drops a cool sword and instead some enchanter has perma charmed it and charges people to have a chance at fighting it.

    yeah, I never even thought about the named mobs being perma charmed. That could pose a huge problem. I hope we get cancel magic or something along those lines to either stop that from happening, or by default every single named mob is immuned to charm...even lvl 5 ones. 

     

    But yea, the charm pet shouldn't be as powerful and does more dps than the dps classes. If the enchanter is a CC master, then fine, but don't let the enchanter be the dps master also like in EQ, for a long while.

    Additionally, I was wondering if the summoner summoning a mob in the zone to the enchanter is just a copy of a mob, or an actual mob. If that is the case then why pull. espically in raids, when the summoner can just summon the mobs to them. Who needs exp in a raid when you are maxed level anyways. Could pose as a problem if that's the case. 

     

    Will have to see.

    • 80 posts
    August 15, 2018 8:44 PM PDT

    Watemper said:

    LucasBlackstone said:

    I hope enchanters can't perma-charm named mobs. Would suck to try and camp " Jim Bob the Orc Captain " to who drops a cool sword and instead some enchanter has perma charmed it and charges people to have a chance at fighting it.

    yeah, I never even thought about the named mobs being perma charmed. That could pose a huge problem. I hope we get cancel magic or something along those lines to either stop that from happening, or by default every single named mob is immuned to charm...even lvl 5 ones. 

     

    But yea, the charm pet shouldn't be as powerful and does more dps than the dps classes. If the enchanter is a CC master, then fine, but don't let the enchanter be the dps master also like in EQ, for a long while.

    Additionally, I was wondering if the summoner summoning a mob in the zone to the enchanter is just a copy of a mob, or an actual mob. If that is the case then why pull. espically in raids, when the summoner can just summon the mobs to them. Who needs exp in a raid when you are maxed level anyways. Could pose as a problem if that's the case. 

     

    Will have to see.

     

    Summon Creature

    You summon a random, hostile creature from somewhere within Terminus which must be Charmed by an Enchanter to be utilized in combat. The type and level of the summoned creature is governed by your level. Creatures summoned in this way do not provide experience when killed.

    Summon Behemoth

    Epic Ability. Summoners can evolve their Summon Creature ability into Summon Behemoth, allowing them to conjure various creatures of great might. These creatures are hostile and must be Dire Charmed by an Enchanter to be useable in combat. Creatures summoned in this way cannot be permanently charmed and do not provide experience when killed.

    • 795 posts
    August 16, 2018 9:25 AM PDT

    Ezrael said:

    Watemper said:

    LucasBlackstone said:

    I hope enchanters can't perma-charm named mobs. Would suck to try and camp " Jim Bob the Orc Captain " to who drops a cool sword and instead some enchanter has perma charmed it and charges people to have a chance at fighting it.

    yeah, I never even thought about the named mobs being perma charmed. That could pose a huge problem. I hope we get cancel magic or something along those lines to either stop that from happening, or by default every single named mob is immuned to charm...even lvl 5 ones. 

     

    But yea, the charm pet shouldn't be as powerful and does more dps than the dps classes. If the enchanter is a CC master, then fine, but don't let the enchanter be the dps master also like in EQ, for a long while.

    Additionally, I was wondering if the summoner summoning a mob in the zone to the enchanter is just a copy of a mob, or an actual mob. If that is the case then why pull. espically in raids, when the summoner can just summon the mobs to them. Who needs exp in a raid when you are maxed level anyways. Could pose as a problem if that's the case. 

     

    Will have to see.

     

    Summon Creature

    You summon a random, hostile creature from somewhere within Terminus which must be Charmed by an Enchanter to be utilized in combat. The type and level of the summoned creature is governed by your level. Creatures summoned in this way do not provide experience when killed.

    Summon Behemoth

    Epic Ability. Summoners can evolve their Summon Creature ability into Summon Behemoth, allowing them to conjure various creatures of great might. These creatures are hostile and must be Dire Charmed by an Enchanter to be useable in combat. Creatures summoned in this way cannot be permanently charmed and do not provide experience when killed.

     

    Yea I actually read the definition on Summon Creature, instead of going off other definitions people were saying and see the that it is somewhere in terminus. Since that is the case it will probably just be a copy of the mob. Still..charm looks op, like always.

    • 54 posts
    August 21, 2018 4:58 AM PDT

    BamBam said:

    So will charmed mobs have 100% of the original mob stats? or will we see reduces stats to balance it just a tiny bit? 

    Did you play an Enchanter in EQ and did you charm a lot?

    How would you balance it? 

    We hear about the risk and reward, but when a mob is perma charmed. Where is the risk? 

    Could a Raw stat reduction on the mob be a way to balance it? Like a flat 50% reduction compared to a normal uncharmed version of the mob?

    Could we lower the damage so it cant dish out anyway near what we saw back in EQ? - Then the Enchanter him self have to do some damage to?

    Personally i would hate to see a 5 man Enchanter grp with a cleric to heal the OP pets.. 

    - Please comment with your experiance from other game like EQ/Vanguard/EQ2, when charmimg mobs and the mekanic in general. Was it to strong? Was it balanced ok? What do you think?

    10 years EXP ENC from EQ1/P99/Live 

     

    Question 1 : Yes Charmed mob should keep their original stats , also having a big rock lvl 50 vs a bat lvl 50 i expext to see that the rock has more MR (like in EQ don't ******* charm a statue rock or whatever). Higher the MR the mob have , the bigger chance you break your pet B4 your duration. Also , in EQ you can give your gear , if your pet die during the charm , you loose your item. Pet proc , Pet haste (tola robe) Minus mr set - 50 MR is the total set in EQ , Adamandite band , Spiked Shopulderpad... Pet gearing is really fun , but on pet break he can twice break your face faster !

    I've died and died tons of times , ive lost tons tons of pet sets , i've won combat because I had pet set , I've lost combat because I had pet set , IT IS FUN.

    RISK IS THERE. I had pet on p99 that had 30k gear , some players have less. If my pet die , i loose all , I know the risk , but the reward that comes from it is insane.

     

    Question 2 : ehh , The way I see enc is if they don't charm they should reroll their class

    Question 3: Balance in EQ is there there is already there. Mecanics that prevent us ENC to down many many boss and named.

    - Mob that DEBUFF, In EQ some named/boss will Annul Magic and higher wich means , they will AEO Mass dispel Everyone Wich mean ... PET BREAK.

    Pet break on a Named/Boss = Death ENC

    - Boss that have too many hp. In Eq , my charm last 7min FULL DURATON I can tank and solo a Named/Boss but I have 7 Min , IF IF no pet break , because IF pet break i'm death. Most of the time on my Solo Artist kills , 7 minutes wasnout enough for 1 pet hasted to down a boss == Death ENC

    - Mob that summon. You can't flee from your pet if it break , he summon you , you deal with it or you die. a Good ENC in EQ if he charm a mob that SUMMON he will stand by his pet always and never sit. Pet break if he is sti MAX Hit QUAD , if your FAR you get summon wich is EXTRA hits. 

    To be honest .... look at the solo artist kill from p99 Everquest , ENC can do lots of kills that other class can't BUT in revenge monk and others class can solo things that ENC can't.

    Wich is why EverQuest is Great. Everyone is the best , at what they do. Meaning , every class are able to do different stuff that other class can't AND IT'S GREAT ! don't try to RUIN THIS. Don't try to make Pantheon a Modern MMO where everything is balanced beetween each class for 1v1 **** THAT.

    ENC is Broken ? You know what HELL YA they are and you know what , im death 50% of my times that the balance.

    TLDR , Balance is already there in EQ , just play ENC in EQ.

     

    Question 4 : Dire Charm in EQ is also a Permnant Charm but there is a level restriction to it. Permnant Charm are uses in low lvl zones when you want to farm crap. You shouln't Dire Charm a mob that is max level and keep it permnant. Pet break randomly force the ENC to mez and Stun , it force the enc to stay on his toes at all times. I am 99% sure Dire Charm in Pantheon will be like in EQ , there will be a level restriction on it , and Charm that break could be uses against higher level mob, Dire charm low lvl mob.

     

    Question 5 : Why you want to debuff  the mob ? make no sense. in EQ all raid zones mobs are too high to be charmed. ENC cannot charm in 100% of the zone of the game. make no sense to me. I don't see your concern and why you are scare. Are you scare that ENC will do good damage ? in EQ , some zones they are number 1 DPS along with monk and rogue , some zone last dps with cleric. it's all dpeend the zone you fight in.

     

    I don't know what you guy want from ENC....

    I want my EQ ENC Reskin in Pantheon and it's a great start Thanks

     

     

     

     

     

    • 367 posts
    August 21, 2018 6:54 AM PDT

    @Nore 

    I'm not sure you've been following anything about the Enchanter in Pantheon. With that said, they will have a passive ability called Mental Terraformer at epic tiers that gives a chance for charm each tick to permanently charm it. No Dire Charm isn't a level restriction as that idea was the most ridiculous thing I ever saw when they put it in. It was fine in Luclin grinding AA's in zones like Velks Lab but in PoP content, they had to add junk level 46 NPC's at one in. After that expansion they gave up on that aspect of it. What they should have done was tune the reduction in power of mobs for each expansion so the spell could still be used but where you don't have a pet that is more powerful than say, a mages. In Pantheon, Dire Charm is simply an epic variation of regular Charm that has a decreased resist chance and it's own additional effect of giving a slight chance to permanently charm your target. That chance to be a permanent charm from Dire Charm also stacks with Mental Terraformer.

    For these reasons it was mentioned in the Q&A that as of now they're looking at reducing the values and power of a charmed target. That reduction will be lessoned from Dire Charm but what will likely happen is when it's permanently charmed, it will be reduced in power even more than the other two variations. When you have a permanently charmed target anyway, you can still use Shock and Awe which is a better method to charm in a group setting from the looks of it.


    This post was edited by Janus at August 21, 2018 6:57 AM PDT
    • 54 posts
    August 21, 2018 7:49 AM PDT

    Darkintellect said:

    @Nore 

    I'm not sure you've been following anything about the Enchanter in Pantheon. With that said, they will have a passive ability called Mental Terraformer at epic tiers that gives a chance for charm each tick to permanently charm it. No Dire Charm isn't a level restriction as that idea was the most ridiculous thing I ever saw when they put it in. It was fine in Luclin grinding AA's in zones like Velks Lab but in PoP content, they had to add junk level 46 NPC's at one in. After that expansion they gave up on that aspect of it. What they should have done was tune the reduction in power of mobs for each expansion so the spell could still be used but where you don't have a pet that is more powerful than say, a mages. In Pantheon, Dire Charm is simply an epic variation of regular Charm that has a decreased resist chance and it's own additional effect of giving a slight chance to permanently charm your target. That chance to be a permanent charm from Dire Charm also stacks with Mental Terraformer.

    For these reasons it was mentioned in the Q&A that as of now they're looking at reducing the values and power of a charmed target. That reduction will be lessoned from Dire Charm but what will likely happen is when it's permanently charmed, it will be reduced in power even more than the other two variations. When you have a permanently charmed target anyway, you can still use Shock and Awe which is a better method to charm in a group setting from the looks of it.

    I know I am aware of it and sorry my english it is not my main language.

    We shall see , they should have their reason to do it that way.

    Unfortunatly , a permanant charm seem like a bad idea to me anyway... I cannot agree with all decicions , so far I like what I See with ENC but if the class provide no danger , and play it no brainer , No danger , no pet break. I will fall asleep , then I will go play EQ because I have actions and pet break and mob that 3 shot me. 

    To me , EverQuest Classic is Perfect , the Design is perfect and the game mecanics also. 

    Why change a good receipt ?

    Pantheon uses tons of stuff from EverQuest , don't deny it , mostly all I see is from EQ and IT'S GREAT. 

    Permanant charm then making the charm pet deal less damage ? Seriously ? So basicly you want ENC to do like a pet damage from a necro or any other pet but by charming ?

    That's what i like for EQ , Every class is Unique , Every Class can do stuff that others can't do. 

    It is why 20 years later I can still play Eq , plays a different class and have a toally DIFFERENT experience.

    Balancing everything for 1v1 , making sure that all classes can do the same content ... IDK , IN EQ , if you want to go EXP in Overthere don't cry there is bard , if you go chardok they might be AEO group , if you go to OOT there might be druid quad kiting.... Classes fight and grind at different location in regard of their class strenght. I kind of like that , playing diffrent classes give you a totaly difference experience in the game , exploration and such.

    What would happens if charm from ENC do the same damage has a Necro pet ?

    ENC will be necro but with mez and buff ?

    Every class at the final will be the same , with some specefic buffs ?

    People don't Realize in Eq when you charm a mob that quad of 900 when you have 6k hp , the danger it represent ?

    Do you understand the danger it represent ?

    Did you ever play ENC not lvl 39 but max lvl with a max lvl pet geared and hasted + boon of the garou + tola robe ?

    If you did , You know the danger of it , you know it can wipe your entirer party on a pet break if you get interupt , or you stand too near from your pet.

    Reading all the concern from everyone , I feel NON-Enchanter players wants ENC to sit and buff and do nothing but mez. 

    I am still happy and can't wait to roll ENC in patheon , but I don't deny I have a deception knowing there will be a permanant charm. I scare the game to go EZ mode with that kind of tool. EZ game make me asleep like when I watch Netflix.

    I need ACTION , I need pet break

    Nahilu

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Nore at August 21, 2018 8:53 AM PDT
    • 2476 posts
    August 21, 2018 3:32 PM PDT

    The primary concern is that Enchanters are not part of the DPS role, they are part of the (the only currently) CC role of the quaternity with amazing & unique group utility as well. Being able to charm mobs for massive DPS regardless of risk would be unbalanced and far too OP, not to mention no other classes in the game can fulfill the roles of others with anything close to parity.

     

    Players will always figure out how to minimize risks to the point where the skill becomes low risk for high reward.

    • 367 posts
    August 21, 2018 6:31 PM PDT

    @Iksar

     

    "Players will always figure out how to minimize risks to the point where the skill becomes low risk for high reward."

    "Being able to charm mobs for massive DPS regardless of risk would be unbalanced and far too OP"

    Main points and well said. Regardless of the risk, it's a very thin line. Either the risk can be mitigated or it's too dangerous to be effectively used in combat over other tools that would then do a better job like Shock & Awe.

    • 54 posts
    August 22, 2018 7:43 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    The primary concern is that Enchanters are not part of the DPS role, they are part of the (the only currently) CC role of the quaternity with amazing & unique group utility as well. Being able to charm mobs for massive DPS regardless of risk would be unbalanced and far too OP, not to mention no other classes in the game can fulfill the roles of others with anything close to parity.

     

    Players will always figure out how to minimize risks to the point where the skill becomes low risk for high reward.

    I agreed , in EverQuest ENC are not primary role DPS , eventhough they can do a lot of Damage.

    In raid zone , there is nothing to charm mostly , charm is specially used for xp grind.

    Also, CHARM is a CC for your information wich is why ENC do have Charm.

    I am a really skilled ENC with very poor english ... You can find me in the Solo Artist thread from project 1999 wich is 0.001 % of the ENC that have played EverQuest.

    Anyway Shock of Awe seem like to be the resolution in our problems , as long they don't decrease the damage from a breakable charm.

    IMO , they should decrease the damage from Charmed Pet that are PERMANANT , but the pets that can break and rip your face should keep his damage.