I like it! This really reminds me of the "Township" feature from Breath of Fire 2. There are obviously a few more layers added to this that would allow it to make sense for an MMO, but there is one missing that I would love to see brain stormed. @Trasak -- is there any way that you could capture all of the above, but also allow players to add NPC's to the equation? In Breath of Fire 2, you could travel the lands and recruit NPC's to join your village. Each NPC brought something different to the table. There were architects that could influence the "design" of your houses ... think log cabins, traditional, fancy, tree houses, brick, etc. Some NPC's would set up shops ... some would take you to their "secret fishing spot" or "secret hunting grounds." There were other NPC's that would turn into a werewolf during a full moon.
What I am curious of is this ... how would you go about implementing something like that into an MMO? Would it even be feasible to begin with? I wouldn't want it to become some massive programming hurdle but I am thinking it might be possible to create a "system" that utilizes a lot of shared values. So rather than creating hundreds of unique NPC's, you create X amount of "roles" -- these could be architects, shop vendors, expert fishermen, hunters, gatherers, monument builders, guards, villagers, fortification specialists, patrolmen, farmers, etc. You could then introduce these NPC's into the world randomly and allow players to seek them out and recruit them to their village. Certain roles might be more desirable than others but it's up to the players to seek them out and recruit them to their village.
When a certain percentage of these NPC's are claimed, you could re-introduce a new wave of them into other random places in the world. They would always be randomized to some degree to prevent players from cherry picking the roles that are most desirable. The population for each town would be limited so you could get to the point where you want to evict a certain NPC and send them back out into the world in favor of someone else. There are plenty of challenges associated with an endeavor like this but I really like the idea of player driven towns. It was one of my favorite features from Breath of Fire 2 because it allowed me as a player to have a little bit of influence on the world. Seeing that it was a single player game, I was never able to share that influence with others, but I really enjoyed having my own footprint on the village. Could it be possible to incorporate something like this but rather than being ran by an individual player, it's something guilds could work on collectively? Would love to hear your thoughts Trasak!
Asking for my thoughts, now that’s dangerous.
I have not played Breath of Fire 2 so I may be missing some of the key concepts but I will give you the first couple of ideas that come to mind, understanding that there will be a limited amount a player driven city can influence the rest of Terminus.
First idea:
NPC Baiting: Certain groups of NPCs are attracted and interested in either familiar or culturally desired things. As the player driven city expands a percentage of the houses, stalls and store fronts are reserved for NPCs. If a street contains mostly elven player characters and or elven architecture buildings then elven NPCs are the ones most likely to move into the NPC slots. If enough of the surrounding streets are elven as well, then the public buildings and brick and mortar store fronts are also elven. If the area is Elven enough then possibly rare Elven or Elven enthusiast NPCs will occasionally show up who will teach rare skills or give rare quests.
If stalls are decorated with certain cultural items then NPC customers may be attracted to your stalls as they wander the market place. If an area has a high concentration of a specific cultures items then an NPC could move into one of the nearby stalls and sell rare items from their culture. Additionally wandering hawker NPC vendors could show up in the general area to offer “rare opportunities” just don’t let the guards catch you.
Likewise there could be contraband items that normally cannot be sold in the city. If enough of the stalls in an ally have the thieves’ guild mark on them the guards that pass through there will be “paid off” and you can buy and sell contraband both from player stalls and NPCs. The stalls would have an appropriately dark air.
Second Idea, not necessarily mutually exclusive:
Hired hands: Your businesses will all need employees to function and larger building may need upkeep assistance. Guild halls can be considered both business and large multi person buildings. Depending on your faction and interactions with NPCs you could inquire about hiring them to help with your business and or estate. Of course dedicated NPCs are busy right now and not looking for new employment but they have this nephew who is a bit down on their luck and could use the work.
This nephew could have a random set functions but weighted to match the NPC you attempted to hire. Given time and resources you can help develop the NPCs in your stall and house to your needs and tastes (which I guess includes giving them a uniform) which could further feed into the previous NPC Baiting.
Third Idea Gentrification/DeGentrification:
The owner of a deed can demolish their property and rebuild it to their tastes thought that can be expensive. Additionally undeveloped deeds can be combined or split to be the same as an adjacent plot or increased to one higher or one lower than adjacent plots if all the surrounding plots are the same. The buildings built on a plot must be within one step of the adjacent properties.
When building buildings you can request a specific architect to help you assemble your building. Which architects will work with you is based on your reputations. The cultural styles that the architect is proficient in will be reflected by their required reputations. A buildings Tier is based on a combination of its size, construction material and style, you could build a small but exquisite house on a big plot without violating the building tier of the surrounding plots leaving space for gardens or workshops. These gardens and workshops will also be part of your architects design.
When you are done with designing your house with your architect you are given a bill of materials that must be collected before your house can be built. You can just pay cash for all but the rarest of materials though it would be much more expensive than if collected yourself. The style items are those that provide rare looks that help with NPC baiting and in some cases give in game benefits of one type or another.
Again I may have missed the boat on what you were looking for a bit but it is some of it. Beware though that the programing and modeling involved in even these limited options will be brutally time consuming and would require a significant amount of manpower. I would estimate that it would take more than 2 years’ worth of work for VRs current team if they work on it exclusively, if the game world building generator tool set can be directly utilized to generate the modular buildings then perhaps it wouldn’t be that bad.
One thing that tends to junk up auction channels and merchants are raw commodities. Additionally those items usually have player value far higher than merchant values so players horde them to sell to each other or hold onto them until they are ready to grind with that material. The prices on these items tend to fluctuate based on demand and who is actively farming them, I have tanked a few markets for a short term in my days.
With the concept of localized value being a thing in Pantheon I think it would be an interesting and useful to my typical play style (I tend to resource trade in Elite Dangerous more than anything else) to have a place I can sell and purchase items from and take to another location to generate a personal profit. This will likely attract the ire of the “No Auction House – No Compromise!” crowd but I think it has real merit and can be very beneficial to the casual player with short play times and players who want to focus on the economic play. Introducing the Terminus Commodities Exchange.
Tool: Terminus Commodities Exchange
Purpose: Localized commodity vendor who’s prices reflect actual supply and demand and operate at a net negative economy cash flow.
Game Mechanics: Commodities are defined as base raw materials that have not been processed in any way other than the initial harvesting process and are used in the crafting system. This would include iron ore, coal, spider silk, deer hides, clover leaves, cod fish, pork bellies, cats eye agate, and yellow clay. This would not include odd ball ingredients like unicorn horns, Uncle Bob’s Peg Leg, or a dragons tooth, these items would typically be no drop or individually valuable enough to be on a merchant or sold player to player.
Each local commodity exchange would have a list of all the commodities traded and a target amount of inventory and a maximum inventory for each commodity. The base amount offered by the exchange for the commodities is the base indifferent, average charisma vendor sale price. Each exchange will have its own target inventory. This target inventory will be based on how often a commodity was purchased in the last week and a function of how far away the commodity is produced (the further away the commodity is produced the higher the target inventory). The maximum inventory for each commodity will be twice the target inventory.
Now the economics/math heavy bit. Every 12 hours the average inventory levels are checked vs the target inventory levels. The vender purchase price will increase or decrease at a percentage of the base vendor price inversely proportional to the average percentage of the target inventory. Every day that the average inventory remained below 25% of target inventory vendor offered price will go up an additional base cost times the number of consecutive days that the average inventory has remained below 25% of the target inventory. This will force the vendor price up rapidly until it matches the player market value in that local area. If the current inventory is above the target inventory then the 12 hour value of each sale is decreased by the current percentage the inventory is over the target inventory.
The commodity sell price will be one of two prices. If the current inventory is less than the target inventory then the current sale price is 10% more than the price last paid by the commodity market for that commodity. If the inventory is currently over the target inventory then the sale price is the average of the price the commodity exchange paid for the commodities currently in inventory, alternating removing the highest and lowest value from the history to maintain the average while removing the outliers.
The commodity market will only do business in full stacks of commodities not in partials. The target inventory will be 1/14th of the total number of purchases over the previous week with a minimum set by the initial inventory targets for that local exchange.
Possible incentives: This will open an entire play style based on moving commodities from one local exchange to another local exchange as well as offer a ready market to both buy and sell harvested materials for crafting or harvesting focused players. The system is guaranteed to reduce the net amount of cash in the game economy though an individual can move money from lazy people to themselves. The exchanges will also make low level crafting cheaper as it will increase the availability of low level materials but will likely increase the costs of high level materials as they are easier to liquidate.
Adding Bonechips Journal /Note taker idea with their permission from:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/8056/in-game-journal-notepad
Tool: In-Game Player Journal (Note organizer)
Purpose: An in-game note taking tool that is usable in full screen mode.
Game Mechanics:
* Tabs (Ability to create new, delete, and rename)
* Rich Text Editor (so you can change font size, bold, italic, color text, tables, numbered lists, etc)
* Pick-able background page image (Plain white, parchment, lined, etc. Additional themes could be added via UI Authors)
* Reminder option. The ability to set a reminder on a tab for future reference.
* Date/Time stamp button. Click it to enter current date and time before you start typing your note/entry.
* Have an button on the Chat Window(s): Send visible text to a new Note Tab (see below)
Trasaks additions:
The tool could be created as an XML document generator utilizing all the flags already present in simple XML code. If done in this way the XML code could displayed easily in an in-game ui window and be read out of game in a browser. It may be worth looking at adding the ability to either browse through your past screen shots or take a new screen shot to be immediately be imported into the Journal. XML will also allow you to add links to other notes within a Journal for better organization.
Possible incentives: Keeping the note taking tool in-game allows players to remain in full screen mode will reading and taking notes. This will be extra beneficial for those playing on laptops without access to a second monitor. Depending on VRs stance on player created content being uploaded to the game servers the Journal tool could actually be turned into something akin to a player made newspaper, heading on your merchant’s sale interface, or your P-Harmony page.
Thank you for the permission to post this Bonechip, it’s a good idea in my opinion.
Trasak
Another fun one but not super profound.
Tool: Scavenger Hunt
Purpose: A player created, setup and run party game/ quest.
Game Mechanics: The organizers goes to an NPC or device to start the hunt setup. The interface has a spot to say how many steps, the time window the hunt will be active, and an invitation option: Physical invitation, Friends list invitation, guild invitation. Each step has a slot to place an item in and a text box to write the clue to get to the marker. The invitation includes the first clue which includes active link name of the item you must have in your inventory to read the clue on the first marker. The final slot has the option of having a bag of rewards where each person can take one item until they are gone.
The items are not consumed when the organizer creates the hunt, this will allow for expensive hunt items, with the exception of the rewards bag items. The organizer then runs around the world dropping the markers at their desired location, with the option of editing the clue for the marker when it is dropped. Once all the markers are placed the organizer can create the invitations and either have them mailed out or hand them out personally.
The invitation will have a start and end time of the hunt. At the start of the time window the first clue will become visible on the invitation. The contestant acquires one of the possible items and heads out to find the 1st marker. When the contestant gets close to the first marker the invitation checks for the item, if it is present then the invitation clue changes to the clue for the second marker and so on.
At the end of the time window the markers stop working and the organizer has a short amount of time to retrieve the rewards bag for any unclaimed rewards.
Possible incentives: Seems like fun.
Two idea's today that are tied together and will lead to a third when I have time to finish writing it up. These are more about inventory and bank management.
Tool: Bag Tag
Purpose: Create both a icon and a written tag on a container to help organize both inventories and bank spaces – possibly with an in container inventory list.
Game Mechanics: Containers have selector for an overlay icon along with a short alpha numeric tag. The icon would sit in the foreground on the object inventory image in the upper left corner and the text would align with the bottom of the image. Right clicking on the container object will have an edit tag button that lets one select the visual tag and edit the text.
Possible incentives: Adding some form of tag to containers will help players organize their inventory and bank at a glance without needing to open each container to see what is inside. If bags are dumped back into ones inventory after retrieving their corpse having icons on the bag will also help in getting back up and running after a death.
Tool: Giant Packing Crate - Sealed Containers
Purpose: Turn a container into a locked object that can be put into other containers.
Game Mechanics: Either a special container that can be sealed or a normal container at a special location. Right clicking on the bag will have a seal option with some appropriate consequence. When sealing the container one has an opportunity to set the identifier tag on the sealed container. Once sealed the container becomes an object you can inspect to see the identifier and the list of inventory items with a way to inspect the items. The sealed container can then be placed in other containers, perhaps only large bank trunks rather than inventory backpacks.
Possible incentives: Sealed Containers can be used by crafters to assemble sets of gear for clients and once completed seal them into one object to keep the items together and limit the bank space taken up by orders. Sealing containers can also be very useful for storing stockpiles of crafting commodities as well as keep sakes that do not have game benefits but players are emotionally attached to and do not want to abandon.
If inventory management is a significant portion of the game and what to keep is important then the sealable bags can be one use items or consume a one use item to seal a normal bag so as to not be cost free. I can also see a sealed bag taking an entire character inventory space and can only be put into other containers in a bank where huge storage containers can be places. These giant packing crates can become something special that carpenters make. They can also have significant weight so it is not practical to carry more than one. This leads even further to an interesting idea of using a trade caravan to move a large number of crates from one bank to another.
Trasak said:Two idea's today that are tied together and will lead to a third when I have time to finish writing it up. These are more about inventory and bank management.
Tool: Bag Tag
Purpose: Create both a icon and a written tag on a container to help organize both inventories and bank spaces – possibly with an in container inventory list.
Game Mechanics: Containers have selector for an overlay icon along with a short alpha numeric tag. The icon would sit in the foreground on the object inventory image in the upper left corner and the text would align with the bottom of the image. Right clicking on the container object will have an edit tag button that lets one select the visual tag and edit the text.
Possible incentives: Adding some form of tag to containers will help players organize their inventory and bank at a glance without needing to open each container to see what is inside. If bags are dumped back into ones inventory after retrieving their corpse having icons on the bag will also help in getting back up and running after a death.
Tool: Giant Packing Crate - Sealed Containers
Purpose: Turn a container into a locked object that can be put into other containers.
Game Mechanics: Either a special container that can be sealed or a normal container at a special location. Right clicking on the bag will have a seal option with some appropriate consequence. When sealing the container one has an opportunity to set the identifier tag on the sealed container. Once sealed the container becomes an object you can inspect to see the identifier and the list of inventory items with a way to inspect the items. The sealed container can then be placed in other containers, perhaps only large bank trunks rather than inventory backpacks.
Possible incentives: Sealed Containers can be used by crafters to assemble sets of gear for clients and once completed seal them into one object to keep the items together and limit the bank space taken up by orders. Sealing containers can also be very useful for storing stockpiles of crafting commodities as well as keep sakes that do not have game benefits but players are emotionally attached to and do not want to abandon.
If inventory management is a significant portion of the game and what to keep is important then the sealable bags can be one use items or consume a one use item to seal a normal bag so as to not be cost free. I can also see a sealed bag taking an entire character inventory space and can only be put into other containers in a bank where huge storage containers can be places. These giant packing crates can become something special that carpenters make. They can also have significant weight so it is not practical to carry more than one. This leads even further to an interesting idea of using a trade caravan to move a large number of crates from one bank to another.
Maybe allow players to toggle the color of backpacks/containers (if dyes aren't in game) to help players with at-a-glance organization. This was a notable method of organization in UO.
Don't know how I feel about the packing crate. It's certainly a neat, creative idea though.
Kaen said:Maybe allow players to toggle the color of backpacks/containers (if dyes aren't in game) to help players with at-a-glance organization. This was a notable method of organization in UO.
Don't know how I feel about the packing crate. It's certainly a neat, creative idea though.
Some way to mark bags was really what I was aiming for. Main reason I thought to add icons and or text was to be able to customize my bags without replacing them. This is all of course assuming that PROTF will have a slot based EQ style inventory rather than something similar to a weight bases Skyrim style inventory.
I have an interesting enough idea about inventory and encumbrance that I may make my own thread to discuss.
Bonechip said:
Trasak said:This is all of course assuming that PROTF will have a slot based EQ style inventory rather than something similar to a weight bases Skyrim style inventory.
99.9% sure it will be "EQ Style" based in the screenshots that we have seen so far:
EQ style slot based inventory is what has been shown in the videos up to this point. I made a thread focused on the idea of switching to a single backpack weight/volume system that I prefer, at least stylistically.
Trasak said:Bonechip said:
Trasak said:This is all of course assuming that PROTF will have a slot based EQ style inventory rather than something similar to a weight bases Skyrim style inventory.
99.9% sure it will be "EQ Style" based in the screenshots that we have seen so far:
EQ style slot based inventory is what has been shown in the videos up to this point. I made a thread focused on the idea of switching to a single backpack weight/volume system that I prefer, at least stylistically.
Do you mean like an early UO style of inventory? I wouldn't be opposed to that. :P I doubt they will deviate from the photo shown above though. But who knows?
This one infringes on both in game economy mechanics and quasi player housing but I’ll post it anyway because I’m geeked out about it since I added it to the previous player built city idea but need not be attached to it.
Tool: Consignment Shop and Live Auction
Purpose: A local, in person, visual, consignment merchant.
Game Mechanics: Players can go to market places around Terminus to find various Consignment merchants. These merchants will have shelves and tables full of good for sale. When you approach a Consignment Merchant with an item she will tell you the price the last 5 versions of that item sold for and the 5 cheapest currently in inventory, if any. Next she will ask you how much you want to start the price at, what your lowest price is and the time increment for price reductions.
The consignment merchant will charge a fee based on how long your time increments are and how many there are. The consignment merchant will also take an additional commission if the item is sold before it reaches the lowest prices and that commission will not drop the value below the lowest price target. A portion of the listing fee will be refunded to cover the commission for each time increment remaining when sold.
Once listed the item will show up physically on the merchant’s shelves, if there is remaining space. The shelves and weapon wracks will be organized by type and tier with the highest average sold price item in the top left position, resorting as things are sold. If there are multiples of the same item only the currently cheapest version will appear on the displays for purchase. Mousing over the item on the shelves will display the item stats as well as the current sale price. The consignment store will need to be fairly large with mostly empty shelves to start but eventually the consignment merchant will simply be out of space. There could also be a high value consignment merchant that only accepts items of significant value and a pawn shop for the super cheap items. Additionally the Consignment store will not accept for sale raw materials, stackable items or perishables.
Potentially the Consignment merchant could actually run scheduled live auctions, it may even be what happens to all items not sold by the end of their final time increment. This will encourage players not to list items with unreasonable minimum prices and will help clear shelf space if worthless items are clogging up the slots. The high value consignment store will have the option to abstain from the auction. The standard consignment store has an auction starting price half the minimum list price the first time it is put up for auction, 25% the second time it goes up for auction and the vendor price the final time. If the item fails to sell at the end of the third auction then the item is “vendored” and that is all the money the player receives. The Pawn Shoppe Auction has a starting bid of the vendor price the first time an item is offered for auction and is vendored at the end of the auction if unsold.
All unsold items in a live auction will enter a silent auction for an hour after the close of an auction to prevent an item from not selling due to being missed, this auction would be a standard list button bid system. These auction times will be based on a minimum number of items reaching the end of their listing time and the auction time will be set for the average posting time of those items. Items posted more than 6 hours away from the time of the first scheduled auction will be split into a second auction with its own average list time. Once either list hits the minimum number of items the auction is scheduled for the next day and the item list and starting bids are posted. That way the live auctions will be roughly localized by which time zone placed the items in the consignment shop.
Possible incentives: The consignment merchant is intended to be a counter point to the Commodities Exchange proposed earlier. This will provide for a very tactile player to player trading system that forgoes the eye strain of chat spam without resorting to a standard auction house. Potentially players could still hang out near the consignment merchants to chat spam vendor as well without paying the merchant fees.
disposalist said:Man @Trasak you are being prolific with the ideas! Good stuff.
I very much like the idea of players setting up NPCs in towns or even creating trading posts in the middle of nowhere that grow into towns.
Thank you. You may guess that in some ways my true hobby is theory crafting. I consider myself a bit of a garage inventor that has also gotten to build my thirst to design into a career. As such I’m trying to help train myself to write down my ideas before they melt away by updating this thread and the AI thread weekly. I have a Galaxy Tab A with S-Pen filled with hand sketches and short hand descriptions for ideas but I so rarely go back and really develop them.
Anyway my hope is that one or two of these ideas help improve the game or at least spur the developer’s thoughts in a different direction for everyone’s benefit. My vain hope is that the VR guys have a love/hate relationship with this thread, feeling that it is filled with good ideas but that it keeps changing their design document or adding to their To-Do list. Realistically though I share because I enjoy being creative in a system design sense.
Trasak
Kaen said:I know auction houses and the like have been discussed several times, as have alternatives, but I just wanted to toss this idea into the mix and see what people think...
For this idea, would like to keep any discussion solely on the idea presented below (like or don't like, plus any additions to the idea) and not on auction houses.
So, imagine an empty town (moderately sized, but maybe not as big as the normal cities).
There are only a few basic vendors here. Food, drink, sell your vendor trash, etc...
There are guards throughout the city with their own faction.
The city is neutral to all (initially), but building up your faction will allow for several perks.
The city is divided into districts and full of empty booths and stores.
Players who have worked on their faction can purchase booths (weekly money sink) where they can place a single 8 slot vendor.
Players with MAX faction can purchase a shop (weekly money sink) where they can place two 10 slot vendors.
(Player vendors cannot hold items in bags.)
(Maybe have different sized shops available?)
All booths and shops can be customized by the owner: Wall decor, carpets, tapestries, a sign out front, etc...
Maybe have different "districts" to help organize the shops/booths so that we don't end up with players having to run all over the place with little idea of what vendors have what (like in UO).
Allow porting classes to port directly to this city.
Have the city located in a relatively central location. A large island between the continents, maybe?
My hope is that something fun like this could become the main player-market / AH / EC tunnel trade hub.
It's neither fully fleshed out nor perfect, but I'd love to discuss this a bit and hear some ideas!
You guys are all great, these are all some fantastic ideas that really contribute to 'world' rather than just 'game'. That's huge for me - anything beyond 'kill mob, get exp, lvl, use new gear' is a step towards broadening the spectrum of experiences. A long term virtual home needs to incorporate this portion of the activity spectrum to persist as a virtual world. Thanks for all the great thought that went in to all of these concepts.
Kyridel said:You guys are all great, these are all some fantastic ideas that really contribute to 'world' rather than just 'game'. That's huge for me - anything beyond 'kill mob, get exp, lvl, use new gear' is a step towards broadening the spectrum of experiences. A long term virtual home needs to incorporate this portion of the activity spectrum to persist as a virtual world. Thanks for all the great thought that went in to all of these concepts.
You have spotted the main focus for this thread, adding enduring content that has little to nothing to do with main line level/gear progression. I also have been enjoying everyone’s ideas and hope more feel up to presenting them. I am sure there are some real golden ideas bouncing around in people’s heads.
shuk said:-Player Bosses- A player gets some type of token or consumable item that allows them to periodically create an AI version of themselves that will fight using the stats and abilities of the player that made it - essentially creating an independent npc version of themselves. Now of course this must have some restrictions to prevent all kinds of creative griefing opportunities that this might present. Perhaps this mob will require a certain sum of loot value to create, which drops for whoever kills it.
-Buried Treasure- Players can create buried treasure for other players to find - perhaps with some kind of reward/faction/xp for participating parties.
Shuk,
On the player bosses where do you think they should go? A specific sudo pvp zone? Or are you thinking that some area's or dungeons will draw from the player population in some way to generate it? If player cities come in and if they go with the idea that mobs will periodically attack the city It would be cool if the guards were all shadow mimics of the players who live in the city. Its likely that your average player will actually be weaker than your average mob of the same level so for them to be a "boss" the HP and damage would need to be scaled up.
On the Buried Treasure idea I kind of was going for that with the scavenger hunt idea and definitely think something similar to the two concepts would be interesting to have.
Trasak
Trasak said:Shuk,
On the player bosses where do you think they should go? A specific sudo pvp zone? Or are you thinking that some area's or dungeons will draw from the player population in some way to generate it? ...
Trasak
I admit my initial thought was a rather literal and rudimentary idea for player made content - just something fun that players could set up for other players. In my mind it's a 1 shot single spawn or camp populated by placed "pc bosses" that could then be fought for loot/xp. Maybe allowed in just some zones or particular camp spots. Like say if you cleared a shadow camp you could then replace the spawns with your own pc shadows.
I wanted the player to take an active roll in their placement, loot tables, and perhaps even AI personality.... but decidedly not be pets/companions of any sort. Just a way to sort of passively show off your guy in a PvE environment and get some kind of reward for it. Maybe you get xp for the number of people your shadow defeats, or some such thing.
disposalist said:Man @Trasak you are being prolific with the ideas! Good stuff.
I very much like the idea of players setting up NPCs in towns or even creating trading posts in the middle of nowhere that grow into towns.
Maybe that could be the whole concept for the first Pantheon, ground breaking expansion. No towns, just land *queue's "Magnificent 7" theme music* The Wide Frontier! where both PC's and Monsters strive to carve out a niche. Pure sandbox. Racial players could set up small camps that may become outposts and then towns like Fallout4 that attracts "settlers" but those are actual NPC's good AND bad from the home towns-*blink* or the NPC's children ...making inroads to progeny? maybe? on an AI level... to test the concept of course.
Maybe a small expansion, it doesnt have to be too big. Maybe that would be a step in solving the AH riddle and re-add the thrill of "making the run" to the outposts or Mail!. sorry I liked mail, it was a first easy confidence building quest. Possibly items, too/caravans. A place to spend RL months while it starts and grows.
Manouk said:Maybe that could be the whole concept for the first Pantheon, ground breaking expansion. No towns, just land *queue's "Magnificent 7" theme music* The Wide Frontier! where both PC's and Monsters strive to carve out a niche. Pure sandbox. Racial players could set up small camps that may become outposts and then towns like Fallout4 that attracts "settlers" but those are actual NPC's good AND bad from the home towns-*blink* or the NPC's children ...making inroads to progeny? maybe? on an AI level... to test the concept of course.
Maybe a small expansion, it doesnt have to be too big. Maybe that would be a step in solving the AH riddle and re-add the thrill of "making the run" to the outposts or Mail!. sorry I liked mail, it was a first easy confidence building quest. Possibly items, too/caravans. A place to spend RL months while it starts and grows.
A fair number of the ideas proposed here really are better suited for a mini expansion. A good housing system is a real beast to implement. I could see a combination of minimally customizable townhouses for rent, mobile temporary outposts more like collective camps, and player generated cities at limited number of open world nodes. All have good uses and can very easily coexist. I fondly remember the SWG player cities that became hubs for trading and missions, if only SWG had actual content.
I’m definitely looking forward seeing what else gets decided about player trading tools that are available with launch. Its likely that most of our suggestions will be redundant.
I really love the idea of the "Auction House" or Trading Post being a separate zone, where players can either actively auction their wares in trade or open up NPC shops.... I hate the idea of a central, automated AH, because it really takes away from the idea of actively trading with others, but being able ot raise rep and open a shop for a gold money sink is an AWESOME way to fix having to be sitting there for hours to sell wares when you could be more productive. Basically, that level of create-a-trading-post idea really makes me happy.
I'd love to see something server-side that's like a guild-leader meeting? Similar to the Round Table in Log Horizon, where guild leaders meet to discuss the ideal community they want in their cities. It'd be harder to regulate, but something like this could help to negate a toxic community that EQ never really had but MMOs since have a lot. It can also be something for GMs to "sneak" into, so they can catch what the players want to do. This round table idea can be used to create city-wide events that multiple guilds could participate in, such as a crafting day for players, or low level buffing all day. Basically, to encourage those guild-specific events we all get to do for fun, but expanding it to more than just one guild. It's not a very fleshed out idea and I think I mostly just rambled, but I'd be willing to help turn it into a more real concept.
In celebration of spring, that has not actually arrived yet where I am, I bring you another frivolous idea. I am starting to think I should break these down into: Activities, Art Objects, Housing Options, and Commerce but I would constantly be breaking my own guidelines so I’ll skip It for now.
Tool: Flower/Herb arrangements
Purpose: A purely decorative composite object viewable from inventory or in play housing/guildhalls/market stall.
Game Mechanics: A player crafted vase or bouquet holder of some type has an arrangement 2d circles. Each circle can contain one flower or herb. You can set the axial rotation of the flower object and the z location of the flower object within a reasonable range of the holder. Assuming that all flower objects have some form of 3D art with an axis assigned a player could assemble a group of flower objects into a single stable object that can either be held in the characters hand or be placed in the world. It might be nice to have some method of replicating the design with a recipe but that may defeat the novelty of a hand arranged display.
It may be beneficial to have a center point axis that is truly vertical then each surrounding ring of flower object slots are angled away from the top of the center location but a concentric bottom point.
Possible incentives: This is again another player created art object using already in game art objects. Extra bonus points if the plants and objects used in a hand held bouquet actually provide some form of combat, crafting or NPC social interaction bonus.
Isn't the idea of "player driven content" that it's more emergent - in that the players themselves come up with the concepts/content, not the devs?
If a developer creates situations or systems that are intended for players to partake in, within foreseen parameters, then isn't that developer driven content, by definition? Aren't the players reacting to the content in those cases, not creating it? Wouldn't that become more "player-focused content", instead of "player driven"?
To me, when a developer creates an area, or a set of systems, and then players begin using those areas and/or systems in ways they weren't specifically envisioned for (though not against the ToS to do so), but creates, or enhances the experience for the players... that's more player driven.
Examples... Selling/Trading.
In EQ1, there's the area everyone sorta converged on which became the de facto market (I forget the name, and I never really played EQ1, but I've heard about it). That wasn't designed to be the marketplace for EQ1. The players made that decision. It came together organically. Not through encouragement, or design, by the developers.
In FFXI, there's a Ninja job. Ninja was never intended to be a Tank. Yet, because of certain skills it had, and through XI's subjob system, players found out it was very useful for tanking, through so-called "blink tanking". Basically, Ninjas in XI have a skill called Utsusemi Ichi and Utsusemi Ni. Each of these skills produce 1 or 3 "shadows". When active, the shadows take the damage of an incoming attack, instead of the character themself. It made it ideal for some situations where enemies have a slower attack rate, as it meant White Mages didn't have to heal as much. It was situational, but it worked. This was never by design, and when ever players would complain or ask SquareEnix to adjust something for Ninjas for tanking, their reaction was "Ninjas aren't designed to be tanks!". That wasn't SE deciding that role.. Players came to it organically, through experimentation, trial and error. By the same token, Samurai, which *was* originally intended to be a Tank, almost never was, again.. based on how the players perceived and utilized the Job and its skills.
Also in FFXI (sorry, this is the game I have the most knowledge of lol), there was a sales tax within Jeuno, the main hub city of XI for quite a long time. So, in order to avoid the tax when selling in their personal bazaars, players would gather outside the Jeuno zone line in one of the 3 main connecting areas - Batallia Downs, Rolanberry Fields or Sauromugue Champaign. The chosen zone differed from server to server (it was Sauromugue Champaign on my original server, Pandemonium). That's player driven, in that it's not what SE had intended or designed, but what players themselves came up with. The game didn't direct or require it, but accomodated it.
And so on...
To me, that's more player-driven content.. It's when players themselves devise and execute something that wasn't originally intended or envisioned by the devs. Doing stuff as it's envisioned by the devs is really just playing the game as intended, however "open" it may seem.
The most fertile grounds for such a thing, in my experience anyway, has always been when the developer creates the world, establishes the "ground rules" for the world to operate within, and then "gets out of the way".
Lineage 2 is an example of a MMORPG where the devs did this. Or at least did prior to Goddess of Destruction/F2P, which destroyed the game as far as I'm concerned. But anyway... They created the world, established the rules of the world/game, and then got out of the way, letting the players drive more of their own experience. It led to far more organic, and truly player-driven experiences within that game, in myriad ways.
By comparison, TERA Online which, incidentally, began as Lineage 3 (the game/code was stolen from NCSoft and turned into TERA... can find out about it via Google if so interested :p) feels a lot like Lineage 2, but isn't even remotely as player-driven. With TERA, they chose to take a more hands-on approach, and so much of what players would have done organically in Lineage 2, was now directed and micro-managed by the game itself. As a result, TERA greatly lacks the, organic and truly player-driven experience that Lineage 2 had. Consequently, it's not nearly as dynamic or engaging, at least not to me.
So, I guess my suggestion for "player driven content" would be for VR to establish the world, establish the rules and parameters of it.. and then stay out of the way as much as possible, so the players *can* organically create player-driven own gameplay/experiences.
Anyway.. .my two cents on the subject :p
Semantics aside there is a limit to the length of a Thread title. While I could write an entire paper abstract outlining the purpose of the thread and the guidelines for posting I choose to keep it simple and just post ideas I had.
I guess possible different thread titles could be:
Brainstorming tools to enable player generated content.
Brainstorming tools with a high efficiency replay ability vs development time ratio.
Or even “Trasak talks to himself about his ideas of the day”
I would love to hear any ideas for tools that you could contribute to this thread but I feel any posts arguing semantics or the differences between player driven content and emergent game play would be better suited to a thread on that topic.
Trasak
