I loved Blood Mages in Vanguard so much. A fun to play healer/nuker combo class with very a creative gameplay style that I've only ever seen in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes. Since Vanguard is a dead game now, this super awesome class is dead & it's so sad =(
I think the class fits the fantasy so well! Please please please please <3
Target your group mates as defensive targets & heal them through lifetaps & nukes on enemies! It's so fun! Zomgs!
The WoW Cleric had a similar mechanic in their "Shadow Form" but I could see this as a mechanic of the Necromancer. I see no reason why the Necro can't be a class that has similar effects with its primary role being CC if the heal was simply supplemental (similar to the Shadow Form Cleric in WoW). I could see a similar mechanic being used as their form of CC by maybe channeling/draining the "endurance" from an NPC to replenish life/endurance/mana to a player but it stops if the NPC is damaged (or the Necro stops channeling). That would allow for the Necro to fullfil a role as CC and provide support while effectively locking them out of the DPS role for the duration of the channel, and it also doesn't have the healing reliability of an actual healing class because it relies on an undamaged NPC.
I like that Darch. Maybe as like a skill tree kinda thing. I do feel like if the EQ necro could do that, they would be crazy powerful & overplayed. I more see a Necro having a health regen for a team mate based on damage a dot does. Blood Mages played like a healing wizard. Nuking an enemy & healing chunks of an allies health based on the dmg of the nuke. Never played a shadow priest in WoW
On reflection, I think I see a concern. Aggro.
The Devs have to do many balancing acts. One of the biggest is balancing hate generation. DPS is usually the class that pulls aggro off the tank, but healers sometimes do it as well. Which suggests to me that damage & healing aren't too far out of balance in generating hate, even if DPS does more.
Most classes only do a significant amount of one or the other. But a nuke-to-heal main healer has to do just as much healing as any other healer, plus waaaay more damage than any other healer. It seems to me that this would make it extremely difficult to find a balance.
If hate generation is balanced for the other 3 healers, then the nuking healer will be frequently/constantly pulling aggro off the tank.
If it is balanced for the nuker then the 3 other healers may never pull aggro off the tank.
It could even reduce the risk of DPS pulling aggro off the tank.
I'm sure it could be done if the game was designed for it from the start, but might require a pretty serious refactoring of hate generation in Pantheon.
@Jothany, The (threat) was a similar issue with WoW's shadow priest and it made it a balancing act of knowing how much damage you were dealing compared to how much healing you were doing and the amount of threat you generated to toggle the healing portion back or lower the damage... the shadow priest also took reduced damage, but it was a better build for soloing (or PvP) than it was for fulfilling a group role of healing or DPS... but it was still an option if there was a better suited healer in a group - in which case, the combination of extra DPS and extra heals at the same time (while not doing enough to pull threat) simply made for a nice addition to the heals and DPS. I don't think any "blood mage" or Necro would be a "primary healer" but instead a supplement (similar to a Bard's regeneration or a Paladin's heals).
More to your point on a hate balanding act, I think that would be a good way to simultaneously encourage and discourage players from playing that role - some people welcome the challenge of balancing threat; and I'm certain there will be some classes that can (and will) absolutely pull threat off of a tank if they try hard enough. Even with the DL's supposed increased threat over time, I would bet money that eventually some wizard or another beast DPS will be able to draw threat if they want (otherwise, there would be no skill required to playing a tank if all you had to do was spam a single skill set and hope the healer(s) keep you alive); likewise, there would be very little skill required to play DPS if threat management wasn't an issue either.
I'm also assuming that some of the support/CC classes will have ways to redirect or even drop/clear threat too.
Aggro has never been an issue for a Bloodmage. Quite the opposite. Lifetapping and group healing didnt generate any aggro at all (beside the small extra heal of the biggest lifetap).
Bloodmage was the best group healer in game not because of high healing numbers. It was an instant cast and unlike a Cleric who was playing the off-tank when doing so, you could group heal all day long. Even mana wasent an issue since you could transform life into mana any time.
The lower healing numbers were compensated by using a damage mitigation on the tank. You basically directed some of the damage from the tank to yourself.
Beside knowing the monsters (immunities, resists) and which one to lifetap (did the tank hit it and is enough life left on it), good positioning was important as well.
Group heals only had a 10m range, to cover everyone you usually stand between your tank and the rest of the group.
Playing the Bloodmage was quite complex and you had to make tons of quick decisions, but once you got used to it it was simple fantastic.
Never played a better class before and after it in any game.
I so much wished Pantheon would bring Bloodmages back to life but unfortunatly they were looking at EQ more than Vanguard.
Hi Noxa, welcome to the forums.
I remember how much people loved playing Blood Mage in Vanguard, even though I never played one. I've heard plenty of Fantheons expressing the same wish for Panth to have a healer that functions similarly to BM. Hopefully you'll find a class or two that you enjoy when the game releases.
See ya on Terminus.
Thank you Jothany for the warm welcome.
Ive always been a range caster type of player, going for most dps. Bloodmage was basically the last class i tried in Vanguard because i wasent a big fan of healing, watching healthbars all the time wasent my kind of thing.
To my surprise i started to love healing since i felt responsible and not just doing damage. The mix of damage and heal was perfect with all the complexity. Playing a Cleric still would bore me to death.
What i also liked was the image of the class. Some called it op, some downright bad. When you joined a new group usually some complained they want a proper healer like a cleric. Or some groups already had a cleric and they said i can go full dps. In the end the cleric was out of job and they never complained again.
When i have to pick now, Druid or Wizard looks most promising. But my biggest hope is to see a Bloodmage in an addon later.
Noxa said: Playing a Cleric still would bore me to death... When i have to pick now, Druid or Wizard looks most promising.
Haha. I made a Dwarf Cleric as my first char in Vanguard, figuring he would be fairly 'death resistant' as I wandered around learning the world. He certainly was, but killing stuff was sooo boring! I never have played another Cleric :)
I'm an altaholic and plan to have many chars. Wizard is definitely one of them. A healer is as well, but I won't decide between Druid & Shaman until I get to try out both a lot more in Alpha. Maybe won't decide until beta. I like Shaman a bit better generally, but the appeal of the Druid teleports is hard to resist. Of course, if I really can't decide I'll just play both hehe.
Well, i started with a Disciple, the mix of dps and healing looked promising. A cleric has great defences but almost no damage.
I didnt expect to play in groups often or even in raids. At that time i didnt know much about Vanguard.
Disciple was great and fun, until you had to melee a raid boss and at the same time keep your tank alive.....not fun.
In Vanguard was an outdoor area where you have to fight a few dragons. During the run usually 1 Dragon was skipped since you needed 2 healers to survive the fight.
Then i saw a single Bloodmage managing the healing in the fight and i was like, ok, this will be my next class.
Else i would have played alot of alts but this class cured me. ;)
Druid teleport is a nice QoL but that wouldnt change my decision. I like to do damage between the heals and not just buffing and debuffing all the time like a Shaman.
Since you are gonna play in Alpha, you can easily find out what you and me suits best. Lets hope Alpha isnt that far away...
I'm actually starting to test classes currenly in PA. It's just that this early, many things change regularly. So until the general 'flavor' of the classes is more firmly fixed - at least in Alpha, and maybe not until Beta - I'm trying to keep an open mind.
At present, we have no hard data to guess who will do more damage while healing. As far as pure melee damage goes, the Shaman will have an advantage of sorts.
Despite the info on their respective class pages, it is looking like Shaman will be wearing Leather armor while the Druid will be wearing Cloth, giving them a bit more freedom to wade into the thick of battle to do melee. Also, VR has said that different body types will be resistant/vulnerable to different damage types. Druid can only wield Crushing weapons while Shaman can wield both Crushing and Piercing.
Of course, anything can change between now and release. I'm sure both healers will be fun.
Cool, you are already testing in PA.
You are right, its too early and there will be plenty of changes. I guess in beta classes will be more or less fixed and only get minor balance changes.
I have the impression that Cleric and Shaman are kind of melee healers and are expected to go melee from time to time. That would be almost a no go for me.
Looks like Druid will be the range healer i am looking for.
Ive heard of a smaller secondary role each class will have. Wouldnt it make sense that a cleric could play an off-tank, Shaman a bit of support and Druid a minor dps role? That would be great.
We already have dual tab targeting, a lifetap could easily be implemented. I keep my fingers crossed...
I'll be disappointed if Shaman needs to melee to do healing, I don't remember VR ever suggesting that they would. But ya never know...
Have you explored the 'Official Pantheon Wiki'? It is not kept very up to date - like much of this site - but it has more info about the classes than this site has. Even the outdated bits can help show the 'intent' VR has for the class.
https://pantheonriseofthefallen.fandom.com/wiki/Pantheon:_Rise_of_the_Fallen_Wiki
I have already read quite a bit about the classes but not very much in detail.
Thank you for the link. It was a good read.
Cleric seems to be the tanky melee healer with mitigation and shields.
This will be the most efficient way to heal. Proactive healing is always better than reactive healing.
He will be the best tank healer without a doubt, lacking a bit in group healing i guess.
Shaman relies on healing over time, some direct heals and alot of buffing, debuffing.
That makes him quite useful and stacking hots is kind of proactive healing as well. It is just not as good against big hits on the tank.
Druid is probably the worst when it comes to tank healing. Only direct heals will make it hard to counter heavy damage on the tank. On the other hand, Druid seems to be the best group healer as long as the group isnt constantly moving around or just ignoring the healing area. He has a few damaging spells, which is fine.
From a tank healing perspective (which is most important) Druid seems to be the hardest to play because of pure reactive healing.
Another think is aggro. Shields and mitigation usually dont generate aggro. Hots generate aggro slowly over time.
Druids probably generate the most aggro with all the direct healing. That will make it even more challenging.
Druids need a way to remove aggro or they will be constantly in trouble.
All in all only Clerics seem to be melee oriented, which is ok. Being such a good healer he needs to have some drawbacks. ;)
So far nothing comes close to a Bloodmage which i expected. On the other hand we might see plenty of changes til release.
Farrinard said:Considering the game only has three healers on the menu, a life-tap themed healer could just be what the voodoo doctor ordered. I wouldn't mind Shaman being melee either. Just imagine, healing your party through the power of punches. The mist is just an after effect.
The Disciple in Vanguard was exactly that, a healer who healed others with kicks and punches, like a monk.
When it comes to classes, Vanguard was the best game, hands down.
I've always enjoyed the more agressive healer archi-types. That's why I enjoyed playing a Ronso Sage in Final Fantasy XIV. Every attack and heal they perform is very aggressive looking. And their aoe hot/damage reduction skill litterally has them punching the ground. Absolutely fantastic.