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Crafters Roundtable: Dropped and One-shot recipes

    • 1528 posts
    July 3, 2018 8:09 AM PDT

    Hi everyone! As it's a new week, I thought I would start up a new roundtable discussion for us here and over at Pantheon Crafters.

    This past weekend, I've been thinking about dropped recipes - and whether I like them or I don't. There always seems to be that one recipe you really want that you can't seem to find, or that people are selling for way too much for you to be able to afford. This is especially the case when it's a one-shot recipe, meaning you can only make one item and then you have to get the recipe again if you want to make another.

    For Pantheon, how do you all feel about these concepts? Should there be dropped recipes? If so, how should they be obtained? Should some of the better dropped recipes (maybe the raid-level ones) be one-shot recipes?

    • 167 posts
    July 3, 2018 10:21 AM PDT

    I am very much in favor of dropped recipes. It's a game function that gets you out in the world. I would say if you want dwarven legs recipe, you converse with dwarven NPCs or kill Duegar for it. Maybe there is some form of NPC rogues guild that has a poison recipe. Anything that gets the crafter out into the world instead of just jumping from city to city to aquire recipes.

    One-shot recipes... I don't know. Rather not see them, I like to think that if I learn a recipe, I keep it learned. Call it a scroll of xxxxx  if you must have one shot recipes. At least it would feel more natural then. Again, interacting with the world to get them. Maybe heavily incorporate the perception system and climate system to create the level of rareness you desire. I would not make it a raid drop as I feel crafting should be able to be 100% accomplished as a pve tradesman (utilizing all these horizontal progressioon mechanisms) vs as a pve raider or pvper.


    This post was edited by Dashed at July 3, 2018 10:23 AM PDT
    • 1023 posts
    July 3, 2018 5:45 PM PDT

     

    Until we see what form crafting will take in Pantheon so it is hard to answer directly. The value of a specific recipe will vary between “A Named Item with The Same Stats Every Time” crafting system and a “build your own armor from a list of sub recipes” system.

    To me a one use recipe is really just the same as a recipe that is multi-use but has an ingredient that is lore that must be collected a significant distance from a crafting station. If crafting is the “Named Item” system I think the lore ingredient idea is a good idea for powerful items. The supply of the finished product is less about hording a very rare ingredient and more about the Crafter making the trip to the item source and back to their work station.

    I personally think the “Named Item” crafting system is a waste of time to put in. Any named crafted item needs to compete with dropped items for slot usage and its relative position in the game economy. Due to Named Crafting being virtually reliable the cost to create an item needs to be high to not flood the market with cheap crafted items that make their rare drop counterparts worthless. In a game without item decay over time the market will become flooded with dropped items to the point that the Named Crafting items will no longer be worth the price to craft them which will in turn be the trend for all crafted items. This trend gets even worse if low level players can equip items dropped at end game as eventually even the low level great items will become worthless because the high level good items are so plentiful.

    If instead of Named Item Crafting the crafting system functioned more like a buffet table where you could pick from any option in column A, 2 items from column B, and one more from column C then you pick which tray/skin you wanted to put them on, and if you pay extra you can get something from the desert table. The final item becomes a sum of the ingredients customized by the crafter for the client. Assuming each class will want slightly different final item stats or base items it is up to the crafter to make the right item for that character from the ingredients they current know how to use.

    I would make the primary recipes pretty much available at the starting levels and or the breakpoints between specializations. What players collect is not the base recipes but the recipes for the sub ingredients and the knowledge on how to work with the materials, i.e. skill ranks in mithril vs iron. I would also look at having enchanting runes be added in as their own component of the item creation process either as an ingredient or an actual joint crafting process between two crafters.

    Crafted items in this system would be a reliable way to fill your character item slots with perfect for your class items. Very special rare drop item will be better if it matches the stats your class needs but is ultimately valuable because it is usable when dropped rather than needing to be constructed.

    In general with the addition of both salvaging and the perception system I feel there is an opportunity for an outstanding secondary method to gain sub-component recipes. When you salvage an item if you have an appropriate crafting skill you gain experience towards mastering the sub-components the item was made from and the material the item was made out of. The best sub-components either require being taught by a master or through salvaging enough items that contain those sub-components. Your average mob drops from the tier will have low quality versions of the sub-components that are 50% of the quality of the best crafted versions and the best rare drop versions will be 110% of the crafted items but will be very very rare lore items and not available for every slot.

    I still feel that VR should reconsider not having item durability as having items that have a finite amount of playable life greatly addresses the issues of market flooding of rare items.

     


    This post was edited by Trasak at July 3, 2018 5:45 PM PDT
    • 89 posts
    July 5, 2018 10:44 AM PDT

    Not a huge fan of single-use recipes, but rare resources for those recipes that maybe come from a specific boss or something, sure. It doesn't make much sense that a crafter would lose the knowledge of how to do something while practicing it, with maybe one exception, "Daggummit, I just made a new batch of moonshine, and now I can't remember how to make it!" Maybe "lore" resources? That would keep people working together, as the crafter couldn't hoard all of the resources on the server and easily start a monopoly on the produced item.

    Dropped recipes, I'm fine with. I've farmed a few rare recipes in other games that I was never actually able to scrounge up, and that was ok. Just my luck the rare didn't want to drop it for me. I know the devs have teased in a stream that crafting-related rares will likely be found out in the world, even on bosses or rare mobs, so crafters will have to have adventuring buddies or adventure themselves to tie those aspects together. As long as they don't negatively affect the economy and make it too easy to create inflated monopolies, I'm good.

    • 217 posts
    July 5, 2018 8:16 PM PDT

    How about just experiment with materials until you discover what it makes?

    A drop might be a scroll or book that describes some recepie for some item(s) but is not something you scribe. 

    More like discovering the recepie for making a cake.  The recepie doesn't enable that, but the crafter can either discover it or read about it in a recepie book. 

    One shots might be gathering lore components - or at least one lore item in the recepie - that would require going out to get another one of these components after each combine. 

    • 4 posts
    July 6, 2018 9:39 PM PDT

    I like the dropped recipe ideas but could we please get it where there isnt any that just make one item to keep the price down on buying them.