Forums » Crafting

Which Games Should We Model Crafting After?

    • 1284 posts
    April 5, 2017 5:06 AM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Riahuf22 said:

    Aredhel said:

    I loved EQ1's crafting but not the lack of storage for components and finished products. And I really liked the way people worked together, too! I hated the EQ2 style of crafting and didn't even try. I watched (and listened to) my hubby and lost all interest in it. I loved the look of EQ2's items and the way you could manipulalte them but crafting shouldn't punish you. Break a needle, sure, but lose exp or health? NOPE!

    I did some in Vanguard, but really don't remember a lot about it. I know I've mentioned somewhere that drops shouldn't be better than the best crafted item in the game! The ability to come up with new recipes is really good, too! I've seen that somewhere....

    I want to enjoy crafting again. I want it to be relaxing and fun, beneficial and a good way to make an extra plat now and then!

    This honestly probably wont happen, and the only reason why i say this is becuase it would stop people from going to dungeons and farming camps in the long run, now maybe one slot like a face peice or something yeah sure but for all best crafting to beat all drops is honestly to me disheartening.  But back on track i can say i actually am liking what im seeing from EQ2, i have never played it due to always playing EQ1, but since it seems like it very interactive and such and keeps you on your toes with what you want to do and always do your best i think this is a very good approach and i hope we might get something like this.

    That's not entirely true. Because then what would be the point in crafting armor if it's never going to be viable? The key is basically to make it so that ingredients for those recipes can only be found in dungeons. Adventuring and fighting will still be necessary to be a crafter. It's just a matter of balance. Two different avenues to reach the same result. 

    I said it to have 1BiS for that profession, so if there are lets say 8 professions than it has 8 BiS items it can make but not for the same classes or something like this, that way it is still a very viable thing to make and you know tat not all your hard work wasn't in vain.  I'm a true Tradeskiller but i know if a profession has 2-3 BiS items than alot of people will go for that profession, for one cuase at the beginnning that is where the money will be at and than it would be over flooded to where the supply and demand is all messed up, and all the drops that is in the same slot would immediately be ignored due to knowing it is better.  But back to the topic I'm fine by one BiS ut anymore than this is simply too much for a tradeskiller to be able to do impo.

    • 23 posts
    April 7, 2017 4:38 AM PDT

    I really liked Dragon Age: Inquisiton's crafting style where you can add parts to established items. I think an upgraded version of this would be awesome for crafting.

    • 3 posts
    April 7, 2017 3:33 PM PDT

    I am not a big crafter, but one of the coolest things i have seen done with crafting in an mmo was the quill of ibis sword in AoC.  For those that never played, this crafted sword was the best in the game for multiple classes for a long time.  To make it you first had to get the recipe, which was a raid boss drop, and be the highest tier weapon smith. You then had to farm 10 very rare items that only dropped off of raid trash mobs and combine these with a lot of other mats including many rare items from dungeons. Combining all of these got you the feather of ibis (basicly a sword blank). To turn the feather into the quill, you had to craft  during the hardest raid boss of that time. While you crafted, waves of mobs would spawn which you had to tank till the dps burned them. The normal fight was already hard, but doing a crafting run was crazy. Needless to say, it took a whole guild working together to make the quill and not everyone got one. It also made crafting relevant. I don't think crafting in general in AoC was anything special, but making that sword was awesome.

    • 353 posts
    April 9, 2017 12:47 AM PDT

    Rumlox said:

    I am not a big crafter, but one of the coolest things i have seen done with crafting in an mmo was the quill of ibis sword in AoC.  For those that never played, this crafted sword was the best in the game for multiple classes for a long time.  To make it you first had to get the recipe, which was a raid boss drop, and be the highest tier weapon smith. You then had to farm 10 very rare items that only dropped off of raid trash mobs and combine these with a lot of other mats including many rare items from dungeons. Combining all of these got you the feather of ibis (basicly a sword blank). To turn the feather into the quill, you had to craft  during the hardest raid boss of that time. While you crafted, waves of mobs would spawn which you had to tank till the dps burned them. The normal fight was already hard, but doing a crafting run was crazy. Needless to say, it took a whole guild working together to make the quill and not everyone got one. It also made crafting relevant. I don't think crafting in general in AoC was anything special, but making that sword was awesome.

     

    That does sound awesome to me.  Raid based events where crafters would have to craft or do things during the encounter while the guild fights makes a lot of sense of how to tie end game raiding and crafting together.  I don't think a lot of games have done this.  Crafting loot from raids has long been a thing, but crafters having to do things and actively participate in their own unique behaviors durnig a raid encounter opens up a ton of possibilities. 

    • 1 posts
    May 10, 2017 8:56 AM PDT

    I know I am late to this thread, but the crafting in Eve Online was easily one of the best.  Ships were destroyed, so crafters constantly has work to do and a steady income.  There were entire corporations "guilds" built around farming the various materials required by industrialists "crafters".  I would love to see armor and weapons take damage and possibly be destroyed to encourage a stronger player market. 

    • 20 posts
    May 10, 2017 1:01 PM PDT

    Vanguard without a doubt. Loved that crafting system. The time involved, the manual aspect if it, the fact that it was a input and reaction based process and not just "gather mats, click combine" system made it easily my favorite. The fact that your crafting level wasn't directly tied to your overall adventuring level was another huge win. Make it hard and make it complicated, just like being good at a dungeoning class. DPS (or Tanks, etc) are everywhere, but you remember the good ones.

    Watching those action points trickle away as you worked on getting that progess and quality up, good times. Finding out that a tailor finally hit a new break point and you could upgrade you crafting clothes, etc.

    • 77 posts
    May 11, 2017 3:27 AM PDT

    SWG all the way! Vanguard a close second.

    • 126 posts
    May 11, 2017 8:18 AM PDT

    SWG crafting was great - the only game where i really enjoyed crafting. but somehow it feels like it suits only to a sci-fi setting, even if you remove harvest machines.

    i'd prefer EQ style. i liked alot that not everyone was a crafter.

    • 1541 posts
    May 11, 2017 10:45 AM PDT

    jaquwek said:

    I know I am late to this thread, but the crafting in Eve Online was easily one of the best.  Ships were destroyed, so crafters constantly has work to do and a steady income.  There were entire corporations "guilds" built around farming the various materials required by industrialists "crafters".  I would love to see armor and weapons take damage and possibly be destroyed to encourage a stronger player market. 

    Yeah. EVE Online had a pretty cool system. I especially liked the fact that crafters had a steady stream of work because their products were always wanted. That produced a really healthy crafting market that was always busy. I hope that something similar can be done in Pantheon. Whether it is something like items breaking or just requiring a crafter to keep items in tip top condition such as refreshing the amount of charges an item has I'm not sure.

    The main point is that players who are dedicated to crafting have put a lot of time and effort into crafting and so they should be rewarded by being needed at all times by other players who have no crafting skills. If that doesn't happen it would effectively mean that crafting would be a waste of time and I really don't want to see that happen.

    I also read the SWG post on crafting in that game and while I never played SWG it sounds like it had an awesome crafting system. In fact it sounds so cool I wish I had played it now just to get a sense of what the game was like back when it was popular. Ideas like that are what make me excited to see how the Pantheon system will work.

    • 72 posts
    May 11, 2017 7:21 PM PDT
    Personally, LotRO was my favorite due to the possibility of using rare spawn mobs for items that would have high chance of exceptional success or special proc. I'd like to combine that with a Monster Hunter Online paradigm of harvesting all items from monsters with a skill that are then used for situational gear like cold resistance from a pristine yeti fur from a named that I had skill to harvest. Every mob should have something to contribute with the right skill. Lastly, the minigame like vanguard would be great, but I hope for modular design and variable skins based on material as well.
    • 126 posts
    May 12, 2017 1:24 AM PDT

    which game is LotRO? so far i always thought this abbreviation is only used for lord of the rings online, but what you write doesn't fit to lotro at all.

    • 8 posts
    May 12, 2017 8:00 AM PDT

    I like FFxiv crafting for one thing, you have to use harvest since level 1 to end game to craft, this means that the very resources at the beginning of the game do not become usseless.

    I also like the games where you can do all the basic craft, but where you have to specialize in 1 specific (and it is impossible to choose several craft) to make the "big objects".

    One thing more is that with regards to the skins of the characters. It would be nice if the craftsmen specialize in a craft, could have a talent of the kind "change of appearance" that will allow to modify the appearance of an object to give him that of another. It would be a good point for the crafter, in the other games it is change usually via NPC, here it will be necessary to find a blacksmith for example to ask him to change the skin of his sword to that of another. Unlike item repair, which will block some players if they were forced to find a craftsman to fix an object of any kind, the skin is something optional (even if most players want to give their own Aspect to their avatar). The function could be done on request by exchange window where you have to place both items and where a basic price would be mentioned, I think it should be possible to increase it but not decrease it to avoid I do it a 0 and force a little trade

     


    This post was edited by Mirush at May 12, 2017 8:02 AM PDT
    • 72 posts
    May 12, 2017 4:08 PM PDT

    letsdance said:

    which game is LotRO? so far i always thought this abbreviation is only used for lord of the rings online, but what you write doesn't fit to lotro at all.

    Feel free to look at the link or blurb below.  Rare monsters are needed for some of the best items.  When I played this at launch, there were very specific monster rares for each recipe to force exceptional success as well.

    http://freetoplaymmorpgs.com/lord-of-the-rings-online/lotro-crafting-links-guide-faq-guide-draznar

    • One-shot: These are dropped recipes scrolls that can only be used once. Once you have crafted the item, you will forget the recipe. You may relearn the recipe through another scroll. All One shot recipes require special drops from named monsters. See Fizen’s Lord of the Rings Online rare crafting component list.
    • 126 posts
    May 13, 2017 1:30 AM PDT

    i see now that you were only talking about lotro in your first sentence, and i guess you should've said that you were talking about vanilla lotro. nowadays the rare crafting resources are harvested or bought from NPCs and since crafting guilds, many one-shot recipes can be easily done without the recipe and as a guaranteed critical success. anyways, since it's so easy to get your crafting to maximum, finding the recipe (for those one-shot recipes that cannot be substutited with guild recipes) is pretty much the same finding the item itself. crafting doesn't add anything interesting to that IMO. but i think the current endgame doesn't even have any one-shot recipes that give useable items (just faction items).

    it would matter if a master craftsman were as rare as in EQ. but since everyone has mastered his skill, and probably a couple more on his alts, no one cares.

    • 21 posts
    May 27, 2017 6:05 PM PDT

    Vanguard was bar none the best implemented tradeskilling put in any mmorpg i've played. 

    • 84 posts
    May 30, 2017 3:39 PM PDT

    I was a crafter in EQ, EQ2, WoW, SWG etc. My overall fav was prob a game very few ppl on here has ever heard of. Horizons. They had cargo disks you could carry your supplies on so would not be encumbered etc cargo pants and clothes to also be able to carry more. None of it was meant to fight in. You could also build houses in a unique way, up till then anyways. If someone wanted a house to be built they could have a plot with what it needed and say it needed so much wood. IF you were running by it and saw it you could click on the plot and it would tell you everything that was needed and IF you wanted to help build it you could just use the wood you had and how ever much was used you would get paid from a deposit of money the player put into the plot.

    I think Horizons was one of the best/most forward looking games I've ever seen BUT they forgot one thing. Loot. All the mobs dropped was mats for crafting. You could even play a baby dragon and progress it up to adult etc. Lots of positives I wish other games would incorporate. If you were a weaponsmith you could actually take mats to add new abilities to your weapons like I had one with a fire proc and I added lightning to it. The crafter did that. I would provide the mats and a tip IF I couldnt make it myself.

    • 73 posts
    May 30, 2017 11:59 PM PDT

    Most def, SWG! The most in depth crafting that i have ever played. Sure you can set your extractors in a location but pretty quickly that node you're harvesting was drained and you had to look for another one. Second best, EQ2.

    • 1541 posts
    May 31, 2017 3:51 AM PDT

    Senadin said:

    Most def, SWG! The most in depth crafting that i have ever played. Sure you can set your extractors in a location but pretty quickly that node you're harvesting was drained and you had to look for another one. Second best, EQ2.

    I really wish I had played SWG hearing what everyone has to say about that game. Did you ever try crafting in Vanguard though? That was pretty cool.

    • 73 posts
    May 31, 2017 4:22 AM PDT

    Vanguard was ok but compared to SWG??? nahhh Heck i would put vanguard system a 3rd behind EQ2. EQ2 crafting was good but the difference was not just crafting but the harvesting of ressources that SWG had that really sets it apart IMHO.

    • 23 posts
    May 31, 2017 6:40 AM PDT

    I haven't crafted in too many games and just getting in to tradeskills in Agnarr, but I really think they should keep crafting simple in execution; no "action" crafting where it requires a ton of focus and timing to get extra stats or risk the fail of a combine, and definitely no action-type fishing. It could be intricate in that it requires specific tools for specific actions, but again if you add too many elements people will be turned away from crafting completely. I'm not opposed to tradeskill interdependency either. A blacksmith can make needles for a tailor and pots and pans for a cook. A tailor can make animal skin parchments for a scribe maybe? It would give people more of a reason to interact and actually search out other crafters.

     

    As a final note I've always felt crafting and tradeskills should be a contrast to the rest of the game in that they're realxing. You spend a few hours in a high volume group killing stuff and really focusing and when you go back to town you should just be able to gather up some materials and craft at your own pace.

    • 79 posts
    June 1, 2017 2:57 AM PDT

    A lot of great ideas here.  One of the things I would love to see is a crafting system that allows you to create items that you can actually use.  Its very disheartening to have a craft that has items you could use, but the items required are in a zone way above your level.

    • 1541 posts
    June 1, 2017 5:27 AM PDT

    uneko said:

    I haven't crafted in too many games and just getting in to tradeskills in Agnarr, but I really think they should keep crafting simple in execution; no "action" crafting where it requires a ton of focus and timing to get extra stats or risk the fail of a combine, and definitely no action-type fishing. It could be intricate in that it requires specific tools for specific actions, but again if you add too many elements people will be turned away from crafting completely. I'm not opposed to tradeskill interdependency either. A blacksmith can make needles for a tailor and pots and pans for a cook. A tailor can make animal skin parchments for a scribe maybe? It would give people more of a reason to interact and actually search out other crafters.

    As a final note I've always felt crafting and tradeskills should be a contrast to the rest of the game in that they're realxing. You spend a few hours in a high volume group killing stuff and really focusing and when you go back to town you should just be able to gather up some materials and craft at your own pace.

    I agree that crafting should be a separate activity and have a different feel than say being in a group with 5 other people but please don't make crafting like EverQuest. EverQuest had the single most boring crafting system you could possibly imagine. I've been reading up on SWG and EQ2 because I didn't play those games as well a Vanguard which I did play and something like that would be so much better than the EverQuest system.

    I want to log in to Pantheon and think "All I want to do today is crafting". I never ever had that feeling in EverQuest. Furthermore once you did take up crafting it was hardly a good money maker because the market was flooded with similar items. From reading what Ceythos has posted in this forum in the past I'm highly confident that the crafting system we will get in Pantheon will be good because it sounds like they have some interesting and unique ideas that they are using.

    • 8 posts
    June 3, 2017 9:27 PM PDT

    I am currently only login into FFXIV to do crafting and play commerce quest. What I like about the crafting in FFXIV, and EQ2 to a lesser extent, is you actually have to react to things make decisions on which ability to use in order to maximize the quality or even just make something advanced at all. It's not just hit a button and it'll make or it won't like in original EQ. The crafting in SWG was good as I understand it but I didn't play it long enough to get into it I have just read about it and heard about it.  

    • 30 posts
    July 7, 2017 4:22 PM PDT

    I liked Horizons crafting system as well, but mainly from the building aspect of it. The game had non-instanced housing and guild areas where the players designed and built structures using wood, stone, metal, cloth, and "essence" which was extracted from living wisps. There were 5 tiers of each category and different buildings used various amounts of each resource, with higher level structures needing higher level resources. I think the main problem with the game was the early release due to not having funding to complete it, which led to bugs and an incomplete product which kind of doomed the game from the start in the long run. Overall, I enjoyed playing it, especially the crafting side.

    • 20 posts
    July 8, 2017 8:15 AM PDT

    I loved SWG before the NGE.  Thankfully they didn't change crafting system after NGE.  Resource complexity was fantastic, I agree.  

    The best thing about EQ1 was the possibility of randomly combining items and making something unknown as of yet.

    Worst thing about EQ2 was the labor process like combat.  I think to satisify those who enjoyed that interaction would be to implement an experimentation system similar to SWG.

    The completely player-driven market as in EVE-O and SWG is a definate win, as well as equipment deterioration over usage.

    Time-to-complete is a nice touch - i.e. having to wait for items in a kiln to fire for a few hours or for a ingot to purify

    Customization/attachment slots in equipment was a great aspect in SWG as well as other games as well. (Gimme the Blue ALL Materia! lol)