Forums » The Enchanter

Enchanter abilities - finally released!

    • 82 posts
    August 8, 2018 9:43 AM PDT

    What do you think of the abilities list released on the Enchanter class page?

    • What's your favorite?
    • What would you rather replace and add instead?
    • Comment on the abilities and playstyles that you think might come out of them!

    This post was edited by Land at August 8, 2018 9:44 AM PDT
    • 82 posts
    August 8, 2018 9:47 AM PDT

    All I have to say is, I don't know who this Squee is, but I want to meet so I can upgrade the random group illusion.

    Also, I really think the class looks like a great mix of abilities that may be useful for combat utility and non-combat fun. Super excited now.

    • 477 posts
    August 8, 2018 9:58 AM PDT

    I think the Charm mekanic will be very strong, maybe too strong in many situations and grps. Especially when the enchanter get a permant cham in, after a mezz.

    Inside Voice:
    Passive Ability. The longer your target has been under the effects of your Mesmerizing abilities, the less likely they will be to resist your Charm abilities.

    Mental Terraformer:
    Passive. Epic Skill. Your Charm spells now have a small innate chance to permanently Charm your target. Permanent Charm will break when you die or zone.


    • 110 posts
    August 8, 2018 10:07 AM PDT

    wow the enchanter got some nice candy already thinking in rolling one, even when i was hellbent on rolling a cleric (witch was a disepointment anyway)

    charm/mezz/mana regen and a bunch of nice utility for the grp just awsome.

    • 90 posts
    August 8, 2018 10:25 AM PDT

    Looks good, though not surprising (which isn't a criticism in any way).

     

    I'm not generally a fan of charm mechanics, so if I could swap anything out it'd be the ability to sub something useful for charm, like perhaps temporary pets (no idea how temporary, like maybe 5 minute duration with a short cooldown that starts after the pet expires?). Either way, still looks solid!

    • 28 posts
    August 8, 2018 12:12 PM PDT

    After a first read through, I feel they got all the abilities that allow an enchanter to shine in a group as a utility class.  It has all the core abilities of the old school enchanter and these abilities are the reason the class was so indispensable to groups tackling difficult dungeons.  Overall, I am very happy with the results.   I loved the EQ1 enchanter and intend to play one in Pantheon and I will be interested to see how all these abilities are balanced.

    The core enchanter abilities:

    Runeskin (Rune)

    Mesmerize

    Enshire’s Faint Whisper (Mana Regen)

    Malison’s Crushing Grip and Forceful Will (Magic Resistance Debuff)

    Illusion Graft: Exhaustion (Slow)

    Control Breath (Lull – reduce assist range)

    Ghaven’s Wild Display (AE stun)

    Charm/Dire Charm

    Thought Thief (Memblur – hate list wipe)

    And of course Illusions, while not necessarily a critical component of fighting, it was always a key characteristic of enchanters.

     

    Some of the new abilities are very intriguing and will add nicely to the enchanters utility.

    Illusion Graft: AcuityIncrease spell casting speed -  The enchanter abilities don’t list a melee haste but has this spell caster haste.  Haste is less critical to spell casters since mana and hate are usually the limiting factors in fights and not the speed of your casting, but I could see scenarios where this ability is very useful.  Possibly for healers, so they can cast longer heals more quickly for high damage mobs or for DPS casters when dealing with a mob you want to burn down as fast as possible, when mana use doesn’t matter.

    Squee’s Mimicry and Squee’s Grand FoolerySelf and group Illusion of random object – A very interesting ability that could be used in a lot of ways.  Travelling through a dungeon and a roamer is coming that you don’t want to fight?  Become a little urn in the corner.  Sitting at a camp out of mana and you hear a train is coming your way in chat?  Turn your group into a few sacks of grain sitting near the wall, as the train chases everyone else to the zoneline.

    Malison’s Lucid Dream and Malison’s Lucid Nightmareif enemy dies .. Abilities cost no resources/Enemy abilities have no effect – Interesting combination that could be used in many ways.  It can be used to save a group member, like a healer and even if you don’t kill the enemy in time and the enemy’s damage is retroactively dumped on a random group member, it’s still probably better than the healer dying earlier in the fight.  I can think of some other clear uses for this ability.

    Shock and Awecauses enemy to attack nearest enemy for short time – A clever CC option and I have plenty of questions about exactly how it will work.  This could also go terribly wrong for the enchanter who loses track of the fight and mob positions, casts this spell and the mob goes running to the nearest enemy which is a group of 4 mobs and you turn a two pull into a 6 pull.

    Eyumai’s Dullingweaken enemy weapon damage – A different variation of a slow spell, being that it reduces overall enemy damage.  Will this affect enemy’s that don’t use weapons, like dragons with claws and teeth?  Perhaps not and that might be the point of this spell. The slow spell was a bit overpowered in old EQ1, since it was needed for any group doing challenging content.  With a spell like Eyumai’s Dulling, you could make it so it affects some attacks but not other, depending on the damage type and weapon type. - - This of course goes along with Illusion Graft: Exhaustion (Melee Slow).  Can both abilities be on the enemy at the same time?  What is the duration of both?  Balancing this will be important so that these two abilities together, don’t become overpowered in terms of damage reduction.

     


    This post was edited by Arbeor at August 8, 2018 12:23 PM PDT
    • 19 posts
    August 8, 2018 12:22 PM PDT

    I always thought i was going to main an enchanter, but they released the healer abilities and the druid sounded kind of amazing to me. After this reveal, there is no question in my mind, i will be an Enchanter main. Such a good range of abilities in terms of interacting with the world and your group. Im so hyped rn.

     

    Favorite active ability has to be Squee's grand foolery. I seriously hope i can physically transform my entire group into sweetrolls. 

    Favorite passive is definitely Mental Terraformer because of it's interaction with other skills (Dire Charm/Inside Voice). 

     


    This post was edited by woodpipes at August 8, 2018 12:27 PM PDT
    • 26 posts
    August 8, 2018 4:47 PM PDT

    Foolish Fire - AKA the Train Maker.

    • 156 posts
    August 8, 2018 7:04 PM PDT

    As I feared, the enchanter is pretty overpowered by the looks of it. Yes, I know these abilities are not fully tested yet, but the reveals are all we have to work with for the time being plus a few streams. Insane amount of CC, permanent charm is completely stepping on the toes of summoners by giving them a permanent pet, and then a series of powerful buffs and a few debuffs. I was really really hoping they made the class not the insane powerhouse that it was in EQ but this seems to not be the case. 

    I wanted to play a summoner but of course for the top summoner summons to be useful they need an enchanter, lol. I wonder if they will change the best clarity and mezzes so they are only useful if a summoner nearby wants to help. Oh wait, both of these are perposterous, but sadly one of them is true as the abilities are written now. Ug.

    • 27 posts
    August 8, 2018 9:40 PM PDT
    Pretty much what I expected but that's not saying a bad thing. Looks like the enchanter has plenty of tools to CC well. I'm convinced this game loosly steals names from Magic: the gathering. Squee is a goblin isn't he? Lol
    • 410 posts
    August 8, 2018 11:13 PM PDT
    Absolutely love the design. Squee, hell yeah! And Lucid Dream / Nightmare? So we need to kill the nightmared enemy before the spell wears off or it's dispelled? Sounds like an awesome, fun risk for the group - keep the dream going for as long as possible, but be sure the nightmared one dies before it runs out! Will we be pushing the ability until its last few seconds, when we kill the enemy who has been kept at the brink of death (and whose soul may be awaiting transformation to bansheedom, as we've found out - read the Rogue's Gallery if you didnt!)?
    • 795 posts
    August 9, 2018 1:00 PM PDT

    After looking at the enchanter abilities...this charm thing is going to be busted and dumb. Unless they make it to where the charm pet is debuffed a lot once charmed...other than that...looks fun.

    • 158 posts
    August 10, 2018 10:31 AM PDT

    Hmmm, I don't see a root. That's kind of a bummer. I liked being able to root melee mobs for less mana and save my mezzes for the ranged and caster mobs. Dunno about the permanent charm. That's going to lead to uncharmable mobs being prevalent later down the road unless charming a mob makes it totally gimped.

    • 7 posts
    August 13, 2018 12:29 PM PDT

    So many people bagging on charm/perma charm. This is not something new to MMOs and it has always been handled well. They don't reintain their full HP, they don't reintain their full damage, they don't even keep all of their abilities. As far as I'm concerned this is just another CC. I can temp charm it and its like mez only now it fights for me. If I perma charm it then its out for the rest of the fight and I can drop charm at the end and kill it separately. If I decide to hang on to a perma charm then I'm trading that mobs skills for CC options. But you know that VR isn't stupid enough to let you charm one of the biggest badasses of a dungeon and let it retain everything that makes it a badass. 

    LucasBlackstone said:

    permanent charm is completely stepping on the toes of summoners by giving them a permanent pet

    You tell me an MMO that has only ever had 1 pet class and you can keep your deluded comment. Its just getting pets in different ways. Summoners have their perma pets that they can have whenever they want, an enchanter has to get a new one every time they zone/die and they have to find theirs in the zone. That is unless a summoner assists them by summoning one for them using Summon Creature/Summon Behemoth. Without a doubt necromancers will have skeleton pets, summoner's were never intended to be the only pet class, but I bet they will have the most versitile and powerful pets. 

    LucasBlackstone said:

    I wanted to play a summoner but of course for the top summoner summons to be useful they need an enchanter, lol. I wonder if they will change the best clarity and mezzes so they are only useful if a summoner nearby wants to help. Oh wait, both of these are perposterous, but sadly one of them is true as the abilities are written now. Ug.

    I can only assume that this gibe is related to Summon Creature/Summon Behemoth since you couldn't deign yourself to complete your thought. This is a lot more of the summoner helping an enchanter than the other way around. Again, enchanters can't have perma pets with out finding them in the zone or a summoner's help. And at higher levels, likely the help of a tank and a healer to hold the mob while they cast charm so the mob doesn't kill the summoner and enchanter. This is a group centric game where team play is HIGHLY encouraged, is it such a terrible thing that 1 class might need to assist another to maximize potential? It makes sense that a summoner would be able to summon a random mob from the zone to their group, it doesn't make sense that the summoner would gain control of that mob (flavor of the class, mana ghosts and all). It makes sense that the enchanter can enthrall a mob to become their slave, it doesn't make sense that the enchanter would be able summon a mob to them to be enslaved. 

    This is a group/team centric game, you're going to need the help of most classes to succeed. 


    This post was edited by Balthaazar12 at August 13, 2018 12:32 PM PDT
    • 71 posts
    August 18, 2018 1:19 PM PDT

    Balthaazar12 said:

    So many people bagging on charm/perma charm. This is not something new to MMOs and it has always been handled well. They don't reintain their full HP, they don't reintain their full damage, they don't even keep all of their abilities. As far as I'm concerned this is just another CC. I can temp charm it and its like mez only now it fights for me. If I perma charm it then its out for the rest of the fight and I can drop charm at the end and kill it separately. If I decide to hang on to a perma charm then I'm trading that mobs skills for CC options. But you know that VR isn't stupid enough to let you charm one of the biggest badasses of a dungeon and let it retain everything that makes it a badass. 

    LucasBlackstone said:

    permanent charm is completely stepping on the toes of summoners by giving them a permanent pet

    You tell me an MMO that has only ever had 1 pet class and you can keep your deluded comment. Its just getting pets in different ways. Summoners have their perma pets that they can have whenever they want, an enchanter has to get a new one every time they zone/die and they have to find theirs in the zone. That is unless a summoner assists them by summoning one for them using Summon Creature/Summon Behemoth. Without a doubt necromancers will have skeleton pets, summoner's were never intended to be the only pet class, but I bet they will have the most versitile and powerful pets. 

    LucasBlackstone said:

    I wanted to play a summoner but of course for the top summoner summons to be useful they need an enchanter, lol. I wonder if they will change the best clarity and mezzes so they are only useful if a summoner nearby wants to help. Oh wait, both of these are perposterous, but sadly one of them is true as the abilities are written now. Ug.

    I can only assume that this gibe is related to Summon Creature/Summon Behemoth since you couldn't deign yourself to complete your thought. This is a lot more of the summoner helping an enchanter than the other way around. Again, enchanters can't have perma pets with out finding them in the zone or a summoner's help. And at higher levels, likely the help of a tank and a healer to hold the mob while they cast charm so the mob doesn't kill the summoner and enchanter. This is a group centric game where team play is HIGHLY encouraged, is it such a terrible thing that 1 class might need to assist another to maximize potential? It makes sense that a summoner would be able to summon a random mob from the zone to their group, it doesn't make sense that the summoner would gain control of that mob (flavor of the class, mana ghosts and all). It makes sense that the enchanter can enthrall a mob to become their slave, it doesn't make sense that the enchanter would be able summon a mob to them to be enslaved. 

    This is a group/team centric game, you're going to need the help of most classes to succeed. 

     

    Well said Balthaazar12... couldn't agree with you more

    • 156 posts
    August 18, 2018 10:28 PM PDT

    Working together is one thing. One of your capstone abilities being totally detrimental unless there is ONE specific class around to make it useable is another thing entirely. That is what makes Summon Behemoth uncool. I'm pretty sure if the best mezz, or Dire Charm only functioned if a summoner was around to give the enchanter a special summoned ingredient/component for it, enchanters wouldn't be saying " On man this really enchances my play experience as an enchanter that I have to have a summoner to use one of my best abilities! " Of course people are going to argue this because it's what people like to do.

    Joppa did say there is another half to this synergy we are unaware of so it may make up for the disappointment most summoner fans feel with the ability as listed.

     

    • 367 posts
    August 19, 2018 12:00 AM PDT

    @LucasBlackstone

    I see your point but the summon creature spell isn't a staple point of the class. Comparing it to mez or charm is like saying Summoners can't summon their archamentals without an Enchanter. While I asked about this spell series prior to the Q&A, of my questions, they only asked two and ignored that one. I asked it again in a new post in the Enchanter forum and hoping to have Chris respond to it if and when he can.

     

    I want to know the answers on this too but more so, I want to know why there are two versions of disparate power. Reason being, it shines light into the mechanics in mob power structure. For instance, the regular spell summons a creature, but what makes the epic version creature different? What difference in the world is such a mob that is then depicted as more powerful than another variant?

     

    • 156 posts
    August 19, 2018 12:54 AM PDT

    @Darkintellect

    When you are referring to variants, do you mean that Summon Creature and Summon Behemoth would both summon the same creatures, but Behemoth would be a more powerful version? I didn't take that away from reading the two abilities. I suppose it's possible. That would be a little disappointing to me though.

    • 367 posts
    August 19, 2018 1:44 PM PDT

    I meant the disparity between the two spells. Summon Creature listing that it summons a mob from within the world while the 'Behemoth' version summons a more powerful creature that's in the world to the summoner. I may be wrong but I feel like it was giving us some insight into creature/mob hierarchy. I entertain the idea that it could be a purely arbitrary ruleset where the 'Behemoth' version simply summons the same type as the 'Creature' version but with increased stats. 

    It's this type of clarity I was hoping to see answered in one of my questions which the guys at MMORPG felt wasn't pertinent enough to be asked.

    • 6 posts
    August 25, 2018 6:38 AM PDT

    I can understand his concern with the behemoth spell. While the game is 100% a group effort, it seems odd to create a spell that if 100% useless without an enchanter present. To me it would be neat to see it summon a behemoth that fights for the summoner for a short period of time then turns like charm broke and which point an enchanter can pick it up as a pet. This gives the summoner a spell that could have applications without an enchanter but is immensely enhanced with an enchanter present. 

    It would be a bit of a smack in the face if someone created an enchanter spell that forced us to rely specifically on another class.  Imagine if slows would only work if a wizard hit a mob with a cold based spell or if haste only worked if a mob hit the target first.

    As such, I can at least understand why someone would be upset about having a spell 100% reliant on another class at this point. We will need to see how it plays out before freaking out. Perhaps we will see behemoths be completely ridiculous and because of that, the devs will ensure that two classes are needed to make them function. I'm really hoping that this is the case because then I can charm the behemoth and the summoner can summon another pet and we can have a super pet and a normal pet dominating at the same time.

    • 367 posts
    August 25, 2018 8:47 AM PDT

    @DoomDragon

    "it seems odd to create a spell that if 100% useless without an enchanter present."

    My guess is they consider that every group will want the four major archetypes, it would be expected you'll see an Enchanter in the majority of groups 4-6 man in size. For instance, if you have let's say a group of five people, not a full group mind you but enough. It consists of a Cleric, Pally, Rogue and Wizard. The question is, will they get an Enchanter or a Summoner? Considering they're missing a major archetype and because through spell hastes, melee hastes, mana regen, mana replenishment nukes etc providing near as much damage as a DPS class, not to mention the debuffs, will they pick the Summoner as a 3rd DPS role over an Enchanter for the Control/Support role? If the game continues as is trending in polls over the last 18 months and we see DPS continue to be lacking in numbers, you are far more likely to see an Enchanter in a group as a Summoner than without.  Another question will be when the Bard is unvieled, will they have a similar spell/song which could make use of the Summoner using this ability?

    My concern with the spell is this. Why would an Enchanter want the version from a Summoner if they can simply grab anything from the zone with the benefit of being a permanent charm? What makes the Enchanter want to charm something in this manor? I get the particulars and limited moments when you may be mid fight, not have another mob available, or something along those lines, but that only decreases the purpose even more which drives back to your point which I do agree with. It should be something that the Enchanter is willing to use, otherwise it's doubly in question.


    This post was edited by Janus at August 25, 2018 8:49 AM PDT
    • 156 posts
    August 25, 2018 10:39 AM PDT

    It makes sense that they will ALWAYS take an enchanter over any dps. Enchanter provides far too much damage for a group when you take into account all the things they can do between buffs, direct damage, and mana regen plus a pet ( even if stats are reduced while charmed, which would make sense ). Then on top of it you get an insane arount of CC. 

    • 6 posts
    August 26, 2018 4:38 AM PDT

    Dark,

     

    I wholeheartedly support having all of the archetypes in a group. What group wasn't made better with a solid enc/bard in eq? One would hope that when (if?) bards join the lineup that they would be another support class and have abilities similar to an enc. Each class has their niche though and CC was always the enc niche, which bards could do, but not as well. Bards could just do just about anything, but the only thing I remembering them doing truly well was buffs, their buffs always seems superior to enc buffs (even if significantly less duration). Who could outrun a bard?

    The primary idea behind my post was a spell that is unable to be used by a summoner without a specific other class present seems odd. Even enchanters who have a very tough go of things without help have no spells that are exclusively dependant on one other class. Lots that need other classes, but nothing specific. To be honest, I haven't look at the other classes yet to see if anything else exists like this (only 2nd day of being here). What I was trying to illustrate is the weirdness of the (useless) spell and a possible fix to allow some utility when a summoner doesn't have an enc present but needs help to survive.

    Another thing I've always wanted to see with charms in ANY game is the ability to hand off control of the charmed mob. Let me charm something and give that mob to a pet class to deal with so I can get back to dealing with crowd control. Imagine if our summoner friend could summon this behemoth, we charm it and pass control to them. It's going to suck for us when the charm breaks, but Mr. or Mrs. summoner gets their mean 'ole pet, I get one less thing I have to worry about until charm breaks. This would increase our versatility since the mob could be given to the tank and they could make sure it is on the primary target or it could be given to the summoner to control its special abilities or I could keep the thing and use it to pick up an add and off tank. This would be particularly helpful if they let us charm multiple things at once. I wouldn't have been so bored during Kael raids in Velious if I was passing around pet giants to everyone. 

    • 367 posts
    August 26, 2018 9:10 AM PDT

    @DoomDragon

    "One would hope that when (if?) bards join the lineup that they would be another support class and have abilities similar to an enc"

    I agree but I hope they don't stack or hope they have cap issues. I say this because the Support archetype is heavily built around performance buffs. These buffs can act as a passive form of DPS. It's the 'Force Multiplier' in a group and thus, typically comes out as near the DPS of a DPS class if not exceeding it. That strength depends heavily on group composition and size but six players is enough to where a group will typically take an Enchanter and then a Bard in the DPS slot over say a DPS, Healer or Tank. That could create some issues.

    "Bards could just do just about anything, but the only thing I remembering them doing truly well was buffs, their buffs always seems superior to enc buffs (even if significantly less duration). "

    Not entirely. Their hastes were a good deal less which closed a bit in late level Kunark but was still off by 7%, mana regen was singing skill so it was the same amount as Enchanter (Cantana with the best stringed instrument was even less by a point) until Luclin, but that bounced around and each time Enchanter or Bard were better by about 5-10% at most in mana regen. Their single target slow Angstlich's Assonance was rather limited to about 46% by Luclin with the best horn, compared to the Enchanter's 70%. They were also less damage than Enchanter by Luclin+ and had much poorer msmerizing capability, not to mention if pulling or having to mez, not being able to maintain all the required buffs.

    However, Bards made up for it in having a wide range of songs that did most everything and were most notable for their 'save vs' songs.

    "Another thing I've always wanted to see with charms in ANY game is the ability to hand off control of the charmed mob."

    It's definitely a new idea to me. My only question is, since charm requires control, mentally of that target to even control it, how would that new player control it if they don't have the same mental capabilities? You're still actively controlling it, you're basically as the Enchanter just listening to the commands of the other class but still doing all the motions yourself, essentially doing it just to humor the other class and make them feel good about themselves.

    If the summoner already has a pet out, how would they control now a second pet under our control? As for multiple charming though and passing off to people, that would be unbelieveable overpowered. It would be fun, I agree, but insane in terms of balance.

     

    The way I see it, I'm fine with them removing the spells from Summoners altogether seeing as it seems to get more questions or anger over the class feeling like a slave for the Enchanter. I typically don't see a point in the limited description. Although, that could be the point, we don't know the complete details. I originally thought, "Why would I charm that over anything else in the zone available to me, especially if there's a chance of a permanent charm?". What I would love is that if summoned, the Enchanter can charm it or use Shock & Awe but the moment charm breaks or Shock & Awe wears off, it returns to the ether. Charms under this type are not able to be permanently charmed but do have a minimal duration of 90 seconds.

    Something along those lines could work well. It won't alleviate the issue people have with needing the assistance of the Control archetype of the group, but it does deal with the other issues revolving around the purpose of such a spell as an alternative.

     


    This post was edited by Janus at August 26, 2018 9:11 AM PDT