Forums » Crafting

Progressive Crafting and role of New Players

    • 4 posts
    August 12, 2017 8:00 AM PDT

    Hello All,

    I was wondering what the thoughts were on crafting, with the way it presented to us, and the idea of an expanding player base 2-3 years down the road. If the game is successful, which we all hope, and crafting is going to be progressive and resources limited to begin, then I see an issue with the addition of new players into an established higher end economy.

    What I mean is:

    If crafting is progressive and the majority of the population has played 1-2 years, then what is the role of new players joining the game in a crafting system that has already evolved past their needs to progress up to the majority and conversily what benefits do new players have to the majority in terms of crafting if we have all already moved well beyond where they are.

    Why I believe this is an issue, is because the idea of the MMO is to continue to gain new support from players while at the same time maintaining the support of the majority. There are many games (MMOs) that I am sure everyone can think of that have attempted various methods to help make the player economy efficient for both groups of players. Yet, if the economy progresses to the next level of items it creates a void and cashless grind fest for the new or casual players to catch up to the majority.

    I was wondering what efforts were going to be made to ensure that the both new and old players will need each other and find use for each other within the economic system, thus keeping new players longer and bringing in an expansive population instead of the opposite.

    • 1545 posts
    August 12, 2017 8:46 AM PDT

    I hope there will be plenty of consumables that crafters that can make that are useful for all levels of players. That would ensure that new players coming into the game after a couple of years will have useful things to make that are always required.

    The problem with crafting in games like EQ is that once you have a few really high level crafters per server they can dominate the market because the items they make never get destroyed. If there are lots of consumables that can be crafted then players will always be on the look out for crafters to keep refreshing their supplies of the items.

    Also don't forget that items will be able to be upgraded by crafters so even if you get a really nice item drop from a named or a raid you'll still need to employ a crafter to upgrade it to make it as good as it can be.

    I think new crafters coming into the game will have plently to do as they level and I hope that their services will still be required in the high end of the game. But you are right it is hard to make sure that players coming into the game a couple of years after the launch of the game have a job in the economy and I think it is important to make sure that they can make money from crafting in the same way as the people who have been playing since day 1.

    • 251 posts
    August 12, 2017 11:43 AM PDT

    When you only have a few Pies to make, you have the free time, and energy, to harvest your own ingredients.  But when your Pie output spikes, then you need to start outsourcing those ingredients to up-and-coming Pie makers.  That way you have time to get your cookbook to market, meet your Pie quota, and hopefully by the time your book hits the best-seller list, and your Pies are world famous, you will have cut the ribbon on your School of the Pie Arts.

    Then you can afford to get your Kobe Gnome farm up and running.  Before you know it, that tiny plump herd of Gnomes will be more than you can handle, and it will be time to hire on a steady crew, and eventually a new management staff.  With your well oiled Gnome farm supplying the culinary school with the finest ingredients, you can retire back to your study and begin your experimental stage anew. 

    Because the thrill of the hunt is what truly compelled you to make all of this a reality.  You've got plenty of drive left in ya, and a school full of disciples coming for your crown.  That next big Pie filling is out there.  Somewhere...  And you can already taste it.


    • 52 posts
    September 22, 2017 10:08 PM PDT

    I think a three tiered system linking Harvesting to Crafting would help solve the issue. This is from one of my game design docs.

    RAW: These are raw materials that are mined, harvested, gathered, or otherwise collected by the general population which includes the PC. PCs can gather most RAW materials.
    REFINED: RAW goods are processed to add value, make them easier to transport, work with, or consume. PCs may have skills that allow them to REFINE items.
    MANUFACTURED: These items have been converted and combined to make items that do not occur naturally. Specialized PCs may have skills that allow them to MANUFACTURE items.

    Leather: Need SKINNING skill to harvest from kills.
    Light Hide (RAW):
        Used to make Light Leather.
        Skill: SKINNING 1.
        Production: Collected from animals with soft leather hides. Rabbits, foxes, etc.
        Consumption: Used by TANNERS.

    Light Leather (REFINED):
        Used to make handbags, light backbacks, and other soft leather items.
        Skill: TANNING 1.
        Production: Light Leather <- Light Hide(1).
        Consumption: Used by TAILORS to make a varity of items.

    Handbag (MANUFACTURED)
        Used to carry small items.
        SKILL: TAILOR 1.
        Production: Handbag <- Light Hide, Copper Studs (4).
        Consumption: Used by PCs.

    Master crafters would not want to spend their time gathering RAW or maybe even REFINED materials, but would by them in bulk from new players that may be hard pressed to kill a large rabbit.
    The new player knows there's a market for his low level kills and doesn't have to store the pelts until he has gained the crafting skill to use them.
    Mid-level players REFINE items to sell to master crafters when they haven't gained the skill to make MANUFACTURED items with those matts.

    Anyways, my 2 coppers.



    • 1528 posts
    September 25, 2017 5:41 PM PDT

    I'm not saying it's the best way to handle this problem, but one thing that I have seen done in level-based crafting systems in the past is to require low-level items as components in the construction of higher-level items.

    Theory goes like this:

    - Inventory space is limited.

    - Crafters will gather materials for the things they can craft right now.

    - As crafters level up, they'll have to stop hoarding materials for lower-level things because, inventory space.

    - Therefore new crafters can make the things that higher-end crafters need and have a market to sell to.

    That said, in practice it never seems to work out very cleanly.  Even in games that do this I still see lots of feast/famine situations in the markets, and there seem to always be ways to get around having to rely on other players.

    One of the best things about SWG's crafting system wasn't the crafting at all - it was the dynamic nature of resources.  You could be the most established weaponsmith on your server, and then one day, some copper could spawn that instantly made all your stuff second-rate.  And that awesome copper you were hoarding?  It wont' last forever.  It wasn't that extreme, of course - but it meant that all it took for a new crafter to be competitive was a good resource spawn.  Progression, as a crafter, was really more about increasing the variety of items you could make, although it did also give you more ability to customize what you were making.