Forums » Crafting

Crafting Materials

    • 177 posts
    August 13, 2016 9:54 PM PDT

    Hi

    Just wondering if crafting materials have been decided to be node based or random drops?

    There are 2 types of crafting gathering I have played. The node based one where you are guaranteed of materials something. Like Wow, Vanguard, EQ 2, Rift etc. A mining node always gives materials, be it common or rare. Killing a beast will always give a skin when you skin it etc.

    The other is the EQ style, where it is totally random if you get a pelt or not. After 20 bears you might get 1 HQ bear pelt, 2 Medium, 4 Low and nothing much else. (I remember camping Rockhoppers for quite a while to get hides to make items). Also just because you killed a beast doesn't mean the pelt is in good shape to be useable. You might have sliced it to bits in your attempt to slay the beast.

    I don't mind either style. The EQ one is nice in it's own way, as the market isn't flooded with player made items. If it takes 5 pelts to make something then it is just 5 kills away, where the EQ style might take 20-30 kills for the mats required so as a concequence there is less items being made and sold as it takes longer to gather the materials.

    Makes player crafted items more valuable and rarer. As for the art of crafting I found Vanguard and EQ 2 out of the games I have played the most interesting and enjoyable style as you have to interact with the process.

     

    • 378 posts
    August 14, 2016 7:50 AM PDT

    Boulda said:

    *......... As for the art of crafting I found Vanguard and EQ 2 out of the games I have played the most interesting and enjoyable style as you have to interact with the process.

     

    I also found that IMO EQ2 has what is probably the best system of crafting items in any MMO , I liked it even better in the Beta (and maybe also at launch) as the crafters were more dependent on each other. I think it may have been changed as part of the tweaks done due to horrible lag issues at the launch of EQ2.

    • 875 posts
    August 20, 2016 7:32 AM PDT

    I would prefer 'the best idea' used.

    In this current instance, 'pure luck' in drop rates just comes down to a numbers game. Eg:

    Kill a 100 bears...    get (1) HQ Pelt, (9) MQ Pelts, (70) LQ Pelts and (20) Ruined Pelts.

    Is pure RNG. Kill 3 bears and you may get 3 x HQ.... or 3 x Ruined... or any combination in between.

    BUT:

    Let us consider 'Bears' as 'nodes' for Bear_Pelts.

    Let us consider 'skinning' as the gathering_skill

    Let us consider skinning_knife as the gathering_tool

    NOW what we have is:

    Bear_Quality_MAX x (Skinning_Skill_Bonus + Skinning_Tool_bonus) x Some_RNG_effect - Difficulty_Penalty = Overall_Pelt_Quality_index

    Bear_Quality_Max = some value to reflect how good a pelt can be. rat = low value, dragon = massive value

    Skinning_Skill_Bonus based on the skinning skill + stat mods etc

    Skinning_Tool_Bonus includes penalty for using 'my sword', bonus for 'quality tool'

    Difficulty_Penalty based on 'easy' = simple mammal hide .... 'very hard' = dragon scales etc

     

    Overall_Pelt_Quality_index

    -100 to 0     Ruined skin/pelt/scale

    0 - 100       LQ version

    101- 175    MQ version

    176 - 200   HQ version

    201+          Special

     

    This kind of system reflects:

    (i) skill improving chances for better materials.

    (ii) Tools matter a bit. And they have to be crafted (other than the crappy defaults ones from NPCs)

    (iii) better version of the creature will provide better possible results.

    Eg a 'skanky bear' will have a lower MAX value than 'well fed alpha bear'. You would much less chance (if indeed it was even possible) of getting an HQ skin from a skanky bear over the well-fed version.

    (iv) even Raid_Bosses could be skinned to provide ultra-rare mats....

    NB: while the MAX value would be very high, you would need a very proficiant skinner, with a decent tool, to make the absolute most of it. A a small ammount of luck too.

     

    This, though, is part of my push to get loot to be more 'mats' based than 'shiney phat lewts'. Even for uber-bosses.

    • 7 posts
    August 21, 2016 7:40 AM PDT

    All I ask in crafting (whatever the system) is let it mean something and not just another thing to do. In alot of games crafting is just a thing to do to pass time but if players are dependant on crafting to better their characters in some way big or small it gives meaning to the ability.

    • 508 posts
    August 21, 2016 8:55 AM PDT

    Apparently we are still a LONG way out for crafting.  That doesn't mean don't bother posting.  It just means don't be discouraged by a lack of response etc. regarding crafting.

    • 193 posts
    August 21, 2016 11:49 AM PDT

    I would love to see a really in depth foraging and crafting system where item parts have to be crafted before a final product is made.

    I would like to see getting raw materials as a skill line that effects the quality of the item that you are harvesting not a random thing automatically dropped from mobs (I really, really, really, hate farming to get a random specific drop).

    I would much prefer that you have to train in skinning to eventually be able to retrieve a HQ pelts. That skill being increased in step as your character progresses in the game. So once you are skilled enough, a HQ pelt wouldn't be a problem to retrieve, but you have earned the right to be able to create them. This could also be dependent on the type of creature, so basics of skinning would be similar for goats and sheep, but different for dire wolves and wyverns. There would be certain proficiency but then practice on the animal species would be required to get the best out of the creature.

    The HQ pelt could then be made into either more items (10 leather strips instead of say 3 from a LQ hide) or go to make equipment with better end stats.

    This could be applied to mining and tree felling, too. The better you get your skill, the higher quality of stone/gem/wood you would get. No huge random rolls to be worried about (I don't have a problem with failures or contamination from time to time, as long as the character can learn from failures too).

    Different animals, trees and mountains would produce different raw products.

    I do think that equipment should also play a part in the quality of the item being foraged, too. So you would need an exceptional sharp knife and the skill to get a HQ skin. You would need a sharp, forged tempered iron axe to get the best cut of wood. Maybe even to the point of enchanted foraging equipment to imbue extra skill or specials attributes to the item being harvested.

    These tools could all be player made and I do like the idea of being reliant on other trades to create a finished item. So to create an axe, you would need to get an axe blade from a blacksmith, a shaft from a carpenter and leather strappings from a leather worker. Obviously all of these need the raw materials first too.

    I would love to see a trade system where you can buy and sell raw products, product parts and finished items and include a contracting system so you can hire a player to make specific item for you (maybe even a bartering system where I ask for a Iron dagger blade to be made, entering the maximum I am willing to pay, then crafters could then bid to make that item for me). All this would slow the process of making equipment and so flooding the market would be harder to do.

    I'm open to whether players could have more than one trade skill but I don't think one character should be able to do all trade skills. Also only being able to be expert in one or two skills as a max.

    I quite like the idea of adding items to a base model to improve it too. So you could create a basic leather cap (for instance) then add cloth padding to it to reduce its fatigue rating and finally add steel banding or rivets to up its defence level (the type of metal/leather/cloth further modifying its overall stats).

    Balancing might prove hard, but if all mobs and players used such a system, then it should balance out.

    I know this would not be easy to implement, but I honestly feel that crafting in most games is an abysmal after thought.


    This post was edited by chenzeme at August 21, 2016 11:57 AM PDT
    • 508 posts
    August 22, 2016 5:46 PM PDT

    I don't think ANY crafting has been done yet.  We are still pretty early in the development of this title and I think we all have some high hopes.

    • 315 posts
    August 23, 2016 6:15 AM PDT

    Nazzik35 said:

    All I ask in crafting (whatever the system) is let it mean something and not just another thing to do. In alot of games crafting is just a thing to do to pass time but if players are dependant on crafting to better their characters in some way big or small it gives meaning to the ability.

     

    +1

    I posted in another thread about my preffered approaches to the crafting system in general, but above all else, have it actually be worth something to the rest of the world.

    • 106 posts
    August 23, 2016 10:31 PM PDT

    Just wanted to weigh in here a little bit. Please be gentle, it's still very early to talk too in-depth about crafting :)  

    To the OP's question: expect both nodes and drops. Nodes aren't likely to be as readily available though as you might be used to in more recent MMO releases.

    Example: Mined materials will likely only exist in veins within caves, quarries, mountain passes, etc. There's likely to be NPC's in many of these areas that mine, devour, or prize the items that come from those sources, so expect that you'll sometimes find similar materials from the NPC's where it makes sense.

    Regardless of the method in which you acquire your crafting materials, we'd like to take an approach that they aren't spread out through the world within rigid level ranges. We want to avoid a world where Copper is gained in level 1-10 zones, and only used in level 1-10 recipes, as an example. Ideally you'll still need items that come from starter zones for your recipes at end game, in increasing quantities as recipe difficulty and rewards increase. You might find coal and copper more readily in the early zones, but you may still need both to make alloys for endgame weapons and armor.

    There's a lot more discussion to be had in the near-ish future about crafting (and I look forward to chatting more about it -- crafting is very near and dear to my own heart). Stay tuned :)


    This post was edited by Ceythos at August 23, 2016 10:32 PM PDT
    • 315 posts
    August 25, 2016 4:15 AM PDT

    Ceythos said:

    Just wanted to weigh in here a little bit. Please be gentle, it's still very early to talk too in-depth about crafting :)  

    To the OP's question: expect both nodes and drops. Nodes aren't likely to be as readily available though as you might be used to in more recent MMO releases.

    Example: Mined materials will likely only exist in veins within caves, quarries, mountain passes, etc. There's likely to be NPC's in many of these areas that mine, devour, or prize the items that come from those sources, so expect that you'll sometimes find similar materials from the NPC's where it makes sense.

    Regardless of the method in which you acquire your crafting materials, we'd like to take an approach that they aren't spread out through the world within rigid level ranges. We want to avoid a world where Copper is gained in level 1-10 zones, and only used in level 1-10 recipes, as an example. Ideally you'll still need items that come from starter zones for your recipes at end game, in increasing quantities as recipe difficulty and rewards increase. You might find coal and copper more readily in the early zones, but you may still need both to make alloys for endgame weapons and armor.

    There's a lot more discussion to be had in the near-ish future about crafting (and I look forward to chatting more about it -- crafting is very near and dear to my own heart). Stay tuned :)

    Now you just wetted my appetite.  Thanks for the info :)

    It's great that VR seems to be taking crafting seriously.  A lot of games these days crafting seems to be either an afterthought or just not done all that well.


    This post was edited by Aarpoch at August 25, 2016 4:17 AM PDT
    • 217 posts
    August 25, 2016 11:20 AM PDT

    Ceythos said:

    Just wanted to weigh in here a little bit. Please be gentle, it's still very early to talk too in-depth about crafting :)  

    To the OP's question: expect both nodes and drops. Nodes aren't likely to be as readily available though as you might be used to in more recent MMO releases.

    Example: Mined materials will likely only exist in veins within caves, quarries, mountain passes, etc. There's likely to be NPC's in many of these areas that mine, devour, or prize the items that come from those sources, so expect that you'll sometimes find similar materials from the NPC's where it makes sense.

    Regardless of the method in which you acquire your crafting materials, we'd like to take an approach that they aren't spread out through the world within rigid level ranges. We want to avoid a world where Copper is gained in level 1-10 zones, and only used in level 1-10 recipes, as an example. Ideally you'll still need items that come from starter zones for your recipes at end game, in increasing quantities as recipe difficulty and rewards increase. You might find coal and copper more readily in the early zones, but you may still need both to make alloys for endgame weapons and armor.

    There's a lot more discussion to be had in the near-ish future about crafting (and I look forward to chatting more about it -- crafting is very near and dear to my own heart). Stay tuned :)

    Good info, thanks Ceythos.....

    • 1212 posts
    August 25, 2016 11:41 AM PDT

    Skycaster said:

    Boulda said:

    *......... As for the art of crafting I found Vanguard and EQ 2 out of the games I have played the most interesting and enjoyable style as you have to interact with the process.

     

    I also found that IMO EQ2 has what is probably the best system of crafting items in any MMO , I liked it even better in the Beta (and maybe also at launch) as the crafters were more dependent on each other. I think it may have been changed as part of the tweaks done due to horrible lag issues at the launch of EQ2.

    Agreed. I really liked the EQ2 system. In beta and at release it was pretty time-consuming and took a ton of resources, but that was fine with me. It was also highly interdependent between disciplines, so you would need to have a smith to assist with components for outfitting, for example. That's much less true now. 

    I thought the lag mostly revolved around the fact that there were mutliple teirs of quality possible on any given combine. And then the quality of subcomponents impacted the possible tiers of quality for final items. So for any given recipe you could have a dozen or more possible component outcomes, and the database just ballooned to an unmanagable size from the quantity of goods being tracked. 

    • 92 posts
    August 25, 2016 12:08 PM PDT

    I am glad to hear that it will be a mixture of both nodes and drops with there being much fewer nodes available. With less nodes around, the layers that are more dedicated to crafting will make more of an effort to get the materials. When nodes are everywhere, materials are in abundance and crafting can become trivialized. 

    • 34 posts
    August 30, 2016 3:59 PM PDT

    I would love a combination of EQ1 and SWG. 

    I like the way pelts, bonechips, etc. etc. were done in EQ1. 

    But for 'raw' materials (metals?), if they will implement them, I really enjoyed the way resources/materials were done in Star Wars Galaxies.

    In SWG a resource would spawn in a certain area for a certain amount of time (days if I remember correct). Each resource had one or more stats like (CR) Cold Resistance, (CD) Conductivity, (DR) Decay Resistance, (ER) Entangle Resistance, (FL) Flavor, etc. etc.

    After a certain amount of time the spawn areas would change and so would the stats. 

    Higher quality resources created higher quality crafting goods. 

    It made the looking for resources so much more fun. Checking out all kind of remote areas for rare suberb quality materials. 

     

     

     


    This post was edited by DazL at August 30, 2016 5:41 PM PDT
    • 92 posts
    September 1, 2016 10:19 AM PDT

    I too like how some materials in EQ1 as well as most other games came from mob drops. Skins, Teeth, Silks, Venom, etc.

    • 177 posts
    September 3, 2016 4:32 AM PDT

    Ceythos said:

    Just wanted to weigh in here a little bit. Please be gentle, it's still very early to talk too in-depth about crafting :)  

    To the OP's question: expect both nodes and drops. Nodes aren't likely to be as readily available though as you might be used to in more recent MMO releases.

    Thanks for the info. I was just curious as to which way you were thinking of going.