It’s starting to feel like you are making a WoW clone. Defenders of VR may say …” it's just the art, the game play will be different!” Maybe, but they explicitly said in the new video the reason for the art was to make the game run smoother and to bring more players in the game. You know what else will bring the game more players? Making WoW 2.0.
This is starting to look quite different then the game we were promised. Makes me worry a lot. I’m sure all the fanboys will come running to defend the art. But I hate it. Super cartoony, corny and made for children. I thought Pantheon’s current market was old school MMO (EQ) people. I’m guessing that’s the majority of people that pledged.
To be fair I didn’t think the old graphics were great either, but I figured that’s because it was just alpha, and things would improve. Also, to be fair, WoW does run super smooth. Though, the game sucks and the community of kids that play WoW are the worst scum the world has ever seen. If that demographic of people are lured to Pantheon, we’re doomed!
Sweety said:It’s starting to feel like you are making a WoW clone. Defenders of VR may say …” it's just the art, the game play will be different!” Maybe, but they explicitly said in the new video the reason for the art was to make the game run smoother and to bring more players in the game. You know what else will bring the game more players? Making WoW 2.0.
It's starting to feel like VR is making cookies. Defenders of VR may say ..." it's just baked goods, they will taste very different!" Maybe, but they explicitly said the reason for the baked goods was to bring more eaters to the feast. You know what else will bring more eaters to the feast? Making Cookies!
Sweety said:I’m sure all the fanboys will come running to defend the art. But I hate it. Super cartoony, corny and made for children.
You are totally free to not like the new art style.
Sweety said:Also, to be fair, WoW does run super smooth. Though, the game sucks and the community of kids that play WoW are the worst scum the world has ever seen. If that demographic of people are lured to Pantheon, we’re doomed!
You're free to have whatever opinion of the community of players in WoW. But if you were thinking that VR was not expecting MMORPG players to want to play their MMORPG.... well I don't know what to tell you.
GoofyWarriorGuy said:Sweety said:It’s starting to feel like you are making a WoW clone. Defenders of VR may say …” it's just the art, the game play will be different!” Maybe, but they explicitly said in the new video the reason for the art was to make the game run smoother and to bring more players in the game. You know what else will bring the game more players? Making WoW 2.0.
It's starting to feel like VR is making cookies. Defenders of VR may say ..." it's just baked goods, they will taste very different!" Maybe, but they explicitly said the reason for the baked goods was to bring more eaters to the feast. You know what else will bring more eaters to the feast? Making Cookies!
Sweety said:I’m sure all the fanboys will come running to defend the art. But I hate it. Super cartoony, corny and made for children.
You are totally free to not like the new art style.
Sweety said:Also, to be fair, WoW does run super smooth. Though, the game sucks and the community of kids that play WoW are the worst scum the world has ever seen. If that demographic of people are lured to Pantheon, we’re doomed!
You're free to have whatever opinion of the community of players in WoW. But if you were thinking that VR was not expecting MMORPG players to want to play their MMORPG.... well I don't know what to tell you.
Fanboys unite!
I think I can claim a fanboy title. I have *earned* that title over more years than I prefer to think about. I can suck-up with the very best.
Good news - the art now is a really big step in development. Bad news - it is not a step *forward*.
((hastily grabs fanboy hat as it starts to blow off))
But the game as a whole still looks like it has the potential to be a lot better than current MMOs so I still support it.
I took a break after the last PA session to deal with health issues and returned to see this shocker. Quite disappointed to say the least. I prefer a more realistic style, not some childish cartoons. And a 5 min video to address this just seems inadequate. I'm not giving up on them, but am sorely disappointed in VR at this point.
My suggestion is that this art style can still work, but you definitely need to darken it up, add some grit. Make it more mature. It does feel like it's aiming at TOO broad of an audience now. I have no interest in playing a hardcore MMO with a bunch of 11 year olds who think the game might be like fortnite.
Make it dark, make it gritty, remember your core audience is in their 30s to 50s. The art style definitely can work. The mobs, the mountains, the rocks, the plants, all look pretty cool, IMO. The character models and environments need to be a little more mature, though.
dorotea said:I think I can claim a fanboy title. I have *earned* that title over more years than I prefer to think about. I can suck-up with the very best.
Good news - the art now is a really big step in development. Bad news - it is not a step *forward*.
((hastily grabs fanboy hat as it starts to blow off))
But the game as a whole still looks like it has the potential to be a lot better than current MMOs so I still support it.
I think this is still probably true, meaning that though many people (not all) really hate the new art, the game still has many redeeming qualities. My fear is, because VR is showing they are so out of touch with what seemingly most people want from a visual standpoint, they might also be out of touch with what we want from a gameplay standpoint.
Sweety - I do not think they are out of touch at all. They know what we want.
I think they are finally getting to the point where they are more eager, maybe desperate, maybe frantic, to reduce costs and speed up development and actually get to the point of releasing a game.
Maybe because they also really want to see it and get off of the treadmill. Maybe because money is getting shorter and no producer or larger investor is in sight and the hamsters powering the treadmill are old and hungry and cannot keep going much longer.
I almost hate to say it but this change screams "dying hamsters" to me.
I do not welcome the new art. If it betokens a genuinely felt sense of urgency I welcome that.
dorotea said:Sweety - I do not think they are out of touch at all. They know what we want.
I think they are finally getting to the point where they are more eager, maybe desperate, maybe frantic, to reduce costs and speed up development and actually get to the point of releasing a game.
Maybe because they also really want to see it and get off of the treadmill. Maybe because money is getting shorter and no producer or larger investor is in sight and the hamsters powering the treadmill are old and hungry and cannot keep going much longer.
I almost hate to say it but this change screams "dying hamsters" to me.
I do not welcome the new art. If it betokens a genuinely felt sense of urgency I welcome that.
Desperate. Great word choice. I think you hit the nail on the head. I'm betting there are many people working at VR thinking...
"we don't like this change, but we don't really have a choice."
Perhaps investors are angry, they want to see ROI sooner than later. Perhaps there is new leadership that doesn’t care about the vision sold 10 years ago. All just guesses, but it reeks of "desperate".
Not that I personally agree, but just pretending for a moment. Assume that it is all out of desperation, would that make it bad? Don't we all continue to fight for what we want, even desperately? If this art change was actually out of desperation I'd still applaud them for making the move that they knew they had to make in order to continue building what they dream to build.
Ranarius said:Not that I personally agree, but just pretending for a moment. Assume that it is all out of desperation, would that make it bad? Don't we all continue to fight for what we want, even desperately? If this art change was actually out of desperation I'd still applaud them for making the move that they knew they had to make in order to continue building what they dream to build.
I see your point, but it's difficult to give credit to someone that made 100 bad choices, then finally 1 good one good choice, when it's really their only choice. Not saying VR made 100 mistakes, just trying to make a point out that, perhaps they should have planned better. They've had 10 years. Still, no matter what the reason is, the result is something that many of us don't really like.
But yes, if the choice was to close up shop and go home, or to make an ugly game. I suppose making an ugly game is the better choice.
Prevenge said:My suggestion is that this art style can still work, but you definitely need to darken it up, add some grit. Make it more mature ...
... The mobs, the mountains, the rocks, the plants, all look pretty cool, IMO. The character models and environments need to be a little more mature, though.
I am in full agreement. I hope they read comments like this.
Prevenge said:100%My suggestion is that this art style can still work, but you definitely need to darken it up, add some grit. Make it more mature. It does feel like it's aiming at TOO broad of an audience now..
Make it dark, make it gritty, remember your core audience is in their 30s to 50s. The art style definitely can work. The mobs, the mountains, the rocks, the plants, all look pretty cool, IMO. The character models and environments need to be a little more mature, though.
I guess I will be in the minority on this, but I like the change for a few reasons. One it does make the game more accessible to those who not hardcore into the past. The games look will at least get curious eyes to at least take a look. That is good for the long term life of the game. Secondly, it will enable the game to run smoother at launch and allow more folks to jump in without having to worry about if their PC can run it. That is a problem that plagued EQ2 for sure when it launched and why WoW took over as the king. WoW was just easier on the PC than EQ2 was. Thirdly, the game will be able to stay relevant in the graphics department with this style and make it easier to stand the test of time just like WoW has. Just because it has a similar style, does not mean it will be a WoW clone. This game has more going on than WoW ever did. I like the style change. I was fine with the old as well. I will be playing either way, but I am glad they are looking toward running this game for a long time. Nicely done IMO.
I love the game and its tenets but I really hate the new art style. The overly bright colors and cartoonish characters feel completly out of place. The fauna looks okay I guess but the characters, their gear and the environment have lost so much. It looks less polished the lower res than it did before whereas before this change the main problem was just character animations that lmooked stiff. Plrease give us back our eerily beatiful landscapes, don't screw the great atmospheres you painstakingly built up with your weather/climate/fracture system by going this disny / pixar route.
I've waited for this game for almost a decade and paid to be a VIP. This is definitely not the game that we envisioned years ago. That being said, it's just the reality and I respect VR for trying as hard as they did to bring back the old magic. My kids will probably enjoy playing this on their phones if it comes out but not my cup of tea.
Looks more like Breath of the Wild and not like WoW imo.
I think it looks good, I agree with Prevenge that using a mature and gritty palette and set of atmospheric effects and set dressing will help a lot to allow this style to feel more mature and still appealing to the majority of backers.
Lighting, weather effects, music and atmospheric effects can add to this gritty feel too and will certainly help.
Hello,
yes, the new art video is ... unexpected. And i also do not like it. I do not like this Fortnite/WoW/Pixar-like art style. I hate the "goofiness"-factor in it.
Cheers
Have a gander at the video on the landing page of the main site; brooding, atmospheric, dangerous. Now have a look at the new wolf. I want to play fetch with it, not expect it to rip out my throat.
Well that didn't take long after it was pointed out to them that the videos on the main page were way more immersive, VR replaced them with a pic of a wall! But old pics are there if you look for them. Be quick, as it feels that this is a done deal and nothing, we are saying makes any impact on them what-so-ever. I guess that tells us that our views no longer hold much sway. Nicely done VR, a lesson in alienating long term supporters.
Stepping back, it seems to me that this was a move from the minute VR said there would be less comms from them. It seems to me that they knew there would be a backlash and VR didnt want to deal with it. Silence is golden! Here is a five step approach on how to alienate long time, committed supporters:
YES! I know there are those in favour, but there are just as many that want the original look and feel. VR, this sucks! This has been handled terribly and it is going in a direction away from what was promised!