Forums » Crafting

Skill Outcome

    • 323 posts
    December 19, 2016 2:16 PM PST

    Okay here goes:

     Something I truly hate about crafting in a game like ArcheAge is the randomness of the outcome of my very costly endeavors.

    I can be maxed out, say, in my armor making skills and still not be able to craft the exact piece of armor that I want to craft. A master craftsman should be able to craft any piece that he/she intends to craft. Success and quality of the item crafted depends on skill and perhaps the luck of the process, but the design they intend to craft should be given, as they are a master and know what they intended.

    Now I realize that PantheonRoF is not utilizing the same kind of crafting system (thank god), but it got me thinking.

    What if I am a sword crafter? I become very good, perhaps a master at what I craft. Perhaps my skill is affected by how many swords I craft. So, I become skilled in swordcraft, but decide to further specialize in longswords. So for every longsword I craft my base skill in sword crafting goes up, but my specialization skill goes up as well. At a certain point I become adept at what I do. My swords gain some sort of bonuses because i am skilled at what I do. But what if I can pick the bonus?

    Maybe at a certain lvl of mastery I can add interesting twists to my longswords that no one else can, gaining a certain personal touch to my crafted swords that no one else has. Perhaps I want spice things up adding the zest of hot sauce to my recipe. The bonus to my sword now has a chance to proc additional damage due to spice, or even better an ultra rare proc of blindness for 15 seconds due to spice in the eyes.

    Maybe I just want my longswords to last longer than others showing a reputation of quality. Perhaps they can endure 20% longer in battle before needing repair.

    In any case, I should be able to, with expertise, at least know which item I am crafting, and be able to pick certain qualities for that item. It should never be random, unless I am a complete novice learning to pound out my first blade upon the anvil.

    • 4398 posts
    December 20, 2016 7:55 AM PST

    I don't think anyone's gonna argue with you on that haha. I don't see any reason why that shouldn't be the case. A heavy reliance on randomness in crafting is probably a sign of lazy developers. And VR does not have lazy developers so I trust most of what you suggested will come true.

    • 217 posts
    December 20, 2016 8:53 AM PST

    I can agree with the OP that there needs to be a baseline of quality of what you make, but if you grant the "improved version" then the baseline becomes the undesirable result which will become useless..(and hopefully able to be broken down by crafting to recycle the parts some).  In an effort to try understand it a bit,  could your idea be compared somewhat to sockets/aug slots (either visible to us or just a flag in code to allow a list of bonus damage or imbuing).

     

    Also, as a side note...Having only tradeskilled heavily in EQ and Lotro, I think there are pros and cons to both.   There is something very anti-climatic to know the precise number of combines I needed to do to get a skill up in lotro,  and couple that with Guild combos (the nicer weps and armor) on a 7 day timer and it became more of managing your timer to make an item, vs being able to have fun tradeskilling.

    EQ was often frustrating to take 200+ combinations for that last point to max the skill, but I felt more accomplished with the EQ approach. Historically, being a max skill in every skill in EQ wasn't possible until AA unlocked it, and even then it was a true accomplishment to be a grandmaster tradeskiller. Lastly, with recent expacs you must complete the preveious expac tradeskill chase item to complete the most current, so this will force your hand in going back to replay content that you may have not already completed.

    I hope they lean more toward EQ, but also keep player crafted armor relevant. Tradeskilled items fell off the edge of useless a few expacs into the game (armor/weps first, and later jewelry/tailoring), but did manage to come back some with the cultural armor that required a raid drop to improve, but even that has lost it's luster compared to raid equipment.

     

    • 1852 posts
    December 20, 2016 1:53 PM PST

    I don't mind getting random bonuses on gear for crafting Frits or whatever. But the core item should generally be what the crafter desired, at least after a certain skill level.

    The ingredients used should determine the base result. 

    I hope we can try different combos and learn recipes from them, instead of just buying them.

    • 296 posts
    December 20, 2016 7:25 PM PST

    I would prefer a situation like the devs have discussed: materials have different bonuses and maluses vs certain types of enemies. For example, an iron dagger is basically extremely bad compared to a silver mace vs skeletons. 

     

    Once the 'base' material gives you a certain stat spread, you could use other secondary materials to fill out the extra stats on something; perhaps certain materials negate the negative effects. Ex: silver powder as a secondary negates (20%/40%/60%/80%/100%) of the malus for not being silver base (%'s fluctuating depending on purity of silver (i.e. gatherer's skill and where he got the silver) and crafter's skill in silver weapons), but using silver powder comes at the cost of not having some other base effect. As long as secondary effects are typically situational bonuses it shouldn't be a huge issue of 'clear best one'.

     

    This gives you a massive spread of craftables where the base result doesn't vary, but skilling up allows you to use more different types of secondary results AND you can get a greater effect out of the secondary materials you can already use.

    I dunno, seems interesting but probably too difficult without making an immense number of subcrafting skills, which could be cumbersome.

    • 1852 posts
    December 21, 2016 5:11 PM PST

    I hope crafting is rich and gives us many options, with great recipes quested/adventured for or gained through trial and error instead of simple purchase. I want to be proud of achieving a rare recipe instead of everyone having the same recipes.

    • 193 posts
    December 25, 2016 7:41 AM PST

    I have always been of the opinion that there should be the core skill path that gets you up to a certain level, but from there, the talents should be gained through game play than grind/random events. I would much prefer to go into the world and track down master craftsmen/women who have a certain skill I want to learn. Faction, questing, rare ingredients, etc. should all come into play when the basics are mastered. This also lends to more diverse crafters. I do like the idea of specialisation too. Maybe even a research phase, deconstruction and reconstruction.

    I want the crafting to be everybit as involved, diverse and indepth as the general play.

    • 1852 posts
    December 25, 2016 4:23 PM PST

    Agreed.

    • 1559 posts
    December 26, 2016 6:48 AM PST

    I agree on the points, here. If a master in a craft I should be able to succeed on a master-level required,  combine.

    Some ideas:

    Instead of RNG on repeated combines, a system where skills are quested or better yet pieces of the core crafting ingredients are the same.

    To extend the baking/smithing metaphor of being able ot put spice on the blade:

    If the crafting system for smithing a hammer was universal in trhat all smithing involves 10 ingredients ( no minute sub combines). For the sake of immersion, it can be different ingredients for a blade, stilletto, short sword, curved sword (curved swords?!?)

    Ideally, it should be intuitive as to how one can add or remove spice within the 10 ingredients because the smithing process the same- you need 10 ingredients.

    This will allow for experimentation. If the core smithing for a iron sword is 2 pieces of iron ore, the player  can then experiment and substite silver for one of the iron ores- there should be a different outcome or unique (even humourously stupid- let the devs create that secret) result.

    But the core recipe calls for two ores- what ores you use and what comes out you wil need to find out. For instance You could use Gold and Tin, but the sword would Look uber- yet weak and breakable essentiually useless- though the combine suceeded.

    I like the idea of rare or precious metals/silks/clay/meats needing higher skill but those can be learned or quested.

     

    This will also cut back on the accidental inventory mini-game where you are staring at your inventory for 30min trying to figure out what you need to craft- also once you have the skill, this will allow crafting on the fly. Like in Amberfest? with the special Hot anvil? If you had the - one set- of 9 of the 10 ingredients needed for a sword, then when you get the piece you can forge it in the special place- sucessfully with no fail.

    Crafting on the fly will allow you to gather only one piece of the needed ingredients and then maybe make a sword or hammer or dagger in the dungeon to give to a group member to improve their gear or test (ha ha).

     

    So like, you need:

    2 ore,

    tempering agent(something in a bottle not drinkable but dropped),

    fire holder (coal/wood),

    fire source (dry ice {???}/ fire elemental core/ Caster spell (?!?!?!- burst of flame!),

    smithing hammer (which you probably have on your person; a necessary use of  inventory slot) ,

    Water

    Easily rememberable, and  allows for experimentation, so long as you have two ores, any ores, it will work, likewise with tempering agent, even water. Dry ice burns, that is why I mentioned it. Water from the ocean creates something basic, water from a fountain in halfling land? creates another aspect.

     

    I was even thinking of adding a kind of textile (to polish) where a consumable spider silk would cause a different sheen (make it appear invisible to monsters? or faciton sensitive beings that dont allow drawn weapons, but wherein is danger so you NEED ot have your weapon ready) . Or leaf to polish creating a different sheen minor effect. (alkaline in leaf rubbed on balde causes minor infection/festering allowing better poison damage if rogue poisoned blade)

    So I am adventuring and I get silver and copper ore, I loot a spider venom sac, I find mesquite wood, there is a goblin fire burning in the area I am in (currently cleared), I have a flask of water on me, and I picked up a dwarven handkerchief of wooing sometime back while in dwarf city or given to me form a dwarf group member who was upset at a failed romance attempt.

    I say to myself, hmm, I have learned how to use silver recently- my skill is that high, I already know copper, and I have learned dagger and sword model skills ( but I have NOT learned Hammer). I step up to the goblin fire and get ready to smith- experiment with the items I have.

    Because I know dagger and sword I can choose one or the other , and on combine, I create a Shiny (from handkerchief polish) sharp (from mesquite wood) rapier (thin and weak from ore combo) of piercing (skill check- from goblin fire) quickness (high damage/delay ratio from spider sac)

    Shiny sharp rapier of piercing quickness- which I cant use because my piercing skill is not high enough but I can give it to the rogue to see if she likes it. The weapon being quick she may be able to aply more poison to it more often and to more damage. I mean, its worth a shot, right?