Forums » Crafting

A crafting tale...

    • 508 posts
    August 8, 2016 7:56 AM PDT

    Just a little something that describes what I would like to see....

     

    Jorsath decieds he wants a new set of REALLY nice plate armor for his next trip into a dungeon.  He looks about in several cities and finally finds a master smith to create the armor.  It is everything he wants in a set of armor!  Fits great (add agi), looks nice (add char), and can really take a beating (add a lot of defense).  Now he just needs to get it blessed or imbued or Psyched out.  Since he knows the next big dungeon coming up is full of undead - he thinks BLESSED is the way to go on this particular set of armor.  He toddles off to the local temple and searches for a great cleric to BLESS his armor.  He finds another great Cleric armor smith who is willing to bless the armor but then stops and tells him "I can bless this for ya right now and you would have a nice piece of armor to battle the undead in.  But what would REALLY make this pop is to have it inscribed first.  This will allow a more potent blessing and provide you with more protection - not te mention making it a bit more purtty".  Jorsath thinks this over and decieds the cleric is right.  He finds a top-notch inscriber who takes the job and inscribes a number of points on the armor.  He does amazing work and Jorsath runs back to the Cleric who quickly inbues the entire set of armor.  It is an amazing piece of work.  As Jorsath turns to go the Cleric asks him "where ya headed to with that armor anyways"?  Jorsath tells him and the Cleric pauses a moment to think and then tells him "Ya know - there are som non-undead in there too.  I know there are a few elemental types in there.  You might want to get some arcane gemstones added to the armor and weapons just in case".  Jorsath thinks a moment and decides in for a penny, in for a pund and gets a gemcrafter to add a few gem slots with gems.  Then he runs off to find a wizard to imbue the gemstones....

     

    What does this mean?

      Blacksmith - creates the armor

      Cleric - Blesses the item (Basically adds defensive or offensive abilities basedon HOLY abilities)

      Wizard - Imbues the item (Basically adds defensive or offensive abilities based on ARCANE abilites)

      Enchanter - Psychs an item out (basically adds defensive or offensive buffs to an item that is based on the Psychic abilities of Enchanters)

      (There obviously needs to be some Druid imbibing as well but I dont know what to call it.  But imagine having a pair of gauntlets that lets you have tracking once a day, or a belt that will summon food once  day, etc.)

     Inscribing - normally meant for the creation of spells etc, an inscriber can also inscribe archaic test and symbols on items which will increase whatever magical abilities it is imbued with

     Jewel crafting - crafts slots and gemstones to fit those slots for items - as well as creating jewelry - does not imbue the gemstones though - unless they happen to be a wizard, enchanter, cleric, etc.

     

    All that and that is just for a set o fplate armor.  Clothing and leatherworks could use similar types of creating processes...

    • 24 posts
    August 8, 2016 12:26 PM PDT

    And to continue the interdependence, perhaps the blessings or inscription could have a time limit or set amount of durability, necessitating a return to the crafter to update or refresh the enchantment. Gems could have durability and need to be replaced or have only a set number of charges, etc. This would be good for ingame economy.

    • 508 posts
    August 8, 2016 6:06 PM PDT

    I like the idea of Transcribing/Inscribing as a rule by which if a person chooses NOT to inscribe - the power of the buff is lessened.  However he can get the base buff changed at any time.  By Inscribing the armor you get a certain percentage boost to the base buff (say 20%) - however - this then becomes permanenet.  You can no longer change the base buff.  I like the idea of returning to a number of the crafter to swap out imbued/blessed/whatever gemstones though.

    I would also like to see some rarity to the better gemstones that matter.  In early EQ getting a Black Saphire was NOT an easy thing to do.  But a few years in and those things dropped like sand.

     

    By including INSCRIBING as a craft I think it could lead to a point where a decent tank will have multiple sets of armor - and the use of the armor would depend on where he was playing for a bit.

    Let's say he needs to run down into that undead dungeon we were talking about.  He takes the right armor etc. and he does well because of his forethought.  As the group splits after a lengthy play session a friend logs in and asks him to come help him in a goblin dungeon.  The undead armor he has on won't give him ANY bonuses etc.  BUT!  He can run to his house and check out his armor stands (made by a carpenter) for other armor sets he has had created and swaps to something more appropriate.  Now he is going to kick some gobbie butt!

     

    I do like your thinking though.  Maybe we give a time limit to the buff for non-inscribed armor vs. inscribed armor?  Oh wait!  Maybe we make the timed effect a part of the gemstones!  Hmmm...  lot's to think on...

    • 508 posts
    August 8, 2016 6:11 PM PDT

    Oh - by the way - I LIKE this kind of interdependence in crafting!  EQ2 tried interdependence in crafting at first.  Oh my it was a disaster.  One class had to make a piece which was required by three other classes, but then another class had to make some pieces and so on and so on so much so that by the time you actually got a usable item - a LOT of time had passed.  It  got to the point that getting all the materials you needed to make the item and the TIME invested in getting the mats and getting the item created - well, hell - you were better off just grinding in crappy gear and leveling up and using drops to gear up.  By the time you got everything required to get a set of armor - you had already outleveled it.

     

    I doo hope some creative thinking goes into determining the time invested/reward aspect of the items created....

    • 1010 posts
    August 8, 2016 6:21 PM PDT

    I like the idea, but, I do think you'd have to be careful to not create mudflation too quickly from being able to add too many stats to items.  I'd prefer to have very few stats on items for the first 30 or so levels.  Perhaps there would be some sort of enhancement limit similar to the Diablo games where they'd only have 1 or 2 sockets.  But, you'd be able to change the inscription or blessing with a different reagent removing them (another money sink) to add a different blessing/inscription on it.  It would also tie in nicely with Pantheon using situational gear.

    • 508 posts
    August 8, 2016 6:39 PM PDT

    Right right!  I agree.  When i am thinking of low level crafting I am thinking +1 or +2 on things - and then gradually getting netter based on the level of hte crafter and the quality of the item created etc.

     

    I agree totally n the number of "sockets" for gemstones.  I don't want to see more than 2 sockets - EVER.  Maybe max-level crafting could get it to 2 AT BEST.  I would also liek to see some - not all - dropped gear have a VERY SLIM chance at having sockets too.  But again - nothing getting more than 2 slots unless it is top-tier raid gear and then NEVER more than three.  I totally like and agree with the hot-swapping of gemstones.  But inscribing means you are making a permanent mark on the armor/weapons.  I think the bonus you get from doing that comes with the penalty of never being able to change it.  It's a trade off.

    • 14 posts
    August 10, 2016 12:53 PM PDT

    I like this approach, the more player classes required is more attractive then more crafting trades in my view as one person can be a crafter of all trades. 

     

    Raises claw in support....

     

    Godzilla

    • 508 posts
    August 10, 2016 4:05 PM PDT

    While I do agree with requireing interdependencies to a certain extent, I don't want to overkill it.

    • 1553 posts
    August 13, 2016 5:41 AM PDT

    Along these lines, I can see exceptions for Cultural armors. I liked the concept of Cultural armors and along the lines of having someone add rune etchings, or faceted gems. I would like to see this expressed as Cultural and deity specific armors. So a race that worshiped a non-standard god for that race would be able to crate unique cultural armor with  only deity specific boosts/additions.

    The cultural armor would be- well I always wanted it to be ultimate or in line with raid gear- as I thought this was a humble or alternate way to get some raid type gear if one did not raid all that often or did not like guilds but could get good at crafting. This may mean everyone would race to get cultural, but I think some balance as ot the drops for patterns or other items could be on the same rarity or difficulty as other raid type encounters.

    Don't get me wrong, I also think some of the higher "patches" or gems should be obtained from raid type or level specific encounters ( cannot get patch of invis to undead form 50 level monster unless you at level 50 solo engage the 50 level monster) I am using "patch" because my RP juices are not flowing so readily this AM (lol) 

    I was an Erudite mage in EQ and I decided as Quellious as my deity- just because. And when I got good at craftinbg, Lol I really had ort search high and low ot find a Erudite, Cleric that followed quellious- it was not easy! I almost thought there were none! just to imbue the topaz's for me because it was a class and deity specific crafting imbue spell. Terrortantula silk ( non-stacking....) no problem. Fincing a Erudite Cleric of Quellious? - almost as hard as getting quilimane ot spaen.

    • 508 posts
    August 14, 2016 9:43 AM PDT

    There needs to be SOME limits to how many crafting skills a player gets.

     

    Main crafting - what a player WANTS to craft

    Secondary crafting - based on the players Adventure class

    Cultural crafting - based on a player's race

    Diety crafting - based on a players choice of diety

    Harvest skill - based on the players harvesting choice (let's say picking bonuses in skinning or selecting to farm)

     

    Thats a lot of choices there...

     

    ideas?

    • 315 posts
    August 26, 2016 8:30 AM PDT

    I don't think any one crafting class should be able to craft an entire peice of gear or whatnot.  Armorsmiths do not work in cloth or leather, but ever wear a breastplate with no padding at all?  Leatherwokers make leather armor, but without rivets or nails or something it's kinda hard to keep it together, thus the need for that smith.

    IMHO, VG was the epitome of how crafting should be done, especially with the house and ship bulding.  I was an armorsmith, but I had to get my cloth padding from other crafters.  While I had alts that between them had all the crafting spheres covered, I always went to the community first (my guild normally had or could make what i was in need of) which was fine with me as it promoted me to actually interact with other players which is what Pantheon is all about.  EQ was quite smilar, but the whole "put it in the container, hit combine and pray" method of crafting just turned me off to no end.

    • 24 posts
    August 26, 2016 8:10 PM PDT

    I believe that crafting (much like how classes rely on each other to pick up strengths/weaknesses) should intermingle amongst each other at least some of the time. From my past experiences in MMOs, being able to craft everything in my profession led to a very boring and linear experience. Many of my recipes would go unused (especially early level gear/materials). This is something that would be enjoyable to avoid in Pantheon.

    Of course not every item needs to rely on other professions providing materials to craft. Perhaps only certain items (higher level/quality) should need resources from other professions. At the very least, I would prefer not to have a profession tab filled to the brim with unused/meaningless recipes which were only good for leveling said profession to higher levels.

    • 508 posts
    August 27, 2016 6:14 AM PDT

    I think a person needs to be able to produce a finished and usable item all on their own.  Now if they want a BETTER item they will have have to rely on others for help.  The Coldain Prayer Shawl is a fine example.  Sure - you could be a tailor and create a cloth shouder item to walk around in.  But THIS epic item required all kinds of help.  In the end, it was the very epitome of craftable gear.

    • 357 posts
    August 27, 2016 2:22 PM PDT

    i think that some things should be able to be made without outside help, but some things shouldnt. it should make sense that if you want to make chainmail, you must have a leatherworker make the leather underlay, by the same token if a leatherworker wants to make a studded leather armor they need a blacksmith to make studs. and maybe the leatherwoker also needs a tanning agent made by a brewmaster if the gear is to have stats, while the smith needs a catalyst made by the alchemist.

     

    so in response yes i think that it would be feesable to make an item for skill leveling purposes but to make a real useful item with high demand it should take the efforts of multiple crafters. maybe the brewmaster and alchemist need rare/semirare moster drops for the good stuff to be made.

    • 323 posts
    September 6, 2016 4:55 PM PDT

    Nephretiti said:

    I think a person needs to be able to produce a finished and usable item all on their own.  Now if they want a BETTER item they will have have to rely on others for help.  The Coldain Prayer Shawl is a fine example.  Sure - you could be a tailor and create a cloth shouder item to walk around in.  But THIS epic item required all kinds of help.  In the end, it was the very epitome of craftable gear.

    • 323 posts
    September 6, 2016 5:08 PM PDT

    I very much like your original idea. Mudflation can be controlled by making the runes, enchantments, etc... dissapate over time. Thus driving the player economy creating the need for more player made runes, enchantments, etc..

    I also agree with interdependency in crafting, but I think there is some merit in a crafter being able to produce a finished product on their own as I have quoted Nephretiti above.

    Some items simply need to be purchased from other crafters to help drive the economy. That said, perhaps npc vendors should sell certain items to regulate item prices.

    Craftable gear does need to comply with class specific masteries also, which opens up another big can of worms. I think, if done correctly, crafting may hold a very fun and intriguing place in pantheonrotf. A good crafting system takes a whole lot of resources though and might be costly to produce on a grand scale. Have to keep our fingers crossed on this one, but I am certain at least the roots/foundation of something worthy of future expansion will be there at launch.

    • 96 posts
    September 9, 2016 7:38 AM PDT

    I don't know how feasible this is, but I would love to see the ability to learn different crafting styles per each profession.

    Armorers, weaponsmiths and tailors may choose a racial style and can even learn "forgotten" styles through deconstructing found pieces and/or locating pattern and design books. They would be able to, of course, learn enchanted embellishments such as: Flibberty Rivets - Mott Flibberty designed these rivets allowing greater mobility in the armor which means an agility boost for dodging, parrying, blocking, et cetera; Eleena's Embroidery - a lovely pattern of magical origin that aids in fluid arm and leg movements, which assists dexterity-based skills like lock-picking, aiming arrows and smoother spell-casting; Degga's Anvil - a pommel that allows for a heavier "business end" of a weapon, increasing its weight overall, but also increasing its damage without sacrificing speed (more endurance to use, but does more damage); Seamus's Speedy Insoles - leather shoe augment that gives the shoe a clickable SoW, once per day.

    Chefs would have myriad recipes with buffs already, but what of utility? Brick Muffin, stackable - thrown object with nearly a stone's weight and has the added benefit of taunting the target; Whipped Pie, not stackable - same as the brick muffin, but lighter and also reduces the "call for help" range of the mob; Sugar weapons - items made from sugar that are one-time use and do amazing damage, but also have no aggro, since the sugar dissolves, leaving no trace; Slow-baked materials - chefs know how to be patient. Once per day, they may slow bake a piece of armor or a weapon to give it slightly more AC; Alchemists aren't the only chemists around - chefs may make poison antidote cakes which almost totally mitigate the effects of the poison.

    Jewellers have it hard. They have to make far too many super expensive items where the materials are simply lost because the item has no stats and don't even show up on the character when worn. To aid in this, I believe that a jeweller should be able to deconstruct, anneal, reclaim gemstones, imbue simple items (with help from an enchanter at greater cost), cut gemstones to fit the stat sets that classes favor, so that an Onyx is shaped into a heart for +DEX, +STA; a diamond shape for +DEX, +AGI; a half sphere for minor +DEX, +AGI, +STA, +STR; a flat square shape for +STR, +STA; a natural shape for +CHA, +DEX and more...; As delineated above, I would also like to see these gems worked into armors and weapons; the side business of jewellers could be tinkering. A jewller/tinkerer could make pots and pans, baking sheets, et cetera which give skill boosts to aid chefs; a jewller/tinkerer could also make jewelled flasks with magical properties, like reducing alcohol effects so that an acoholic beverage with stat-giving properties could be used with less penalty or perhaps they could make lids for potters to aid in the efficacy of their creations.

    Potters are the unsung heroes of the crafting world. They make all of the wonderful clay bits and ceramics that hold our world together. Potters should be able to make items that offer a good amount of use to any adventurer. I believe potters could make portable ovens to use for cooking/baking and also to keep warm; they could also make coolies, which are pots that intentionally "sweat" water to help keep a character cool; there would also be a market for instruments, pendants, gauges for ears, and hopefully, ceramic armor treatments and enamelling for wooden armor pieces.

    Fletching/Bowyering is a very specialized skill, with its chief skills lying in wood carving/shaping and the use of threads and glue to make their products. I believe that they should also make: fishing poles; fishing lures; shaped wooden boning for armorers and tailors to work into lightweight armors for shamans and druids; bone boning for druids and monks; sap-infused leather for monk and shamans; the ability to work with enchanted feathers for fletching and fishing as well as jewelrymaking; dreamcatchers to help with medding; flocking - adding feathers to a garment help with the sneak ability.

    Brewing should have all kinds of fun beverages and many of these would complement cooking. It is my opinion that this tradeskill also would find success dabbling in stains and dyes. Perhaps acids could be part of their products as well. Acids would help remove tarnish and rust, improving weapons and armor. It could also be used for etching for bowyers to make their bows and staves with ornate and intricate designs.

    Research is a rather cut and dry profession as it stands, but it is possible that a little more could come of it, such as: one-time use scrolls; improvement of one's techniques for greater effect; or research could be used in the creation of instructions for a non-tradesperson to perform a combination for a quest with a higher chance of success.

    Now for the class-specific (EQ) tradeskills:

    Alchemists (potionmaking) and such could find new ways to use their ingredients for making other items, such as: flavor enhancers; powdered additives for making glass objects of various colors or even clear glass that can be used to make glasses for casters that decreases their meditation time; glues for weapon finesse, jewelrymaking, ; weapon black for assisting those who are able to hide; soft step powder for those who sneak; water purification powder which turns an empty flask into a water-generating flask for one week of game time; powders for glazes; powders for cooking.

    Poisonmaking is really rather pigeon-holed as an offshoot of alchemy. Poisons and antidotes. Done deal, right? What if it extended to pharmaceuticals in general, since effects on the body vary depending on dosage? After all, most substances are lethal in high doses, but a great many are curatives or impart short-term benefits in lower dosages. I believe that the role of a poisonmaker would be even better as an apothecary. Instead of pure buffs, like the alchemist provides, how about buffs with side effects? For example, a haste preparation that is really fast but slows over time in a way that makes it a debuff toward the end. It would also be stackable, so that in order to keep up a high haste, you would have to keep using more, but the effects are on a longer timer and diminish a little quicker each time, meaning a longer recovery time of negative effects, the more you attempt to use. This would prevent spamming because the down time would not be worth using more than one or two preparations. The ability to create such items would be cheaper and peak higher than potions at first.

    I'm just throwing ideas out as fast as I think of them. I would love to see more of everyone else's ideas that follow in this vein, where tradeskills can be made even more interesting and fulfilling than what we had over a decade ago.


    This post was edited by Nasotha at September 9, 2016 7:39 AM PDT
    • 508 posts
    December 18, 2016 10:23 PM PST

    Do we have an ETA yet for design on crafting?  I know it is early, but i think there is a great lull here in anticipation of Alpha and that crafting prolly won't make it in until Beta...