This idea keeps getting stuck in my head for some reason so I'll just post it here and see what you guys think as a possible idea for a future class in Pantheon should we ever go there. This class is a bit of a hybrid caster class and will play a bit different from some others in that it will be similar to the EverQuest (EQ) Bard in a way. However, the class at its core is a bit of a combination of a wizard and an enchanter, but also has its own line of specific spells to help set them apart from the others.
Spells and Skills
The first thing about this class is that it will have an assortment of damage spells from the wizard as well as some of the lesser crowd control abilities and mana regeneration skills from the enchanter. For example, if the Enchanter's top mana regen skill is Kei, the top mana regen for the spellweaver is Clarity. The spell weaver will also have a very limited number of portals available, maybe half or less that of the wizard and in slightly different locations.
Additionally, spellweavers can also weave short-term beneficial spells that can absorb or reflect mana attacks as well as enhance the magical attacks of allies. These skills will have limits as they could be far too powerful to just chain cast on allies.
I haven't thought of everything here but I've got a few base ideas and some other potentially fun ones, so keep reading, the fun and chaotic stuff comes later.
How it Plays
This is the first thing different about this class. Where you would click a spell and wait for the cast bar on the wizard or enchanter, the spell weaver will have to literally weave the spells; much like an EQ bard would twist songs. This makes it a bit more of a twitch class to some extent, so it may not be for some people, but this way of casting plays into the other aspects of the class that I'll get into later. That's the fun, interesting, and sometimes unpredictable part.
When the spell weaver casts a spell, they'll have to hit a number of keys during the process that allows them to weave the spell into existence. Think of it as the hand motions from Doctor Strange. But to make things more interesting, maybe the spell weaver decides instead of casting one spell, they'll weave more than one together. So this increases the difficulty of the weaving process as well as the risk.
As an example, let's say that the spell weaver decides to cast Clarity (mana regen) and weave it with a wizard nuke. Casting the mana regen might require the spell weaver to weave a spell using 3 key prompts. Adding the nuke would increase it to 7 and slightly increase the prompt speed. If the spell weaver successfully completes the weave, they learn that new woven spell and the effect from it is instead of a regular nuke and mana regen buff becomes a mana regen buff alone with a nuke that drains the enemy's mana. Alternatively, if depending on how badly the spell weaver botches the spell cast while weaving, it can be anything as simple as a fizzle to inadvertently inverting the spell and nuking your own party, draining their mana, and giving the enemy a mana regen buff. Woops.
The spellweaver can choose to chain a longer list of spells for more powerful effects or potentially more disastrous results. To make it a bit fun, for each additional spell added to the chain over 3 add chance that the final weave will cause a catastrophic effect instead. Say about a 5-10% for each spell above 3. So say you go with 6 spells and succeed. At 5% you would still have a 15% chance that catastrophe will strike instead of success. That can keep going too crazy in check.
One really chaotic and fun element I wanted to toss into this class was a line of completely unpredictable spells that could have a chance to do some fun or catastrophic stuff. The fun stuff about spell weaving is that it can at times be unpredictable. So here goes.
Let’s say there is a main line of spells that increase in power as you level up and get each new version. Let's say that 99% of the time that this Chaos line of spell will have a chance to do something normal within the fight specific to the class. It's kind of like a random box of things that can benefit the group or hinder them if you mess up. Casting it successfully might heal the party, restore mana, call down a powerful nuke on the enemy, cast a protective shield on the group, banish a foe (or ally if you mess up), or maybe summon a temporary pet ally to aid you in combat. However, that other 1% is where the chaos gets its name. And we want to keep it that low or lower because what comes next could be a bit...catastrophic.
On a successful cast, and only a successful cast, there is a 1% chance or less that one of a few things could happen. And those are as follows:
* Gift of the Gods: The gods smile upon your exceptional control of the magical arts and double your spell effectiveness by 100% for the next 1-2hrs (server time only)
* Fury of the Gods: (.5% chance or less) The gods smile upon you and strike down all enemies you are currently engaged in combat with, regardless of strength, level, or type.
* Wrath of the Gods: (.5% chance or less and can't be cast inside of or within a given distance of cities) You inadvertently anger the gods with your spell and they strike down everyone and everything in the surrounding area, including you, your allies, and anyone else unfortunate enough to be nearby.
* Hell Unleashed: (.1% chance on success and can only happen once every few months per server) You inadvertently open to a forgotten realm and a powerful creature of great evil. This amped up creature is a bit of a behemoth and starts smashing each and every zone until someone stops it or he flattens every zone at least once. And stopping it won't be easy as it's meant to be a bad ass, hence the .1% chance of happening.
* Armagedon: (.01% cast chance and limited to only once per week per server) Playing with planar power is dangerous, and you just ignited a small portion of it kiliing all PCs and NPCs in the zone. Good job.
Along with that maybe have some crafting material that can only be enhanced by spellweaving to add a touch more to the class or a summoned mystery box that can be given to players. Once opened it can grant a temporary item that may increase XP, give a buff, or kill youdepending on how lucky you are.
Anywho, just an idea I had to mind dump. Let me know what you think or have some fun and build on or adjust it. Later.
This makes it a bit more of a twitch class to some extent
This is something they are actively trying to avoid. Building a class centered around twitch mechanics doesn't sound like a Pantheon class.
Also, this doesn't seem like a new class. this just seems like a way for someone to play DPS while still playing an enchater because they want to be DPS but still wanted in a group. It has no new identity. It doesn't do anything differently. Its a pure int caster that just steals spells from two existing classes. Its a class that is designed to fill multiple roles as a core design.
There really isn't a lot of room for new classes as it is. Most other "classes" would be nothing more than copies of existing classes.
The only real choices for new classes are:
Berzerker - Rage fueled melee fighter. Think increadible hulk rage monsters
Beastlord - Monk/Shaman hybrid who's role is Support.
Spellsword/Spellarrow/or whatever name - An Int caster melee hybrid. A cross between a rogue and wizard or summoner or enchanter, not sure which, but their spells would be used to augment the damage of themselves and their group. Minor DD spells, most of their damage augmentation would be in the form of DS, spellshields, and combat innates. Primary role of DPS. Without their innates and DS and such they would be sub par DPS. With their spells added they would break even with a ranger for DPS, leaving the pure melee rogue and monk as top melee DPS. The spells could be effective whether they use melee weapons or ranged weapons.
Chloromancer - Nature based int caster that forcuses on healing. Different from the Druid, this class doesn't actually do active healing but is passive healing through stationary pets. The chrolamncer would cast spells that would grow a plant "pet" near the group. This pet would have specific abilities dpeneding on which spell the caster used. A pet that provides Direct heals with an AE HoT (minor HoT nothing super OP), another pet would provide defensive buffs, another might provide offensive buffs. They would have a whole line of DD spells used against plants and maybe a line of poison based DoTs. The class could have maybe two pets out at once. The pets are stationary and must be recast if the group moves and would die after a period of time so they would have to be re-cast periodically. Maybe with a fairly short duration before they died.
I can't really think of anything else with its own identity. Everything else just sounds like another class under a different name or a hybrid of two classes that don't deserve a hybrid. A hybrid of two int casters isn't something we should be looking at in my opinion.
@Kellindil
Not trying to derail the thread, but I think there are other viable classes that could have a unique identity. Here is something I came up with a few months ago that I think would fit really well with Pantheon:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5163/symbiote
As far as the spellweaver goes, I don't really have much input on it other than I think the random power buffs are way out of whack. If someone could sit in town and chain cast clarity on themself with the potential to blow up a zone ... that's not good. I don't mind the idea of having random buffs or whatever but nothing that spawns epic raid bosses, kills other players, etc. Also, the 12 hour buff ... not a fan of that. Someone could just spam abilities until they got the buff and it would basically always be up.
It was just a thought I needed to get out of my head. Figured it would provide a little something to chat about. Also, I hate twitch classes but I know some folks that love the EQ style bard, which is what this was kind of derived from in the way it plays. As for the class, it's not meant to be both a chanter and a wizard but rather have some of their weaker spell types to help fill in the void of skills. Think of it like the Paladin, which is often just a warrior combined with a cleric. It will never be as good as one or the other, but it serves it's own role and can fill a slot. The Spellweaver would be more of a support class with damage and a little unorganized chaos.
I'll agree hybrid classes when in too great a number tends to do some damage to the class identity aspect. A problem many more recent MMORPGs has. Anywho, it's probably a bad idea anyway but sometimes bad ideas spawn good ideas. Who knows.
Any numbers or spells I stated were just spitballing. I don't expect anything will stick but more of a could be or fiddle with chaotic effect type stuff. Also, not that they would ever be added but those spells can't be done in towns and only once per server over a long period of time. As for the 12hr buff, it was just a nyumber. Can just as easily be an hour or two.
Come to think of it, maybe the whole class could just weave spells that begin when someone else uses a skill or spell. I duuno. I was tired when I wrote it. I'll leave the thread to the shredder.
It's always fun to try to come up with new classes. This one is a bit too all over the place with no real identity and instead cheapens other classes. It presumeably takes away from bard while at the same time steals the thunder/uniqueness from Wizard (ports) and Enchanter (strong mana regen and mez). On top of that it has the potential for godly power spikes and a class specific crafting influence?
Sign me up for 1 tank, 1 healer, 4 spellweavers at that point.
oneADseven said:@Kellindil
Not trying to derail the thread, but I think there are other viable classes that could have a unique identity. Here is something I came up with a few months ago that I think would fit really well with Pantheon:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5163/symbiote
As far as the spellweaver goes, I don't really have much input on it other than I think the random power buffs are way out of whack. If someone could sit in town and chain cast clarity on themself with the potential to blow up a zone ... that's not good. I don't mind the idea of having random buffs or whatever but nothing that spawns epic raid bosses, kills other players, etc. Also, the 12 hour buff ... not a fan of that. Someone could just spam abilities until they got the buff and it would basically always be up.
I think I missed this post. this character sounds interesting. When I said these where the only possible classes I may have misspoke. Those are the only ones I can think of and everything I had seen suggested thus far was lacking in identity.
This Symbiote though is interesting. Extending the ability to NPCs as well, the class could solo to some degree. Without SOME way to solo at least decently would make the class much to undesirable I think, but the idea is very neat and out of the box. It would give a group a good dynamic makeup. When you need an off healer you have one, but if you need extra DPS you have that as well. I could see this as a contender.
Kratuk said:It was just a thought I needed to get out of my head. Figured it would provide a little something to chat about. Also, I hate twitch classes but I know some folks that love the EQ style bard, which is what this was kind of derived from in the way it plays. As for the class, it's not meant to be both a chanter and a wizard but rather have some of their weaker spell types to help fill in the void of skills. Think of it like the Paladin, which is often just a warrior combined with a cleric. It will never be as good as one or the other, but it serves it's own role and can fill a slot. The Spellweaver would be more of a support class with damage and a little unorganized chaos.
I'll agree hybrid classes when in too great a number tends to do some damage to the class identity aspect. A problem many more recent MMORPGs has. Anywho, it's probably a bad idea anyway but sometimes bad ideas spawn good ideas. Who knows.
Any numbers or spells I stated were just spitballing. I don't expect anything will stick but more of a could be or fiddle with chaotic effect type stuff. Also, not that they would ever be added but those spells can't be done in towns and only once per server over a long period of time. As for the 12hr buff, it was just a nyumber. Can just as easily be an hour or two.
Come to think of it, maybe the whole class could just weave spells that begin when someone else uses a skill or spell. I duuno. I was tired when I wrote it. I'll leave the thread to the shredder.
I wouldn't scrap the idea just yet my friend! Always good to have people thinking about the game and sharing their mark. I only wanted to share some feedback based on my initial observation. All ideas have merit so keep up with the creative thinking! I think the idea would be a little better received if it were altered in a few ways but I still think there is some potential there. With a few tweaks, you never know! but I would definitely start with removing the possibility of killing other players or having any ability that is on a server wide timer as very few of that class would ever even be able to use such an ability ... and knowing how abilities work in Pantheon (some are extremely hard to come by) I don't think people would want to bust their tails unlocking certain abilities only to never be able to actually see them function because another person of the same class got lucky on the RNG a week or day before. Hang in there and keep it coming!
kellindil said:oneADseven said:@Kellindil
Not trying to derail the thread, but I think there are other viable classes that could have a unique identity. Here is something I came up with a few months ago that I think would fit really well with Pantheon:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5163/symbiote
As far as the spellweaver goes, I don't really have much input on it other than I think the random power buffs are way out of whack. If someone could sit in town and chain cast clarity on themself with the potential to blow up a zone ... that's not good. I don't mind the idea of having random buffs or whatever but nothing that spawns epic raid bosses, kills other players, etc. Also, the 12 hour buff ... not a fan of that. Someone could just spam abilities until they got the buff and it would basically always be up.
I think I missed this post. this character sounds interesting. When I said these where the only possible classes I may have misspoke. Those are the only ones I can think of and everything I had seen suggested thus far was lacking in identity.
This Symbiote though is interesting. Extending the ability to NPCs as well, the class could solo to some degree. Without SOME way to solo at least decently would make the class much to undesirable I think, but the idea is very neat and out of the box. It would give a group a good dynamic makeup. When you need an off healer you have one, but if you need extra DPS you have that as well. I could see this as a contender.
I appreciate that! Feel free to drop a line in that thread if you like the idea. I know we're a ways off yet before any new class will actually be considered but I think it would be an excellent option for a future expansion. I do agree their solo functionality would be weak at best but that's okay ... they would make up for it in group play and that's the primary focus of the game. I'm not much of a solo player myself and if a class like that existed, I would be really tempted to try it out.
I think spellweaver would be interesting in almost a self-chaining sort of way. Playing off the weaving of spells together, perhaps they could combine elements/spell types of up to maybe 4-6 spells, the final of which sets off a bonus based on which abilities were combined... sort of like skill chains in FFXI. Or in a way kind of like the Invoker from DoTA if you ever played that.
This was a completely raw concept when I posted it. So don't think some of those super powered accidents have to stay. This thread was more a suggestion of a class and a welcoming for anyone that wants to pull it apart and maybe tweak it to see what happens. That's pretty much it; a melting pot for an idea that may or may not create something worth considering. I certainly have not put it through all the thinking needed to even consider it a true concept. In game development terms it would be the concept formed to iteration 1. Tweaks, changes, and balances would follow.
So if anyone wants so inclined play with it a bit and feel free to tweak. See what happens.
@oneADseven I get what you're saying about skills in the earlier post. And the original (albeit roughly formed) concept was that the major skills would always work. Those few catastrophic event mishaps were severely limited because if they were not, we all know what would happen. There would indeed be people trying to cause some organized chaos by exploiting Armageddon and Hell Unleashed. As such, making them extremely rare events was the only way I could see to limit that but at the same time keeps it as a possibility.
As I said earlier, it was all purely conceptual. And with any concept it would need some heavy fleshing out before it's even close to anything useful. The sole intent was to try and get a little discussion going to attempt to create something a little new or different. Maybe something can come of it and maybe not.
As for the earlier post about a tank and 4 of these, if it was tweaked correctly that would be ill advised. While the intent was to give it some of the weaker wiz and 3enchanter type spells (it could be offshoots of them rather than direct spell lines) the intent was for those spells to be minimal. It would be like opting for an EQ druid over a cleric. While they could probably do a fair job healing, they'll never be as effective as the cleric. In the same way, a spellweaver would never out nuke a wizard nor would it be better than an enchanter. It could offer some minimal support in those two roles though.
As I said, it's just a thought. Thanks for the civil feedback.