Forums » Pantheon Classes

Epic Gear Quests

    • 172 posts
    August 23, 2016 9:46 AM PDT

    Before i begin.. overall i think these quests should be able to be completed by all, but should be difficult enough to where not every player is even going to want to begin the quest.  Meaning casuals and elitist etc. alike can both obtain the gear however it may take one longer than the other... and that being said, these quests should be LONG and im talking like LOTR books read over three times long. depening on how fast you read.. i digress

     

    All too often now in modern MMOs i find myself obtaining "EPIC LOOTS"... which in this context the word would mean "particularly impressive or remarkable."  but i never really feel remarkable.. i dont feel impressive... Sure, I may look badass but do i really feel badass? standing next to the guy in the same suit of armor as me?

     

    Sure there was a great feeling of downing a raid boss that took you however long to kill.  Then there was of course some of the best gear in the game available for you; felt great to be able to be rewarded for something my guild and i accomplished and i could show for it.  But all of that aside there was something still missing...

    In my vision of the MMO EPIC there, was nothing particularly impressive or remarkable that I did, we rammed our heads into a mobs mechanics until we figured out the best tactic to kill it(or in recent expansions not naming any names but *COUGH* WOW *COUGH* just get the guide off some guilds website from the expansion beta; all the tactics are already available) which left me with a lacking sense of accomplishment....

    Now im not saying killing hard raid bosses or completeing raids was not an achievement, it certainly is and always will  be.  But to call something truly EPIC i would like to see this game carry along the same lines as EQ did for class EPIC weapons.  Now i never acquired my epic weapon in EQ but from everything ive read about the epic quests, it was something to shake a stick at so to say.  This wasnt a quest that said "Hey.. go here talk to this guy kill this guy and come back to me; sending you on to next quest holder."  No.. These quests were vaugue, they left you wondering, they required you to traverse the entire world.  Go to dangerous places to aquire things that were not going to be gotten alone.  You actually had to ask for help and be social and there was no shame in that.  When you saw a player with their class EPIC it was a "WOW moment" he/she went through a real hardship to gain that weapon whether or not it was the best for them in the game and you KNEW IT.  

     

    I believe any epic gear quest should actually be something that not everyone is going to actively seek out.  Something thats going to make me traverse the WORLD of terminus.  Go to places im not welcome, Talk to people(NPCs) that do not like me and i have had to win their favor.  All along the way never knowing how long, what turn or puzzle is coming next always thinking "what did i get myself into?".  What i am really getting at here is i want a real sense of gratification when i am given something called "EPIC".  I want that word to actually mean and show something "particularly impressive or remarkable." Something i can walk by with and someone tell me congratulations on your epic because they know its something everyone isnt going to get because its going to take players and the help of other players that are particularly impressive or remarkable.  

     

    What are your thoughts on EPIC gear quests? Do you find modern MMOs "EPIC" drops to be truly remarkable? impressive? how much gratification are you getting out of the gear youre receiving?

     


    This post was edited by Aayden at August 23, 2016 9:53 AM PDT
    • 156 posts
    August 23, 2016 5:58 PM PDT

    I love quests - the more the better, even if they don't give significant xp or loot rewards. Lore or RP quests are wonderful!

    I also love epic/legendary type quests, especially for gear (class gear?). I would want them to be truly epic though and take many hours, if not days of chained events/quests to complete. Completing a quest is a reward unto itself, so to get a great loot item at the end also means that the quests need to be far harder that all others across the game. Make sure the term 'epic' really equates to its true meaning. 

    • 172 posts
    August 23, 2016 6:36 PM PDT
    I definitely agree with you umbra! I really hope they add these types of quests and really capture the meaning of the word epic like you said. I want to feel a sense of pride every time I log in with my epic weapon I know I put hours and hours and days into completing the quest for and gathering the materials and solving the puzzles and traveling the world
    • 510 posts
    August 24, 2016 6:31 AM PDT

    I am really hoping that there is no - and never will be - Best In Slot gear.

    • 33 posts
    August 24, 2016 8:34 AM PDT

    I particularly enjoyed my Templar Epic. It took me all over place and required alot of effort. It was an amazing feeling when I finally got that. The clicky was spectacular but not a requirement for templars to have to rez. I cannot wait for epic gear quests in Pantheon. 

    • 172 posts
    August 24, 2016 8:43 AM PDT

    Aayden said:

     When you saw a player with their class EPIC it was a "WOW moment" he/she went through a real hardship to gain that weapon whether or not it was the best for them in the game and you KNEW IT.  

      

     

    @nephreiti i never really intended to call it "best in slot" i think thats a modern term that needs to die.  So in other words i do agree with you, but the point im trying to convey is that if they are going to call a piece of equipment EPIC, it better hold true to the word.


    This post was edited by Aayden at August 24, 2016 8:45 AM PDT
    • 172 posts
    August 24, 2016 8:47 AM PDT

    What i really dont want is them to throw color schemed gear scores at us that dont mean a damn thing and the only reason my gear is called EPIC is because its name is colored red or purple etc and its because its high level gear.  An EPIC piece should be significant and like the word in context states "particularly impressive or remarkable."  And the task you had to accomplish to gain that piece of equipment should mirror the words meaning all the same.


    This post was edited by Aayden at August 24, 2016 8:48 AM PDT
    • 172 posts
    August 24, 2016 8:50 AM PDT

    Dunkmeister said:

    I particularly enjoyed my Templar Epic. It took me all over place and required alot of effort. It was an amazing feeling when I finally got that. The clicky was spectacular but not a requirement for templars to have to rez. I cannot wait for epic gear quests in Pantheon. 

     

    The EQ1 cleric EPIC? that allowed a full combat rez? i got like halfway through mine, i remember camping for that underwater goblin kings for HOOOURS and i still never even killed him

    • 33 posts
    August 24, 2016 8:56 AM PDT

    Aayden said:

    Dunkmeister said:

    I particularly enjoyed my Templar Epic. It took me all over place and required alot of effort. It was an amazing feeling when I finally got that. The clicky was spectacular but not a requirement for templars to have to rez. I cannot wait for epic gear quests in Pantheon. 

     

    The EQ1 cleric EPIC? that allowed a full combat rez? i got like halfway through mine, i remember camping for that underwater goblin kings for HOOOURS and i still never even killed him

     

    Yeah, EQ1. Took me forever too. 

    • 510 posts
    August 25, 2016 12:36 AM PDT

    I know I got my epic.  I know it because I pulled a LOT of favors to get a lot of folks I know to help me.  One of them was a friend who was a rogue.  In return for his help I promised to help him get HIS epic no matter how long it took us.  And then we got his in about 4 hours......

     

    START to FINISH in 4 hours  :\


    This post was edited by Nephretiti at August 25, 2016 12:36 AM PDT
    • 205 posts
    August 30, 2016 5:40 PM PDT
    I know when I got my Water Sprinkler of Nem Ankh.... I was on top of the world. I got this when there were no guides out on it yet. I made some coin helping others with advice on it. I believe there is nothing more exhilarating than a TRULY epic quest for an epic reward.
    • 173 posts
    August 31, 2016 9:09 AM PDT

    I have to agree with Aayden.  An epic quest should be, well..epic.  Travel the globe, do a bunch of stuff for a bunch of people.  Do things that are more involved than "normal" quests.  To the point some may even decide not to do it at all.  

    The reward should as well be OMG CHECK THAT OUT loot.  One of the things that EQ did that I really liked was make your epic relavent long-term.  The only toon I ever got all the way to my 2.0 was my mage.  Though at this point I only log on when I'm feeling nostalgic, my 2.0 is still relavent to this day and I still am proud to wear the title Primal Elementalist.  Only down side to it really is in today's game you can molo the whole thing as I'm told.

    It would be great if the quest was done is such a way that years down the road it was still a challange.  Either way, I look foreward to trotting the globe and figuring all kinds of stuff out for all kinds of people for a peice that will demand attention.

    • 86 posts
    September 1, 2016 1:25 PM PDT

    I think epic quests should span a characters entire life with step unlocking at different levels. And to encourage players to progress through this quest as they level instead of just waiting till max level and doing it all at once, it should be more difficult to do lower level steps once you have outleveled them by a certain amount.

    Example

    Lets say the quest starts at level 10. You are a Monk. The level 10 quest gives you a list of things you need to do.

    1. Kill a certain bandit chief.
    2. Collect a rare piece of fur from wolves.
    3. Get a special oil from a merchant that will only give it to you once you do them some favors.
    4. ....
    5. ....
    6. ....
    7. Take all items to the quest giver where you will be rewarded with a lvl 10 item.

    But lets say you skipped this and you are now level 50. This quest should somehow be more difficult to complete. This would encourage people to do these quests as they level in a group ... COMMUNITY!!!

    • 172 posts
    September 1, 2016 5:48 PM PDT
    While I agree with your take on the difficulty, I feel that having a greater level than what the quest provides and making it harder based on your level would require instancing. I agree it should be difficult but I don't think levels should limit. I think the quest should be long and difficult overall and should span many levels and require a group. However if you have out leveled a certain area then I don't think you should be punished or given a level curve based on that you maybe didn't find or start the quest at that given level it was meant for
    • 16 posts
    November 8, 2016 8:31 AM PST

    Nephretiti said:

    I am really hoping that there is no - and never will be - Best In Slot gear.

    +1 to this thread, and the above quote.  BIS gear makes games homogenous and very uninspiring.  Everyone that raids wears exactly the same gear - boring.

    Epic gear should be rare and hard-earned.  And there is something very exciting and satisfying about an ultra-challenging and ultra-long epic class quests resulting in an item (and possibly spell/ability?) that makes all work worthwhile.

    • 2886 posts
    November 8, 2016 11:44 AM PST

    This gets me so excited. There is nothing like being in your starting city as a new player and seeing another player walking around in gear that just looks way better than everyone else. Your mind goes wild trying to imagine all the places they've seen and the crazy fights that person must have gone through to get that gear. It instantly inspires you to play basically nonstop until you too can turn heads just by having a piece of truly epic gear equipped. That feeling of inspiration and instant dedication is the best feeling I can have in a game.

    • 172 posts
    November 13, 2016 12:25 AM PST

    Fatty said:

    Nephretiti said:

    I am really hoping that there is no - and never will be - Best In Slot gear.

    And there is something very exciting and satisfying about an ultra-challenging and ultra-long epic class quests resulting in an item (and possibly spell/ability?) that makes all work worthwhile.

     

    Absolutely, i think that the gratification from receiving a great piece or "epic" piece of gear is really missing in the modern MMOs.  This also goes back to a previous comment, these types of items should span the whole life cycle of the toon to get.. something like this may be required to be called "best in slot" on technicality.. but i dont think it should be the only option for you to have as far as being considered a "top tier raider" or what have you.  Other items may be just as viable or of slightly equal value only minus what makes that "epic" item..well..epic..

    • 172 posts
    November 13, 2016 12:27 AM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    This gets me so excited. There is nothing like being in your starting city as a new player and seeing another player walking around in gear that just looks way better than everyone else. Your mind goes wild trying to imagine all the places they've seen and the crazy fights that person must have gone through to get that gear. It instantly inspires you to play basically nonstop until you too can turn heads just by having a piece of truly epic gear equipped. That feeling of inspiration and instant dedication is the best feeling I can have in a game.

     

    Seeing someone in high level gear is always inspiring! it definitely gives me a sense of motivation to go out and explore and hopefully stumble upon something great.  Especially in a game where things arent going to be pointed out to you!

    • 37 posts
    November 14, 2016 7:14 PM PST

    Lost of good stuff in here to respond too but ill try and stay on topic. First i dont agree on a epic quest having the ability to evolve throught the game play. That would just be meh. Most epic weapons quests or gear has a shelf life. Cutural gear in EQ for example was something everyone could craft if they took the time and it was widley used for long periods of time before it was upgraded via named drops or raid loot. 

    Now Epic quests in general i agree should be something time consuming. If you put the time in and farm fight aquire all of the stuff on your check list it should be abtainable with a small group of people not a raid sized mob. Some of the best epics ( using EQ an the example) it was not so much the weapon or item but the focus you got with it that made it worth the time. Clerics being one of the best examples with the clicky rez in combat. I am not saying at some point it wont be upgraded but imo ballance it out so the epic weapon/gear whatever means something over time and is not just rotting in your bank.

     

     

    • 9 posts
    December 2, 2016 4:48 PM PST

    Umbra said:

    I love quests - the more the better, even if they don't give significant xp or loot rewards. Lore or RP quests are wonderful!

    I also love epic/legendary type quests, especially for gear (class gear?). I would want them to be truly epic though and take many hours, if not days of chained events/quests to complete. Completing a quest is a reward unto itself, so to get a great loot item at the end also means that the quests need to be far harder that all others across the game. Make sure the term 'epic' really equates to its true meaning. 

    Yes Umbra yes, class gear, i picture say dreadlord.. fighting a rough undead mob decent rank named like so.. no cake walk for sure 1 item then another type of named mob decent rank for another.. working his or hers* way to full set of class specific gear and then with alil craftin augmenting it to higher quality. Then maybe at end.. a final quest for weapon to unlock more stats / power specific to the Class making it a worth while trek and accomplishment. Yes i have whole scene in my head  for sk / dreadlord.. <-- partial to them but can see Paladins already  cleric shaman.. ya would be amazing touch i think. sorry /ramblin off**

    • 172 posts
    December 3, 2016 1:39 AM PST

    killafornia said:

    Umbra said:

    I love quests - the more the better, even if they don't give significant xp or loot rewards. Lore or RP quests are wonderful!

    I also love epic/legendary type quests, especially for gear (class gear?). I would want them to be truly epic though and take many hours, if not days of chained events/quests to complete. Completing a quest is a reward unto itself, so to get a great loot item at the end also means that the quests need to be far harder that all others across the game. Make sure the term 'epic' really equates to its true meaning. 

    Yes Umbra yes, class gear, i picture say dreadlord.. fighting a rough undead mob decent rank named like so.. no cake walk for sure 1 item then another type of named mob decent rank for another.. working his or hers* way to full set of class specific gear and then with alil craftin augmenting it to higher quality. Then maybe at end.. a final quest for weapon to unlock more stats / power specific to the Class making it a worth while trek and accomplishment. Yes i have whole scene in my head  for sk / dreadlord.. <-- partial to them but can see Paladins already  cleric shaman.. ya would be amazing touch i think. sorry /ramblin off**

     

    I like the idea of even potentially having an entire class gear set, but something thats also going to take a very.. very long time to achieve.. and if you happen to achieve the entire set it would be something that not everyone is going to be able to complete and it should be recognizable that youve achieved something of this magnitude.  I think if in the way of an entire set it would also have to have a long shelf life for that class and almost never be out equipped by any other item in the game.. However achieving this whole set would be great, but the amount of time to get it all in my honest opinion should be an incredibly daunting or intimidating taskt o even begin.. something so big that most wouldnt even want to take the task upon themselves to begin or complete.. Back to my original post, these rewards for "epic" gear from either quests or mob drops should be particularly impressive or remarkable and the accomplishments you have to achieve are equally remarkable.

    • 15 posts
    December 4, 2016 11:37 AM PST

    Definitely find it intriguing to think of the possibility of an epic gear set or piece of armor to accompany an epic weapon. These absolutely need to be accomplished with months upon months of playtime or very hard difficulty. I liked the EQ1 mix where most epics required running to random places, finding obscure ground spawns or wandering mobs, having to spawn or trigger something or waiting on an event/time of day, etc. It truly dragged it out more and added adventure by having to travel all over. One thing I would hope to see is that raid content be included as a requirement to completing any epic items, anything less and heaps of people will have them. 

    Lastly, some classes will undoubtedly be more popular than others, but there absolutely needs to more of an equal footing on the length of time and difficulty it takes to get an epic here. EQ1 had some serious disparity in the time and difficulty of epics for different classes and while I expect differences, some could be completed in a few days versus others took months. Looking forward to what they cook up for epics though! 


    This post was edited by Speaknoevil at December 4, 2016 5:07 PM PST
    • 2886 posts
    December 4, 2016 2:42 PM PST

    While I am glad that VR is prioritizing a high grind/high reward style of gameplay, I think there should be a limit to it. I'm afraid that in order to warrant such an extreme grind, the reward is going to be have to been extremely powerful in order to make it feel like it is a worthwhile endeavor. It would essentially have to be best-in-slot and stay as such for a long time. I'm pretty certain that is something VR wants to avoid. If new content comes out with an item that is either more powerful or equally powerful but can be acquired with less effort, those that put in all that time are probably going to feel that it was wasted. And it seems like the only alternative would be to make the items clearly OP. And while the reward may be proportional to the amount of effort invested, it would throw off the balance for releasing future content. And you don't want the top 0.1% of the playerbase to have that much control over how the game is designed. It seems like an epic idea at first, but I don't think it would actually be a good thing in the long run. I am glad there will be epic weapons, but I think it is possible to take epics TOO far. And full sets of epic gear would probably be taking it too far.

    • 172 posts
    December 4, 2016 7:54 PM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    While I am glad that VR is prioritizing a high grind/high reward style of gameplay, I think there should be a limit to it. I'm afraid that in order to warrant such an extreme grind, the reward is going to be have to been extremely powerful in order to make it feel like it is a worthwhile endeavor. It would essentially have to be best-in-slot and stay as such for a long time. I'm pretty certain that is something VR wants to avoid. If new content comes out with an item that is either more powerful or equally powerful but can be acquired with less effort, those that put in all that time are probably going to feel that it was wasted. And it seems like the only alternative would be to make the items clearly OP. And while the reward may be proportional to the amount of effort invested, it would throw off the balance for releasing future content. And you don't want the top 0.1% of the playerbase to have that much control over how the game is designed. It seems like an epic idea at first, but I don't think it would actually be a good thing in the long run. I am glad there will be epic weapons, but I think it is possible to take epics TOO far. And full sets of epic gear would probably be taking it too far.

    Everyone always uses the term 'best in slot' .. a term I truly hate.. because to me it implies that unless you have that BIS item them you'll never have the best gear to compete at the top tiers for raids or pvp etc.  and I highly disagree, in regards to getting an item like this that has a quest that's going to take you a long time to complete it should be considered best in slot but with that term I don't think it should apply to only one item.  

    With a epic quest like this there should also be the equivalent from a raid boss or master crafted item that you could call all three 'best in slot'.  you have more opportunities to then have top tier class gear whether or not you took the time to quest, craft or raid for it.  

    Now when I say equivalent I don't mean exact same stat, or the exact same active proc (clicky) for the item.  but something that would allow you to stay competitive in top tier raids and reflect the effort placed into getting that item. so this allows the people that aren't going to take on a daunting quest the opportunity to still be considered a top tier geared player.  but as far as best in slot i don't think that should be the end all be all to having the "best" gear for you class


    This post was edited by Aayden at December 4, 2016 8:40 PM PST
    • 1860 posts
    December 6, 2016 12:32 PM PST

     Before I give my opinion on Epic Quest Items it seems like there is a bit of disconnect in some of the above posts and some clarification might be helpul?:

    Note that "Epic Quest Weapons" (as far as using EQ as the standard) have nothing to do with items that are considered to be epic quality raid drops.  The amount of time 1 person has to invest in killing a new/difficult raid boss for the first time and getting its "epic" drop loot (wiping a bunch of times before you successfully succeed and then killing it a bunch of times before you are rewarded a specific drop) should, and did, pale in comparison to the time invested in the more difficult class epic weapons in EQ. 

    As far as terminology for discussion we should be careful about what we refer to as Epic items.  Calling any kind of standard raid loot, even if it is the "BiS" from the hardest raid mob in the game, an Epic item might lead to confusion when discussing actual "epic quest items".  Maybe just refer to that as raid loot and leave the word epic out of it?

    Also note that even in EQ there was quite a large difference between some of the easier to attain classes epic quest weapons and the most difficult.  As far as this discussion goes I'm going to assume we are talking about the more difficult to attain epics.

    Ok, all that being said LOL. 

    I love Epic Quests.  I enjoy having long term goals that I can work on little by little.  

    I am usually one who enjoys raiding, working together as a team to accomplish a goal, but my favorite part of doing the epic quests in EQ was not the raids...though killing those raid targets was still fun (I had already killed most of those raid mobs prior to the original Epic Quests being released).  My favorite part of the epic quests was gathering a ton of little items either solo or in a single group. 

    It forced me to go revisit zones that I wouldn't otherwise have gone back to.  It made me travel the world and talk to npcs I wouldn't have ever talked to. It made me make lists of items and pour over the details because the quest was so involved.   It gave me something I could do when there was down time to still feel productive. The mage epic quest weapon was the quest that required the most effort/dedication/time, and gave me the most enjoyment, of any quest I have ever done in any game prior or since.

    There should be nothing equivalent because there should be nothing that is equivalent as far as effort required to attain (note that we always have to be refering to the current expansion).  There will always be future updates/expansions and power creep is unavoidable (though it can be slowed if implemented well).  It is inevitable that eventually, if the game continues to be updated,  the epic quest item will no longer be the best item available.  How should this be handled?

    Further epic versions that required the original epic became a thing.  That is one solution.  Giving the epic item a unique ability that will always be useful and is usable from inventory helps.  VR has said they won't have items whose stats increase as the player levels.  This is the one situation I would think that might be ok.  That could be handled in a few ways:

    Maybe after the maximun player level has increased a couple times the epic would be eligible for a stat upgrade of some kind ( every other expansion or so).  There could be more quests involved...or maybe it gained experience with use.  The player might end up having to make some tough decisions about what item to equip while they leveled up their epic.  By that point you might have attained an item that is better than your epic.  You would be required to equip the old epic item for it to gain experience.  Hopefully the stats would be adjusted in a way so that after a substantial amount of leveling your epic item would once again become the much better item over what was currently available.

    I'm long winded.  I'll stop there but, in short.  The epic item should be the best item attainable in my opinion (at the time it is released).  It should also be the most difficult to attain (by a lot).  What do you think about the- epic could be one of the only items that had a way to increase its stats idea? 

    Anyone have a better idea on how to deal with epics and power creep over the long term? 


    This post was edited by philo at December 6, 2016 4:39 PM PST