First off I am brand new here and this is my first post. I wanted to bring up this topic because I have strong feelings about it and have not seen anything else about it on the forums.
How do others feel about it? I started EQ back in 1999 and back then Multi-Boxing was not very common but with technology and low cost of PC hardware you see people doing solo raids in games like WoW and EQ. I personally hate it and feel like it cheapens the experience paying to win and there's nothing I hate more than pay to win in games. I tried EQ Live a couple years ago and pretty much EVERYONE I encountered was boxing close to a full party and taking all the content. I feel like it really hurts the community aspect of the game which is what made original EQ so great.
Errr. I tried multi boxing with just 2 chars. it was a nigthmare of which I would never do again.
However, multiboxing with 5+ chars are very 'in' now a days in wow and eq1. I do personally not like it as it is, in my opinion, a pay to win thing. I do not like to dictate on how people should play to have their enjoyment though. So I guess I am saying that if they do indeed multi box and find that more engaging than a single toon, all power to them.
There is a catch though. And that is people setting up a program to aid them in this en devour. i do not like that at all. It basically means (to me) that they are using a program to maximize the experience for themselves. and that is getting an awful lot close to tampering with the game of which you are playing. i do not like that at all!
As always, just my thoughts. :)
Velmeir.
I wish it was looked upon as exploiting but since with monthly subs/box costs I am sure Devs see it as just more potential revenue. How many other games or genres can you buy multiple games and play multiple characters in order to make the experience "easier"? I can't think of a single other example. I'd love to see the hard stance of 1 active character per live person even though I am sure that's a hard thing to enforce. I know P99 does a good job of enforncing mult-boxing.
Love or hate it EQ would have been long buried if they did not allow multiboxing. I personally never did it back in the day but for a few years I have jumped on EQ Test and play 3 free accounts with three mercs. I do this because it make me a group of 6 and I can play group content solo. I get why someone would look down on this and for all purposes I would hope a brand new game would not particularly want this. But for 15 years into EQ I feel it’s perfectly fine.
The hope though is the game would be challenging enough that it would not be worth the work or the time and effort to box. I would hope though that there would not be rules against it if someone wanted to try it as long as they are not cheating with auto programs and such.
If my wife has a character and I load her person up to hang in my casual group why we play around seems like something most people would not be against imo.
This will get ugly really quick. :)
I don't have any problem with multi boxing as long as the person is playing both characters. If the person is found to be using a program to run the other account then I agree that is exploiting.
I've multi boxed in EQ1, EQ2, and Vanguard. But only when I needed too. I found no enjoyment by doing it but it helped me enjoy the game when I couldn't do anything else. I played a DPS as my main and only played the healer when my guild needed it.
The reason I two boxed was to help me enjoy the game when others weren't around. I always preferred grouping over two boxing.
Multi boxing isn't fun for me. If you do two box it actually takes a bit of skill and the ability to handle doing multiple things at once (Stress management). Ask anyone who has ever grouped up with me while I'm boxing I get pretty stressed out and will only do it in a group setting when it's that or stop grouping vs. going to bed early.
A lot of people who two box do so because they have nobody to group up with. Many people live overseas and don't always have a high population to find groups with during the hours they play online. Imagine living in Japan and playing Pantheon (a group focused game) and sitting around for hours trying to find a tank and a healer then enough DPS to fill a group each night. I did this is EQ1 for years. I would sit some nights LFG for hours and then when I'd finally get a party I'd travel for up to 30 minutes just to get to the group and it would fold. Being able to kite on my ranger while once in awhile throwing myself a heal while I looked for a group never hurt anybody.
I would really enjoy myself in P99 if I could actually two box. I love grouping but when you can't find a group it's something you can do while waiting. If the developers want to spend the time their are ways they can prevent players from playing multiple characters on one system. If somebody wants to two box they will be forced to have more then one computer.
I'm pretty sure my donations for the game gives me a lifetime subscription. I will however pay for another account to two box once in awhile and support the game with more income. I will eventually move back to Japan. It would nice to have something to do while everyone else is in bed or at work please. :)
M/boxing has been around as long as MMO's have, and so has this same debate.
Their is nothing in most games rules to prevent it ( there are a few exceptions i believe ) as long as they pay for all the accounts and don't step over the line of botting or intruding on other players enjoyment of the game i.e farming out dungeons etc, granted sometimes that line can get blurred and moved slightly but that is generally were it ends up.
I am not a fan of it myself, mostly because it takes away the whole point of playing with others, but each to their own.
The two boxing I don't really see as a problem... In fact I could see myself if I really enjoyed the game having a 2nd account for buffing/travel. It's when you have people playing 3+ characters taking on content meant for a full group is when I see it as a problem. I understand peoples desire to solo everything but its what makes modern MMO's fade so fast. We need a game that is challenging and encourages interacting with the community and working together.
I boxed for a stint in EQ1 and it was great for general XPing and even killing old school bosses, which was a blast. However, IMO, current content should be challenging enough and require enough tediousness to make it much less feasible without having to restrict it. Boxing does reduce/remove group play, but I don't see an issue with it being used to defeat outdated content that a person has outleveled/outgeared.
I would like to see current content balanced around a full group, with bosses being balanced around a full group that requires disciplines (if any). How named are handled is an entire other topic that should have its own thread, but I want them nasty :) In this scenario, boxing would not be sensible. It would also be cool if the AI of the mobs was revolutionized to add to the difficulty and complexity of the game. Again, another thread.
-Zaphodd
I worry more about gameplay that affects others directly, training on purpose, Buff kills/Player bombs, Kill Stealing, necro looting, all of these actually take the fun out of the game for real people. Boxing is ones choice because they lack the social skills to have friends.
Boxing isn't an issue, people pay to do it, and it only affects them. Banning it won't make them group, it will cause them to leave, so who cares if we have boxers, their just extra revenue.
I boxed harvesters in VG, but would drop a toon in a second for real people joining me. Harvesting in vanguard was a time consuming (and rightly so) endeavor made much better in a group, and with real people came companionship for a tedious rather mundane task......That's where friends are made, just like the boats in old school EQ.
Boxing worked in EQ mainly because the combat required little movement, was very slow paced and most melees had very few abilities. I'm sure melees will probably have considerably more abilities to choose from, and if the combat pace and interaction were even slightly higher, the ability to box efficiently will quickly go out the window.
This topic has actually been brought up and discussed a lot, we have Think Tanks, Polls and Forum threads all discussing multiboxing, so please use the "search function" in the top right corner of your screen (on PC) before creating a new thread in future as posting a topic that has already been posted before can result in your thread being removed.
One topic that even had Brad and myself responding can be found here:
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1453/multi-toon-system
Kilsin said:
This topic has actually been brought up and discussed a lot, we have Think Tanks, Polls and Forum threads all discussing multiboxing, so please use the "search function" in the top right corner of your screen (on PC) before creating a new thread in future as posting a topic that has already been posted before can result in your thread being removed.
One topic that even had Brad and myself responding can be found here:
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1453/multi-toon-system
To be fair Kilsin it can be hard to find much of anything after its no longer on the front page or commented on recently and sometimes you search the wrong terms or the results are from a section you don't have access too.
cram9030 said:
Kilsin said:
This topic has actually been brought up and discussed a lot, we have Think Tanks, Polls and Forum threads all discussing multiboxing, so please use the "search function" in the top right corner of your screen (on PC) before creating a new thread in future as posting a topic that has already been posted before can result in your thread being removed.
One topic that even had Brad and myself responding can be found here:
https://www.pantheonrotf.com/forums/topic/1453/multi-toon-system
To be fair Kilsin it can be hard to find much of anything after its no longer on the front page or commented on recently and sometimes you search the wrong terms or the results are from a section you don't have access too.
I am the biggest critic of this site out of anyone and all I did was type "Multi" into the search box and got 11 pages, it's not that hard man, people just do not think to use it before posting a new thread and it needs to be mentioned every now and then. ;)
Continuing to ignore the search function and post multiple copies of thread will result in the removal of the thread without any warning, so I wanted to make it clear mate.
Out of curiosity, what drives the obsession over thread consolidation? Is there a functional reason for it or is it merely a "these are my rules and by god they will be followed" thing? I've known Kilsin quite some time and while I know he is a bit of a control freak (takes one to know one my friend, a common trait among guild leaders) he has never been crazy about it. I would think multiple threads about a topic are pretty harmless, so there must be a technical reason for running the risk of offending even one potential player for no reason. I'm sure this is an IT related reason, so allow me to show my ignorance by asking the more technical among us, "what gives?"
Vaildez said:
I did use the search function prior to creating this thread. I searched for words like "box" & "boxing" since those are most common terms for people playing multiple toons.
I appreciate the effort then Vaildez, it was more of a general message to give everyone a fresh reminder, nothing personal meant against you mate :)
Filzin said:
Out of curiosity, what drives the obsession over thread consolidation? Is there a functional reason for it or is it merely a "these are my rules and by god they will be followed" thing? I've known Kilsin quite some time and while I know he is a bit of a control freak (takes one to know one my friend, a common trait among guild leaders) he has never been crazy about it. I would think multiple threads about a topic are pretty harmless, so there must be a technical reason for running the risk of offending even one potential player for no reason. I'm sure this is an IT related reason, so allow me to show my ignorance by asking the more technical among us, "what gives?"
The main reason is that these are not your typical game forums mate, they are development forums that the team uses to gather a lot of information and feedback and if it's broken up into 10 different threads it makes life extremely difficult to try and retrieve that information quickly. So while I am probably more inclined to keep things neat and tidy (as you would know, our careers/industry expect this of us) it is also to benefit the team and help them and myself locate information quickly.
We discuss a lot of these topics internally and use them for Roundtables, Podcasts, Reports, Building the game etc. as this is our main source of information from the Community so I am tasked with two roles that kind of counter each other, first and foremost the Community Manager, which is basically a chief liaison position and it is my job to consolidate all of this valuable information and alert the team to it (usually the individual team members that is best applies too but sometimes I will link to the whole team to view a good discussion thread) and the well being and growth of the Community as a whole (including social media etc.).
I am also tasked with Lead Moderator (I have had years of experience in this role with other sites), which can be tough to balance both roles, as one encourages/praises/gives with one hand while the other warns/smacks/takes away with the other hand, so trust me when I say that it can be very difficult managing both mate but I try to find a nice balance and sometimes you can see one role show over the other but that is something I am continually working on.
I am currently the sole Moderator too so once I find some qualified Mods to help me, I will be able to take more of an advisory role as the Lead Mod and lean much more heavily towards my CM role, which I enjoy a lot more! While the Mods do the bulk of the work on the forums :)
So I am sorry if I sound a bit harsh or anal sometimes while trying to balance both of these roles, I will try and ease off a bit until I can sort my team out but some of it is required to remind members of the guidelines.
Now putting my Mod hat back on, let's bring this back on topic of Multi boxing please ;)
I guess the real question is, if you decided you didn't want multi-boxing... what could you do to stop it? If Diablo 3 can't stop elaborate bots that can do everything in the game better than even you can, what makes you think Pantheon will be able to stop someone from multi-boxing. It was even illegal in EQ1 in the early days for 1 person to own multiple accounts, it didn't stop anyone.
The only thing they can do is hope that they design a game that makes it difficult for players to write programs to control the client (b0ts).
And on another note, I feel like thats actually been a focus of some game design in the past, with the constant action required and very fast paced combat they hoped to quell the ability of players to bot, but it never works. No game has ever stopped botting, and botting is really what's at the heart of multi-boxing. The malice towards players who multi-box subsides greatly when no program is being used, it's just player skill.
However in Everquest's case, even people who didn't use programs to multi-box could easily run buff bots and port bots, which diminished the community of the game because you were technically a 1 RL person group. My opinion on this is that if you try to code out the ability for players to do this, you will inevitably ruin the game. Best to just deal with it however you can through bot detection and real human GM's out on the field watching people.
Exmortis said:
Boxing is ones choice because they lack the social skills to have friends.
This seems like a pretty judgmental statement. Maybe you've just had a bad experience with multi-boxers? In the mid-later EQ days, I very much enjoyed boxing 4 characters at one time. I found it to be a lot more challenging, rewarding, and fun.... and I'm a social butterfly! From what I can see so far, maybe the mechanics, terrain, and massive worlds might organically limit ones motivation to box on the regular.
Gadgets said:
Exmortis said:Boxing is ones choice because they lack the social skills to have friends.
This seems like a pretty judgmental statement. Maybe you've just had a bad experience with multi-boxers? In the mid-later EQ days, I very much enjoyed boxing 4 characters at one time. I found it to be a lot more challenging, rewarding, and fun.... and I'm a social butterfly! From what I can see so far, maybe the mechanics, terrain, and massive worlds might organically limit ones motivation to box on the regular.
Agree'd It's more of a hobby to many. Our guild was probably one of the bigger clans for MB for SWTOR. We were the only Sith guild in the game that I could see that allowed/supported it. We had the blessing from the owner of http://www.dual-boxing.com/content/ community. Honestly there isn't anything wrong with it as long as it's watched just like any other player feature.
I am sure its been talked about a lot. In fact I did a thread about it sometime back with Jason.
Yes I am for multi boxing. Yes I think you should be able to run multiple clients on one computer. If some one happens to script something to inhance their game play then so be it. As long as its not Duping items or gold sellers and they are all PAID accounts.
Nolaen said:
I am against multiboxing. Its a MMO , if you wanna do stuff with yourself just go and play solo games.
People just multibox so they can do content that is meant for more players alone.
Again, I think your judging without knowing reasons why people actually multibox. I know for past games, a lot of users multiboxed because they were a huge altaholic but didn't have time to level 20 alts. So it allowed them to level a couple of characters at a time. Does this make them not social? no some of the most social members have been multiboxers.
Rivacom said:
Nolaen said:
I am against multiboxing. Its a MMO , if you wanna do stuff with yourself just go and play solo games.
People just multibox so they can do content that is meant for more players alone.
Again, I think your judging without knowing reasons why people actually multibox. I know for past games, a lot of users multiboxed because they were a huge altaholic but didn't have time to level 20 alts. So it allowed them to level a couple of characters at a time. Does this make them not social? no some of the most social members have been multiboxers.
Thats quite a minority. Saying I box because I dont have enough time to play more chars ... kinda doesnt sound right to me.
The SK Box armies are true. I have not only heard stories about them but seen them myself. It was on the Fippy Darkpaw progression server when old Raiddragons been easily farmed by SKs. Dragon was dead even before he appeared.
I searched for banana and found a post with bananas.
I dont think you can really stop people from multi-boxing, so i guess more power to them if they are able to manage it. There is this one guy on WoW that multiboxes 40 characters and just walks through the enemy town killing everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNrgbAlo_LA