Forums » The Dwarves

Caster Focus Dwarves?

    • 26 posts
    December 16, 2016 9:13 PM PST

    I nnoticed the last stream that the Enchanter class was a Dwarf. At first I thought it was strange, but the look of the dwarf and seeing the character model with a staff and robe actually looked amazing. The "blue" frost dwarf suprisingly looks beautiful as a caster. It is a nice break from the traditional strong and drunken money hungry dwarf.

    What do you guys think? Do you like the idea of the dwarf race being more magical then the traditional high fantasy dwarf? This is speculation, I have no idea if the dwarves are indeed more magic based.

    • 4416 posts
    December 19, 2016 6:43 AM PST

    A few thoughts:

    Kilsin said that race/class restrictions have not been finalized so we don't know for sure that Dwarf Enchanters will be playable at launch. That's just kinda what he arbitrarily chose to play in the stream because he's a dev and he can so why not. I, too, was a little surprised and confused by it at first. I also agree that the robes didn't look half bad on the dwarf, but given that Pantheon is pretty clearly a high fantasy game and tends to lean more toward the traiditional side, I would be a bit surprised if Enchanter was a playable class for dwarves at launch.

    Now with that said, if you look in the lore for the dwarves, it says, "the Dwarves seek not an empire, but to increase their mastery in smithing, the arcane as well as battle." Assuming they don't drift far from the original lore between now and launch, it seems to suggest that arcane classes aren't out of the question for dwarves. I have seen arcane dwarves done pretty well in other games. And I can conceive of a Dwarf Summoner or maybe a Wizard in Terminus. Especially with a focus on ice spells.

    I think I have a slight preference for non-arcane dwarves cause I'm a high fantasy snob like that. But only slight. I don't think it's that much of a stretch so I'd be open to it - it's not a deal breaker.

     

    X

    • 79 posts
    December 19, 2016 2:23 PM PST

    I enojoyed playing a Runemaster in DAOC - finally had a shot to give those cranky elves a shot of their own medicine. :)  

    That being said I'm with Bazgrim that I'd have a preference for non-arcane magic which more than likely stems from the D&D version of Dwarves.  In other aspects Dwarves always seem to be very connected with community, family, monarchy and creators which to me leans more towards non-arcane magic.

    • 1880 posts
    December 25, 2016 8:04 PM PST

    Dwyvyrn said:

    I enojoyed playing a Runemaster in DAOC - finally had a shot to give those cranky elves a shot of their own medicine. :)  

    That being said I'm with Bazgrim that I'd have a preference for non-arcane magic which more than likely stems from the D&D version of Dwarves.  In other aspects Dwarves always seem to be very connected with community, family, monarchy and creators which to me leans more towards non-arcane magic.

    Of all the races, I can connect to Dwarves the most, as described above.

    In other games, Gnomes create all sorts of devices to replicate magical effects. Maybe in Pantheon, Dwarves could fill that role.

     

    • 4416 posts
    January 1, 2017 4:02 AM PST

    Dwyvyrn said:

    I enojoyed playing a Runemaster in DAOC - finally had a shot to give those cranky elves a shot of their own medicine. :)  

    That being said I'm with Bazgrim that I'd have a preference for non-arcane magic which more than likely stems from the D&D version of Dwarves.  In other aspects Dwarves always seem to be very connected with community, family, monarchy and creators which to me leans more towards non-arcane magic.

    Runemaster is an interesting idea. I think it makes quite a bit of sense for dwarves to have some sort of affinity with ancient magical runes. Consider that dwarves in Pantheon are both the oldest races in the world and were in fact created from ice and stone. I like that and I can imagine the dwarves discovering a unique type of arcane knowledge deep within the mountain. Therefore, their rune-based magic should be an inherent racial trait that all dwarves can use regardless of their class. Effects created by these runes would mostly be limited to "icy" or "earthy" stuff like roots, HP buffs, cold buffs/debuffs, ice attacks, etc. I'll think more about specific mechanics, but suffice to say it should be quite different from just using mana to cast a spell. I maintain that dwarves probably should not have access to traditional caster classes. What do you think?

    • 1179 posts
    January 1, 2017 11:04 AM PST

    I'd also prefer to keep it 'traditional' and have them stuck with warrior/crusader/cleric/rogue, but I'm okay with casters being open to them.  I feel like every race is going to have it's own twist or spin, and I think we're going to end up having dwarf wizards and enchanters, at least.  I also think maybe bard should be open to every race.  There is music in every culture.

    • 8 posts
    January 11, 2017 10:25 AM PST

    I'd prefer an even more traditional approach to dwarf lore that focuses on original dwarven traits such as magic and craftsmanship - not war.

    I think it was D&D that messed up dwarf lore to begin with and then GW made them little more than drunken body-building yobs.

    Consider the fact that the most famous wizard ever was named after a dwarven mage, and that name was Gandalf.

    • 79 posts
    January 11, 2017 3:34 PM PST

    Skrofler said:

    I'd prefer an even more traditional approach to dwarf lore that focuses on original dwarven traits such as magic and craftsmanship - not war.

    I think it was D&D that messed up dwarf lore to begin with and then GW made them little more than drunken body-building yobs.

    Consider the fact that the most famous wizard ever was named after a dwarven mage, and that name was Gandalf.

    Traditional Dwarf Lore would be Norse where they are described as Master Smiths, Craftsman and more like Bards/Skalds as opposed to magic creatures.  D&D was "referenced" from Tolkien who made the dwarves also about war.  Below is the Dwarf as described in norse mythology.

    "The dwarfs ( dvergar ), as already seen, played some part in myth and a greater one in story, but there is little to suggest that they were venerated. They are remembered chiefly as craftsmen ; they brewed the mead of poetry (see Ch. II, God of Poetry), and were renowned as forgers of costly treasures."

    ... "Dwarfs were repositories of wisdom"

    ... "Dwarfs were also remembered as masters of runes and magic songs"

    ... "Mixingthe blood with honey, the dwarfs brewed such a mead, that everyone who drinks it becomes a poet or man of learning."

    ... "Poetry is the drink or water of dwarfs."

    ... and Strong/Enduring "They made sea and lakes of his blood, earth of his flesh and the sky of his skull, placing a dwarf under each of the four corners, as if to hold it up."

    In norse mythos Dwarves were also said to carry the characteristic we see of trolls in the Tolkein books:

     "Living as they do, dwarfs cannot face the sun."

    As far as Gandalf's name goes...

    "Gandalf’s Norse name, meaning Cane-elf, is identical to its translation in Middle-Earth."

    For the image of Dwarves we have in RPG's they all originate from Tolkien as the Norse mythos has some very odd descriptions that don't all meet up with our current expectations of dwarves.  Like the origin story being Maggots formed on Yimir's body.  I'm glad to see Visionary Realms taking a stylish new perspective while still maintaining some of the Core characteristics of how we have come to see and expect Modern Fantasy Dwarves.

     


    This post was edited by Dwyvyrn at January 11, 2017 3:36 PM PST