Forums » The Paladin

Lightful Avenger theory crafting

    • 589 posts
    July 25, 2018 2:51 AM PDT

    Hi all, time for some theory-crafting on the Lightful Avenger ability! First I wanted to see how the healing of this ability would work out for different reduction percentages, so I wrote a little program to calculate the values for different percentages and hits. The format below is: Incoming hit -> reduced damage before mitigation (healing per group member).

    Damage reduction: 5%
    10 -> 9.5 (0.08 healing)
    20 -> 19.0 (0.17 healing)
    50 -> 47.5 (0.42 healing)
    100 -> 95.0 (0.83 healing)
    200 -> 190.0 (1.67 healing)
    250 -> 237.5 (2.08 healing)
    500 -> 475.0 (4.17 healing)
    1000 -> 950.0 (8.33 healing)

    Damage reduction: 10%
    10 -> 9.0 (0.17 healing)
    20 -> 18.0 (0.33 healing)
    50 -> 45.0 (0.83 healing)
    100 -> 90.0 (1.67 healing)
    200 -> 180.0 (3.33 healing)
    250 -> 225.0 (4.17 healing)
    500 -> 450.0 (8.33 healing)
    1000 -> 900.0 (16.67 healing)

    Damage reduction: 15%
    10 -> 8.5 (0.25 healing)
    20 -> 17.0 (0.5 healing)
    50 -> 42.5 (1.25 healing)
    100 -> 85.0 (2.5 healing)
    200 -> 170.0 (5 healing)
    250 -> 212.5 (6.25 healing)
    500 -> 425.0 (12.5 healing)
    1000 -> 850.0 (25 healing)

    Damage reduction: 20%
    10 -> 8.0 (0.33 healing)
    20 -> 16.0 (0.67 healing)
    50 -> 40.0 (1.67 healing)
    100 -> 80.0 (3.33 healing)
    200 -> 160.0 (6.67 healing)
    250 -> 200.0 (8.33 healing)
    500 -> 400.0 (16.67 healing)
    1000 -> 800.0 (33.33 healing)

    Damage reduction: 25%
    10 -> 7.5 (0.42 healing)
    20 -> 15.0 (0.83 healing)
    50 -> 37.5 (2.08 healing)
    100 -> 75.0 (4.17 healing)
    200 -> 150.0 (8.33 healing)
    250 -> 187.5 (10.42 healing)
    500 -> 375.0 (20.83 healing)
    1000 -> 750.0 (41.67 healing)

    As you can see, the healing per group member is pretty insignificant. Although you could see this as a direct regen (since the effect can happen once per second), it wont work like that with most mobs since they likely will not hit that fast (and they can miss you too). It will be more effective with multiple mobs hitting you at the same time, since then you will have a higher chance of actually getting hit each second.


    And how does the damage reduction play out, when compared to a warrior? Warriors will most likely have higher physical mitigation than paladins, if only because they gain more AC from armor. How much higher mitigation, we don't know. I've played around with two values here, 5% and 10% less mitigation for paladins than warriors.

    In the following data you see the values for damage taken with different mitigation percentages and hit values. The first line shows the mitigation % for warrior, then 5% and 10% less for paladin. The next rows then have the following fields:
    1) Incoming hit
    2) Damage taken with the first mitigation %, formula: hit - (hit * mit)
    3) Damage taken with the second mitigation %, formula: hit - (hit * (mit - 0.05)
    4) Five values for damage taken with the Lightful Avenger damage reduction applied (5% - 25%), and the second mitigation %, formula (e.g. 5% dmg reduction): (hit * 0.95) - (hit * 0.95) * (mit - 0.05)
    5) Damage taken with the third mitigation %, formula: hit - (hit * (mit - 0.1)
    6) Five values for damage taken with the Lightful Avenger damage reduction applied (5% - 25%), and the third mitigation %, formula (e.g. 10% dmg reduction): (hit * 0.9) - (hit * 0.9) * (mit - 0.1)

    Basically, the 1st value shows the damage taken by the warrior, the 3rd and 5th values show the paladin damage taken against normal mobs. I hope the formulas used make sense and are correct!

    Mitigation: 35% (30%, 25%)
    10: 6.5 || 7 (6.65, 6.3, 5.95, 5.6, 5.25) || 7.5 (7.12, 6.75, 6.38, 6, 5.62)
    20: 13 || 14 (13.3, 12.6, 11.9, 11.2, 10.5) || 15 (14.25, 13.5, 12.75, 12, 11.25)
    50: 32.5 || 35 (33.25, 31.5, 29.75, 28, 26.25) || 37.5 (35.62, 33.75, 31.88, 30, 28.12)
    100: 65 || 70 (66.5, 63, 59.5, 56, 52.5) || 75 (71.25, 67.5, 63.75, 60, 56.25)
    200: 130 || 140 (133, 126, 119, 112, 105) || 150 (142.5, 135, 127.5, 120, 112.5)
    250: 162.5 || 175 (166.25, 157.5, 148.75, 140, 131.25) || 187.5 (178.12, 168.75, 159.38, 150, 140.62)
    500: 325 || 350 (332.5, 315, 297.5, 280, 262.5) || 375 (356.25, 337.5, 318.75, 300, 281.25)
    1000: 650 || 700 (665, 630, 595, 560, 525) || 750 (712.5, 675, 637.5, 600, 562.5)

    Mitigation: 40% (35%, 30%)
    10: 6 || 6.5 (6.17, 5.85, 5.53, 5.2, 4.88) || 7 (6.65, 6.3, 5.95, 5.6, 5.25)
    20: 12 || 13 (12.35, 11.7, 11.05, 10.4, 9.75) || 14 (13.3, 12.6, 11.9, 11.2, 10.5)
    50: 30 || 32.5 (30.88, 29.25, 27.62, 26, 24.38) || 35 (33.25, 31.5, 29.75, 28, 26.25)
    100: 60 || 65 (61.75, 58.5, 55.25, 52, 48.75) || 70 (66.5, 63, 59.5, 56, 52.5)
    200: 120 || 130 (123.5, 117, 110.5, 104, 97.5) || 140 (133, 126, 119, 112, 105)
    250: 150 || 162.5 (154.38, 146.25, 138.12, 130, 121.88) || 175 (166.25, 157.5, 148.75, 140, 131.25)
    500: 300 || 325 (308.75, 292.5, 276.25, 260, 243.75) || 350 (332.5, 315, 297.5, 280, 262.5)
    1000: 600 || 650 (617.5, 585, 552.5, 520, 487.5) || 700 (665, 630, 595, 560, 525)

    Mitigation: 45% (40%, 35%)
    10: 5.5 || 6 (5.7, 5.4, 5.1, 4.8, 4.5) || 6.5 (6.18, 5.85, 5.53, 5.2, 4.88)
    20: 11 || 12 (11.4, 10.8, 10.2, 9.6, 9) || 13 (12.35, 11.7, 11.05, 10.4, 9.75)
    50: 27.5 || 30 (28.5, 27, 25.5, 24, 22.5) || 32.5 (30.88, 29.25, 27.62, 26, 24.38)
    100: 55 || 60 (57, 54, 51, 48, 45) || 65 (61.75, 58.5, 55.25, 52, 48.75)
    200: 110 || 120 (114, 108, 102, 96, 90) || 130 (123.5, 117, 110.5, 104, 97.5)
    250: 137.5 || 150 (142.5, 135, 127.5, 120, 112.5) || 162.5 (154.38, 146.25, 138.12, 130, 121.88)
    500: 275 || 300 (285, 270, 255, 240, 225) || 325 (308.75, 292.5, 276.25, 260, 243.75)
    1000: 550 || 600 (570, 540, 510, 480, 450) || 650 (617.5, 585, 552.5, 520, 487.5)

    Mitigation: 50% (45%, 40%)
    10: 5 || 5.5 (5.22, 4.95, 4.67, 4.4, 4.12) || 6 (5.7, 5.4, 5.1, 4.8, 4.5)
    20: 10 || 11 (10.45, 9.9, 9.35, 8.8, 8.25) || 12 (11.4, 10.8, 10.2, 9.6, 9)
    50: 25 || 27.5 (26.12, 24.75, 23.38, 22, 20.62) || 30 (28.5, 27, 25.5, 24, 22.5)
    100: 50 || 55 (52.25, 49.5, 46.75, 44, 41.25) || 60 (57, 54, 51, 48, 45)
    200: 100 || 110 (104.5, 99, 93.5, 88, 82.5) || 120 (114, 108, 102, 96, 90)
    250: 125 || 137.5 (130.62, 123.75, 116.88, 110, 103.12) || 150 (142.5, 135, 127.5, 120, 112.5)
    500: 250 || 275 (261.25, 247.5, 233.75, 220, 206.25) || 300 (285, 270, 255, 240, 225)
    1000: 500 || 550 (522.5, 495, 467.5, 440, 412.5) || 600 (570, 540, 510, 480, 450)

    Mitigation: 55% (50%, 45%)
    10: 4.5 || 5 (4.75, 4.5, 4.25, 4, 3.75) || 5.5 (5.22, 4.95, 4.67, 4.4, 4.12)
    20: 9 || 10 (9.5, 9, 8.5, 8, 7.5) || 11 (10.45, 9.9, 9.35, 8.8, 8.25)
    50: 22.5 || 25 (23.75, 22.5, 21.25, 20, 18.75) || 27.5 (26.12, 24.75, 23.37, 22, 20.62)
    100: 45 || 50 (47.5, 45, 42.5, 40, 37.5) || 55 (52.25, 49.5, 46.75, 44, 41.25)
    200: 90 || 100 (95, 90, 85, 80, 75) || 110 (104.5, 99, 93.5, 88, 82.5)
    250: 112.5 || 125 (118.75, 112.5, 106.25, 100, 93.75) || 137.5 (130.62, 123.75, 116.87, 110, 103.12)
    500: 225 || 250 (237.5, 225, 212.5, 200, 187.5) || 275 (261.25, 247.5, 233.75, 220, 206.25)
    1000: 450 || 500 (475, 450, 425, 400, 375) || 550 (522.5, 495, 467.5, 440, 412.5)

    Mitigation: 60% (55%, 50%)
    10: 4 || 4.5 (4.28, 4.05, 3.83, 3.6, 3.38) || 5 (4.75, 4.5, 4.25, 4, 3.75)
    20: 8 || 9 (8.55, 8.1, 7.65, 7.2, 6.75) || 10 (9.5, 9, 8.5, 8, 7.5)
    50: 20 || 22.5 (21.38, 20.25, 19.13, 18, 16.88) || 25 (23.75, 22.5, 21.25, 20, 18.75)
    100: 40 || 45 (42.75, 40.5, 38.25, 36, 33.75) || 50 (47.5, 45, 42.5, 40, 37.5)
    200: 80 || 90 (85.5, 81, 76.5, 72, 67.5) || 100 (95, 90, 85, 80, 75)
    250: 100 || 112.5 (106.88, 101.25, 95.63, 90, 84.38) || 125 (118.75, 112.5, 106.25, 100, 93.75)
    500: 200 || 225 (213.75, 202.5, 191.25, 180, 168.75) || 250 (237.5, 225, 212.5, 200, 187.5)
    1000: 400 || 450 (427.5, 405, 382.5, 360, 337.5) || 500 (475, 450, 425, 400, 375)


    From the results, you can see that the higher the assumed mitigation, the higher the damage reduction of Lightful Avenger will have to be to make paladins better than warriors (assuming that this is the goal when fighting undead). For example, with 35% mitigation, the damage reduction would have to be between 10-15% to put the paladin ahead of the warrior. With 60% mitigation, it would have to be between 15-25%.

    /theorycraft off
    /discussion on

    • 49 posts
    July 25, 2018 8:02 AM PDT

    How powerful the healing is also depends on the HP pool of the different classes; if they're actually even being hit while the Paladin is tanking, if there is no AOE going off it's kinda moot. Also it depends on what sort of AOE is happening maybe it will mitigate quite a large portion of the damage in some situations and in other's not so much.

    As for the rest I'm not sure what there is to discuss, perhaps I'm being dumb. VR seem to want the Paladin to be the better tank vs undead (which lets be real that's clearly the goal) they will just tweak the numbers to make that the case. How much better is really up to them; I'm guessing there wont be much of a difference or they would be too weak vs normal mobs and other tanks too weak vs undead which could cause a lot of problems. You don't want a situation where you absolutely have to have a Paladin to tank undead or you can't do that zone.

    Also they seem to get more damage / hate vs undead too so depending on how DPS is balanced that might allow for people to put out more DPS numbers when a Paladin is tanking vs one of the other classes who knows...

    I'm glad they are seperating out the tanks and it's not just they're all equal but there is a fine line between a bit more useful vs X situation and ridiculously op that they need to be careful not to get wrong (which kinda goes without saying)

     

    • 198 posts
    July 28, 2018 3:50 AM PDT

    I think it is important to remember that being in Lightful Avenger "mode" not only increases ones damage mitigation.
    A warrior might have higher flat mitigation, even vs undead, but the extra Wrath generation and Reckoning points lead to more damage being negated through ability usage. And the extra offensive capability, dealing more damage and therefore having more aggro on the mobs is also very valuable. This trait to me is more offensive and active rather than defensive and passive, and that is good imo.